Used (err, Pre-Owned?) Cars

[jschmeling]

What's the oldest model year you'd normally buy? E.g., same year, one year, two, etc., not looking for I'd by a 1966 Corvette, because of course I would.

How many miles on a used car are OK for you?

My last two used cars were one and two years old, and both had about 7,000 miles, which were fine for me.

But now I'm thinking three to five year old cars might be OK, with as many as 30,000 miles, because I'm somewhat interested in higher cost performance cars that I don't care to pay full price on. But, I'm hesitant to buy several years old, or with a lot of miles, and a bit fearful of the maintenance costs if I went this way. So, I'm curious - what would you do for used cars?

Discuss!

 

[Dan Homerick]

I'm done buying ICE cars, so that warps my thinking a fair bit.

You just can't go back that many years and find used EVs that still have acceptable range -- battery sizes have improved a lot, and the degradation on early model years was worse. The smaller batteries on older EVs got cycled more deeply, cycled more frequently, didn't have as good of thermal management ... all sorts of reasons, really. It's like buying a five year old graphics card. Sure you can do it, but unless you have a very low bar, the combination of age and obsolescence makes it unattractive (to me, at least).

So, wouldn't look more than three years old, and 36,000 miles. That said, maybe for a Model X or something, might look at old as 5 years / 60K miles.

Back when I would buy ICE cars, I had no particular qualms about buying 10 year old cars or older, with the expectation that I'd learn how to fix anything that might break.

 

[CoddLeeves]

I've just recently bought used/pre-owned/pre-loved/whatever as my second car (I have a company car as my main). I ended up with a 3 year old, 45,000 mile Mini Cooper S which I bought from a main dealer, so a 12 month warranty is standard. The Mini only does 6-8k miles a year maximum and I intend to keep it for at least 5 years. From my perspective, I like to think what the age/condition/mileage would be at the time I would stop using it, rather than when I buy it.

YMMV, pun intended.

 

[heySkippy]

I'm a big fan of buying CPO cars coming off a 3 year lease. Done that a couple times now with great luck.

 

[Jeff J]

I figure I'm going to keep a car until it is 15 years old and has 200k miles on it, and I look for the cheapest price per remaining mile. If I don't think a car will last me that long, I don't need to buy it. The last two cars I bought have both been three years old with 30k miles on them.

 

[Diabolical]

I'm a big fan of buying CPO cars coming off a 3 year lease. Done that a couple times now with great luck.

This. My 535i was one of these. Got a great deal on a 3yo car that had under 14k miles on it. Decent warranty on it to boot.

Right now, though? The automotive market is… pretty bad.

 

[Danger Mouse]

Depends. Certain brands, forget it without a bumper to bumper warranty.

Other brands, depends on how much complexity therefore maintenance cost is baked in.

I would have no problem going with certain brands on a non turbo 4 cylinder automatic at 100k miles. Warranty or bring my own head gasket test kit plus have it checked by a trusted mechanic and of course the CARFAX record check.

Even then you have to expect there are a number of maintenance items you have to take care of with a high mileage car that you don’t normally deal with on a low mileage car and budget accordingly or wrench it yourself.

Newer cars with lots of electronics are a huge headache due to cost and complexity.

 

[sword_9mm]

My car now was bought at the end of 2019 when rental fleets I guess were turned over to the new model. I normally would be weary of it but it was still under full warranty and all that so I found one that was in really good condition (as well as looked at some that were in pretty bad shape for 1 year old cars).

The mileage was a bit high as one would expect but I'm actually under average mileage now so it was no biggie since I don't drive a substantial amount. Car works perfectly.

Now it's worth about 2k more than I paid at the end of 2019.. The market is nuts.

 

[molo]

What's the oldest model year you'd normally buy? E.g., same year, one year, two, etc., not looking for I'd by a 1966 Corvette, because of course I would.

How many miles on a used car are OK for you?

My last two used cars were one and two years old, and both had about 7,000 miles, which were fine for me.

But now I'm thinking three to five year old cars might be OK, with as many as 30,000 miles, because I'm somewhat interested in higher cost performance cars that I don't care to pay full price on. But, I'm hesitant to buy several years old, or with a lot of miles, and a bit fearful of the maintenance costs if I went this way. So, I'm curious - what would you do for used cars?

Discuss!

A 5-year-old car is fine, if it was decently maintained. Modern cars are way more durable than older cars. 100,000 miles isn't that big of a deal on a modern car.

3 years old? That's practically new, in my book.

Maintenance on either will be minimal. Standard stuff - tires, brake pads (maybe), stuff like that.

 

[Semi On]

I'm a big fan of buying CPO cars coming off a 3 year lease. Done that a couple times now with great luck.

This tends to be my MO if I'm buying a used car too. It usually means the car was well maintained, by the dealer and that there was nothing in the history that made the dealer want to avoid extending the warranty.

 

[Leaping Gnome]

4 years old / 40k miles are my fuzzy limits when shopping. I hope to find something that still has a bit of the original warranty left just in case there are problems that I didn't find on a 15 minute test drive.

Like others have said, we also shop the lease returns, or for something even newer service loaner vehicles can be good deals.

 

[Thorvard]

I'm a big fan of buying CPO cars coming off a 3 year lease. Done that a couple times now with great luck.

That's what my wife does. She got her Maserati whatever that was just turned in from a lease and apparently it was like a 3rd car for the previous owner and had only 10k miles. She had been working with the dealer for a while so she was able to get a really good price on it. We got a great deal(brand new, but they were desperate to move it) on our van in 2015 but now that we're thinking maybe to move on she's been looking at CPO cars, around 3 years old and roughly 25-30k miles.

I know zip about cars other than the fact that they move when I press one pedal and stop when I do the other, so I generally leave all the shopping and deciding up to her.

 

[thekaj]

Really does depend. I've typically purchased cars that likely were coming off their lease, so they were just a few years old, with lowerish miles. But since I started busing/carpooling to work, we decided my current vehicle should be a truck to be able to use for both home improvement projects and transporting stuff to and from our boat. Since that meant something that's pretty much just a weekend vehicle, we went with a truck that's now 10 years old, and has over 140k miles on it. My wife has suggested we get something newer, but considering that I throw a bunch of junk in it to take it to the dump, the fact that it's got those years and miles on it means I don't feel the need to baby it.

 

[wabear]

I tend to settle in about 4-5 years. Bought an 01 in 05, a 04 in 09 and a 15 in 20. All were less than 50,000 miles when purchased.

 

[bluloo]

I wasn't sure what I generally do, but checking some records it seems like 3-5 years old seems like the range I typically buy in. As for mileage, the lower the mileage, the more likely I am to buy a given vehicle, but I generally prefer a range of no more than 50-60K when shopping around (depends on other variables like maintenance records, condition, etc), as I've gotten burned on higher mileage private purchases in the days of yore.

My 09 Jetta had about 25K on it when purchased used, from a dealer in '14, for example.

 

[Doomlord_uk]

As long as my next car is under 100,000 miles and 10 years or less, and costs less than £2500, I'm happy. I have a specific model in mind. Ongoing servicing/maintainance is unavoidable in this price range.

Given the shocking cost of fuel now, I'd love an EV, or at least a hybrid. Unfortunately, I can't afford one, due to shocking cost of those...

 

[Mojo-jojo]

I could go down my whole list, but the 15 year old 1995 M3 with 250k on it will tell you that it's about the car, not the year or mileage for me lol. I think I average around 10 years old with 100k miles or so. I've only ever bought one car new, that's the outlier by a lot.

 

[Tom Foolery]

I'm a big fan of buying CPO cars coming off a 3 year lease. Done that a couple times now with great luck.

This tends to be my MO if I'm buying a used car too. It usually means the car was well maintained, by the dealer and that there was nothing in the history that made the dealer want to avoid extending the warranty.

Same here, last two cars. 7k miles or less on the odometer, less than a year old.

 

[Paladin]

I've personally owned 3 used cars and 1 new car. The new car has been a joy to own and drive while the others have been mostly just transportation. That is just how it worked out, the new car was not all that much better than the others (similar class and size to the one I had previously) but being newer it has better performance, better features and better mileage and reliability.

Ultimately it comes down to cost (not price). The new car had a price that was higher than a used car of similar features, quality, size, etc. but I got 0% financing on the new car, 10 year powertrain warranty and 5 year bumper to bumper, known good starting point and a relationship with the manufacturer (getting recall notices etc.) and the cost of a used car in a similar level of quality and features would have been really not that much less and I would lose a lot of those side benefits.

Recently I keep hearing that used car prices are inflated, new car prices should be pretty good as we reach the end of the year (that's when I bought my current car, Dec 30) though you do have to watch out for those cars that are suffering from the shortage of computer chips and might be short features due to it. The specifics of which is a better option is going to depend on the kind of car you want. Personally, I like and am very happy with the small economy car option and that makes it both easy and hard to find a good choice: they don't make that many of them anymore because CUVs are more popular, which means there is not a lot to choose from but it also means it is easier to choose because there are not so many to think over and the ones that are making it on the market these days are pretty good. The small truck segment is getting flooded right now and as someone not interested in CUVs, the small SUV market is basically...

There is a mental/emotional cost on pre-owned/used cars too. If you look for ones that come with warranty or CPO type dealer connected service contracts or something, you might feel happy and secure that your 'new' car will work well and have someone to help out if things go bad in the near future. Of course, if you prefer to work on your car yourself that is not as much of a concern but not everyone likes that. For a lot of people that will be a benefit to have a kind of warranty or something though.

Basically, to me, a used car needs to have enough of a savings in the price and purchase arrangements that it can offset the quantifiable benefits of a new car (putting aside the undefined value of 'newness'). If the market is as bad as it was a little while ago, I would say that used is not attractive enough in the general sense as it was in the past.

 

[rain shadow]

Minority report. Wife and I buy brand new cars and keep them for 8 to 10 years. We get kind of screwed on price up front, but we get a reliable car for most of a decade, comes with a warranty, no car payments for half the time, and pretty low maintenance/repair costs.

We have at times ordered a car with specific color and options so we got exactly what we wanted without having to take a car loaded with options from inventory. If we know we're going to need a new car soon we will keep an eye out for 0% financing deals or a sale on the specific make or model we're looking for.

I always took a counterexample from some of our friends and coworkers who either leased new or drove older cars. When the lease was up they had nothing and had to get back on the treadmill immediately. Others bought used cars and just ended up buying someone else's problems and spending more than they initially paid for the car on repairs. The people who bought new never seemed to be complaining. They just had a reliable car that didn't cost that much more than a used car when considered over the long haul.

 

[Paladin]

Yeah, that is basically my recent experience (my current car is now just about 11 years old and I bought it new). I think the situation has changed from 15 years ago or more when a new car *might* last you 10 years if you're lucky or do a lot of maintenance yourself. Now days, you can generally buy almost any decent car, treat it well enough and it will have 15 years of decent life in it, other then some basic upkeep costs and maybe a timing belt/chain and water pump and stuff after 8-10 years, sparkplugs etc. BEVs will make that possibly longer if batteries are easy to replace or maintain. New becomes more valuable in that way, if you keep it long enough because the depreciation only matters if you sell it too soon.

On the other hand, a used car of recent make *should* inherit similar longevity, but you never know if the car is being sold because it has issues or has been treated poorly or had some undisclosed damage.

 

[rain shadow]

I think the situation has changed from 15 years ago or more when a new car *might* last you 10 years if you're lucky or do a lot of maintenance yourself. Now days, you can generally buy almost any decent car, treat it well enough and it will have 15 years of decent life in it

Piling on, I'm expecting an extra year of life out of our current fleet because we basically didn't drive anywhere for a year because of the covid lockdown.

 

[DeedlitCryogenic]

What's the oldest model year you'd normally buy? E.g., same year, one year, two, etc., not looking for I'd by a 1966 Corvette, because of course I would.

How many miles on a used car are OK for you?

My last two used cars were one and two years old, and both had about 7,000 miles, which were fine for me.

But now I'm thinking three to five year old cars might be OK, with as many as 30,000 miles, because I'm somewhat interested in higher cost performance cars that I don't care to pay full price on. But, I'm hesitant to buy several years old, or with a lot of miles, and a bit fearful of the maintenance costs if I went this way. So, I'm curious - what would you do for used cars?

Discuss!

I'm part of the Gambler 500, so I buy used cars that are far past what most would consider "normal." For example, I have a 1998 Subaru Forester. The first model year forester. That I have lifted aboot 2" with slightly larger tires on it. Put in a nice android stereo with appleplay connected to a REALLY good backup camera that is mounted to the roof rack. It is my gambler/rally car/rockhound rig/astronomy hauler. Bought it at 200k miles.

For gamblers I tend to look for OBD2 compatibility. Things are much easier when I can read system faults. . . and makes registering them easier. Most cars were OBD2 by 1996, so that is the earliest I'd look at without checking for OBD2 compliance.

For a better answer: check the history of the model year of the car you are interested in. Some years have more issues than others. (Like the 2010 Prius being less reliable than its rock-solid brethren)

 

[Danger Mouse]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIJm7ZKMpNY

96 Lexus LS400 with 230k miles on it. They really don't make them like that anymore.

My 97 Toyota RAV4 made it to 240k miles, and sold it to Carmax in 2007 or 2008 but it would have been fine to keep it if not for safety concerns about such an old car on the road.

Still miss it.

 

[rain shadow]

Million Mile Lexus

 

[jschmeling]

Very useful. I haven't bought CPO, but I have bought used several times and been good with them, but only two used in the past 10 years. In the last 10 years we've bought and leased new - bought two new Acura MDXs, traded the Camaro for one, traded one for the Infiniti Q60, leased two new Mercedes, replaced the first with the second, and bought two new Honda Accords and leased one new Honda Pilot, sold the Infiniti for it, and which we will buy at the lease end in a year with maybe 40,000 miles on it for $26,000. It's currently showing something like $40,000 to buy the same 2020 Pilot Touring, and it was only $42,000 new. I've turned in one lease - GLC300 - that I didn't like much except the amazing headlights. The Accords are all in the family still, one 12 years old with my son, so I suppose I shouldn't worry too much about it. (I was a poor, broke guy before these and drove a Citation II, a Dodge Aspen, and a Bronco II, and a Chevy Lumina into the ground before these, so I know I went through cars too fast.)

My bigger concern, I think, when I'm looking at it now is what are the regular maintenance costs for a more expensive brand, Mercedes E53 or GLE53 or something, or BMW mild performance cars (not the M3, M5, but the M550i or the X5 5 liter), because I've only had each Mercedes for three years and less than 36,000 miles. I'm not buying something with ceramic brakes or other intentionally expensive features like that.

And I'm still looking at used Caymans or even the right 911. But maintenance on those scares me more because I don't know a thing about them other than everyone says "expensive!"

 

[rain shadow]

And I'm still looking at used Caymans or even the right 911. But maintenance on those scares me more because I don't know a thing about them other than everyone says "expensive!"

I think the guidance for that is (a) go with the post-IMS bearing era (2010 and up) and (b) get any prospective purchase inspected by a qualified porsche mechanic. They should be able to tell you how hard the car was driven and give you a list of specific repairs that need to be done to make it reliable.

I personally would also (c) get a model that does not have any turbocharger installed, noting that several newer models have turbochargers even though they are not designated as "Turbo" in any way.

 

[TigerAway]

What's the oldest model year you'd normally buy? E.g., same year, one year, two, etc., not looking for I'd by a 1966 Corvette, because of course I would.

How many miles on a used car are OK for you?

My last two used cars were one and two years old, and both had about 7,000 miles, which were fine for me.

But now I'm thinking three to five year old cars might be OK, with as many as 30,000 miles, because I'm somewhat interested in higher cost performance cars that I don't care to pay full price on. But, I'm hesitant to buy several years old, or with a lot of miles, and a bit fearful of the maintenance costs if I went this way. So, I'm curious - what would you do for used cars?

Discuss!

Alternatively, buy a used Toyota or Honda for $10k and retire 5-10 years earlier.

 

[Made in Hurry]

The average age over here is 11+ years. I have a milage-scare and just yesterday traded in my Skoda Octavia 2016 with 157.000 km on it, but it was starting to come apart. Traded it in for an Opel/Vauxhall Astra 2017 with 58.000 km on it.
I'll never buy a new car again though, it's really not worth it when the supply of nicely used cars seems to be infinite.

 

[Exordium01]

What's the oldest model year you'd normally buy? E.g., same year, one year, two, etc., not looking for I'd by a 1966 Corvette, because of course I would.

How many miles on a used car are OK for you?

My last two used cars were one and two years old, and both had about 7,000 miles, which were fine for me.

But now I'm thinking three to five year old cars might be OK, with as many as 30,000 miles, because I'm somewhat interested in higher cost performance cars that I don't care to pay full price on. But, I'm hesitant to buy several years old, or with a lot of miles, and a bit fearful of the maintenance costs if I went this way. So, I'm curious - what would you do for used cars?

Discuss!

Alternatively, buy a used Toyota or Honda for $10k and retire 5-10 years earlier.

Not if you live in upstate NY. A rusted out frame does t care how many miles are on the engine/ drivetrain.

 

[Xenocrates]

What's the oldest model year you'd normally buy? E.g., same year, one year, two, etc., not looking for I'd by a 1966 Corvette, because of course I would.

How many miles on a used car are OK for you?

My last two used cars were one and two years old, and both had about 7,000 miles, which were fine for me.

But now I'm thinking three to five year old cars might be OK, with as many as 30,000 miles, because I'm somewhat interested in higher cost performance cars that I don't care to pay full price on. But, I'm hesitant to buy several years old, or with a lot of miles, and a bit fearful of the maintenance costs if I went this way. So, I'm curious - what would you do for used cars?

Discuss!

Alternatively, buy a used Toyota or Honda for $10k and retire 5-10 years earlier.

Not if you live in upstate NY. A rusted out frame does t care how many miles are on the engine/ drivetrain.

Try Wisconsin and Michigan. NY has a lower age because they have inspections, not because the salt is worse. WI has emissions testing at least. MI doesn't have anything, and it shows. I had a relatively low mileage to age car (bought at 30K miles, 12 years old, proverbial little old lady, except it was to temple on Saturday), where the brake lines rusted through in the rear. Not fun driving that home and then to the mechanic the next morning. Stuff like that can easily mechanically total out a car up here, because the rust also raises the labor hours required to fix it.
So buy a southern, but preferably not south coast car if practical for a used car.

 

[TigerAway]

What's the oldest model year you'd normally buy? E.g., same year, one year, two, etc., not looking for I'd by a 1966 Corvette, because of course I would.

How many miles on a used car are OK for you?

My last two used cars were one and two years old, and both had about 7,000 miles, which were fine for me.

But now I'm thinking three to five year old cars might be OK, with as many as 30,000 miles, because I'm somewhat interested in higher cost performance cars that I don't care to pay full price on. But, I'm hesitant to buy several years old, or with a lot of miles, and a bit fearful of the maintenance costs if I went this way. So, I'm curious - what would you do for used cars?

Discuss!

Alternatively, buy a used Toyota or Honda for $10k and retire 5-10 years earlier.

Not if you live in upstate NY. A rusted out frame does t care how many miles are on the engine/ drivetrain.

Yes if you live in upstate NY.

Toyotas don’t rust.

 

[TigerAway]

What's the oldest model year you'd normally buy? E.g., same year, one year, two, etc., not looking for I'd by a 1966 Corvette, because of course I would.

How many miles on a used car are OK for you?

My last two used cars were one and two years old, and both had about 7,000 miles, which were fine for me.

But now I'm thinking three to five year old cars might be OK, with as many as 30,000 miles, because I'm somewhat interested in higher cost performance cars that I don't care to pay full price on. But, I'm hesitant to buy several years old, or with a lot of miles, and a bit fearful of the maintenance costs if I went this way. So, I'm curious - what would you do for used cars?

Discuss!

Alternatively, buy a used Toyota or Honda for $10k and retire 5-10 years earlier.

Not if you live in upstate NY. A rusted out frame does t care how many miles are on the engine/ drivetrain.

Try Wisconsin and Michigan. NY has a lower age because they have inspections, not because the salt is worse. WI has emissions testing at least. MI doesn't have anything, and it shows. I had a relatively low mileage to age car (bought at 30K miles, 12 years old, proverbial little old lady, except it was to temple on Saturday), where the brake lines rusted through in the rear. Not fun driving that home and then to the mechanic the next morning. Stuff like that can easily mechanically total out a car up here, because the rust also raises the labor hours required to fix it.
So buy a southern, but preferably not south coast car if practical for a used car.

My 20-year-old Camry would beg to differ. When I sold it, the guy who bought it was amazed that it had barely any rust despite being from the NE.

 

[Danger Mouse]

What's the oldest model year you'd normally buy? E.g., same year, one year, two, etc., not looking for I'd by a 1966 Corvette, because of course I would.

How many miles on a used car are OK for you?

My last two used cars were one and two years old, and both had about 7,000 miles, which were fine for me.

But now I'm thinking three to five year old cars might be OK, with as many as 30,000 miles, because I'm somewhat interested in higher cost performance cars that I don't care to pay full price on. But, I'm hesitant to buy several years old, or with a lot of miles, and a bit fearful of the maintenance costs if I went this way. So, I'm curious - what would you do for used cars?

Discuss!

Alternatively, buy a used Toyota or Honda for $10k and retire 5-10 years earlier.

Not if you live in upstate NY. A rusted out frame does t care how many miles are on the engine/ drivetrain.

Try Wisconsin and Michigan. NY has a lower age because they have inspections, not because the salt is worse. WI has emissions testing at least. MI doesn't have anything, and it shows. I had a relatively low mileage to age car (bought at 30K miles, 12 years old, proverbial little old lady, except it was to temple on Saturday), where the brake lines rusted through in the rear. Not fun driving that home and then to the mechanic the next morning. Stuff like that can easily mechanically total out a car up here, because the rust also raises the labor hours required to fix it.
So buy a southern, but preferably not south coast car if practical for a used car.

SoCal,

more worried about it being a murder car or something else weird or a salvaged flood car from back east, etc.

 

[fragile]

We currently have a 2010 Citroen C3 Picasso

It was £3.5K a few years ago with 40k miles on the clock.

Single owner, stack of receipts and all of the options of the day.

Being a turbo dismal it uses very little fuel. 60mpg UK is normal. If you try really hard you can get it down to the late 40s.

It’s cost us three services at about £100ea and a single £75 repair for a leaking clutch slave.

Insurance is £30 / month
Road duty is £23 / month

Current value is about £3.5k.

So it’s been incredibly cheap motoring at about £100 / month.

Old car economics can be amazing if you buy well and look after them properly.

There is no way I’d get a huge ass loan for a car nowadays.

 

[jschmeling]

Alternatively, buy a used Toyota or Honda for $10k and retire 5-10 years earlier.

Probably the best advice in this thread that my wife regularly shares with me, too.

 

[sryan2k1]

Unless it's someone I know personally, New or CPO vehicles only.

 

[fragile]

Alternatively, buy a used Toyota or Honda for $10k and retire 5-10 years earlier.

Probably the best advice in this thread that my wife regularly shares with me, too.

One of my neighbours has a 2020 Audi RS6 Avante. He leases it for 'just' £1100 / month.

Services are £1500 every 6k miles and the fuel usage is pretty insane.

It is mostly parked outside his house. as he has a lease-limited 6000 miles / year, the tyres are good for 10-15k at £1400 / set, his insurance is £2500 / year and the VED is £585/year

- £2.20 / mile in lease costs
- £0.25 / mile in servicing
- £0.13 / mile in fuel
- £0.23 / mile in tyres !
- £0.12 / mile in VED

or around £2.88 / mile

Every single mile.

He spends more time polishing it than he does driving it.

 

[sryan2k1]

Ever driven a RS6? Worth every penny

 

[Danger Mouse]

I forgot to mention that my current car is technically a CPO but the car title never changed to the first owner.

When I bought it, it had 1100 miles on it, but the owner had it for less than 100 miles before the car was returned due to failed credit.

So the practice of that dealership is to use such cars as loaners which meant by the time I bought it, there was 1100 miles on it.

2 days after owning it, mysterious stains showed up on the headliner. The dealership agreed to clean it. The floor manager and I joked about them selling me a murder car. It was either pot or something worse than stained the headliner.

When I got the car, the price was chopped by $1500 or so from new Costco pricing and I got a good deal on the finance with just $1k down plus my broken down trade in. I made sure to get the 100k bumper to bumper factory extended warranty.

AWD plus electronics and a CVT meant I did the opposite of my normal practice of owning older reliable cars and driving them into the ground, so I wanted to have good warranty protection.

When the engine blew up in the 6th month of ownership, it turned out later to have been due to a manufacturing problem. They gave me a different returned vehicle for use as a loaner.