Tim Cook: Apple TV orders start Monday, begin shipping next week

New box has an Apple A8, 2GB of RAM, 32 or 64GB of storage, and a new remote.

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[koolraap]

The 1080p limitation is really surprising. If you're spending $200 on an Apple TV the next TV you buy is likely to be 4k and likely within the lifespan of this device. I own a ATV3, it's great and I was really looking forward to the ATV4...

Help me Arsians, I don't own a 4k TV, but I will in the next 12 months. Should I buy an ATV4? (EDIT: I use an ATV3 as my main Netflix streamer, I rent a movie every, say, 2 months).

 

[cadence]

I still own second generation Apple TV. My main beef with it is that colors look more washed out than on my PS3 or my cable TV box. I'm wondering whether other people also noticed that issue, and whether this was fixed in never ATVs.

 

[flyingember]

koolraap[/url]":3k0xs76e]The 1080p limitation is really surprising. If you're spending $200 on an Apple TV the next TV you buy is likely to be 4k and likely within the lifespan of this device. I own a ATV3, it's great and I was really looking forward to the ATV4...

Help me Arsians, I don't own a 4k TV, but I will in the next 12 months. Should I buy an ATV4? (EDIT: I use an ATV3 as my main Netflix streamer, I rent a movie every, say, 2 months).

We have the second model.

I plan to coordinate buying this model with a new TV purchase.

 

[NetworkElf]

koolraap[/url]":3bfz5gom]The 1080p limitation is really surprising. If you're spending $200 on an Apple TV the next TV you buy is likely to be 4k and likely within the lifespan of this device. I own a ATV3, it's great and I was really looking forward to the ATV4...

Help me Arsians, I don't own a 4k TV, but I will in the next 12 months. Should I buy an ATV4? (EDIT: I use an ATV3 as my main Netflix streamer, I rent a movie every, say, 2 months).

I just bought a 4K UHD Samsung. Since the new ATV doesn't natively support the TVs resolution, I won't be buying this generation of ATV unless my current ATV dies completely.

Now, keep in mind that this is based as much on the fact that the things I commonly use on my current ATV are already baked into my new TV (Netflix et al.), excepting sending VDO output from my iPhone, iPad and Macbook to the TV. Lacking the higher resolutions, I see my current ATV as perfectly acceptable for that task.

 

[neodorian]

theoilman[/url]":27hbdrae]I'll be interested in the reviews to hear more about siri controls and how they compare to Alexa in the fire TV, but as with the fire TV, having a box you control with a remote is the old cable TV paradigm. It's outdated. Casting is the future of TV.

I use a Chromecast rather than a Fire TV but same question: isn't is still controlling a (admittedly small) box with a nicer remote (your mobile device or computer)? I guess my question is if you meant the paradigm shift is toward using other devices instead of dedicated remotes because for the most part, that's how I see "cast" devices. My phone or computer is a remote and it tells the Chromecast, etc. what app to load and view the content.

 

[JAlfredPrufrock]

Look at those 64GB in a $200 device. It's like memory is not as expensive as other differentiating factors...

Oh.

 

[dtich]

cadence[/url]":2cdwyp60]I still own second generation Apple TV. My main beef with it is that colors look more washed out than on my PS3 or my cable TV box. I'm wondering whether other people also noticed that issue, and whether this was fixed in never ATVs.

i don't remember color space being an issue with any of the atvs. you may have a setting wrong. in any case, atv3 looks great. apple is actually by far the best at managing the color space transitions in web based/served content; computer (rgb) and digital video (rec601/709/p3) colorspaces are not the same and there is a translation that must happen in moving between the delivery spaces.. apple has always done this quite well.

tl;dr your apple tv should look very good, if it doesn't, you're holding it wrong. (not /s)

 

[gruntboyx]

koolraap[/url]":1g7hxwe0]The 1080p limitation is really surprising. If you're spending $200 on an Apple TV the next TV you buy is likely to be 4k and likely within the lifespan of this device. I own a ATV3, it's great and I was really looking forward to the ATV4...

Help me Arsians, I don't own a 4k TV, but I will in the next 12 months. Should I buy an ATV4? (EDIT: I use an ATV3 as my main Netflix streamer, I rent a movie every, say, 2 months).

Not too big of deal for most. Yes 4K is getting affordable. However the broadband infrastructure is not there to reliably deliver 4K content to most people. And you really don't get a big benefit to 4K unless you have a large TV and Sit really close to it.

I think of this as a very accessible product. Give time for the market to mature a little more and Apple will come out with a new revision to support 4K. I think they are taking the approach of a solid 1080P experience to keep customer satisfaction high.

 

[alexr]

cadence[/url]":1lih32b2]I still own second generation Apple TV. My main beef with it is that colors look more washed out than on my PS3 or my cable TV box. I'm wondering whether other people also noticed that issue, and whether this was fixed in never ATVs.

Try playing with the various output options in Settings > Audio & Video > HDMI Output. Specifically, try 'RGB High' and 'RGB Low' and see if that helps – your TV or Apple TV might be using the wrong levels for black and white.

 

[gijames1225]

IcePikmin[/url]":uw4dlbsi]

koolraap[/url]":uw4dlbsi]The 1080p limitation is really surprising. If you're spending $200 on an Apple TV the next TV you buy is likely to be 4k and likely within the lifespan of this device. I own a ATV3, it's great and I was really looking forward to the ATV4...

Help me Arsians, I don't own a 4k TV, but I will in the next 12 months. Should I buy an ATV4? (EDIT: I use an ATV3 as my main Netflix streamer, I rent a movie every, say, 2 months).

The competition will always be ahead of Apple, and is why I left the Apple ecosystem. Amazon's new Fire TV has 4k support.

Uh, I don't know about 'always ahead' (and I'm pretty sure you said that only to get downvotes), but this is one area where you'd probably be better off going with somebody else's product if 4k is important to you unless Airplay and Apple's ecosystem are more important. If you have the flexibility to not by Apple then the new Fire TV is a pretty good option for 4k.

Edited for clarity and conciseness

 

[williamlondon]

Will be very interesting to see what happens in the new associated ATV app store, what media centre apps will launch there, what games, how the games will play with included remote vs. external (proper) controller, what other apps clever developers will create.

 

[david_a]

I'm wondering if the "apps" on the current Apple TVs will be abandoned or they will see some updates as well. I was very disappointed with how bare the HBO Now app was (no adding TV series to your watchlist, no indication of which episodes you've watched, etc). My hope is that they added these features for the new fancy ATV4 app and they'll backport it to the old one as well.

 

[tipoo]

I hope they remove the game requirement to support the default controller soon. Seems like that needlessly hampers the types of games that developers could make on this. I mean, they could always give the built in controller a hacky control scheme and then highly recommend you get a third party one, but I wonder how happy Apple would be with that.

I wonder if the ATV will be on an N-1 SoC from the iPhones from here on out. That would bring it to breathing down the necks of the current gen consoles in a few short years (by which time we'd probably be thinking about the 9th gen, but still, impressive). with no battery and larger size for cooling I wish they had shown us what an A9 or A8X in those situations could do, instead of the A8.

 

[Deleted member 330960]

theoilman[/url]":2sjaxlfr]I'll be interested in the reviews to hear more about siri controls and how they compare to Alexa in the fire TV, but as with the fire TV, having a box you control with a remote is the old cable TV paradigm. It's outdated. Casting is the future of TV.

Considering Apple has had casting for nearly 5 years, I think they know a thing or two about this. Anyway, will buy and give my 3rd gen ATV to my parents, but the 4K limit isn't great.

 

[Satay08]

koolraap[/url]":3abzb88h]The 1080p limitation is really surprising. If you're spending $200 on an Apple TV the next TV you buy is likely to be 4k and likely within the lifespan of this device. I own a ATV3, it's great and I was really looking forward to the ATV4...

Help me Arsians, I don't own a 4k TV, but I will in the next 12 months. Should I buy an ATV4? (EDIT: I use an ATV3 as my main Netflix streamer, I rent a movie every, say, 2 months).

Ars did a nice review on the new Roku 4. That product supports 4k video at 60 frames/sec, and Amazon streaming video too. Both features are not available on Apple TV.

Millions of new phones now record in 4K, including iPhone 6s. Also Netflix and Youtube have 4K content. It's surprising that the new Apple TV box does not support 4K video.

 

[Abulia]

I'm on the fence here. I have a 100% Apple ecosystem at home, 2 ATVs, a server hosting an iTunes library for the home, multiple Airport Express endpoints for streaming to speakers, and more.

That said, beyond using the Remote.app to stream music to the AE stations, I don't think I've turned on my ATV in 6 months or so.

Most of my main usage of ATV is now via my Xbox One (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Video). Plus the X1 is way more convenient, as I don't have to fuss with inputs, and see friend notifications, etc.

So I'm really struggling as to whether I even need a new ATV. A year ago it was a "must have" center of my home but it's been kicked to the curb rather unceremoniously.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Do we know if the lack of 4K is a hardware or software limitation?

Edit: from what I can gather it's a software, not hardware, limitation. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find 4k support appearing in a software update. The question is when.

 

[gijames1225]

got2bereal[/url]":2029k9p7]I don't like apple's product these days because they always put out something with some big limitations so you have to buy the next version to get that feature. So why buy this new Apple TV without 4K and then wait another 2 years to get 4K. Just get the Nvidia Shield now that supports 4K and wait for Apple TV to catch up.

It would make a lot more sense if it was priced like the old Apple TV, but yeah, $150 is a little bit much to drop when it's probable that within a year or two a 4k model will be offered and the content will be there to make it desirable over this one. That said, I doubt much of Apple's market for these really cares, and 1080p look good enough anyway. This model will be great for business.

 

[Hesster56]

Probably a dumb question, but can I use the onboard memory to store music and videos, or do I have to keep streaming them?

 

[williamlondon]

GreyAreaUk[/url]":14havvi7]Do we know if the lack of 4K is a hardware or software limitation?

Edit: from what I can gather it's a software, not hardware, limitation. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find 4k support appearing in a software update. The question is when.

When there's more content available to stock their iTunes store than what can be enjoyed in a mere few sittings, would be my prediction.

 

[Deleted member 330960]

theoilman[/url]":2bo8j4qo]

neodorian[/url]":2bo8j4qo]

theoilman[/url]":2bo8j4qo]I'll be interested in the reviews to hear more about siri controls and how they compare to Alexa in the fire TV, but as with the fire TV, having a box you control with a remote is the old cable TV paradigm. It's outdated. Casting is the future of TV.

I use a Chromecast rather than a Fire TV but same question: isn't is still controlling a (admittedly small) box with a nicer remote (your mobile device or computer)? I guess my question is if you meant the paradigm shift is toward using other devices instead of dedicated remotes because for the most part, that's how I see "cast" devices. My phone or computer is a remote and it tells the Chromecast, etc. what app to load and view the content.

Let me clarify: using a remote to control a clunky interface on the TV screen is outdated. Using a second, more intuitive device such as your phone to cast to a dumb receiver in the TV such as the chromecast is the future.

This has also been on iOS for 5 years. Next non-issue xxyyzz being the future that Apple can't see?

 

[xme]

So with all these new devices (ATV, Roku, FireTV, Shield, Chromecast) can we expect an Ars shootout/meta-review? 'Cause I'd really like to see an Ars meta-review...

 

[blackcrayon]

gijames1225[/url]":252fpy5t]

got2bereal[/url]":252fpy5t]I don't like apple's product these days because they always put out something with some big limitations so you have to buy the next version to get that feature. So why buy this new Apple TV without 4K and then wait another 2 years to get 4K. Just get the Nvidia Shield now that supports 4K and wait for Apple TV to catch up.

It would make a lot more sense if it was priced like the old Apple TV, but yeah, $150 is a little bit much to drop when it's probable that within a year or two a 4k model will be offered and the content will be there to make it desirable over this one. That said, I doubt much of Apple's market for these really cares, and 1080p look good enough anyway. This model will be great for business.

$150 isn't bad - but I think a lot of people could justify simply moving it to another TV in their house when this happens. The best set top device goes with the best TV, and older ones for less "important" screens elsewhere. Also, the sale of your old one for $90 or whatever in a year makes a new one easier to swallow that way too.

 

[Satay08]

williamlondon[/url]":ha42bgup]

GreyAreaUk[/url]":ha42bgup]Do we know if the lack of 4K is a hardware or software limitation?

Edit: from what I can gather it's a software, not hardware, limitation. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find 4k support appearing in a software update. The question is when.

When there's more content available to stock their iTunes store than what can be enjoyed in a mere few sittings, would be my prediction.

According to 'Tech Specs' on the Apple website, Apple TV has HDMI 1.4 interface.

HDMI 2.0 is needed for proper 4K video support. That is hardware, so a software update won't be forthcoming.

Apple will probably release a new model in a year or two with 4K support.

 

[bri2000]

neodorian[/url]":3j7tyr8w]

theoilman[/url]":3j7tyr8w]I'll be interested in the reviews to hear more about siri controls and how they compare to Alexa in the fire TV, but as with the fire TV, having a box you control with a remote is the old cable TV paradigm. It's outdated. Casting is the future of TV.

I use a Chromecast rather than a Fire TV but same question: isn't is still controlling a (admittedly small) box with a nicer remote (your mobile device or computer)? I guess my question is if you meant the paradigm shift is toward using other devices instead of dedicated remotes because for the most part, that's how I see "cast" devices. My phone or computer is a remote and it tells the Chromecast, etc. what app to load and view the content.

I was wondering about that as well. If OP's point was specifically about not having external boxes then I agree. I look on these streaming (or casting or whatever) boxes as interim products, similar to FreeView boxes in the UK when we switched to digital broadcasts, which will become obsolete as the functionality gets incorporated into the TV itself. My two year old Samsung Smart TV does pretty much everything my third gen Apple TV does (more, in some ways, as it has clients for all the main UK catchup TV services and Amazon) and you can slap a USB HDD into it and use it as a DVR. The interface is clunkier and than the ATV, but it works. The main exception and my main use for the ATV is streaming my iTunes library from iCloud so, as I'm stuck with a S/PDIF only amp for now (I want the replacement to be future proof so am waiting for HDMI 2.0 compatible amps to become more widely available, this new version isn't of much use to me.

I'm slightly surprised that Apple haven't released a 4k iOS powered TV yet. It's the sort of market they've always done well in (relatively small at present but with strong growth potential and no real standards set yet). I would've thought it would make more money than a watch. But then I don't have USD200bn or so in the bank so what do I know?

 

[Infinity4011]

Satay08[/url]":20a8osay]

williamlondon[/url]":20a8osay]

GreyAreaUk[/url]":20a8osay]Do we know if the lack of 4K is a hardware or software limitation?

Edit: from what I can gather it's a software, not hardware, limitation. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find 4k support appearing in a software update. The question is when.

When there's more content available to stock their iTunes store than what can be enjoyed in a mere few sittings, would be my prediction.

According to 'Tech Specs' on the Apple website, Apple TV has HDMI 1.4 interface.

HDMI 2.0 is needed for proper 4K video support. That is hardware, so a software update won't be forthcoming.

Apple will probably release a new model in a year or two with 4K support.

And when they do, they'll call it the Apple TV 4K. Get it? Yeah, I'll see myself out...

 

[qazwart]

What exactly does the extra $50 gets you with the 64Gb model? iOS apps aren't that big. Even if you have 100 of them, even big games, it's not likely to take up more than 32Gb. Content, I take it, will still be streamed.

So far, I haven't found anything that tells me exactly what this memory is used for. On my iPhone and iPad, it's obvious because the iPad and iPhone store actual videos and music on the device. In fact, if I "rent" a movie via the iTunes store on my iPad, it has to download before I can play it. On my Apple TV, music and video are streamed.

So, what is this memory used for?

 

[curl | bash]

theoilman[/url]":1npay3i6]

tayhimself[/url]":1npay3i6]

theoilman[/url]":1npay3i6]I'll be interested in the reviews to hear more about siri controls and how they compare to Alexa in the fire TV, but as with the fire TV, having a box you control with a remote is the old cable TV paradigm. It's outdated. Casting is the future of TV.

Considering Apple has had casting for nearly 5 years, I think they know a thing or two about this. Anyway, will buy and give my 3rd gen ATV to my parents, but the 4K limit isn't great.

ATV has had screen mirroring for a long time, not casting. Mirroring is equally useful for other things, but casting is the future of watching or listening to media.

I must've been hallucinating the other day when I told the youtube app on my phone to cast a video.

 

[melgross]

JAlfredPrufrock[/url]":3oxp495a]Look at those 64GB in a $200 device. It's like memory is not as expensive as other differentiating factors...

Oh.

Well the ATv, model 3, used to cost $99, now $69, has 8GB. So if we figure $99 for the hardware other than the memory, which would be the same price as the old model with the 8 GB, then it's $49 for 32GB, and $49 more for an additional 32GB. No real difference between what they charge for the phone.

 

[JiveTurkeyJerky]

Andorien[/url]":209e6g5e]

theoilman[/url]":209e6g5e]

tayhimself[/url]":209e6g5e]

theoilman[/url]":209e6g5e]I'll be interested in the reviews to hear more about siri controls and how they compare to Alexa in the fire TV, but as with the fire TV, having a box you control with a remote is the old cable TV paradigm. It's outdated. Casting is the future of TV.

Considering Apple has had casting for nearly 5 years, I think they know a thing or two about this. Anyway, will buy and give my 3rd gen ATV to my parents, but the 4K limit isn't great.

ATV has had screen mirroring for a long time, not casting. Mirroring is equally useful for other things, but casting is the future of watching or listening to media.

I must've been hallucinating the other day when I told the youtube app on my phone to cast a video.

edit: someone was kind enough to post on how AirPlay seems to work, which is a combination of mirroring, casting and more depending upon what the app/situation calls for. This is why I prefer Ars, I can almost always learn something in the comments section.

my post was correct on how a Chromecast works, but incomplete on how AirPlay works

 

[neodorian]

bri2000[/url]":14a2u3rn]I look on these streaming (or casting or whatever) boxes as interim products, similar to FreeView boxes in the UK when we switched to digital broadcasts, which will become obsolete as the functionality gets incorporated into the TV itself. My two year old Samsung Smart TV does pretty much everything my third gen Apple TV does (more, in some ways, as it has clients for all the main UK catchup TV services and Amazon) and you can slap a USB HDD into it and use it as a DVR. The interface is clunkier and than the ATV, but it works.

This is one area where we'll likely disagree then. I specifically don't prefer options included in the actual display (this goes for smart TV as well as all-in-one computers that aren't laptops/tablets). I say this because my HDTV is still the first one I ever purchased. It's probably 6 years old or thereabouts and I basically waited until I could get a reasonably sized (47" diag) HDTV with 1920x1080 native resolution for under $1000 before I bought one.

I've looked at newer TVs and it really is great that $1000 gets you so much more than it did ~6 years ago but at the same time, I don't really plan to replace this TV until it either dies, or I can get 4K content from more sources. I just don't watch enough TV on the actual TV to be worth the expense. My girlfriend watches cable or Netflix on the HDTV, often in heavily compressed formats or scaled-up SD from cable so 4K or a larger/nicer screen would be wasted. I usually watch shows and play games on my nice big computer monitor.

The point of my ramble is that we keep our TVs for a while. If I'd bought a "smart" TV 6 years ago, the "smart" functionality and performance would probably be terrible compared to current offerings. And when they're integrated, you have to pay for a new TV to get more up to date "smart" stuff. I'd much rather just get a nice quality display that fits in my budget and offers the best viewing quality in its price range. Then I can just buy a $35 Chromecast or $100 Roku or a $200 AppleTV every 2-3 years as the features and performance of those things improves. These things are developed at the scale of mobile devices so options and performance increase a lot faster than that of display tech.