The Planet Crafter - How hard can Terraforming be?

dferrantino

Ars Legatus Legionis
14,064
Moderator
The early tech trees seemed to fly
I found this round went significantly faster than my first playthrough. Turns out knowing in advance what's actually important is pretty useful. I've intentionally slowed myself down this time around because I don't want to burn straight through the tier without actually playing with the Animals stage.
 
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dferrantino

Ars Legatus Legionis
14,064
Moderator
1000% per animal iirc. Oh, and you can get genetic traits from animals by petting them. So if you see any in the wild, pet them.
5000% per animal with T2 Animal Food. Which, yes, requires Common Larva, Rare Larva, Honey, Beans, and Algae so it's a giant pain in the ass to automate at scale but a couple Ecosystems and a Shredder do a passable job.

Though maybe I've just found a use for all of these Production fuses I keep finding in Wrecks.
 

l0jecars

Ars Praetorian
412
Subscriptor
Played this a while ago before they had things like animals, but just started a new game with a multiplayer game with my daughter. Leaving this here for anyone else who runs into the same problem using the Steam version for local MP.
  • One pc disconnected from Steam (make sure both have the latest patch version; no error msg when they're not.. just a black loading screen)
  • Launch both using the exe directly instead of the Steam shortcut. When you do this you should be able to type in the IP of the host server in MP rather than using an invite.
  • On my network, I had to use the host PC name & DNS as using the ip4 address of the host PC directly didn't work.
Loving the new custom difficulty sliders... let's me fine-tune the survival aspects and terraforming speed to something my daughter enjoys without going full creative/cheat.
 

CuriouslySane

Ars Praefectus
4,161
Subscriptor

Nevarre

Ars Legatus Legionis
24,417
I already started a new/fresh playthrough in anticipation of this dropping. I hadn't played prime in a while since Humble came out. It wasn't clear that they were going to integrate all three, but it's nice that they do.

I know I could just open an old save, but I still wanted to go through the process fresh. (I'm only to lakes now so not endgame yet.)
 

Synthe

Ars Scholae Palatinae
821
Subscriptor++
I actually played the dev branch when they put out the first tests of the Moons update. I started a new game on Humble, and then at the end instead doing normal end-game stuff I had received comms and blueprints to build the interplanetary rocket. At the time, Prime was the only other destination, so I went there and did the full terraformation process (greatly sped up since I already had all of my tech learned, and was able to bring some supplies from Humble). After that was done being terraformed they had released the next phase, to go to their entirely new 3rd planet named Selenea. This was a lot more buggy/unfinished, so I never got far there. Nice to know that they believe they have squashed most of the bugs and finished the content for this 3rd planet/moon, as well as the 4th, a water world named Aqualis.

I plan on starting an entirely new save when this update comes out, as reading patch notes for dev branch it looks like there are many balancing and QoL changes, plus it gives me another try at perfecting my automated packrat home base setup.
 
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Nevarre

Ars Legatus Legionis
24,417
I probably should have checked back in, but I was very happy with the Moons update. I would have even tossed a couple bucks for it to be paid DLC. I'll probably park my current worlds as-is and wait for this one. I suspect it should be much easier if you can call help from your other planets, but who knows if it's all but necessary like aqualis.
 

mogbert

Ars Legatus Legionis
10,129
I just started Humble a couple days ago. I'm almost to the mammal stage now. There are some major differences from when I played the base game. For example, I haven't seen the vehicle before. Doesn't seem super useful. I put some upgrades in it, but I have hardly used it.

I'm at the point where I'm building my "permanent" base. The land is mostly done doing whatever it;s going to do, and I know where all the materials are. I placed my base at the midpoint for all of them. I'm going with an open floor plan. I'm also adding a basement, just in case. I have five 2x2 rooms in a u-shape with the bio-lab (also used for crafting) in the middle. I've replaced all the ceiling and walls with glass. Also filling several areas with Tier 2 lockers. I figure once they are full, anything else can probably be scrapped.

So this time I sort of planned ahead. I didn't do hardly ANY trading until I unlocked the procedural maps (I did need to trade some fuses for some other fuses). I then set up my 8 Nuclear Fusion generators with three power fuses. That is pretty much all the power I should need for the foreseeable future. I only did some bare minimum automation with auto-crafters, mainly for bacteria samples but most importantly for bees and beans to have food whenever I need it. I launched two of each multiplicative rocket. I can do more later if I need to, but two seemed to move stuff forward.

I didn't play much today, but ran a couple of procedural maps to start building up my quartz for a few of the recipes I have (like the new backpack, I don't recall that last time). I'm all set up now to start making drones. The maps dropped enough TT and unneeded fuses to buy the Tier 2 blueprint before I made any of them. Jumping directly to Tier 2 drones will save me a lot of hassle trying to catch and deactivate the Tier 1 drones when I upgrade. I'm also planning on having all my "non-productive" buildings to stay at my original base. I like butterflies and trees, but my second base is a place of production. I'll have material sciences on one side and biology on the other.

Probably the best thing I did was go into it blind. I knew about how it would work based on the base game... but didn't know anything like how high the water would get. What are the limits of the map. Where are all the wrecks and caves. Have I found everything? Probably not. But I found a lot, and felt better stumbling across it than I did when I followed a map.

I do have one question. Someone mentioned a moon update. Like we would be going to the moon (moons?). I figured I'd find out about it when I made the portal, but I got nothing different. I think I saw in one of the unlock screens there is a rocket that wasn't there before. Can anyone give me a basic rundown of what is going on with the moons? No plot spoilers... if there is a plot.
 

swiftdraw

Ars Praefectus
5,255
Subscriptor
I just started Humble a couple days ago. I'm almost to the mammal stage now. There are some major differences from when I played the base game. For example, I haven't seen the vehicle before. Doesn't seem super useful. I put some upgrades in it, but I have hardly used it.
It’s not bad as a mobile oxygen station once you get the upgrade. The problem is, that comes too late to be very useful as I usually have single cell buildings with door doted about the map to handle exactly that.

I do have one question. Someone mentioned a moon update. Like we would be going to the moon (moons?). I figured I'd find out about it when I made the portal, but I got nothing different. I think I saw in one of the unlock screens there is a rocket that wasn't there before. Can anyone give me a basic rundown of what is going on with the moons? No plot spoilers... if there is a plot.
No spoilers needed. Once you get to a certain terraforming level, you can build a rocket pad, and later rocket, to move to a different moon or planet. You can bring some materials with you, which make starting out in a new area easier. I will say though, Aqualis is very resource limited and is intended to be the challenge moon. I would suggest leaving that for last. The portal just sends you to randomly generated wrecks or bases on your current for resource gathering.
 

CuriouslySane

Ars Praefectus
4,161
Subscriptor
The other thing I like about the rover is as a cheat inventory when you're out and about. You can drop it, stuff it full and then use the recall feature back at base to zap it all back for unloading. You can accomplish some of that with drones and a container, but the vehicle is easy to carry around...in your pants, because that's how cars work in this world, I guess.

The moons stuff doesn't unlock until the very end of the initial tree. It's sort of an endgame alternative to extraction. You can GTFO entirely or head off to another moon.

I burned through a bunch of it this week, went back and did Prime (for the third time now) and then Selinea and Aqualis. Things go much more quickly when you can start sourcing from existing bases, but there's still some consideration in what to bring for the initial bootstrapping. The game is still pretty jank when it comes to world textures, lighting and storytelling, but you can see some improvement through the moons stuff. It opens up into a more interesting game overall even if it remains shallow in other terms.

The Toxicity add-on seems worthwhile so far. There's a notable step up in terms of setpieces, and there are some constraints that keep it from being just a rubberstamp of process if you're fresh off the other moons.
 

mogbert

Ars Legatus Legionis
10,129
I didn't get to play today, but last night I finished up my new base. I even moved my vehicle carport, rocket platform, and trade rocket over to the new location and snapped them to my base foundation. I've got 20 Tier2 drones made. I could make a lot more, but everything is already happening instantly (or near abouts). I did run into some trouble at the beginning with setting up a bunch of random containers to supply everything but I eventually found them all.

I have all my current resources completely automated, and a lot of the manufactured items automated as well. T1 and T2 fertilizer, for example. I never needed to automate engines because they give you a few dozen every wreck. But I even have uranium and iridium automated. Once you have drones, it is pretty easy, but I'm ashamed to admit I didn't think about it immediately. I was having the uraninite dropped into a container, then moving it to the crusher. After an hour or so I realized it would be easier to have the crushers set up with a lower priority demand (cause I like to have the containers full first) then set up the outputs for supply. Once I did that, I have all I need. You also have to set up the shredder to handle overflow, but not from everything. It only needs to handle stuff that would clog the outputs of machines, otherwise you spend too much time shredding things that don't need shredded. Things like air canisters clogging the output of the methane/nitrogen machine (I don't have tier 2 yet).

I've launched all the rockets and gotten every upgrade I can. I should probably do more with the terraforming. Honestly, once I set up some of the basics, the rest has been just chugging along without me. I should probably launch some more rockets and such, but the ones I need haven't been unlocked yet. I've bought just about everything I could want and can probably just run to the end of the game at this point, but I want to do more exploring and such. I'm pretty sure I could just mass produce enough things to have the place terraformed in no time, but I'm enjoying my time here.

Oh no! I've been exiled to this planet! Oh wait! It's now a tropical paradise! Where is my coconut drink and lounge chair...
 

Nevarre

Ars Legatus Legionis
24,417
That's kind of how I feel about Humble and Prime. They're both pleasant, you can start on either, and you don't necessarily need to rush at all.

The other 3 planets have different challenges. I found Aqualis to be a bit of a slog just waiting for the events I needed to have happen (capturing resources from meteors mostly.)

I got Toxicity about a week ago. I love the conceit of the planet and it feels satisfying to clean it up but it's a lot more of a logistics issue. You're just dealing with SO MUCH STUFF that has to be transported and stored.
 

mogbert

Ars Legatus Legionis
10,129
Half the fun is creating the perfect storage system! I don't have Toxicity, though.

One of my peeves is when I think I have everything figured out as far as how I'm sorting things, and then I have to stick something else in there. I can either create a bunch of temporary storage and try to move things around, or I can stick it on the end and be reminded of it every time I go get it.

Since I automated my crushers, I don't really need to have three T2 lockers full of dolomite, bauxite, and uraninite outside anymore. But I also don't have a good place I can fit them inside. I'm thinking of just moving them to the basement. Other than creating the rock crusher, I don't think they are used to make anything. They are mostly there if there is a breakdown and I need to manually run stuff through the crushers.

I've improved my automation and mostly gotten it out of the basement. The issue with having it in the basement is it pulls form my stockpiles, which then have to be replenished. What I'm doing now is setting up mini-factories where the overflow is sent to low priority lockers, and then autocrafted from there, and drones take it back to my storage. I keep the factories separated so they can't steal from each other's stockpiles, and I group similar things together. For example, I have one mini-factory just making rods out of the stuff that can make rods. And since it is doing it with all the overflow, it doesn't take away from my storage. If I had thrown that in the basement, it would have taken ALL of my iridium and turned it into rods and I wouldn't have had any iridium until the rods were full. This lets me work around that.

Also, since I'm going to have a bunch of factories using some of the rarer materials, I doubled the extractors getting uraninite, and then ran into another trouble. It was going to take a while before the second crusher would start receiving the materials because they were all going into the first crusher. And since the crushers work a LITTLE faster than the extractors, it just wasn't efficient to wait. So instead I dropped a production fuse on the extractors so they would work a little FASTER than the crushers. This isn't Satisfactory, I'm not being judged by my efficiency (and I don't have a splitter). That and dropping some stockpile meant I doubled my production.

And finally, I found a LITTLE bonus. I've automated my mutagens, but T4 takes two T1 mutagens to make, which means it is made twice as slow. And I didn't feel like doubling my mutagen production as that would be annoying and would become redundant once I caught up. So I wanted a ready supply of both common larva and mutagen, and I realized you can throw the butterfly larva in the recycler! I have a few larva farms around the map (where it tells you that certain larva spawn after the second map info rocket, though I may have messed one up, not sure if it is above or below ground). Anyway, they have gotten me 10 of each of the larva and rather than shredding the extras, I made a small box for the overflow to drop into and then I throw them through the recycler and I get a ton of common larva and t1 mutagen! That is helping kick start the production lines.

At this point there is little reason to do the wrecks. I could probably run them for more fuses and TT. Though I've found an area that spawns butterfly larva I can sell for 4500 tt, so technically I could have as much as I want without doing wrecks.

I'm running with 30 drones now. Once I started setting up my factories they began getting a little behind so I gave them some friends to help.
 

Nevarre

Ars Legatus Legionis
24,417
One suggestion since you like automation, is to set up some very simple autocrafters that produce something basic but sellable, and just have the them go into auto-launching trade rockets. I'm already way past being TT limited, but since you are playing on a really long time scale, 150TT for free every trip. Obviously there are ways to speed up efficiency but assume the basic 10 minute round trip speed and it takes a few minutes to load them, you're still getting ~5 trips per hour of play. You want to be chill and enjoy the game across the other planets and those hours will add up. Free money, and I don't even worry about how efficient the trade is because you're just not all that constrained on TT with one very minor exception (one of the optional endings.)
 

CuriouslySane

Ars Praefectus
4,161
Subscriptor
I got Toxicity about a week ago. I love the conceit of the planet and it feels satisfying to clean it up but it's a lot more of a logistics issue. You're just dealing with SO MUCH STUFF that has to be transported and stored.
The experimental patch notes mention that drones will be able to pick up goo items from the ground which should close the loop on explosives not being very useful since you still have to go around and pick up all the individual bits after.
 

CuriouslySane

Ars Praefectus
4,161
Subscriptor
One suggestion since you like automation, is to set up some very simple autocrafters that produce something basic but sellable, and just have the them go into auto-launching trade rockets. I'm already way past being TT limited, but since you are playing on a really long time scale, 150TT for free every trip. Obviously there are ways to speed up efficiency but assume the basic 10 minute round trip speed and it takes a few minutes to load them, you're still getting ~5 trips per hour of play. You want to be chill and enjoy the game across the other planets and those hours will add up. Free money, and I don't even worry about how efficient the trade is because you're just not all that constrained on TT with one very minor exception (one of the optional endings.)
I wish they had an option to turn off the dings for those results. It's hard to pay attention to important stuff when you're getting an alert every five minutes from an automated sale.
 

mogbert

Ars Legatus Legionis
10,129
I did the automated sales the first time I played the game, and I just didn't see the point. Once you start finding fuses and TT in chests, then the paltry sum you get through automation isn't worth it. Once you get the wrecks, then that automation is completely wasted.

However, the other automation, to make sure that whatever part you need is always available, and replaced as soon as you use it, that is going strong. The biggest annoyance is not really being able to split the materials. In satisfactory terms, you are stuck using manifolds constantly. I could manage it (better than I am) by using the smaller chests so they get full quicker, but I really like using the large lockers because then you can replace things immediately and can have the locker fill back up later. It's like a buffer in case I need to grab 16 of something, for example. It can send the 8 it has buffering in the autocrafter, then can instantly pull the materials it needs for the next 8 and I'm restocked. The rest can refill in the background. Although I guess you could say the storage itself is a buffer, so this is closer to triple buffering. I might have over engineered it.

Either way, it is working, albeit a bit slowly as sometimes you have to wait for another item to fill storage before the next item will start crafting. I can easily drop material for it to make a bunch right away, so I don't really need it that much.

I found that I'm still getting new specific blueprints (not the general ones, I've decoded everything from them) from the wrecks, so I do have to keep running them for a bit longer. Also, I got a recipe that is something I needed to start making my animal stuff. Going to make some giant glowing something-or-others!
 

dferrantino

Ars Legatus Legionis
14,064
Moderator
I just started up a Toxicity run. Probably 25~30 hours in, still haven't decided if I like the way the map is segmented. The mostly-forced rail travel pretty heavily incentivizes not creating a megabase (or at minimum, moving shop to the Research Center shortly after you get there), which is really tough when you're still in the portion of the game where you're resource-limited. Currently throttled by Explosive Powder and Fertilizer, which means I'm spending a ton of time just shuttling back to my Biolab in the north.

The Purification mechanic is neat, but I'm realizing that it's only there to feed back on itself. So that's a pretty solid Meh.
 

dferrantino

Ars Legatus Legionis
14,064
Moderator
lol, well that's a fun way to learn that I've hit the Larva stage

1771950313339.png
 
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Nevarre

Ars Legatus Legionis
24,417
The Purification mechanic is neat, but I'm realizing that it's only there to feed back on itself. So that's a pretty solid Meh.

Partially. In late stages there are a few useful things to do with the by-products (other than loop back in to anti-pollution efforts) but mostly it's intended to create a logistics problem.

The volume of material reclaimed is massive. Some of it is non-replenishing, so you gotta figure out if you want to store it, how much you want to store, where you want to store it, etc.
 

dferrantino

Ars Legatus Legionis
14,064
Moderator
Finished Toxicity and moved on to the moons. They're both gorgeous, and feel wonderful to play given I've already unlocked everything, though I can imagine Aqualis especially would be a gigantic pain in the ass if you attempted to start fresh. That said, the bonuses on Oxygen and Animals are still bonkers strong and make short work of these planets. As long as you come to the planet prepared the first couple MTi (and due to the scaling, the next 6 magnitudes of SysTi) are an absolute cakewalk.
 
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dferrantino

Ars Legatus Legionis
14,064
Moderator
The volume of material reclaimed is massive. Some of it is non-replenishing, so you gotta figure out if you want to store it, how much you want to store, where you want to store it, etc.
They're non-replenishing, but by the end of the chain you can either harvest or craft everything, and they're still really only useful to get the two Extraction cutscenes so there's zero motivation to ship any of those materials (or their products) to other planets. The only items that are useful to export are the Detoxo Tree Seed and Species 9, which are both entirely cosmetic. Contrast that with the two Moons - released before Toxicity - which give you new tiers of buildables and consumables, a max-multiplier Fish or Frog egg, and recipes for (OR MINEABLE!) colored Quartz.

I get that the three planets are meant to be self-contained, start-from-scratch experiences but given that Interplanetary travel was already a thing it would have made way more sense for them to just add an item or two that carries over (and retro one into Prime and Humble). Otherwise the only reason for folks to travel to one of the major planets after completing whichever they started on is for more lore and a slight mechanics tweak. Even the SysTi stuff is designed to be completed before you're done with 3 planets. Humble's now in an even worse spot than Toxicity in that regard for a whole bunch of reasons.
 
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