The Volkswagen Golf TSI: Wolfsburg gains the middle ground

Better cabins, safety systems, and electronics make it a player in the small car game.


Read the whole story

 

[sapphir8]

And of course the legendary German reliability....

/s

 

[Deleted member 192806]

A funny thing happened on the way to the diesel emissions scandal—Volkswagen still sells cars. There are no diesels until they get a clean bill of health, but as VW must rely solely on gas-fired sales in the US right now, the Golf TSI SEL sits squarely in the middle of their lineup globally.

The diesel thing will sting, but I imagine gasoline was their bigger seller anyway.

 

[Tuco]

Is $30K for a Golf is that in the same price range of Civic, Elantra, Focus, etc. or is it much higher?

Me personally was mainly interested in the Golf because I could get it in a diesel.

 

[breze]

Don't knock the timid traffic strategy. There is much less general traffic idiot-ery if you maintain a larger than usual buffer in front. The time lost to people jumping into your lane was never yours in the first place -- they were just going to go a few cars up and jam themselves in anyway, causing everyone in front of you slam on their breaks.

 

[THavoc]

As of July 20th, VW has made a comback after the scandal too:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/20/news/co ... index.html

Global sales of Volkswagen cars and trucks have eked out about a 1% gain in the first five months of the year, despite the scandal. May sales gains were even stronger, a sign that the automaker is starting to put the diesel scandal behind it. Its U.S. sales have been down 7% in the first half of the year, although the United States accounts for only about 5% of its global sales.

 

[MedicinalGoat]

Dear Mazda/Santa,

Please stop Ze Germans: Take the current Mazda3 SGT with AWD from Japan and slap the new Skyactiv 2.5L Turbo from the new CX-9 into it and then sell it in North America. I promise us filthy American pig dogs will buy lots of them.

- A Mazda enthusiast who is either too big and/or embarrassed to be rolling around in a Miata

 

[Boskone]

Tuco[/url]":q6ee6uwd]Is $30K for a Golf is that in the same price range of Civic, Elantra, Focus, etc. or is it much higher?

Me personally was mainly interested in the Golf because I could get it in a diesel.

It's about $6k more than the second-to-highest package (Titanium) on a Focus, list. Dunno about the rest, haven't had any coworkers buy those recently.

 

[mg224]

Tuco[/url]":2igbfomq]Is $30K for a Golf is that in the same price range of Civic, Elantra, Focus, etc. or is it much higher?

Me personally was mainly interested in the Golf because I could get it in a diesel.

The Golf isn't a 30K car, as it isn't just one model. The 2 door starts at 18,495USD and the 4 door at 20,175USD. This particular model is the top of the line and its list price is 27,425.


The Focus starts at 17,225USD (and it's a 4 door).

You'd actually have to examine the spec to work out if the extra cost of a Golf is actually extra. The resale value will probably be higher, as will the cost of servicing (I am extrapolating from experience in UK here, so be warned).

[edit to add in costs of different models]

 

[danchr]

Well, a Golf isn't all that small, or inexpensive, really, if you factor in Danish taxes…

 

[peipas]

Spoiling that performance somewhat is the 6-speed automatic transmission fitted to our test car. It's a traditional automatic with a torque converter, yet it suffers a bit from the same problem as VW's DSG twin-clutch transmission—laggardly throttle response in transitions, especially noticeable during high-traffic situations. It somehow knows when you're waiting to turn left across oncoming traffic (into a driveway, across a busy intersection), because that's when the transmission's balkiness is at its worst.

Is it really the transmission that is the culprit or might it be turbo lag?

My leased 2015 Subaru WRX is the first turbo-equipped car I've had, and while I've appreciated being able to easily enjoy 30+-mpg tooling around with its four-banger, it takes some getting used to for there to be a slight delay when you want some extra pep.

For normal driving it is not a huge issue, but with the A/C on it really takes its power toll from the four cylinders. Fortunately I have a manual transmission so I can allocate some elevated RPMs to spool up the turbo before launch for a left-turn-from-stop situation, but that may not be so easy to counteract with an automatic. Starting from a dead stop with the A/C running without accounting for the turbo lag can result in an excruciatingly slow launch.

 

[foetusinc]

sapphir8[/url]":30gdnt87]And of course the legendary German reliability....

/s

Our '12 Golf has been utterly troublefree over 50k miles. Zero warranty claims.

 

[UnnDunn]

foetusinc[/url]":83x7jwac]

sapphir8[/url]":83x7jwac]And of course the legendary German reliability....

/s

Our '12 Golf has been utterly troublefree over 50k miles. Zero warranty claims.

50k miles of trouble-free driving isn't much to brag about, TBH.

 

[Robb]

In comparison, a new Civic touring loaded with the sensing and everything can be had for about $26K roughly, MSRP may be higher but you can get one in that range, maybe lower. The new civic has quiet a bit of room now too, not sure of anything else compares though. I test drove one hoping the 1.5L turbo 4 would be zippy, but it seemed laggy too. Up around $30, your getting into nicely loaded accord territory.

 

[foetusinc]

UnnDunn[/url]":3ky9svbi]

foetusinc[/url]":3ky9svbi]

sapphir8[/url]":3ky9svbi]And of course the legendary German reliability....

/s

Our '12 Golf has been utterly troublefree over 50k miles. Zero warranty claims.

50k miles of trouble-free driving isn't much to brag about, TBH.

It's more than any of my friends with Subarus or GM products can say.

 

[CraigJ ✅]

I have a 2016 TSI Sportwagen, and I like it a lot. A few things
1. I have the standard TSI (manual)- not the SEL, and mine has a 6.5" screen, not a 5" - I just measured it to be sure. it's 6.4" diagonal. I purchased no option packages.
2. Carplay was a disaster until I got a patch applied in January, now it works great.
3. There is something off about the throttle programming compared to my 2013, my 1999, and every other car I've owned. When starting from a dead stop, sometimes the throttle response isn't consistent, and I end up killing the engine. My wife noticed this as well. I've been driving a stick for over 33 years, and I've killed this car more times than any other car in the last 30 years. I've had this one for 11 months and I've killed the engine way more times that the whole time I had the 2013. There is definitely something odd about the throttle response.
4. The AC is somewhat weak. The AC in my 1997 Nissan blows colder air than this, and the freon charge in that is 19 years old.
5. I only paid $22K for mine.

Overall I would recommend this car. It's very solid, and the TSI is responsive if you put your foot in it. It's not a sports car by any stretch, but it's a good driver.

 

[Captainpuke]

foetusinc[/url]":2a3n2x9y]

UnnDunn[/url]":2a3n2x9y]

foetusinc[/url]":2a3n2x9y]

sapphir8[/url]":2a3n2x9y]And of course the legendary German reliability....

/s

Our '12 Golf has been utterly troublefree over 50k miles. Zero warranty claims.

50k miles of trouble-free driving isn't much to brag about, TBH.

It's more than any of my friends with Subarus or GM products can say.

My anecdotal experience of being part of a Subaru family (out of necessity given the snow) is that in the last 10 Subaru's we have owned none have required any service other than the regular. All of mine have had well over 100k before trade in. Anecdotes are anecdotes.

That being said, consumer reports disagrees with your statement. Subaru typically scores pretty highly on reliability for non-turbo/non-sports models (i.e. BRZ).

 

[IThinkICan]

Isn't supposed to be "BIP II" or is this tech from Men in Black?

"Modular Infotainment Platform II (MIB II)"

 

[CraigJ ✅]

peipas[/url]":1m1qzimx]

Spoiling that performance somewhat is the 6-speed automatic transmission fitted to our test car. It's a traditional automatic with a torque converter, yet it suffers a bit from the same problem as VW's DSG twin-clutch transmission—laggardly throttle response in transitions, especially noticeable during high-traffic situations. It somehow knows when you're waiting to turn left across oncoming traffic (into a driveway, across a busy intersection), because that's when the transmission's balkiness is at its worst.

Is it really the transmission that is the culprit or might it be turbo lag?

My leased 2015 Subaru WRX is the first turbo-equipped car I've had, and while I've appreciated being able to easily enjoy 30+-mpg tooling around with its four-banger, it takes some getting used to for there to be a slight delay when you want some extra pep.

For normal driving it is not a huge issue, but with the A/C on it really takes its power toll from the four cylinders. Fortunately I have a manual transmission so I can allocate some elevated RPMs to spool up the turbo before launch for a left-turn-from-stop situation, but that may not be so easy to counteract with an automatic. Starting from a dead stop with the A/C running without accounting for the turbo lag can result in an excruciatingly slow launch.

It's probably both. The turbo lag is pronounced, and there is a very noticeable power band around 2,500 RPM. I hate automatic transmissions on cars with engines like this. They magnify the lag. A manual is a much better driving experience for the Golf IMO.

 

[Snark218]

foetusinc[/url]":2aab1icp]

UnnDunn[/url]":2aab1icp]

foetusinc[/url]":2aab1icp]

sapphir8[/url]":2aab1icp]And of course the legendary German reliability....

/s

Our '12 Golf has been utterly troublefree over 50k miles. Zero warranty claims.

50k miles of trouble-free driving isn't much to brag about, TBH.

It's more than any of my friends with Subarus or GM products can say.

Aside from the fact that I'm over 60k miles in my Subaru and can say that, the statistics simply don't bear you out. VWs are not reliable cars in comparison to Subaru or Chevrolet, let alone the class leaders in reliability.

 

[photochemsyn]

Diesel is never going to get a clean bill of health for pollution emission (not even counting fossil CO2).

It's a long-chain hydrocarbon, so complete combustion to CO2 is a long slow process, even feeding all the emission gases back through the engine several times.

Sure, you can get complete combustion - but then, you get very low acceleration power characteristics relative to gasoline or electric vehicles. If you do have good acceleration, you're going to get a large amount of unburned hydrocarbon coming out the tailpipe, no matter what.

Diesel cars should be entirely phased out; they're just one step above a coal-fired steam engine car. Even better, do the same with trucks.

 

[Snark218]

UnnDunn[/url]":336g4f0m]

VW's $1,495 Driver Assistance package—our car's sole option aside from the no-cost automatic transmission—is surprisingly comprehensive for a sub-$30,000 small car ($29,740 as tested).

Almost $30 grand for a Golf? And it isn't a GTI? Ha hahahaha!

Oh wait, they're serious. Let me laugh harder. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Show me a loaded Passat for that price and maybe--maybe--we'll talk.

Not sure why you're getting 6 downvotes. That's very steep for a pretty ordinary car with a pretty ordinary level of equipment from a manufacturer that can't seem to figure out how to sell more cars in the US than, say, Mazda.

 

[afidel]

Tuco[/url]":1r57amv6]Is $30K for a Golf is that in the same price range of Civic, Elantra, Focus, etc. or is it much higher?

Me personally was mainly interested in the Golf because I could get it in a diesel.

You can get a Subraru Crosstrek Premium with EyeSight (best ACC in a sub $60k car) for $26k so I'm not sure why you'd go with the Golf unless you live in a city where the 7 inches saved make enough difference to you.

 

[windnwar]

That auto seems to really eat into the mileage, I have a Nissan Juke Nismo, similar curb weight, 1.6 liter engine with similar numbers, bit more horsepower, bit less torque but it has a six speed manual and we average 34mpg in it unless I have it in sport mode. I haven't even bothered with the eco-mode.

At least they finally did away with the 2.5 slow that replaced the former 2.0 slow. VW has had some awfully pitiful base non turbo engines for too long. I had a Jetta 1.8T back in the day and loved it, but it became a mechanical nightmare as it aged. I think VW went through 6 or 7 versions of coil packs before they sorted out that issue, among window regulators that broke and a water pump that would fail and take out your timing belt, that happened to a friend of mine. Pretty much avoided them ever since.

 

[flunk]

This is the most competitive Golf they're put out in years, they finally have a good engine option for the base car. Maybe this review should have mentioned that the Wolfsburg is the top level trim and that base is a lot less than $30,000.

 

[jbee]

afidel[/url]":1e66ish6]

Tuco[/url]":1e66ish6]Is $30K for a Golf is that in the same price range of Civic, Elantra, Focus, etc. or is it much higher?

Me personally was mainly interested in the Golf because I could get it in a diesel.

You can get a Subraru Crosstrek Premium with EyeSight (best ACC in a sub $60k car) for $26k so I'm not sure why you'd go with the Golf unless you live in a city where the 7 inches saved make enough difference to you.

The Subaru is a SUV, the Golf is not. Some do not like SUV. Also, the Golf has the better interior.

 

[Snark218]

Tuco[/url]":2ebkwbex]Is $30K for a Golf is that in the same price range of Civic, Elantra, Focus, etc. or is it much higher?

Me personally was mainly interested in the Golf because I could get it in a diesel.

For this level of equipment in one of those cars, you'd be spending more like $24-26k. I think it's pretty expensive for what you get.

 

[Snark218]

jbee[/url]":1h55r8ya]

afidel[/url]":1h55r8ya]

Tuco[/url]":1h55r8ya]Is $30K for a Golf is that in the same price range of Civic, Elantra, Focus, etc. or is it much higher?

Me personally was mainly interested in the Golf because I could get it in a diesel.

You can get a Subraru Crosstrek Premium with EyeSight (best ACC in a sub $60k car) for $26k so I'm not sure why you'd go with the Golf unless you live in a city where the 7 inches saved make enough difference to you.

The Subaru is a SUV, the Golf is not. Some do not like SUV. Also, the Golf has the better interior.

No, it's not. The Crosstrek is nothing more than an Impreza hatch with a slight suspension lift and some black plastic trim.

And yeah, sure, better interior. Fine. I owned a Jetta Sportwagon and it had a very nice interior. It also had more rattles, squeaks, and buzzes at 30,000 miles than any other car I've ever had. And the soft-touch material was peeling off the knobs. But yeah, it looked great for a few years there.

 

[Captainpuke]

peipas[/url]":2rvg6g94]

Spoiling that performance somewhat is the 6-speed automatic transmission fitted to our test car. It's a traditional automatic with a torque converter, yet it suffers a bit from the same problem as VW's DSG twin-clutch transmission—laggardly throttle response in transitions, especially noticeable during high-traffic situations. It somehow knows when you're waiting to turn left across oncoming traffic (into a driveway, across a busy intersection), because that's when the transmission's balkiness is at its worst.

Is it really the transmission that is the culprit or might it be turbo lag?

My leased 2015 Subaru WRX is the first turbo-equipped car I've had, and while I've appreciated being able to easily enjoy 30+-mpg tooling around with its four-banger, it takes some getting used to for there to be a slight delay when you want some extra pep.

For normal driving it is not a huge issue, but with the A/C on it really takes its power toll from the four cylinders. Fortunately I have a manual transmission so I can allocate some elevated RPMs to spool up the turbo before launch for a left-turn-from-stop situation, but that may not be so easy to counteract with an automatic. Starting from a dead stop with the A/C running without accounting for the turbo lag can result in an excruciatingly slow launch.

If you have the automatic in the Subaru, it's actually a CVT. CVT's are pretty famous for superb mpg but notorious for being completely absent of fun.

The Subaru CVT is actually pretty impressive technically speaking. It's been reliable and lead to fairly substantial mpg increases when it was adopted. Bizarrely, Subaru were early adopters of the tech (not something that can be said of Subaru in general - they are the definition of slow and steady tech-wise in the US), and are confident enough in the tech that they replaced all traditional slushboxes with cvts as far as I know.

That being said, pretty much no one except old people (my Dad!) like driving them.

--edit--
I am an idiot and didn't read the post fully.

 

[jbee]

Snark218[/url]":25qam8u8]

Tuco[/url]":25qam8u8]Is $30K for a Golf is that in the same price range of Civic, Elantra, Focus, etc. or is it much higher?

Me personally was mainly interested in the Golf because I could get it in a diesel.

For this level of equipment in one of those cars, you'd be spending more like $24-26k. I think it's pretty expensive for what you get.

Yes, the Golf is more expensive than e.g. the Focus or the CIvic. In Europe, this is accepted, because the Golf is considered a more "premium" car than the others (reviews usually point out the more premium interior, the better resale value etc.). Not sure how the Golf is seen in the US (I am from Europe).

 

[afidel]

jbee[/url]":2xiy7hy0]

afidel[/url]":2xiy7hy0]

Tuco[/url]":2xiy7hy0]Is $30K for a Golf is that in the same price range of Civic, Elantra, Focus, etc. or is it much higher?

Me personally was mainly interested in the Golf because I could get it in a diesel.

You can get a Subraru Crosstrek Premium with EyeSight (best ACC in a sub $60k car) for $26k so I'm not sure why you'd go with the Golf unless you live in a city where the 7 inches saved make enough difference to you.

The Subaru is a SUV, the Golf is not. Some do not like SUV. Also, the Golf has the better interior.

It's a crossover, but if you don't like it in crossover trim get the Imprezza limited with Eyesight, same basic vehicle just 4 doors instead of 5 and slightly lower to the ground, still only $26k and they throw in leather seats. Still a better value than the Golf IMHO =)

 

[jbee]

Snark218[/url]":bm3jiv1h]

jbee[/url]":bm3jiv1h]

afidel[/url]":bm3jiv1h]

Tuco[/url]":bm3jiv1h]Is $30K for a Golf is that in the same price range of Civic, Elantra, Focus, etc. or is it much higher?

Me personally was mainly interested in the Golf because I could get it in a diesel.

You can get a Subraru Crosstrek Premium with EyeSight (best ACC in a sub $60k car) for $26k so I'm not sure why you'd go with the Golf unless you live in a city where the 7 inches saved make enough difference to you.

The Subaru is a SUV, the Golf is not. Some do not like SUV. Also, the Golf has the better interior.

No, it's not. The Crosstrek is nothing more than an Impreza hatch with a slight suspension lift and some black plastic trim.

And yeah, sure, better interior. Fine. I owned a Jetta Sportwagon and it had a very nice interior. It also had more rattles, squeaks, and buzzes at 30,000 miles than any other car I've ever had. And the soft-touch material was peeling off the knobs. But yeah, it looked great for a few years there.

Subaru themselves advertise it as a "compact SUV" http://www.subaru.de/suv-modelle/kompak ... ru-xv.html

Well, even if it is not a "real" SUV, it definitely LOOKS like one. Like the Nissan Juke. And for some, that is not what they want.

 

[sporkme]

Tuco[/url]":wqxpn2cl]Is $30K for a Golf is that in the same price range of Civic, Elantra, Focus, etc. or is it much higher?

Me personally was mainly interested in the Golf because I could get it in a diesel.

It's quite a bit higher. I was auto shopping just over a year ago and there are more than a few sub-$20K hatchbacks out there. I'd almost call $30K for a Golf "ludicrous".

FWIW, my old 2007 Golf ("Rabbit" that year) was $16K. Nice enough car (had lots of things other econboxes lacked at the time), but holy shit are their dealerships terrible. Pray you never need a warranty repair...

 

[solarium_rider]

What model year was reviewed?

 

[metarugia]

It replaces the gravelly, old, inefficient 2.5L five-cylinder.

As a driver of that gravelly, old, inefficient 2.5L I find this offensive.

Chain-Driven FTW!

 

[THavoc]

sporkme[/url]":e6kgej05]

Tuco[/url]":e6kgej05]Is $30K for a Golf is that in the same price range of Civic, Elantra, Focus, etc. or is it much higher?

Me personally was mainly interested in the Golf because I could get it in a diesel.

It's quite a bit higher. I was auto shopping just over a year ago and there are more than a few sub-$20K hatchbacks out there. I'd almost call $30K for a Golf "ludicrous".

FWIW, my old 2007 Golf ("Rabbit" that year) was $16K. Nice enough car (had lots of things other econboxes lacked at the time), but holy shit are their dealerships terrible. Pray you never need a warranty repair...

I just had some basic work done on my car at the dealership.

They managed to save me a bunch of cash and were easy to work with.

 

[marm0lade]

metarugia[/url]":2js9tf70]

It replaces the gravelly, old, inefficient 2.5L five-cylinder.

As a driver of that gravelly, old, inefficient 2.5L I find this offensive.

Chain-Driven FTW!

The 1.8 and higher TSI engines have been chain driven since 2009.

 

[sporkme]

THavoc[/url]":1ljw1na5]

I just had some basic work done on my car at the dealership.

They managed to save me a bunch of cash and were easy to work with.

...said no one ever.

 

[foetusinc]

jbee[/url]":21xop6oq]

Snark218[/url]":21xop6oq]

Tuco[/url]":21xop6oq]Is $30K for a Golf is that in the same price range of Civic, Elantra, Focus, etc. or is it much higher?

Me personally was mainly interested in the Golf because I could get it in a diesel.

For this level of equipment in one of those cars, you'd be spending more like $24-26k. I think it's pretty expensive for what you get.

Yes, the Golf is more expensive than e.g. the Focus or the CIvic. In Europe, this is accepted, because the Golf is considered a more "premium" car than the others (reviews usually point out the more premium interior, the better resale value etc.). Not sure how the Golf is seen in the US (I am from Europe).

Americans as a rule do not understand this concept at all. Either it's an economy car and must be as cheap as possible, or it's a luxury car and must be faultless. "Premium" middle tier does not compute.

See also; the tendency of Americans to put fake premium badging on their cars, vs the tendency for Europeans to debadge everything.