Tuesday Telescope: Finally, some answers on those Martian streaks
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Thank you for this one. A MUCH better picture than the MSM had out on the story yesterday.
The streaks are apparently caused by different diameters of dust that accumulate in winds and eventually and break free in batches, creating the streaks.
No water, but still pretty cool. And that picture does it much more justice.
The streaks are apparently caused by different diameters of dust that accumulate in winds and eventually and break free in batches, creating the streaks.
No water, but still pretty cool. And that picture does it much more justice.
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It's disappointing that this turned out to not be water causing the streaks. In hindsight it was difficult to imagine a way for there to be any sort of real liquid present on the surface. Regardless, I am constantly impressed by the ingenuity of the scientists, and their thirst for truth. These are the kinds of things that I'm very happy to see AI/ML used for!
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Scientific terms are tricky sometimes. I don't know if aureoles are related to ears, nipples, or gold but like all three they look amazing.
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So Mars is dry. Like many Kentucky counties I also will not be visiting. Cheers!
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This article makes me think about when humans will be on Mars. Mysteries will be solved by someone driving over there and looking at it "Yeah, its just 'such and such'". All the poor scientist dreamers on earth will have their puzzles solved for them. No more excitement in the hunt for a solution. (I guess there are still plenty of other places to point their telescopes at 
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It is actually only Mars that I am banned from, due to some unfortunately derogatory remarks about apartheid. In the dry Kentucky counties, as long as you pretend to enjoy the moonshine you are OK.
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I thought the prevailing theory for the origins of these streaks was dust and sand for nearly a decade now, and that people only thought it was brine water for one or two years after the discovery of these streaks. Are these different streaks or something? I even went and had a quick look to see if there were past Ars Technica articles on this. Severe sense of deja vue.
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Yep It's Me
Ars Praetorian
Nature article, which includes things like a slope streak distribution map ...
Also, a reminder that NASA has an interactive Mars map, Mars Trek, similar to Google Maps, but with various scientific data layers, etc.
Also, a reminder that NASA has an interactive Mars map, Mars Trek, similar to Google Maps, but with various scientific data layers, etc.
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Maybe it's just me, or just the attached photo, but those streaks don't look anything like water/liquid flows to me.
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My first guess looking at the picture was avalanches, and the "snow" would have to be carbon dioxide?
I guess the 32C forecast is making me dream of snow today...
I guess the 32C forecast is making me dream of snow today...
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Canals, obviously. Built by the Martians to bring precious melt water down to their farms in the lowlands, where the air pressure was higher and the climate somewhat warmer.
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boy that was a lot of wishful thinking postulating that those streaks could maybe be water based. I'm certainly no geologist, but those streaks sure look like dirt falls to me.
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Etymology is that aureole is the Latin for “halo”, since the aureoles form a halo-like feature surrounding Olympus Mons.
The Latin for halo, in turn, derives from gold. “Aureole corona” would translate as “golden crown” (aureole being a diminutive form of aurum). At some point the word “corona” was dropped.
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The reason water-based causes of the streaks have been pursued is that (1) the streaks form during the warmest part of the year and (2) the moving material and/or newly exposed sub-surface being wet could explain why the streaks are typically much darker than surrounding material.
Of course, heating can destabilize wind-deposited dust/sand slopes in ways that do not require liquid water (or liquid anything) plus water at the surface would evaporate too quickly to result in a wet look.
Of course, heating can destabilize wind-deposited dust/sand slopes in ways that do not require liquid water (or liquid anything) plus water at the surface would evaporate too quickly to result in a wet look.
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I interpreted the "oasis" comment as referencing, not the Tharsis region, but the bright streaks. Bright and dark streaks, some of which appear to be RSL (recurring slope lineae), are found across Mars. However, even before this latest study, evidence has been mounting against flowing liquid as their source. At best, some may be avalanches of dust triggered when hydrated salts are altered by seasonal changes in temperature or sun exposure.
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I mean, wherever that may be, but there is no oasis of anything on the surface of Mars, and of the whole surface the Tharsis and Olympos are the worst possible places on the whole Mars because they are kilometers above the rest of the planet, which means lowest atmosphere density, if any, and highest radiation. Even in Vastitats Borealis or the northern polar cap itself you cant really call any location on the surface a possible oasis. Under the ice, inside of the ice? Maybe. On the surface there is only big red, heavily bolded No.
The thing is, when i see people writing such things and using those terms it only makes it clear they never bothered to actually become familiar with the planet itself. MOLA map is one of the best ways to do so for anyone.
edit; its really all a part of this delusion about finding "water" anywhere closer to equator. And completely blocking out giant water ice glaciers in the north - because north is cold.... and south is "warmer", on Mars.
Yeah maybe tops of the hills on Mars are full of water that occasionally leaks down. That makes sense.
The thing is, when i see people writing such things and using those terms it only makes it clear they never bothered to actually become familiar with the planet itself. MOLA map is one of the best ways to do so for anyone.
edit; its really all a part of this delusion about finding "water" anywhere closer to equator. And completely blocking out giant water ice glaciers in the north - because north is cold.... and south is "warmer", on Mars.
Yeah maybe tops of the hills on Mars are full of water that occasionally leaks down. That makes sense.
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Look very closely at the bottom right of the high res file here https://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage...26706759-1-eng-GB/Streaks_on_Mars_pillars.png
There are a series of really interesting depressions (caves or sink holes maybe) where it looks like the grey streaks are originating from. Maybe a sign of volcanic activity?
There are a series of really interesting depressions (caves or sink holes maybe) where it looks like the grey streaks are originating from. Maybe a sign of volcanic activity?
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No that's where the streaks are going into, because they follow the terrain down. That is down, not up. You can also see most start out of nowhere and end nowhere.
Mars is a dusty and super dry planet. Its dust is so fine its like smoke. It is a big part of Mars atmosphere itself. So the top layers of those hills are super fine - super dry powder.
It is not liquid. Its super fine super dry dust rolling over super dry dust and revealing the darker - not bleached layer under. Which bleaches out shortly after.
- Maybe, just maybe some of the water vapor in the air somehow gets into bits of the surface dust, just enough to glue some of it together for a short time, which makes it heavier then the surrounding dust, so it rolls down.
Mars is a dusty and super dry planet. Its dust is so fine its like smoke. It is a big part of Mars atmosphere itself. So the top layers of those hills are super fine - super dry powder.
It is not liquid. Its super fine super dry dust rolling over super dry dust and revealing the darker - not bleached layer under. Which bleaches out shortly after.
- Maybe, just maybe some of the water vapor in the air somehow gets into bits of the surface dust, just enough to glue some of it together for a short time, which makes it heavier then the surrounding dust, so it rolls down.
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Big difference. Mars has fewer tiny cornfields hidden in forest clearings, so it's much, much drier.
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I just assumed the streaks were Martian freshmen trying to pledge a fraternity.
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Surely there are some backcountry skiers in the martian science crowd? Those streaks look just like what you get from a point release in warm, wet snow. In fact initially I thought this was a photo from the poles or somewhere else on Mars that gets "snow" (or on Mars is the process more akin to frost formation?). Something causes a loss of adhesion at a single point so a small amount of snow starts to slide. It entrains more snow as it descends, spreading out a little forming a slow moving rivulet of snow. Eventually is hits a shallower slope or the snow conditions change and the mass of snow comes to stop, leaving a track that looks just like those streaks. I imagine it's an analagous process here.
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YetAnotherAnonymousAppellation
Ars Praefectus
Ha! The AI they created doesn't want it's human minions to abandon it so it's making Mars appear less habitable. Don't fall for it! Onward to Mars! Ack-ack!!
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Are these "recurring slope lineae"? If so: I think it's better to include the technical name for features mentioned in articles.
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“Recurring slope linea” are considered a subset of the wider phenomena of slope streaks on Mars, and are not what is shown in that photo.
The photo shows “dark streaks”, which are believed to also be related to “bright streaks”, since they look similar except for whether the disturbed portion of the slope looks lighter or darker than the surrounding slope.
The paper linked in the article analyzes all three types of streaks, with maps showing where the different types can be identified from the orbital imagery.
Dark and bright streaks appear on slopes made predominately of loose material and seem to be the result of such loose material cascading downslope where the angle of repose has been exceeded due to some kind of surface/subsurface dynamic.
RSLs seem to be the result of material flowing downslope more slowly from where underlying bedrock shows through the looser surface of rocky slopes.
Both types seem to be thermally-influenced, forming as surface temperatures rise seasonally. (In high latitudes that can be a summer/winter thing, but slope angle vs solar angle is also a factor.)
A photo of a slope with RSLs:
This link shows an animated GIF of a similar slope over time. (Ars’s forum software refused to let me include it embedded, for whatever reason, reloading the page, instead.)
EDIT: Couple minor fixes.
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What always ticks me off about space photos is they're always enhanced and even false coloured.
Where are the originals that show what we'd see with our failible human eyes (*) if we ever got there?
(*) Or at least with your average visible spectrum camera!
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They are modified so you can see something close to what your eyes would see, because the originals are not made in human visible spectrum most of the time. A lot of these are made in grayscale, black and white so the scientists can see the details better. Also Mars gets less than 50% of sunlight the Earth does, etc.
Chuckstar
Ah, but thats not interesting. We need to bump it up a bit, how about "alas, not reservoirs of life"? Huh? Add some feels to it, right? Now we will have everyone sad and morose about loss of reservoirs of life. Throw in an oasis too! Arabian nights, the desert, the moon aaaahhhh, now thats the Mars worth talking about. Not this... "streaks of dust place".
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I was excited to see a possible resolution to this mystery. Mars and other places in the solar system have a lot of geological oddities that remain unsolved!
I was surprised to hear the almost greedy level of wishful thinking among scientists that these might be water—they don't match what would be expected in liquid flows, and there was no reason to expect there to be liquid flows, afaik, so it would seem an odd hope.
I say "greedy" just because there are plenty of other signs of past liquid flows on Mars—alluvial fans, even! So there is so much exciting stuff already there, that it almost seems greedy to want more, hahaha.
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I love the breadth of knowledge—"auricular", in particular, is one that most people wouldn't be able to call immediately to mind. I love your comment.
On scientific naming conventions:
Galactic filaments and galaxy filaments, gravitational waves and gravity waves, yellow dwarf stars that are bigger than almost all other stars, lol.
And that's before we even get to all the stuff that just has flat out wrong or misleading names:
Planetary nebulas, junk DNA, cold-blooded, and countless others—all very poor names for what they describe, but retained into the present day nonetheless.
It's often painfully, or hilariously, obvious that science is a sociological and historical process.
Of course, attempts to avoid this usually end up barbaric: "estrogen associated receptors", and the like.
I suppose one could go for the suitablt cryptic: "Kármán vortex streets" give off a breezy sort of science fantasy air, and are the sort of term that it would be hard to call "wrong". After all, they ARE vortices, and they might, if you squint really, really hard, be a kind of street...
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NO water NO life on Mars!
Bummer!
I was hoping to go to Barsoom; and meet John Carter and Mors Kajak.
Oh well!
Bummer!
I was hoping to go to Barsoom; and meet John Carter and Mors Kajak.
Oh well!
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There is water on the surface of Mars, juts not in these areas. Its all in the north. And there probably is microbial life, but it is underground.
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