The cost of celebrity

Nekojin

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I saw part of an interview with the rapper 50 Cent recently, where he revealed that he was offered $500,000 - half a million - to attend Trump's inauguration. Not to perform at it, not to give a speech, or perform in any capacity - just to be there. And he turned it down. He said that he couldn't see how he could repair the damage that would do to his reputation.

That got me thinking. Most of us don't deal with celebrity at all. If we're well-known and respected in our field, we're generally known by name alone to only a small handful of people - a few dozen, maybe a few hundred. We're known and respected, sure, but only within our fields.

But politics, entertainment, and a few other things lay a level of celebrity over anyone successful in it, and that changes everything in a person's life. Celebrities have to start wondering whether someone trying to get close to them actually likes them for who they are, or is trying to gain some personal benefit for themselves - money, their own slice of celebrity (see Kato Caelin for an example of this), or connections. Even minor celebrity, such as winners of the now-defunct Publisher's Clearing House or of a large lottery jackpot, start getting people who want to ingratiate themselves to the celebrity for any of a number of reasons. Often money, but not always.

As a result, many celebrities close themselves off from the general public, and start socializing only with other celebrities. This results in celebrity itself becoming a self-reinforcing class system not unlike English nobility. Some celebrities avoid this social stratification, but nevertheless have to find other ways to keep bad-faith actors from approaching them on a nearly limitless basis.

Money itself is not a path to celebrity. Celebrity is, in many ways, more rarified territory than simple riches. The top 1% of society are far too numerous, and even the top 0.1% is more than 150,000 households. Most of them stay out of celebrity - it usually takes direct action (spending money in ostentatious ways, for example) or revelation of crimes (such as the Sackler family) to be catapulted into the spotlight of celebrity. You could say that in a Venn diagram of wealth and celebrity, there's some overlap, but not as much as you might initially think. After the Trumps, Musks, Adelsons, and Waltons, we start getting to names that aren't well-known to the general populace, because these are people who, either through accident or design, did not attract celebrity along with their wealth. Some are simply because they're from another country, and Americans have been more than a bit egocentric for longer than I've been alive. Things that happen outside of our country might as well not matter to us.

Celebrity certainly has its benefits. Being in serious celebrity status, whether it be through sports, acting, or other paths, generally opens doors and allows for connections that one might not otherwise have. Being told that, say, Tom Holland or Taylor Swift wants to meet you is enough for most people, no matter how reclusive they are otherwise, to agree to meeting them, if only to find out what they want. People who would never talk to a black man out of Compton normally will be more likely to meet a Michael Jordan or Zoë Kravitz. Celebrity can result in people giving you money for the smallest of favors, like the one mentioned at the start of this post.

But at the same time, celebrity has its downsides. The most obvious is bad actors - people who seek you out for personal enrichment, without any quid pro quo. Some of them do it semi-honestly, trying to befriend the celebrity. Some do it in other ways, such as accusing a male celebrity of being the father of their baby, or claiming that the celebrity owes them money for some wrong-doing, injustice, or accident. And then there are the stalkers - people who have an unhealthy obsession on the celebrity.

It seems impossible to step out of celebrity once someone becomes a celebrity. At least, by choice - it's possible to lose celebrity by being too boring to keep following, but that's a long process, and uncertain, particularly if you're in a business where being in the spotlight is part of the job.

So what do you think? Would you want your Warholian 15 minutes of fame? Do you think the pros outweigh the cons?

(Apologies if this straddles the line between Soap Box and Lounge, but this seemed too serious of a discussion for the Lounge)
 

DarthSlack

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For me, it's not so much the celebrities (though they can be problematic), but rather celebrity worship that's the real problem. Why anyone thinks random actors/athletes/youtubers/influencers/newscasters have any significant credence on any topic is beyond me. Sure, you get the occasional celebrity who puts in the grunt work to be an actual voice for a topic, but there's a far wider range of celebrities that people seem to take seriously.
 

drogin

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For me, it's not so much the celebrities (though they can be problematic), but rather celebrity worship that's the real problem. Why anyone thinks random actors/athletes/youtubers/influencers/newscasters have any significant credence on any topic is beyond me. Sure, you get the occasional celebrity who puts in the grunt work to be an actual voice for a topic, but there's a far wider range of celebrities that people seem to take seriously.
I think most people don't have the rigor to evaluate their sources (which explains many things). One thing celebrities have, whether they want it or not, is a platform. People that aren't willing or able to evaluate sources are going to default to going with whatever message resonates with them.
 

Coriolanus

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There's been a lot of cases of lottery winners who get a sudden windfall, but often either loses it all or wind up in worse positions (or dead) in a short period.

These people are often innundated with people who are pitching get rich quick schemes, hangers on, relatives and friends coming out of the woodwork asking for money, or kidnapping threats for ransom. They also often fell into drugs or overspending due to suddenly lavish lifestyles.

Celebrities are a subset of this. The ones that crash and burn are the ones who suddenly get catapulted to celebrity. The ones who built up wealth and prestige over time are better at handling it. They also have a support community of other celebrities. The downside is that they might get into a bubble community and become disconnected with the outside.
 

sakete

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There's been a lot of cases of lottery winners who get a sudden windfall, but often either loses it all or wind up in worse positions (or dead) in a short period.

These people are often innundated with people who are pitching get rich quick schemes, hangers on, relatives and friends coming out of the woodwork asking for money, or kidnapping threats for ransom. They also often fell into drugs or overspending due to suddenly lavish lifestyles.

Celebrities are a subset of this. The ones that crash and burn are the ones who suddenly get catapulted to celebrity. The ones who built up wealth and prestige over time are better at handling it. They also have a support community of other celebrities. The downside is that they might get into a bubble community and become disconnected with the outside.
Which is why if you ever win the lottery, don't tell a soul. Setup a trust, have the trust cash the lottery ticket, and obfuscate as much as you can. And don't change your lifestyle, with only minimal gradual changes over time. Invest all the winnings and live off the interest and dividends. Heck, move to another country if your situation allows and change your name if you have to haha.

Of course, the venn diagram of people who buy lottery tickets and people with little common sense probably has a lot of overlap. I mean I buy a lottery ticket sometimes when I'm at the gas station and I see the jackpot is really high. Then I'm like, sure, why not, I can miss $2 for the occasional non-zero chance of becoming filthy rich. But I know there are lots of poor people that buy lottery tickets all the time hoping to make it big...
 

GohanIYIan

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Celebrity has always existed on a spectrum with different levels of fame. I suspect we've passed something like "peak celebrity". With media fragmentation, it's basically impossible for any particular thing to command the audience of something like Friends or ER back in their heyday.

As a middle aged person, I also feel a little uncertain just how good my understanding of celebrity is. There was a time when Monica Lewinsky was one of the most well known people in the entire country, but do people 10 or 20 years younger than me recognize that name or have any idea who she was?
 

HiroTheProtagonist

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Which is why if you ever win the lottery, don't tell a soul. Setup a trust, have the trust cash the lottery ticket, and obfuscate as much as you can. And don't change your lifestyle, with only minimal gradual changes over time. Invest all the winnings and live off the interest and dividends. Heck, move to another country if your situation allows and change your name if you have to haha.

Of course, the venn diagram of people who buy lottery tickets and people with little common sense probably has a lot of overlap. I mean I buy a lottery ticket sometimes when I'm at the gas station and I see the jackpot is really high. Then I'm like, sure, why not, I can miss $2 for the occasional non-zero chance of becoming filthy rich. But I know there are lots of poor people that buy lottery tickets all the time hoping to make it big...
That's just it, most state lotteries do not allow anonymous lottery winning (from what I can find only 10 allow for total anonymity, a few allow anonymity up to a certain prize threshold, and a few allow collection via trust/LLC), so even if you took precautions the info will still be made public and the vultures will swarm.

For the thread, I'd rather be rich than famous, but they tend to go hand in hand most of the time.
 

HiroTheProtagonist

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Celebrity has always existed on a spectrum with different levels of fame. I suspect we've passed something like "peak celebrity". With media fragmentation, it's basically impossible for any particular thing to command the audience of something like Friends or ER back in their heyday.

As a middle aged person, I also feel a little uncertain just how good my understanding of celebrity is. There was a time when Monica Lewinsky was one of the most well known people in the entire country, but do people 10 or 20 years younger than me recognize that name or have any idea who she was?
Thanks to the internet, lots of young people can find out about the celebrities of yesteryear, plus far as I can tell Lewinsky still has a social media presence and is more than willing to joke about the experience.

But yeah, the lack of a cohesive "central narrative" that existed in the days of television has more or less reduced the scope of celebrity. I'd also argue that the two-time ascension of a reality TV star to the presidency has shown a lot of people the true dangers of celebrity worship and society is at least somewhat reflexively pushing back.
 

sakete

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That's just it, most state lotteries do not allow anonymous lottery winning (from what I can find only 10 allow for total anonymity, a few allow anonymity up to a certain prize threshold, and a few allow collection via trust/LLC), so even if you took precautions the info will still be made public and the vultures will swarm.

For the thread, I'd rather be rich than famous, but they tend to go hand in hand most of the time.
Then very publicly give it all away to some foundation you've created in advance, which then transfers it to a trust in Belize and then fake your own death. /s
 

iPilot05

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I used to fly celebrities around. I think what is most interesting is how someone's life becomes a brand. Also, kind of like with lottery winners, it's not always the people who can handle it that get handed the golden key*. A lot of the celebrity drama stuff you see with the likes of Brittney Spears, Michael Jackson, Justin Bieber etc. all stem from people swept into the fantasy world of Hollywood from a young vulnerable age with bad actors pulling the strings all along.

These people end up having their entire lives choreographed and image being paramount in everything they do. Kind of like the example OP gave of 50 Cent offered money to attend the inauguration. These people have staff that do nothing but analyze a celebrity's daily movements, professional and personal engagements and associations and how that affects the larger brand.

They are even told who to date and who to break up with. I met one gay guy in a boy band who was set up by his handlers with a fake girlfriend (also in a band of her own) to throw people off. If it came out he was gay, even today, the jig would be up as his primary business is making teenage girls' sex drive go wild.

Its really no wonder half of these people end up nuttier than a fruitcake, particularly after their prime and nobody gives a rip about them anymore.

*Side story: Mid-2000s I briefly flew around an 70s-80s rock band on tour. Obviously these dudes have been around the block a few times. You may think they did nothing but party with debauchery happening on every flight but instead it was the opposite. They showed up on time to the minute, bags neatly packed and labeled and dressed in business causal. The flights were dead quiet with them reading the Wall Street Journal or watching a movie. If you didn't know who they were you'd assume they were high level salesmen on the way to a meeting.

I suppose that's how they were still out there doing tours 20+ years after their prime. They treated the act like a business and generally didn't get wrapped up in the wild party scene associated with those kinds of bands in that era.
 
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Lt_Storm

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They are even told who to date and who to break up with. I met one gay guy in a boy band who was set up by his handlers with a fake girlfriend (also in a band of her own) to throw people off. If it came out he was gay, even today, the jig would be up as his primary business is making teenage girls' sex drive go wild.
I don't know about that, after all, hot is hot. Someone being gay just makes makes the fruit more forbidden. And forbidden fruit makes people go wild.

At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that were the story that media executives tell themselves, after all, they have to justify the homophobia somehow.
 

Lt_Storm

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"I could be the one to convince him he's straight!"
Yep, that's the likely thought which means his primary business would be just fine. Well, that and, honestly, sex appeal isn't so much about the reality of it, just being dreamy is enough. That such a celebrity needs to be available is really quote stupid. There have been plenty of married dreamy celebrities who are just as inaccessible, bit nobody complains.
 

Lt_Storm

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Yeah you guys probably know more about it than he does.
Here's the thing about hegemonic common knowledge: everyone thinks it's true even when it isn't. The reality is that we have had decades of people telling gay people that the world will end if they come out of the closet. They eventually did and it didn't. Just because a bunch of homophobes at the top of the media business are selling their version of the world to starlets doesn't mean that those homophobes are right.

Moreover, the experiment has been done, plenty of members of boy bands have come out as gay. Turns out that those bands are still popular. Hell, OutLoud is an entire band composed of queer men, they aren't unpopular for it. And, let's be honest here, this isn't a recent phenomena, after all, the Village People were pretty fruity, plenty of women still swooned over them.
 

concernUrsus

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Here's the thing about hegemonic common knowledge: everyone thinks it's true even when it isn't. The reality is that we have had decades of people telling gay people that the world will end if they come out of the closet. They eventually did and it didn't. Just because a bunch of homophobes at the top of the media business are selling their version of the world to starlets doesn't mean that those homophobes are right.

Moreover, the experiment has been done, plenty of members of boy bands have come out as gay. Turns out that those bands are still popular. Hell, OutLoud is an entire band composed of queer men, they aren't unpopular for it. And, let's be honest here, this isn't a recent phenomena, after all, the Village People were pretty fruity, plenty of women still swooned over them.

Depend on the time period and/or cultures. Both Asia boy/girl bands are told not to dates. I think it is the same for a lot of celebrities in USA as well. May be not as much anymore, but it is a very common things. These brands companies have a lot of standard procedures on market and how to approach things. I am sure as people are more comfortable with LGBTQ+, there will be different approaches and craft out a different demographics.

Once you have established your "brand", it is a like a giant tanker that is very hard to turn. There are also a whole group of people link to you. This is the same for politicians as well. Politicians, like Dianne Feinstein, probably have no business to be in the office at the end. However, there are a lot of people have interest to keep them there. There is also Stan Lee who was still working until very end.
 

poochyena

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It seems impossible to step out of celebrity once someone becomes a celebrity. At least, by choice - it's possible to lose celebrity by being too boring to keep following, but that's a long process, and uncertain, particularly if you're in a business where being in the spotlight is part of the job.
I think the difference between being a celebrity vs simply being a well known person is the choice of promoting yourself as a celebrity. Plenty of people get "15 minutes of fame" and then fade away very quickly. I'd argue few people become and stay celebrities without trying. It takes a lot of effort to become a celebrity and not fade.
If you become a celebrity as stay as one for decades, then yes, it can be hard to stop being one (Richard Simmons being an example), but someone who becomes viral for a week can easily fade from memory after a week.
 

Shavano

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There's been a lot of cases of lottery winners who get a sudden windfall, but often either loses it all or wind up in worse positions (or dead) in a short period.

These people are often innundated with people who are pitching get rich quick schemes, hangers on, relatives and friends coming out of the woodwork asking for money, or kidnapping threats for ransom. They also often fell into drugs or overspending due to suddenly lavish lifestyles.
I have heard rumors of this, but "there's been a lot?"

Not that I know of. What makes a lot? Half? 10%? 1%? Less than that?

I think most big lottery winners probably just lay low, because you don't hear of many of them again, and I don't think it's because they died or disappeared. I think it's because they don't want notoriety and are able to avoid it.
Celebrities are a subset of this. The ones that crash and burn are the ones who suddenly get catapulted to celebrity. The ones who built up wealth and prestige over time are better at handling it. They also have a support community of other celebrities. The downside is that they might get into a bubble community and become disconnected with the outside.
I don't think it's the same. Celebrities are largely people who are compelled by their livelihood to play into fame.
 

Lt_Storm

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Depend on the time period and/or cultures. Both Asia boy/girl bands are told not to dates. I think it is the same for a lot of celebrities in USA as well. May be not as much anymore, but it is a very common things. These brands companies have a lot of standard procedures on market and how to approach things. I am sure as people are more comfortable with LGBTQ+, there will be different approaches and craft out a different demographics.

Once you have established your "brand", it is a like a giant tanker that is very hard to turn. There are also a whole group of people link to you. This is the same for politicians as well. Politicians, like Dianne Feinstein, probably have no business to be in the office at the end. However, there are a lot of people have interest to keep them there. There is also Stan Lee who was still working until very end.
I mean, to a degree, yes, if you were the gay drummer in a Christian rock band, you're going to have to keep that secret. But, that's the exception that proves the rule. For the most part, all of that stuff is just some executive believes X, Y, and Z with no real basis in the larger society, until a gay band comes out or someone has a date there isn't any way to test that. But, honestly the executive's beliefs are the bigger risk, defy them, and even if they are wrong, he's still going to cut you from the band.

This is a big part of why I described it as hegemonic: this isn't the broad time period and culture flowing up toward the celebrity. Instead, it's a bunch of powerful assholes who want to control specific things flowing down from above. Even in the case of the Christian rock band, it's still rooted in some pastor telling his flock that they are going to burn in hell because that makes him important. Outside that dynamic, it's usually a bunch of bullshit.

But, then, there are places where that dynamic rules the day and the fact that the same band member may actually be hotter if he came out as gay is quiet irrelevant, the executive still tells everyone that it will "destroy his sex appeal" so he BETTER NOT DO THAT OK. The excuse, of course, is still horse shit and because the executive has the power, it doesn't necessarily matter. Unless, of course, he is willing and able to take the power back, probably won't work for the Christan rock band's gay drummer, but it probably will work just fine for a boy band.
 

concernUrsus

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I mean, to a degree, yes, if you were the gay drummer in a Christian rock band, you're going to have to keep that secret. But, that's the exception that proves the rule. For the most part, all of that stuff is just some executive believes X, Y, and Z with no real basis in the larger society, until a gay band comes out or someone has a date there isn't any way to test that. But, honestly the executive's beliefs are the bigger risk, defy them, and even if they are wrong, he's still going to cut you from the band.

This is a big part of why I described it as hegemonic: this isn't the broad time period and culture flowing up toward the celebrity. Instead, it's a bunch of powerful assholes who want to control specific things flowing down from above. Even in the case of the Christian rock band, it's still rooted in some pastor telling his flock that they are going to burn in hell because that makes him important. Outside that dynamic, it's usually a bunch of bullshit.

But, then, there are places where that dynamic rules the day and the fact that the same band member may actually be hotter if he came out as gay is quiet irrelevant, the executive still tells everyone that it will "destroy his sex appeal" so he BETTER NOT DO THAT OK. The excuse, of course, is still horse shit and because the executive has the power, it doesn't necessarily matter. Unless, of course, he is willing and able to take the power back, probably won't work for the Christan rock band's gay drummer, but it probably will work just fine for a boy band.

I mean gay tv drama is very popular in Asia, so there is a market there. However, brands/agencies have a very specific script that they want to follow. It is very hard for them to change because change increase risk (but may also increase profit). The Korea boy/girl brands is a very dark industry if you look into it.

Honestly, I do not know how anyone wants to spend so much effort to be a "star". I can see into the craft of singing/acting/etc. but to be a star/brand, just a foreign concept to me. Unless you are born with talent/look, there have to be easier path to be rich/powerful.
 
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Ananke

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From personal observation: I'd rather be rich than famous.

A first cousin managed, by ways and means forever mysterious to me, to wind up starring in big-name movies and dating various pop-stars. He has a small collection of (laundered) intimate garments that have been thrown at him. He seems to have handled it better than many, but even so, it's fairly clear that even as not-immediate-family, he has a few barriers up the rare occasion we speak.

In a rather smaller field, it seems to be less of a problem in academia. Not not a problem - as a case in point, certain research groups who entirely co-incidentally happen to be led by Nobel prize winners or equivalent seem to have consistently much higher success rates on grant applications, for example. While not directly comparable (neuroscience vs atomic physics), my current job is in a group with vastly more money sloshing around than where I completed my doctoral research - and vastly more so than the other groups in the same building, for that matter. But they don't need security guards around, and the media mostly leave them alone.