A customized mid-motor and Shimano's new Cues components are a winning combination.
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The perfect commuter bike? Velotric’s Discover 3 makes its case.
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Software switching between legal classes is peculiar. Is there any other situation where we would accept that? Would we accept say software unlocking of emissions restrictions on a motor vehicle? Or software unlocking of fully automatic on a firearm?
A software lock is nothing but a pinkie promise.
A software lock is nothing but a pinkie promise.
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Most performance cars with a "sport" or "track" mode, and many automatics with a choice of shift points, would struggle to hit their homologation numbers for emissions if they did the test cycle with the "go fast" maps enabled. If we take a post-Dieselgate attitude, this is 'kinda illegal' in that it's a switch which makes you unable to hit the numbers, but we also accept that the numbers are to some degree made up anyway.
More directly legally, lots of European bikes can be flashed to "A2" (intermediate license) power outputs and are sold as "A2" bikes, which unrestricted would be forbidden on an intermediate license. Derestricting these is an ECU re-flash (or sometimes an OBD magic word) - but this is actually rather more complicated a process than the 90s and early 00s way, which was a restrictor plate on the throttle intake, or a physical travel stop on the throttle at (say) 70% - both of which are easily added and removed by a young petrolhead with a socket set.
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It's almost to the point where we need one of those comparison articles. $2,000 is a big spend for some folks looking to bike to work. Something like "Best e-bikes under $1,000" "Best $1,000-$2,000" "Best 'Price-is-no-object' e-Bike"
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The stakes are not nearly as high with a bicycle as they are with your other examples. If it's that important to a locality to ban, say, Class 3 (and actually enforce the ban) then they can ban software unlocks and try and enforce that too. My state is currently working towards restricting (requiring registration and a drivers license to operate) e-bikes faster than Class 3, so the pinkie promise works fine here.
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For a commuter bike, I would prefer the chain to be covered, to avoid dirt and damage to trousers, and also because commuter bikes do have to stay outside in the rain (eg when shopping), and an open chain and gear system will suffer quicker from dirt and corrosion.
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I really hope Shimano stays committed to the CUEs system. As someone who retrofits old bikes the CUEs system is great. It is a great way to get a usable 1x setup on old bikes and you can easily scale how nice of system you get based on budget.
I converted my wife's bike from a crappy 3x Altus setup to a 1x9 CUEs setup for under $200 and it made that bike ride like a significantly more expensive bike.
I converted my wife's bike from a crappy 3x Altus setup to a 1x9 CUEs setup for under $200 and it made that bike ride like a significantly more expensive bike.
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As someone who bike commutes to work, I have to wonder WTF these PMs are thinking:
- Specing these step-through city-bikes with >=2.5"+ tires. Like seriously. No one is taking these on mud trails, or single track, and probably not even chipped limestone rails-trails. All these step-through e-bikes would be much more fun to ride with smaller tires. You'd also see fewer people walking them when the battery runs out. It is just extra mass and tire resistance that is harder to pedal (or eats the battery faster) overcoming
- And a suspension fork, on a city bike with 2.5" tires? That is nothing more than increasing costs while increasing the need for regular maintenance by the user (who almost certainly isn't going to follow the recommended service intervals). It also adds a lot of extra mass to have to pedal around.
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https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQku2TIfOQ2pMKCqJruyKNSjJ0HXp9waUJ8DQ&s
This is a typical ebike that we use in China. I had one that cost $900usd, 72v-55w. I had a 360km range with a cruising speed of 75kph (45mph+). The average cost of a new ebike here used by most people is about $400usd for 60v-20w (160km range) In all but the hilliest cities like Seattle and San Francisco, one of these would be a great commuter for just about anyone.
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Under EU and US law that is not an ebike--it is a motorcycle. To be a moped or ebike it has to have pedals.
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These all have auxiliary pedals as of 8 years ago. They can no longer be licensed without them. They also have headlights and horns and are completely street legal.
Here is an updated photo of a group of rental ebikes ready to go....The pedal is clearly visible in this picture. It costs about $2usd to rent one for the day.
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Oh? The one pictured didn't look like it. Of course--most cheap "ebikes" only have what in US/EU law are compliance-pedals that no one uses, ergo they're legally electric motorcycles anyway.
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Looks ok for a commuter bike, those who worry about the chain being exposed, have probably not ridden bicycles much. The biggest upgrade would be tyres and tubes that are as puncture resistant as possible. The throttle is handy in wet weather when wearing waterproofs, though tempting to not give up. The weight means garage/yard storage only. your employer will have to have secure bike storage as thefts are now so easy with battery angle grinders costing so little.
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The pedals would never be used for anything but an emergency. Regardless, no matter what you call it, it's much cheaper than the U.S. ebikes I've seen on the web and it beats the pants off a U.S. ebike as a functional transportation vehicle.
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Yea. That is legally a motorcycle in every market other than China. Looking at the speed alone--even insane USA anything-goes ebike law that would only be legal on city streets, with a motorcycle license.
It isn't a bicycle so much as an electric Vespa.
It is much cheaper than ebikes--because it is easier to build a twist-throttle motorcycle engine than a torque-sensing assist-only motor system. The later is what an ebike is, the former is what an electric motorcycle is. Amazon and AliExpress are dominated by "ebikes" that are actually electric motorcycles--and parents buy them for kids...causing authorities unable to enforce badly written law to react by just banning all of them, or locking them all behind a motorcycle license.
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I spent several hours yesterday researching this type of bike and man is it hard to find the exact set of parameters that I'm looking for.
My ideal commuter bike would be:
Upright and step through
Under 50 lbs
Belt drive not chain
Able to handle hills without needing to stand.
Needs to look like a bike, not have dinky little tires with a super tall seatpost and handlebars
Even if I don't care about price at all, I've found there's pretty much no bikes that fit this set of criteria. There's a few pretty lightweight e bikes that are full carbon fiber, but they're not upright. Some are class one only and don't have enough oompf to get you up a hill. Others are close to my arbitrary weight limit and I'm willing to stretch it a bit, but then I realize that the listed weight doesn't include the battery, which would add an extra 5-10lbs.
It's actually shocking how these bikes advertise their weights. Frequently it's buried in the spec sheets. They'll gladly show how much weight it can handle (up to 300lbs, etc), but you have to use ctrl+f on the page to find the weight buried 3 accordion menus deep.
Long story short, I'm most interested in the Vvolt Centauri II, but I've got to wait on the next round of production before biting the bullet.
Also, I have to pray that I like it, because most of these bikes have a return policy that ends with you spending a couple hundred on restocking and shipping fees.
My ideal commuter bike would be:
Upright and step through
Under 50 lbs
Belt drive not chain
Able to handle hills without needing to stand.
Needs to look like a bike, not have dinky little tires with a super tall seatpost and handlebars
Even if I don't care about price at all, I've found there's pretty much no bikes that fit this set of criteria. There's a few pretty lightweight e bikes that are full carbon fiber, but they're not upright. Some are class one only and don't have enough oompf to get you up a hill. Others are close to my arbitrary weight limit and I'm willing to stretch it a bit, but then I realize that the listed weight doesn't include the battery, which would add an extra 5-10lbs.
It's actually shocking how these bikes advertise their weights. Frequently it's buried in the spec sheets. They'll gladly show how much weight it can handle (up to 300lbs, etc), but you have to use ctrl+f on the page to find the weight buried 3 accordion menus deep.
Long story short, I'm most interested in the Vvolt Centauri II, but I've got to wait on the next round of production before biting the bullet.
Also, I have to pray that I like it, because most of these bikes have a return policy that ends with you spending a couple hundred on restocking and shipping fees.
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I agree. Fairly fat tyres and a suspension fork on top of a shock-absorbing seatpost and cushioned saddle seems really overkill for something that's meant to stick to paved roads. Maybe it's nice for the occasional cobbles/setts or truly broken tarmac, but I'd rather save weight and money by foregoing at least the front suspension.
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Hot take: Any 'perfect' commuter bike candidate has to have a Gates belt drive, and no candidate would have an uncovered chain. Commenter who says "anyone who is worried by an uncovered chain probably doesn't ride bikes a lot." --lol
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The Canyon Citylite:ON checks all your boxes. Bosch motor (max 600 W power, 75 Nm torque) which should handle any hill, Gates belt drive with a Shimano Nexus gear hub, and a step-through variant that weighs 21.5 kg (~47 lb) fully equipped with mudguards, a rear rack and a kickstand. However, I suspect you're in the USA, where it is not available...
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I don’t understand the need for the gears at all. The ev city bikes don’t have them, and they’re fine. EV cars don’t have them either.
It’s one of the perks of electric, in my mind, fewer parts. Derailleurs are the worst part of bicycles imo.
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I commute all four seasons with an uncovered chain and you can verify that by looking at the right leg of every pair of pants I own! I'm ok with it but if I ever replace this bike I'm not repeating my mistake.
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Yes, any situation where it is recognized that the intent of the rules, created by monopolistic powers, is to create confusion in order to support their monopoly and not to solve any social issue.
In this case, euphemistically named "People for Bikes" (more aptly named "People for Cars") created and pushed the rules based on automobile industry support and lobbying.
There are already laws prohibiting the operation of any device in a dangerous manner throughout the USA.
The ebike classes are non-sensical and serve no purpose. Any teenager on any day will get on an electric motorcycle and ride at 40 mph down the mixed use path designated as 15 mph. These "laws" have no impact on that.
They only serve to create confusion about where you can ride your ebike, which confusion is designed to steer people away from replacing their car with an ebike.
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It isn't a compromise or elegant hack. In California and many other states a bike that can be switched between classes is not legal at all. This is not a grey area. The bike must have a permanent label indicating its class, and it cannot simply change classes with software. The office of the California attorney general has recently been going after these guys.
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Nothing to add other than my family has the Velotric Packer and balustrade add-on. It's been awesome being able to bike our son to school!
I have the Aventon Pace 4 and greatly prefer that ride comfort, but that's like comparing a sporty sedan to a hulking station wagon.
I have the Aventon Pace 4 and greatly prefer that ride comfort, but that's like comparing a sporty sedan to a hulking station wagon.
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A motorcycle is only allowed on roads.
In Europe, e-bike assist is limited to 25km to be able to safely share bike lanes with "normal" bikes and electric scooters.
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If there is two things people I know want in bikes they ride to work is zero annoyance and for it to be foldable because workplaces don't tend tto have places to store a bike, this is neither of those things. You do not wantt to be riding a bike that annoys you early in the money while you are not even fully awake yet. Also do not listen tto music or wear headphones, airbuds or whatever while riding a bike to work, distractions on the road kill people.
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Here the "ebikes" are only supposed to be on the road in the "bike" lanes, but just as often they are on the sidewalks and as in most other situations no one cares or respects the law. My whole reason for joining this particular conversation is commonly seeing those "ebikes" in the U.S. for $15,000 while the "ebikes" used here are a tiny fraction of that and yet are so much more useful.....Those of you in the states and Europe are being seriously ripped off.
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You're comparing apples and 747s.
You're talking about twist-throttle electric motorcycles. Which are extremely easy and cheap to make--and have been for many years.
You're comparing them with pedal-assist ebikes with torque-sensing drive-units, that only apply power in proportion to the effort of the person peddling it, that are quite complex and hard to make.
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I mean it's obviously lower stakes than a fully automatic weapon but I'm not sure it's lower stakes than an emission restriction.
But there are lots of other examples, for instance I don't think the EU would even let you sell a vacuum cleaner that could be software unlocked past the 900W legal limit.
As for banning software unlocks - c'mon get real.
Motorcycles are the most dangerous vehicle class to pedestrians on a per vehicle-mile basis. Unlocked ebikes in many cases are de-facto motorcycles.
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Some people would violate the law anyway so lets make it really easy to violate the law?
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You can buy a nice electric moped in Europe and the US too, probably not as cheaply as in China but still for much less than a high-end e-bike. Compared to an e-bike, it's much heavier and more powerful, so (unlike an e-bike) it requires a license plate, driver's license, and civil liability insurance, it's not allowed on cycle paths and on public transportation that accepts bikes (trains, metros and so on)... It's quite a different sort of vehicle, and not really a more useful one for many use cases.
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American e-bike discourse is completely poisoned by one weird fact: there are way more DUI guys than you'd think, none of them can get insurance, and they all desperately want a fast, dangerous vehicle that they can get away with riding without a license and insurance.
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Vader_NOOOOO.gif
This Citylite:ON really does look ideal. Looking at what's available in the US, there's a belt drive Precede:ON Comfort 7 that's 60lbs and a Precede:ON Comfort 5 chain drive that's 50lbs. It seems like there's a real possibility the belt drive directly contradicts the weight that I'm after...
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Some do, but then you have a battery hanging out on a post.
The poles need to be at least a little thicker to be safe at 28 mph, with the bike heavier due to battery and motor, etc.
See 1st and 7th bikes here:
https://ebikeexpert.com.au/best-electric-cruiser-bikes-australia/
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I live in a place where there are a lot of hills. Like, a lot.
You would quickly understand why gears is important here.
Typical (and legal!) ebikes are not able to get up there on their own without pedaling.
Now add towing a trailer with two kids for good times.
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You can't just throw out a juicy fact like that and not provide a source. And I don't mean that as a criticism but as a legitimate interest. I am having trouble even finding numbers on pedestrian deaths attributed to motorcycles let alone a "per km travelled metric". What I did find was this: Paper from 2005. It is a good study but dated and it does show a slightly higher per mile fatality rate from motorcycles compared to light-vehicles especially for children (2x higher compared to trucks). But we all know that "light-vehicles" (trucks) have gotten a lot worse since 2005. So if you have a more recent source, I'd love to see it.
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