Turns out the list of “transactions” is “anything that makes the app function.”
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TikTok, WeChat to be pulled from US app stores as of September 20
- Thread starter JournalBot
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If CDNs in the US are not allowed to do business with TikTok, TikTok is practically dead in the US, even if it is technically accessible from some server in Singapore...
EDIT: clarify that I meant TikTok US operations, not worldwide operations. I thought it was obvious. (not sure why some people have a problem with that)
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I think the administration is going to learn a tough lesson regarding how difficult it actually is to enact a prohibition of this type in reality (not that they are huge fans of reality anyway).
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Now we see the value of being to install any program, not just manufacturer-approved ones, on your own computer.
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202
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Admittedly I am not completely up on the issues with TikTok and WeChat (other than I'm aware they provide some data back to China....I don't use either app), but I'm not sure how to feel about the government deciding it can censor which apps we can and cannot use. Seems a slippery slope that could lead to censoring websites or other information that we decry other countries for doing. Have there been other apps we've banned in the past for similar reasons?
Also, perhaps someone could explain the "national security" concern of a 15 year old using Tik-Tok vs. just banning the app on government-issued devices?
Also, perhaps someone could explain the "national security" concern of a 15 year old using Tik-Tok vs. just banning the app on government-issued devices?
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274
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This is going to be a bonanza for malware, how long before we see tons of high ranking google search results showing how to install poisoned versions of TikTok and WeChat from dubious sources?
OK, I know there's an argument that it's already malware, but you get my point.
OK, I know there's an argument that it's already malware, but you get my point.
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158
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So much stupid.
I actually think there are national security concerns here but then Orange Julius gets hold of the story and all concern for doing the best things for the right reasons gets strangled in the cradle so Oracle (DIF) and Orange can stroke each other. It's so much more complicated than this, but this is all I can muster.
I actually think there are national security concerns here but then Orange Julius gets hold of the story and all concern for doing the best things for the right reasons gets strangled in the cradle so Oracle (DIF) and Orange can stroke each other. It's so much more complicated than this, but this is all I can muster.
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59
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They are just going to delist them from the store. Though, the stores have to ability nuke from orbit if an app is deemed dangerous/problematic enough. AFAIK it’s only limited to apps obtained through the store, it wouldn’t affect sideloaded apps. So on the Android side of things people could still install the app through apks.
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They're prohibiting the companies that would have provided you with the apps from providing you with those apps. Not the first time financial sanctions have been levied on a company trying to do business in the US, not by a long shot. This is just a lot more visible to the average consumer.
Installing this chat app, any chat app really, yourself, on a device which allows you to do so, is still AOK.
Yes, if you use WeChat to send money to China you, yourself, could at some stage possibly face charges.
If you think that's a new thing, though, think again. were you to try to use any other service, digital or otherwise, to send money to a country or organisation under some sort of sanctions, you could already very well be in violation of several banking-related laws or regulations.
In short, it's nowhere near as novel as it might initially seem to be - no matter how you might feel about the justification for these particular measures.
edit to answer edit:
Ten years from now, what blackmail material might have been gathered on someone who might now be in a sensitive position? I mean, given what folks publish on social media themselves nowadays, I'm not sure it's much of an argument - but it keeps popping up as a justification.
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Uh, no, "slow" is not "practically dead". It will just be like any other website physically located abroad that does not use a CDN to begin with.
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My reading of the order looks like changing the name of the app and the domains associated with its functions would be enough to get around the order.
Search and replace "WeChat" with "YouChat" and resubmit the app to the app stores.
Search and replace "WeChat" with "YouChat" and resubmit the app to the app stores.
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I don't think they actually care. They wanted to look like they were doing something for the Orange Baby.
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This is non-practical. First of all, for Apple Appstore, there is a China region, and you can register for free and download WeChat as you wish. For Android, there are more options: 1. Side load. 2. Each phone maker pretty much has their own version of app store, just switch region and download, switch back, done.
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Apps can now be banned without a shred of evidence of nefarious activity.
Bad precedent
Bad precedent
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209
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I don't think Apple would be worried about getting tied up in the courts for a while. They have more than enough money to burn, win or lose.
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Sort of amazing that this is all over data collection, and yet Facebook is somehow fine just because it’s in the US.
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Remember, China has zero interest in what most US citizens have to say online.
Who does? A Bad Actor US Government.
But if the citizens are using the Chinese application, that theoretically has 'Chinese spy backdoors' in it, then the US Government can't spy on US citizens easily. China could, but do they care about most US citizens? Maybe high ranking ones and business ones, but you wouldn't use Tik Tok then.
So, close down the foreign apps, force the users onto the US-owned applications.
Which pretty much provides strong evidence that the US-owned applications actually do have these backdoors for the US security services, and maybe more, to hook in and monitor the supposed secure communications. Gotta check up on potential subversives trying to promote democracy!
Conversely, Chinese citizens should use the US apps, but I would imagine they're banned for the same reason.
Who does? A Bad Actor US Government.
But if the citizens are using the Chinese application, that theoretically has 'Chinese spy backdoors' in it, then the US Government can't spy on US citizens easily. China could, but do they care about most US citizens? Maybe high ranking ones and business ones, but you wouldn't use Tik Tok then.
So, close down the foreign apps, force the users onto the US-owned applications.
Which pretty much provides strong evidence that the US-owned applications actually do have these backdoors for the US security services, and maybe more, to hook in and monitor the supposed secure communications. Gotta check up on potential subversives trying to promote democracy!
Conversely, Chinese citizens should use the US apps, but I would imagine they're banned for the same reason.
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Yup.... Right out of the wannabe authoritarian playbook. That's Just like Erdogan trying to ban Youtube and Twitter and Putin forcing Russian social media businesses to sell themselves to loyalists. They all claim it's for national security reason.
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Yeah. In theory. But technology is so intertwined that the whole house of cards falls apart. The US has incredibly "veto"-like power.
On the other hand, if the US starts using it a lot, other countries will start working on reducing those dependencies. That can only hurt US exports.
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Larry's as slow at paying debts as he is, it seems?
Joking aside, I really don't know how I feel about this. My gut-before-coffee reaction is that it's a slippery slope and the first of many little attempts to limit people's ability to easily communicate with large numbers of others except through preferred Zuckerized/Avian platforms. I realize that's silly. Like I said.. gut reaction before coffee.
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I can say this from first hand knowledge, the Chinese Americans or at least the ones I know are very angary with Trump, WeChat is how they talk to there families, this could be a major Hinderance to them.
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Just to be clear, the US doesn’t have any sort of Data Protection and Privacy law, right? And no real mechanism to protect against stalkerware, or location mining of any type?
But the “concerns” are TikTok and WeChat?
Man, those TikTockers really hit a soft spot with the rally troll.
But the “concerns” are TikTok and WeChat?
Man, those TikTockers really hit a soft spot with the rally troll.
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133
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I'm in Canada although I don't use any of these apps but I'm pretty sure that order doesn't apply to us. Trump is not an emperor yet.
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This is nominally about national security, with the huge caveat that the Chinese can buy any data they want about Americans, just like the Feds and the police do. So it's security theatre and really an illegal extension of the Trump campaign.
This is the new 'immigrant caravan', only instead of having to spend pesos, he can get political favors from facebook and contribution from Ellison. No outlay of money required, no grump military camping in Texas for Thanksgiving.
It's pretty blatant corruption really.
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Tick-tock is already banned in a number of important markets India for one. The US is neither the first and will not be the last to do so.
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WeChat could be removed from Google Play and Apple app stores. Not a big deal because WeChat is also offered as an APK file download from Tencent. What's worrying is cutting off network access - does the ruling prevent any US or US-affiliated company from carrying WeChat traffic, essentially blackholing that data? Trump just went thermonuclear, the fallout won't be pretty.
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Funny he put it to take effect after the election. Probably to avoid the backlash of china instantly retaliating in more aggressive ways.
Its all smoke and mirrors. I fucking hate this year.
Its all smoke and mirrors. I fucking hate this year.
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