The Means siblings, darlings of MAHA, both out of the Trump admin—for now

Casey Means missed hearing on surgeon general nomination after going into labor.

See full article...

 

[xPutNameHerex]

You do know you graduate med school BEFORE residency, right? It's like an architect or engineer going into the licensing development program. You have your degree, now you're learning how to be a professional in your field in order to get a license to practice on your own.

P.S. Same thing for a journeyman electrician or plumber.

The person you are quoting does say she graduated medical school, not her residency program.

 

[scpATL4now]

The funny thing there is that clowns ARE professionals. They train HARD at their trade and craft.

These fuckwits are morons, imbeciles and idiots faking their way though it. Clowns make people laugh. These fucktards destroy people's lives.

HUGE difference, and even insulting to clowns.

I prefer the term grifters

 

[Tam-Lin]

What the actual fuck. You think we've hit rock bottom, but no, there's no floor. I didn't think you could come up with someone worse than RFKJr, but no, here we are.

 

[Gnafu the Great]

I don't trust anyone who seriously thinks fluoride is bad and isn't just quoting Dr. Strangelove for fun.

 

[aleph_nought]

If this shit happened in a third world country, you'd be seeing thousands of people on the streets protesting and maybe rioting.

America is a third world country! Siblings with zero qualifications other than being MAGA fellow grifters getting cabinet and top positions, only to use those positions to enrich themselves.

 

[forkloo]

Beth has taken the gloves off and I am here for it.

Beth is absolutely crushing it. Her reporting and work has been great.

 

[wagnerrp]

It's driving us back two centuries to when you could legitimately be a polyscientist and make meaningful contributions to multiple disparate fields.

While I admit to being a polyscientist, medicine isn't one of them.

That's great. Have you made meaningful contributions? You can call yourself whatever you want, but other people won't.

And I do value my doctors' advice. But I am also mindful that for all their training, each doctor is a human just like you and me: each of us knows only what we know at a given point in time, a pitifully partial sum of our education, our experience, and our current researches.

There's a saying, "trust but verify". Trust that one doctor will give their honest, professional, learned opinion, but it's just an educated opinion. Trust that when they find themselves outside their expertise, they will refer you to an appropriate specialist. There's a reason they call it "practicing", because you're supposed to understand that you don't know everything. By all means, get a second opinion. Get a third opinion. Particularly for things that may have life changing consequences. Don't consider that your opinion counts as one of those for an acute symptom.

For a chronic symptom, one that you've lived with for years, one that you've spent years investigating to learn more about yourself, then maybe your opinion is insightful. That's years of investigation and study, not just half an hour on WebMD.

For instance, here in the US medical schools have not traditionally included nutrition in their training of Medical Doctors. Some might have a cursory one quarter 3-hour course, or they might not. Either way, whatever a given MD might know of nutrition, be it little or a lot, is generally whatever they have deigned to educate themselves since medical school.

Why would they? That's what an RD (dietician) is for.

From my personal experience, FDA Drug Labels can be quite informative as to a given drug's contraindications, its possible side effects, and its adverse interactions with other drugs. But -- again from personal experience -- while a given doctor might have read the labels once-upon-a-time, that doesn't mean he or she has re-read them recently and has them fresh in their mind. So who is responsible? Who is the patient's advocate?

In this example, an RPh (pharmacist). They're the backstop to double check any prescribed medications for contraindications.

 

[wagnerrp]

If this shit happened in a third world country, you'd be seeing thousands of people on the streets protesting and maybe rioting.

Err... there are thousands of people protesting in the streets. Millions even.

 

[vought1221]

Err... there are thousands of people protesting in the streets. Millions even.

7-8 Million two weekends ago, not that you’d know if you only watched national news.

Free press isn’t a thing when profit rules above all.

 

[SubWoofer2]

It's sad that the US is now more corrupt than the USSR was.

It's a success criterion for The Third Cold War, the one that Putin won.

There was the First and Second Cold Wars, leading up to the silly declared "End of History" when meantime everyone knows the system needs an enemy, if it doesn't have one it will invent one, but importantly as a marker, the Berlin Wall came down). Then there was the Interregnum, where the Cold War lived in Putin's head in a taxi in Moscow and nowhere else. Then there was the Third Cold War, where Putin gamed the US and Trump to the point where the categories "Trump" and "Agent in place" could not be meaningfully separated.

And now we have Project 2025. End game well played, Mr Putin!

 

[Nakamalkat]

That prompted the idle curious thought: how on earth did they settle on that specific figure? Why not, say, 180 days? Or 90? Why 130?

Now that I think about it, 130 days is pretty close to the halfway point between those two (135 days).... could it have been a compromise figure?

I had a very quick look on Wikipedia and the 130 days in the maximum number of days an SGE can work in any one year. So it's not like an SGE starts on a given date and has to stop 130 days later, more like they start on a given date and every day they actually work is counted against the 130.

130 would be 26 five-day work weeks. Or half a year - equivalent to your 180.

 

[p______x]

You do know you graduate med school BEFORE residency, right? It's like an architect or engineer going into the licensing development program. You have your degree, now you're learning how to be a professional in your field in order to get a license to practice on your own.

P.S. Same thing for a journeyman electrician or plumber.

I do know as I did both (plus fellowship) without dropping out for bogus reasons. I also served as admin chief resident so I'm quite familiar with how remediation discussions work. When someone's 90% through a grueling residency, toughing it out for 6 more months, or even switching programs is much more logical than deciding to drop out so then being dependent on a gig monetizing on peoples mistrust in medicine.

But I suspect you were quoting the wrong post

 

[DNA_Doc]

On behalf of the clown community, I very much resent this statement.
Clowns ARE professionals.

Was about to write the same thing. I do a clown thing on the side. We are definitely professionals.

 

[somechar]

I have chosen an anonymous 'nym. You have not, for which you have my respect. Still, you do not know who I am or what I have done, or where. Suffice that these do not relate to medicine.

"Trust me, I know what I'm talking about, except that I know nothing about this topic."

 

[KeyboardWeeb]

encourages health-conscious readers to avoid processed foods, seed oils, fragrances, a variety of home care products, fluoride, unfiltered water, bananas (when eaten alone), receipt paper, and birth control pills.

I like how the list starts with something reasonable like processed foods. Then, seed oils? Well, they're pretty high in fat usually, so, ok. Fragrances? So, perfume? Huh? And then it goes off the deep end. The question is: did Beth order it that way, or does the book order it that way to try and ease people into the crazy? That's a common tactic for nutters after all, so it would not be surprising.

 

[Syphilitic]

*residency drop out. She did finish med school. That said, when someone leaves a 5-year surgical residency 6 months before graduation because they are "disappointed in medicine" you know that they wouldn't have been allowed to graduate.

She left an ENT residency in her second year, in her last year due to "unmanageable anxiety" (or something like that), per New York Times. The whole "disappointment with allopathic medicine" persona was adopted later on. The link is to yesterday's opinion piece, but they've reported the same previously.

 

[p______x]

She left an ENT residency not long into her second year, due to "issues with anxiety" (or something like that), per New York Times. The whole "disappoint with allopathic medicine" persona was adopted later on.

"After graduating from medical school, Means started a residency in the Department of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery of Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU) with the aim of becoming an ENT surgeon.[10] Six months before the end of the five-year program, she dropped out of her surgical residency,[7] due to stress and having become disillusioned with healthcare in the United States.[7][11][12][13][14] During her studies, she supported research at New York University and OHSU.[15]"

^Wikipedia. Source is LA Times.

 

[MST2.021K]

And now we have Project 2025. End game well played, Mr Putin!

Russians do like their chess; perhaps too much methinks.

 

[Syphilitic]

"After graduating from medical school, Means started a residency in the Department of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery of Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU) with the aim of becoming an ENT surgeon.[10] Six months before the end of the five-year program, she dropped out of her surgical residency,[7] due to stress and having become disillusioned with healthcare in the United States.[7][11][12][13][14] During her studies, she supported research at New York University and OHSU.[15]"

^Wikipedia. Source is LA Times.

Fuzzy details - another magaland hallmark. But seems like you're correct, and she left during her final year.
I've read varying accounts. Like with the timing of her "disillusionment with Western medicine,", there seem to be multiple stories out there. The later drop out time currently in Wikipedia comes from a May 2025 article in LA Times, quoting the residency program director.
The Wikipedia article also begins with, "Her medical license has been inactive since the beginning of 2024," but that same LA Times article links to Oregon Medical Board showing she only held a training license during residency, which expired in 2019. She was never licensed to practice medicine outside her training program.

 

[lwdj905]

That prompted the idle curious thought: how on earth did they settle on that specific figure? Why not, say, 180 days? Or 90? Why 130?

Now that I think about it, 130 days is pretty close to the halfway point between those two (135 days).... could it have been a compromise figure?

SGE status has been revised and revisited a few times since Kennedy when they were arguing that "Half-Days should count as Full-Days". In 1962 they were worried about Hatch Act violations in determining employment status for "Consultants".
OPM followed that interpretation until 1994 when they ditched the Federal Personnel Manual and Congress amended US 18 SubSec 203/205 to change the pay from a daily rate to hourly for Consultants. (This was also around the time Clinton was laying the groundwork for the reductions in Federal Workforce that were implimented during his 2nd Term. A few outsiders to examine how to effectively downsize without doing short/long-term damage to Institutions.)

The theory of SGE was to bring in area expertise to address a short-term concern and backfill with a knowledge base through normal hiring procedures. It's been about 20 years since DoD went to DoJ and asked for a better definition and terms for "SGE".

 

[moddrift]

"Calley, for instance, is an entrepreneur..."

No. He's a grifter. A con man. A thief. A liar.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

So MAHA has failed its own Means testing?

 

[p______x]

I've read varying accounts. The Wikipedia article also begins with, "Her medical license has been inactive since the beginning of 2024," but everything that I have read says that she never held a medical license in any state.

FYI, this is all totally public info and one cannot be a resident without a license so it's simple. Where people get tripped up is a postgraduate license allows one to practice medicine/surgery under supervision (i.e. in a resident program), vs having a license to practice medicine/surgery independently.

Her medical license is "Inactive" (which I interpret she could reactivate), but has not expired yet (expiry date is end of this year).

Like with the timing of her "disillusionment" with Western medicine story, there seem to be multiple stories out there. The much later drop out time currently shown in Wikipedia comes from a May 8, 2025 article in LA Times by Jenny Jarvie, quoting a former department chair.

Per official records, she completed 1 year of internship + 3 full years of surgical residency and then 3 more months into her fourth/last year. So per this, she had 9 months left.
https://omb.oregon.gov/Clients/ORMB/Public/VerificationDetails.aspx?EntityID=1530903


If the NYT really couldn't get this right, they are even more worthless than I thought they've become.


edit: about disillusionment: if someone drops out of residency during which most US grads further accumulate significant student debt interest, the option of toughing it out for 9 more months and go from a $60K±5K/yr salary (that was the standard rate in 2018) to a ~$350K/yr salary (probably low ball for an ENT) vs. dropping and and have no steady income? She's either independently wealthy (which would explain her brothers mega jerk attitude toward poverty) or she was a huge financial crunch, desperate to make a buck.

Surgical residents usually get disillusioned by the surgical approach to healthcare, not by "western medicine".

 

[Syphilitic]

Your screenshot included only a portion of the page. "She was never licensed, outside of her training program."

FYI, this is all totally public info and one cannot be a resident without a license so it's simple. Where people get tripped up is a postgraduate license allows one to practice medicine/surgery under supervision (i.e. in a resident program), vs having a license to practice medicine/surgery independently.

Her medical license is "Inactive" (which I interpret she could reactivate), but has not expired yet (expiry date is end of this year).

Per official records, she completed 1 year of internship + 3 full years of surgical residency and then 3 more months into her fourth/last year. So per this, she had 9 months left.
https://omb.oregon.gov/Clients/ORMB/Public/VerificationDetails.aspx?EntityID=1530903


If the NYT really couldn't get this right, they are even more worthless than I thought they've become.


edit: about disillusionment: if someone drops out of residency during which most US grads further accumulate significant student debt interest, the option of toughing it out for 9 more months and go from a $60K±5K/yr salary (that was the standard rate in 2018) to a ~$350K/yr salary (probably low ball for an ENT) vs. dropping and and have no steady income? She's either independently wealthy (which would explain her brothers mega jerk attitude toward poverty) or she was a huge financial crunch, desperate to make a buck.

Surgical residents usually get disillusioned by the surgical approach to healthcare, not by "western medicine".

Your screenshot included only a portion of that page.

I understand the difference - been there, done that.

 

[sword_9mm]

It’s just amazing what the United States has turned into in such a short time.

Short?

1864 to now. That ain't short.

Well I guess in geological time it is.

 

[Uncivil Servant]

I do know as I did both (plus fellowship) without dropping out for bogus reasons. I also served as admin chief resident so I'm quite familiar with how remediation discussions work. When someone's 90% through a grueling residency, toughing it out for 6 more months, or even switching programs is much more logical than deciding to drop out so then being dependent on a gig monetizing on peoples mistrust in medicine.

But I suspect you were quoting the wrong post

I'm genuinely curious if there wasn't something more. Obviously administrative, research, and other non-clinical tracks are more than just "second choices" (and many administrative positions are more competitive than clinical positions), but they are off-ramps from indentured servitude, offered much earlier than she chose to leave.

I guess I'd just caution that it could be something more along the lines of a personal or family emergency.

 

[Dr_Olerif]

Short?

1864 to now. That ain't short.

Well I guess in geological time it is.

In terms of established statehood it is also a short time. Even 250 years is relatively a short time for a country to exist

 

[sword_9mm]

In terms of established statehood it is also a short time. Even 250 years is relatively a short time for a country to exist

Yeah true.

Then again Rome carried on for some time after it was dead. The US probably will as well in some Russian type fashion.

 

[ZippyPeanut]

"avoid ... receipt paper"???

 

[Syphilitic]

"avoid ... receipt paper"???

From UPMC "Health Beat;"
"Receipt paper, particularly thermal paper, often contains chemicals like bisphenol A (BPA) and bisphenol S (BPS), which can disrupt hormones and pose health risks, especially with frequent handling. Exposure to these chemicals can lead to reproductive issues and other health concerns over time."

Another random page:

Handling receipt paper can lead to exposure to BPA and BPS, which are linked to various health issues, including:
Hormonal disruptions
Fertility problems
Increased cancer risk, particularly breast and prostate cancers
Learning and behavior issues

Some businesses are beginning to offer "phenol-free" receipt paper - including some proprietary tech. I'm not familiar with the evidence, but this seems like something that might be of concern to cashiers handling receipts all day, every day. But for the average person?
Meanwhile, "maha" seems fine with gutting the EPA and rolling back many environmental regulations.

 

[EnPeaSea]

It’s just amazing what the United States has turned into in such a short time.

Has it really been so short? I believe we have been in a downward spiral since Nixon (at the earliest) and at least since the advent of 24-hr news channels.

Edit: My furthest back estimation is our failure to complete Restoration.

 

[H2O Rip]

Beth is absolutely crushing it. Her reporting and work has been great.

I just wish she didnt have.... this... base material that dictated article subjects. Beth's talents (and excellent puns) would be so much better spent on exciting medical news.
Alas the world is clearly not interested in a timeline we all would prefer

 

[rochefort]

Do I trust my doctors? Mostly, but not entirely, which is what I think the Means mean. Consider New Analysis Suggests Adverse Drug Events Are the 3rd Leading Cause of Death in the USA

According to an analysis conducted by the American Society of Pharmacovigilance (ASP), adverse drug events (ADEs) are now the third leading cause of death in the United States. This figure combines ADEs that result from several causes including prescribing errors, prescription drug overdoses, prescription drug misuse, drug-drug interactions, allergic reactions, and adverse drug reactions (ADRs). The ASP launched the “Third Cause Campaign” in response to the new data, estimating that ADEs account for ~250,000 deaths each year, a greater number than deaths caused by stroke and respiratory disease.

Lumping prescription drug misuse together with prescription errors and adverse drug reactions means that this analysis is NOT actually about the practice of medicine.

 

[p______x]

Your screenshot included only a portion of the page. "She was never licensed, outside of her training program."

Your screenshot included only a portion of that page.
View attachment 121315
I understand the difference - been there, done that.

Linking my source was sufficient without including a list of license numbers.

I guess I'd just caution that it could be something more along the lines of a personal or family emergency.

Definitely. But people can remediate and they can also get some time credit towards other residency programs if they want to.
----
At the end of the day, I'd only consider dietary advice from people who deeply consider the microbiome in this context (something that only came into the picture in the past 10-15y). For example, artificial sweeteners/sugars are linked to remarkable gut microbiome changes that are linked to insulin resistance or altered inflammatory responses affecting cancer risk and many other things.

 

[Sadre]

"As a mom first and a doctor second..." answers at confirmation hearing, incoming.

 

[sword_9mm]

From UPMC "Health Beat;"
"Receipt paper, particularly thermal paper, often contains chemicals like bisphenol A (BPA) and bisphenol S (BPS), which can disrupt hormones and pose health risks, especially with frequent handling. Exposure to these chemicals can lead to reproductive issues and other health concerns over time."

Another random page:

Some businesses are beginning to offer "phenol-free" receipt paper - including some proprietary tech.
Meanwhile, "maha" seems fine with gutting the EPA and rolling back many environmental regulations.

Interesting enough.

I always eschew the receipt but never really thought about the paper.

 

[nomoroto]

Avoiding cigarettes and/or alcohol wasn't mentioned, so there must be something to this.

/s

 

[C64 raids Bungling Bay]

"Wellness" companies? So it was just a grift all along, just like RfK jr? We destroyed our country because some charlatans convinced working class white people to throw away reason for scams and hatred of brown people?