Toyota fined $180 million for 10 years of noncompliance with EPA regs
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I *cannot imagine* what happened in 2015 that might have caused a carmaker to have more confidence they would only get a slap on the wrist by finally reporting all of these...
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move over vw move over fca there's a new cheater in town
This town used to be smaller and a lot less polluted
This town used to be smaller and a lot less polluted
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So, I sold my POS unreliable VW made by cheaters to buy a Toyota and I learn that they are (to a lesser degree) also cheaters...
That being said, I like my Toyota a lot more than the pos VW at least it won't fall appart in 4-5 years and it's better equipped for a lesser price.
That being said, I like my Toyota a lot more than the pos VW at least it won't fall appart in 4-5 years and it's better equipped for a lesser price.
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I was going to look up the last 10 years profit to see just how little this "largest such fine ever issued" was. I figured I only had to stop after 3 years.
Toyota annual net income for 2020 was $19.10B
Toyota annual net income for 2019 was $16.95B
Toyota annual net income for 2018 was $22.45B
Source: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/char ... statements
So this fine was.... 0.94% of *one year's* profit? Thats a fucking rounding error over the last decade.
*edited for net instead of gross*
Toyota annual net income for 2020 was $19.10B
Toyota annual net income for 2019 was $16.95B
Toyota annual net income for 2018 was $22.45B
Source: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/char ... statements
So this fine was.... 0.94% of *one year's* profit? Thats a fucking rounding error over the last decade.
*edited for net instead of gross*
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2019 alone gave them 23 billion dollars in profit.
This amounts to 18 million a year, but I wonder what the cost of recalls, systematic reporting, and further design changes would have amounted to across various models they make.
id guess they got out like bandits
This amounts to 18 million a year, but I wonder what the cost of recalls, systematic reporting, and further design changes would have amounted to across various models they make.
id guess they got out like bandits
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I didn't even bother looking up that. $180 million over 10 years is $18 million/year.
I wouldn't be surprised if that didn't even cover the annual utility & maintenance bills for a couple of factories.
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Still absurdly big numbers, but is net income the better metric here?
[edit]Ninja'ed by Nowicki
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A long-time friend of mine is employed by a rather large multinational corporation.
His job, basically...is to call people and remind them that they (more specifically, their companies) have bills to pay...and that the due date has passed.
He has been doing this job for decades.
I guess I was surprised to find out that, in his opinion, it was standard operating procedure, at the corporate level...to not pay bills until they absolutely had to.
"That's the way big business works," he told me.
Silly me. I was surprised to hear this.
=====
I was also surprised (five years or so ago) to read about the numerous contractors that our current US president had snookered over the years, when he was a real estate developer
At my own workplace, I became friends with one of our security officers (a NYC native). This gentleman (a Republican) was on a first-name basis with the individual who served as our current president's head of security.
I recall him telling me, while smiling, that he knew Trump to be a crazy person, was not to be trusted...and that everyone in his New York orbit was aware of that fact.
As an example, he told me that Trump and his immediate family had dental work done by the very best cosmetic dentist in NYC.
He also informed me that the dentist would not do the work on Trump and his family unless he was paid in advance.
=====
Reading about Toyota...and VW...fix, fiddle and fudge with pollution controls and guidelines and reports and regulations?
Not surprised at all.
His job, basically...is to call people and remind them that they (more specifically, their companies) have bills to pay...and that the due date has passed.
He has been doing this job for decades.
I guess I was surprised to find out that, in his opinion, it was standard operating procedure, at the corporate level...to not pay bills until they absolutely had to.
"That's the way big business works," he told me.
Silly me. I was surprised to hear this.
=====
I was also surprised (five years or so ago) to read about the numerous contractors that our current US president had snookered over the years, when he was a real estate developer
At my own workplace, I became friends with one of our security officers (a NYC native). This gentleman (a Republican) was on a first-name basis with the individual who served as our current president's head of security.
I recall him telling me, while smiling, that he knew Trump to be a crazy person, was not to be trusted...and that everyone in his New York orbit was aware of that fact.
As an example, he told me that Trump and his immediate family had dental work done by the very best cosmetic dentist in NYC.
He also informed me that the dentist would not do the work on Trump and his family unless he was paid in advance.
=====
Reading about Toyota...and VW...fix, fiddle and fudge with pollution controls and guidelines and reports and regulations?
Not surprised at all.
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Yep. They are nice Toyotas with all the good reliability.
If Toyota ever made a hot hatch Corolla I'd be interested there too but would rather they put it under Lexus so it gets better fit and finish.
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The didn't see the plot twist where Toyota turned out to be one of the bad guys and Ford turned out to be one of the good guys.
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The EPA had bulletproof evidence that this stuff was not submitted. The submissions are required by law. Why did the EPA settle? And why isn't anyone going to jail or being held personally civilly liable?
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I don't understand the implication here. Did not filing the proper paperwork delay fixes to potential emission problems? That's bad. If the EPA simply wasn't informed, but Toyota worked to fix the problem that's... less bad. Are any of the issues that Toyota deliberately subverted emission test/standards to make more money?
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Is the 180M the statutorily provided for amount (or close to it) or way less?
Makes a difference as to whether settling is a good deal (for taxpayers) or not.
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Accountants wouldn’t be filing EPA paperwork- I think you are looking for a “rogue compliance Officer”.
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Unless I read the article wrong, they were doing the recalls, they just weren't reporting the data to the EPA.
So, even if the fine is low compared to their profits, it's probably more than what it would have costed to do the reporting.
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2015 was the year the VW emissions scandal hit. I expect Toyota took a closer look at their own compliance, and made an effort to get their house in order. Or the EPA sent everyone a request for additional info which triggered the disclosures.
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Timing might be because they're afraid a Biden admin will insist on a higher payout/more onerous terms.
Totally speculation, but the week before an inauguration is... interesting timing, especially considering large chunks of the normal political leadership positions are totally empty right now.
Totally speculation, but the week before an inauguration is... interesting timing, especially considering large chunks of the normal political leadership positions are totally empty right now.
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This is a nice bit of false equivalency.
Toyota fucked up submitting the proper paperwork to the EPA. That isn't great and they deserve to be punished for it.
Toyota did not install emissions cheat devices on their vehicles and release literally tons of extra pollution. We also do not know why this occurred, if it was mistake or malfeasance. They appeared to be following California regulations instead of the stricter federal.
VW didn't get hit up with a reporting problem. They got hit up with intentionally violating the emissions standards. This was absolutely malicious and killed people.
I would assume if EPA found further violations of the Clean Air act in the reporting they received in 2015, that it would likely be part of this case.
I'm glad that they threw the book at Toyota, but what Toyota did is not even close to as bad as VW.
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Still a PHEV and not a full BEV. Now, if you'd said the Mirai...
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Timing is likely because it took a significant amount of time to review a decade worth of back findings. Not to mention after the VW the EPA probably was looking to see if Toyota was hiding anything in those findings beyond the reporting problems.
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I didn't see any notes that they actually violated any emission laws or cheated any tests. 180Million for a paperwork violation does seem pretty high. Clearly though government wants their paperwork in order. Unless though they are spending our money, then people just lose track of billions of dollars and there is never a penalty on them.
https://www.city-journal.org/html/ameri ... 15725.html
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There is always a possibility that the other company goes bankrupt before they can force you to pay. Especially if it is a small contractor.
So it is not just immoral, it is downright predatory.
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The thing is, it didn't. I know its popular to single VW out but as I have said often in the comments, it's just the one that got caught first.
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They also have done it at a scale that by and far exceeded anyone else, due to how heavily they pushed the diesel engines. But in recent times diesel engines and all the companies that were pushing these vehicles seem to have gotten hit with something.
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Gitling gun points at Toyota
Tesla fans heave a sigh of relief
Edit
Nice reporting in the article.
I’m still amazed it took them 8 years to acknowledge the inverter issue on the Prius
I also had the opportunity to test the 2019/2020 redesigned Prius and Prime and everyone in our group agreed that the back razor fins looked terrible
We did a written report and then on camera. This was in 2017 I think
Toyota took all that feedback for the U.S market and.....added the fins anyway
Tesla fans heave a sigh of relief
Edit
Nice reporting in the article.
I’m still amazed it took them 8 years to acknowledge the inverter issue on the Prius
I also had the opportunity to test the 2019/2020 redesigned Prius and Prime and everyone in our group agreed that the back razor fins looked terrible
We did a written report and then on camera. This was in 2017 I think
Toyota took all that feedback for the U.S market and.....added the fins anyway
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BevansDesign
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Any penalty that's worth less than what they made breaking the rules is just a bribe.
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I would guess this has more to do with their reliability rating than trying to skirt complying with EPA rules. They appear to have fixed whatever issues they found, they just didn't want people to find out they had to fix it in the first place. Car manufacturers go to great lengths to have their cars be found reliable.
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I did work for awhile as a solo consultant for small businesses (larger consulting firms usually targeted bigger businesses), and I can tell you this is basically how all businesses work. I often had to threaten to take them to court to get them to pay up after the fact. It's why I eventually stopped doing consulting, I spent more time trying to get my money after doing work then actually working and that wasn't any way to live.
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