Trump’s MAHA pick for surgeon general flounders amid GOP doubts

GFKBill

Ars Praefectus
3,013
Subscriptor
She talks about this extensively in her book. To oversimplify, she argued that the specialities in the medical field are too siloed in their focus, preventing them from seeing systematic or holistic problems affecting the body on a larger scale. She makes the case that the incentives in the health system perpetuate this problem.
And the kind of BS she's gone on to peddle is somehow better? Puh-lease.
 
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johnbramhall

Smack-Fu Master, in training
60
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Stanford is perhaps the best university in the country. Why would someone graduate from medical school there and then do nothing with it? Did she barely scrape by and knew she'd never get through residency?
Well, it’s certainly an expensive place to study medicine, leaves most graduates heavily in debt. Dr Means has done OK as a non-practicing doctor. Here, and I quote:

Dr. Casey Means has a significant net worth, largely attributed to her role as co-founder of the health technology company Levels, which was valued at $300 million as of 2024, and her work as a wellness influencer and author. Additionally, she has earned substantial income from partnerships with various health and wellness companies.
 
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Well, it’s certainly an expensive place to study medicine, leaves most graduates heavily in debt. Dr Means has done OK as a non-practicing doctor. Here, and I quote:

Dr. Casey Means has a significant net worth, largely attributed to her role as co-founder of the health technology company Levels, which was valued at $300 million as of 2024, and her work as a wellness influencer and author. Additionally, she has earned substantial income from partnerships with various health and wellness companies.
the thing is you need the degree for people to believe your positions, even if you disagree with everything you learn in school.

I know a pharmacist who truly didn't believe that blood was mostly made of water. That the urine that comes out of your body was largely originated from the blood that was filtered. I kept on thinking how did you survive school with these beliefs?

I know a mechanical engineer who went to medical school afterward at the push by his wife, not believing in medicine, and then graduating and pushing holistic naturopathic medicine instead. But he knew that people wouldn't listen to him unless he had the degree.
 
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graylshaped

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the thing is you need the degree for people to believe your positions, even if you disagree with everything you learn in school.

I know a pharmacist who truly didn't believe that blood was mostly made of water. That the urine that comes out of your body was largely originated from the blood that was filtered. I kept on thinking how did you survive school with these beliefs?

I know a mechanical engineer who went to medical school afterward at the push by his wife, not believing in medicine, and then graduating and pushing holistic naturopathic medicine instead. But he knew that people wouldn't listen to him unless he had the degree.
Tangled webs, practice of deceit, yada yada.

The time-tested remedy for this problem involved external application of warm pitch, followed with a blanket of feathers.
 
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Fatesrider

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She talks about this extensively in her book. To oversimplify, she argued that the specialities in the medical field are too siloed in their focus, preventing them from seeing systematic or holistic problems affecting the body on a larger scale. She makes the case that the incentives in the health system perpetuate this problem.
It's not about the health care system.

It's about insurance and liabilities.

The health care system has what's known as integrated health care. A GP, as your family doctor, coordinates your health care, sending you to whatever specialists could best deal with your issue, who then report back to the GP what they did. But because a GP doesn't make as much money as a specialist, the people who go into medicine for the money, and not the actual helping of people, are the problem. That's not an incentive perpetuated by the health care system. It's one perpetuated by the insurance companies, who decide what to pay specialists and GP's. GP's get shit. Specialists get a lot more.

There's also a crisis in the health care field WRT staffing. A huge share of it LEFT during the pandemic - changing jobs to other areas and moving out of direct in-patient care. A huge number of those were never replaced. Its expected in the next ten years to have only 62% of the staff available to full the needs of inpatients alone. That's also a factor of insurance, since almost all health care in the US is for-profit-based, as is the insurance. This results in lower wages, longer hours, harder work and faster burnout and a glut of specialists with a dearth of GP's.

That's not "the health care field's" fault. It's because people in health care, and everywhere else, follow the money, and the money doesn't incentivize promoting basic health care.

This moronic child hasn't practiced medicine in an integrated health care environment, and either self-treats or relies on youth and luck for her health care, so she has no fucking clue what it's really about. But like so many Dunning-Kruger sufferers, she believes she's smarter than everyone else and so makes up shit that people will buy into. What's truly fun to watch is how her Dunning-Kruger backs her into a corner, revealing just how fucking incompetent she really is.

I spent 20 years in the health care field in hospitals, providing direct patient care and support. I have friends and family who were in it, too. ALL OF THEM have left the jobs they liked - direct patient care - because they weren't paid enough to live on. And THAT is on the insurance companies, since they unilaterally decide who to pay and how much.

It's best when explaining someone else's views to better understand what they're saying in the first place in the context they use. She's an influencer. Her purpose isn't to help anyone. It's to find a way to be popular and cash in on that. The systemic issues with health care are entirely financial, with the best pay going to niche specialties and expensive equipment instead of to the people who make the system fucking work.

And that's ALL on the insurance companies and a for-profit mentality for those health care providers who seek profits in the first place.
 
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Cassidy, who is the chair of the Senate Health Committee and a strong advocate for vaccines

He's no such thing. Is he up for re-election this next midterm? That'd be his only strong advocacy he'd be doing.
He's up for re-election this fall and selling his soul (voting) for Bobby wasn't enough to keep Orange from finding Julia Letlow, U.S. Rep. for Louisiana’s 5th congressional district to primary him. Cassidy - Another Orange-grudge casualty.
 
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Well, it’s certainly an expensive place to study medicine, leaves most graduates heavily in debt. Dr Means has done OK as a non-practicing doctor. Here, and I quote:

Dr. Casey Means has a significant net worth, largely attributed to her role as co-founder of the health technology company Levels, which was valued at $300 million as of 2024, and her work as a wellness influencer and author. Additionally, she has earned substantial income from partnerships with various health and wellness companies.
As a non billionaire that puts her in the poor people section of the cabinet.

And instead of calling her an influencer she should be called what she actually is, a grifter.
 
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GrytPipe

Smack-Fu Master, in training
54
LMAO!! This is getting better by the minute. It baffles me every time i read about things like this, that the american people just abide these nonsense...
This kinda says it all: "writing about taking magic mushrooms, consulting a “spiritual medium,” and participating in “full moon ceremonies."
If one takes magic mushrooms, the chance of having a "full moon ceremony" is there indeed.
But this should not concern the surgeon general.
 
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nononsense

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If everyone just ate right and exercised and didn’t drink or smoke and had a positive attitude then all disease would just magically disappear.

Funnily enough, all the testimonies for this malarkey are all living and are more than happy to tell you why they haven’t gotten sick. Unfortunately, you can’t interview the dead people who had positive attitudes, worked out, ate right, didn’t drink and still died of brain cancer so you’re only getting half the story.

Don’t get me wrong, I fully understand the benefits of living healthy but disease can happen to anyone, no matter your lifestyle and these hucksters are exactly the same as the religious phonies telling you that Jesus can prevent you from getting sick or dying, all you have to do is send them some money.

And this was annoying me way before they started taking over the health agencies in our government.

I feel that all of this is going to come to a really nasty end.
 
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sydneyhamster

Smack-Fu Master, in training
1
God, I miss Surgeon General C. Everett Koop.
"I am the surgeon general of the heterosexuals and the homosexuals, of the young and the old, of the moral or the immoral, the married and the unmarried. I don't have the luxury of deciding which side I want to be on. So I can tell you how to keep yourself alive no matter what you are. That's my job."
 
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The bar has been set so low that any of us posting here, would probably make for a better candidate. I don't know whether to laugh, or cry.
I'm currently suffering from a mild early-spring cold. There's a wastebasket under my desk half full of snotty kleenex.

That wad of damp tissue would make a better candidate than the grifter in the nominee's chair.
 
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BruceTheHoon

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
112
I often wonder how these senators can support and confirm RFK Jr. and other nutjobs. Where is their sense of decency, or responsibility? Doesn't their office mean anything anymore?
Oh, it means literally everything to them. In other words: anything else means nothing including the aforementioned sense of decency and responsibility.
 
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BruceTheHoon

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
112
Anyone who votes to confirm this woo-woo influencer should be shown the “ginger beer trick”.

As, for that matter, should all “influencers”. God how I despise the lot of them.
Hey, people would pay absurd amounts of money for that in detox resorts! I can't see it being any worse than those frappuccino enemas influencers are already having there, despite having made even the inquisition pee its pants.
 
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richstad

Smack-Fu Master, in training
20
Well, in South Africa, we had a Minister of Health, Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, who believed that potato, garlic, & beetroot could cure HIV/AIDS, and our esteemed president at the time, Thabo Mbeki, eagerly endorsed her truly spectacular stupidity.

At AIDS conferences around the world, the entire audience would get up and walk out if she was a guest speaker. Our beloved country had the highest rate of HIV/AIDS in the world (and still does very well on that score) and our leaders were rightfully scorned.
 
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MilanKraft

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
7,020
Don't forget that Collins, Murkowski and the other R senators "have concerns" and "are troubled" frequently, but at the end of the day just fall in line. Collins is the worst about doing this but still somehow only votes against Trump nominees when her vote doesn't matter. Murkowski at least has some guts and took a stand in the first administration, but now she's terrified of Trump's base.
100%.

At this point, with all the priors we know about, it borders on suspect journalistic practice for any legit outlet to describe especially Collins' but also Murkowski's "concerns" on any given issue. (Talking on the whole — obviously Beth is going with Ars' standard practice, the same way an AP journalist would go with their standard practice in describing or quoting these politicians.) I say suspect because it's almost as if the outlets are not aware this is a game Collins and Murkowski are playing.... they have zero intention of going against Trump, but they know if they voice "concerns" the media will report it and this adds to their veneer of "moderation" and "traditional republican", which many of their voters still want. Basically their re-election tight-rope is: rubber-stamp everything Trump does, but pretend ahead of time like you won't, and then afterward give some excuse why you decided it was OK. In the end though, they're just stooges like the rest.

Ars should try to lead in this area and simply not report Collins' and Murkowski's "concerns" — or add side-commentary that "their concerns have rarely resulted in no votes in the past" — until such time as they actually vote "no" on someone or something Trump wants. At least with the MAGA assholes we know what we're getting and why. With these two it's almost worse, because they're pretending to be rational actors when in fact they're not. Talking no and voting yes is arguably more insidious than "own the libs, we're voting yes down the line no matter what Trump says or does!"
 
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sword_9mm

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I often wonder how these senators can support and confirm RFK Jr. and other nutjobs. Where is their sense of decency, or responsibility? Doesn't their office mean anything anymore?

They are doing what they think keeps their job (if they're not true believers already).

The job is all that matters. The power, the office, the staff, the parties. The actual job functions? Nah.
 
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Or “I’m not a doctor, but I play one on the interweb.”
Maybe they should ask Hugh Laurie aka House MD to do the job. Because he’s got more brains than the whole bunch of them between them and he would at least try to do a good job, listen to people who know how to do it, and try not to kill anyone.
 
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Cycledoc2210

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
191
We used to talk of the art and science of medicine with the "sacred patient-doctor" at the heart of the relationship. In case you haven't noticed, except occasionally in the mind of a very few patients and doctors, there is no patient-doctor relationship. Instead there is a revenue generating business that does medicine.

And now we have bozos like Means and Kennedy, actively undermining science all for personal gain.
 
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Uncivil Servant

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Oh, it means literally everything to them. In other words: anything else means nothing including the aforementioned sense of decency and responsibility.

Tom Nichols has referrer to this by saying that their greatest fear is "being banished from the Emerald City." He was being semi-sympathetic, people like Nichols or myself have a path through government that's at least somewhat meritocratic*.

Legislators' government careers, and their ability to have any influence at all, is entirely dependent on a semi-random popularity contest that even experts who are paid millions will tell you they barely understand and cannot entirely predict.

I can almost understand why people prefer conspiracy theories. The reality that government is a social construct with rules that seem ridiculous taken out of context can be scary.


*Meaning the best for the job, among those lucky enough to be born into the right families, able to afford the right education, etc
 
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As he's the Senator who cast the deciding vote in favor of RFK Jr. to get that nomination out of committee, I'm not sure he gets to claim "strong advocate for vaccines". RFK Jr.'s views on vaccines were hardly a secret. Senator Cassidy's pretending to buy his attempts to obfuscate those views and then acting Shocked, Shocked I tell you that there was gambling going on at Rick's Cafe he did in fact oppose a whole slew of vaccines was hardly a profile in courage moment.
Being from Louisiana I'm extremely disappointed in the senator's horrible choice with RFK Jr's appointment...and I have told him as much. The pinky promise was of course never going to stand. We need to get some laws on the books that require, at a minimum a degree relevant to the role, before being able to be appointed into these positions.
 
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jonah

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
6,616
Don't forget that Collins, Murkowski and the other R senators "have concerns" and "are troubled" frequently, but at the end of the day just fall in line. Collins is the worst about doing this but still somehow only votes against Trump nominees when her vote doesn't matter. Murkowski at least has some guts and took a stand in the first administration, but now she's terrified of Trump's base.
This is the highly sophisticated tactic that has happened a thousand times since Trump rolled back into office.

"[insert R senator here] has concerns, may vote against xyz."

Immediately followed by:

[insert R senator here] either votes for xyz, or if the vote doesn't matter, "votes on principle" against it so they can say they did that.

And the dumbasses in Maine, Alaska, and elsewhere (not to mention the Democratic Party) haven't cottoned onto this, despite it being obvious as a brick to the head.
 
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Castellum Excors

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Afterward, Senators Collins and Murkowski both said they still had questions. Murkowski also said she had “strong reservations” about Means’s nomination and that, as of last week, that opinion hadn’t changed, according to the Post.

This just means the check hasn't cleared, yet.
 
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Snark218

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37,061
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She talks about this extensively in her book. To oversimplify, she argued that the specialities in the medical field are too siloed in their focus, preventing them from seeing systematic or holistic problems affecting the body on a larger scale. She makes the case that the incentives in the health system perpetuate this problem.
Which is, of course, facile nonsense that’s convincing mostly to people who know fuck-all about shit.
 
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