The evolution of expendability: Why some ants traded armor for numbers

Ants with lots of workers tend to put less energy into making them armored.

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[llanitedave]

I thought of a different and more recent parallel - the move from hunting-gathering to farming, on the order of ten thousand years ago. I don't know if it is a hundred percent authenticated, but it seems to be often said that nutrition quality and health took a step down, in the interest of larger populations and civilisational development.

As with most things, the actual history is a bit more nuanced than that. More recently we've seen a number of places where sedentism and social stratification, hallmarks of civilization, occurred prior to agriculture. Two examples that come to mind quickly are the settlements of Göbekli Tepe and it's neighbors of the pre-pottery neolithic of Turkey, who were producing monumental architecture and stone-carved iconography a thousand years or more before any sign of crop domestication; and the Tlingit people and related tribes of southern Alaska and Pacific Canada. They had complex societies and established sedentary households, as well as a tradition of slave-holding, without agriculture.

It may be that in at least some cases sedentism and social organization came first, and that agriculture may have been an effect of that kind of culture, rather than a cause of it.

 

[dagar9]

At their most advanced levels of real-world development, Capitalism and Communism turn out to be remarkably similar.
China - QED

Economic system doesn't really map to political system. The US, China, Nazi Germany are all capitalist, though the political systems are different. I guess the USSR would be an imperfect example of communism (everything owned/operated by the state, though not by the commune) but it didn't last.

 

[InvariantCapitalist]

Economic system doesn't really map to political system. The US, China, Nazi Germany are all capitalist, though the political systems are different. I guess the USSR would be an imperfect example of communism (everything owned/operated by the state, though not by the commune) but it didn't last.

Before the 1980s China was as communist as the USSR, if not more. Since Deng started harnessing the power of free enterprise in the 80s its becone very capitalistic but kept the authoritarianism.

 

[Komarov]

Economic system doesn't really map to political system. The US, China, Nazi Germany are all capitalist, though the political systems are different. I guess the USSR would be an imperfect example of communism (everything owned/operated by the state, though not by the commune) but it didn't last.

I have to object to this usian definition of communism as "ownership by the state". That's just horribly wrong, I have no idea where they teach such crap.

Communism implies ownership by the people, which is a different beast entirely*. Also the wealth distribution "from everyone according to their ability, to everyone according to their needs." It quickly becomes clear that communal species are, surprise surprise, as close to the commuist ideal as you can come.


* Yah. The real reason why communism doesn't work is literally because people aren't ants. The "owned by everyone" becomes "cared about by no-one" and "according to their needs" morphs to "some animals are more equal than others."

 

[The Lurker Beneath]

I have to object to this usian definition of communism as "ownership by the state". That's just horribly wrong, I have no idea where they teach such crap.

Communism implies ownership by the people, which is a different beast entirely*. Also the wealth distribution "from everyone according to their ability, to everyone according to their needs." It quickly becomes clear that communal species are, surprise surprise, as close to the commuist ideal as you can come.


* Yah. The real reason why communism doesn't work is literally because people aren't ants. The "owned by everyone" becomes "cared about by no-one" and "according to their needs" morphs to "some animals are more equal than others."

It's also more prone to centripetal collapse as at least if you have a bunch of gazillionaires owning everything they will tend to pull in different directions, but if everything is doled out by the state you end up with a black hole of bureaucracy swallowing everything.

 

[Komarov]

It's also more prone to centripetal collapse as at least if you have a bunch of gazillionaires owning everything they will tend to pull in different directions, but if everything is doled out by the state you end up with a black hole of bureaucracy swallowing everything.

Misconception again: not "the state". The intended goal is a giant co-op where everyone is a member and everyone has equal say. The quintessential direct democracy.

Which doesn't work because of self-interest leading to grift and a majority if ιδιωτης in the original Greek meaning.

ETA: which is exactly how DJT became 47 ... now I wish he was a drone instead of an oaf.

 

[The Lurker Beneath]

Misconception again: not "the state". The intended goal is a giant co-op where everyone is a member and everyone has equal say. The quintessential direct democracy.

Which doesn't work because of self-interest leading to grift and a majority if ιδιωτης in the original Greek meaning.

ETA: which is exactly how DJT became 47 ... now I wish he was a drone instead of an oaf.

Sure that's the theory, but what large polity ever even thought it was possible without state control (you can have a commune in small groups, obviously - they might even work for a while)? Actual attempts at communism were always state-centred.

 

[Komarov]

Sure that's the theory, but what large polity ever even thought it was possible without state control (you can have a commune in small groups, obviously - they might even work for a while)? Actual attempts at communism were always state-centred.

I happened to grow up in one where the stated goal was to massively decentralize the state and reduce the role of the government. And we were notorious for killing off the 5-year planning in favour of employee participation in management, innovation and "cooperative competition" if you can imagine such a thing.

It worked fairly well for a while but ultimately failed because of the reasons I mentioned earlier.

I wonder if you can guess which state I'm talking about.

 

[The Lurker Beneath]

I happened to grow up in one where the stated goal was to massively decentralize the state and reduce the role of the government. And we were notorious for killing off the 5-year planning in favour of employee participation in management, innovation and "cooperative competition" if you can imagine such a thing.

It worked fairly well for a while but ultimately failed because of the reasons I mentioned earlier.

I wonder if you can guess which state I'm talking about.

No - please tell.

 

[sir_trackmenot]

Nor did I, isn't science great and cool.

I guess it's not shocking that it exists. People make images of all sorts of weird shit.

 

[PointingOutTheObvious]

The author from ARS said something like “some ant colonies invested…” and I have to wonder if the study they are reporting on had those exact words because investing implies thought and choice whereas evolution just happens.

 

[Komarov]

The author from ARS said something like “some ant colonies invested…” and I have to wonder if the study they are reporting on had those exact words because investing implies thought and choice whereas evolution just happens.

From the little I've read on the subject of survival strategies, "invest" in this context doesn't imply conscious decisions. Just as there's no assumption that the subjects (i.e., any living things) can do maths even though the strategies can be analysed with mathematics.