The connections in autistic brains are idiosyncratic and individualized

Each autistics' brain is distinct; non-autistics' brains are remarkably uniform.

Read the whole story

 

[TheEphemeralElectron]

Well, if these findings hold true from birth, rather than from development, at least there would be an easy way to diagnose autism conclusively. Wasn't Autism one of the conditions that was supremely hard to accurately diagnose in children because it is largely discovered through behavioral differences initially? Indeed, it appears to be that it's more art than science at present. Though an fMRI is too costly of a way to broadly diagnose children, it at least could be done after there is a suspicion of the condition.

 

[snowcat-il]

So this means my brain is very unique and not a boring plain vanilla brain

 

[TheEphemeralElectron]

snowcat-il[/url]":3c5qck41]So this means my brain is very unique and not a boring plain vanilla brain

I was thinking that. Now the "normal" people are a little less "unique snowflakes", and Autistic people can truly claim that uniqueness, if only from a cerebral wiring standpoint.

 

[systemsready]

Huh. Does this possibly explain why I can't even fit in among other autistic people?

Everyone, from my mom to my psychiatrist to my therapist, magically expects me to feel better when I'm around other neuroatypical people...yet I find it just as hard to make friends with them as I do with "normal" people...they feel just as fundamentally different from me.

 

[Mondoman]

I'm confused by the story's final paragraph. The author says:

An intriguing possibility is that, because neural connections are shaped by the routine behaviors and experiences that we have every day, people with ASD each exhibit idiosyncratic connectivity patterns in their brains because they each experience the world and interact with their environment in an idiosyncratic way.

The author seems to be assuming that neural connections are shaped ONLY by the routine behaviors (and not, for example, by gene products that affect neuronal "pathfinding"), and thus suggesting that ASD might be *caused* by idiosyncratic behaviors and experiences.
Given the range of behaviors of children, this seems farfetched -- is there any evidence for this?

 

[Jousle]

"An intriguing possibility is that, because neural connections are shaped by the routine behaviors and experiences that we have every day, people with ASD each exhibit idiosyncratic connectivity patterns in their brains because they each experience the world and interact with their environment in an idiosyncratic way"

Another possibility is that those connections just develop in a stochastic way resulting in unique experiences and views of the world .

 

[Nowicki]

Mondoman[/url]":2ykrhsyu]I'm confused by the story's final paragraph. The author says:

An intriguing possibility is that, because neural connections are shaped by the routine behaviors and experiences that we have every day, people with ASD each exhibit idiosyncratic connectivity patterns in their brains because they each experience the world and interact with their environment in an idiosyncratic way.

The author seems to be assuming that neural connections are shaped ONLY by the routine behaviors (and not, for example, by gene products that affect neuronal "pathfinding"), and thus suggesting that ASD might be *caused* by idiosyncratic behaviors and experiences.
Given the range of behaviors of children, this seems farfetched -- is there any evidence for this?

There will certainly be both as the rapid development of humans from conception means genes play a large role in these patterns being layed out in the brain. The brain can start processing things in ways not set by this because of an environmental change like a guy who gets hit on the head and unlocks musical abilities. Figuring out how to trigger or redesign these connections in a safe way could mean some of the biggest advances in medicine.

 

[potato44830]

So Tolstoy was right?

 

[beebee]

This would be an interesting test to run on autistic savants. Do those with the same skills have the same wiring?

And am I the only person here that wants one of these plots for my brain? The image is beyond fascinating.

 

[Voldenuit]

"Yes, Leela. Like a prom dress made from carpet samples."

 

[bug77]

TheEphemeralElectron[/url]":3cc0k7i0]

snowcat-il[/url]":3cc0k7i0]So this means my brain is very unique and not a boring plain vanilla brain

I was thinking that. Now the "normal" people are a little less "unique snowflakes", and Autistic people can truly claim that uniqueness, if only from a cerebral wiring standpoint.

Or, we could just discard ASD brains for being outside the three-sigma interval

 

[karadoc]

snowcat-il[/url]":2h38hlfw]So this means my brain is very unique and not a boring plain vanilla brain

Indeed.

I've heard it claimed that a person needs to be a bit autistic to be truly brilliant. I personally don't really like to call anyone a genius or brilliant or whatever; but I will say that the ability to 'think outside the box' and a tendency to become obsessed with certain topics are both advantages when it comes to deep thinking, discovery, invention, and artistic creation.

 

[o_0]

ribald_eddie[/url]":h23cy635]

Jousle[/url]":h23cy635]"An intriguing possibility is that, because neural connections are shaped by the routine behaviors and experiences that we have every day, people with ASD each exhibit idiosyncratic connectivity patterns in their brains because they each experience the world and interact with their environment in an idiosyncratic way"

Another possibility is that those connections just develop in a stochastic way resulting in unique experiences and views of the world .

There no evidence. The author is making it up. It's more likely to be genetic, or if there is an environmental factor its closely mediated by genetic factors.

However this is all based on it being the same thing (autism equal autism) . From the way ASD is diagnosed it can be all of the above sometimes for different people . the underlying cause can be different but still express the same traits . from a lot of studies people with AS,HFA (ASD) seem to have a information overflow problem (can be from a lot of different areas of the brain). this can lead to the following thing but other reason can equally be valid.
Example: imagine being a kid, you start playing , suddenly the child next to you starts crying , you don’t like to cry . you had notice just before that the light flickered , his mom had just left, thunder and rain, the day care worker had made a loud yell (just spilled a glass of milk) , his clothes is in the color blue. you say to him it only a glass of milk and you continue playing.
next day. you start playing, and the child next to you starts crying , you had notice just before that his mom had just left,thunder, it just started to rain and his clothes is in the color blue. you say to him it only rain and you continue playing.
next day, same thing, but now the day care worker is also looking at you, this time you say it okey your mom will come back.
next day. same thing, you are just about to say to the crying child to pick a different color. But then the day care worker yells at you and asked can’t you see that you are making him cry, stop being mean . This will of course be confusing .

A child without ASD would have had less variables to consider and notice the following : the kid was left at day care and started playing with his toy, you took it and started to play with his toy. And in that case come to the correct conclusion , stealing his toy made him cry. (why would playing with his toy be a reason in the first senario )
Further more you would have learnt a important lesson , that something that makes you happy (playing with his toy) can make someone less happy.
multiply many times over years and you can see why people with ASD might behave a little different . And because a big element in diagnosing ASD in people is the social behavior, it will actually group a lot of different underlying reasons into the same group . So if the theory that ASD is based on information overflow is correct, The areas of the brain that show more connectivity can be different from person to person with ASD and still lead to the same visible effect and explain why it hard to pin down the ultimate cause (ASD not equal ASD)

However the main point is that whatever is the actual cause of AS,ASD,HFA. having the diagnosis based on the social development and behavior is problematic given that the above senario can be caused by many different things and result in the same social development and behavior as people with ASD

 

[beebee]

karadoc[/url]":2hwumllh]

snowcat-il[/url]":2hwumllh]So this means my brain is very unique and not a boring plain vanilla brain

Indeed.

I've heard it claimed that a person needs to be a bit autistic to be truly brilliant. I personally don't really like to call anyone a genius or brilliant or whatever; but I will say that the ability to 'think outside the box' and a tendency to become obsessed with certain topics are both advantages when it comes to deep thinking, discovery, invention, and artistic creation.

Gurus tend to be gurus in one narrow discipline. It would be interesting to do these scans on groups of people with the same skills to see if there is a pattern to their wiring.

Alternatively, take subjects and do before and after tests based on learning a new skill. Something few people bothered to learn so their brains are a fresh slate. Off the top of my head, juggling!

 

[jphamlore]

karadoc[/url]":13mzy0m1]

snowcat-il[/url]":13mzy0m1]So this means my brain is very unique and not a boring plain vanilla brain

Indeed.

I've heard it claimed that a person needs to be a bit autistic to be truly brilliant. I personally don't really like to call anyone a genius or brilliant or whatever; but I will say that the ability to 'think outside the box' and a tendency to become obsessed with certain topics are both advantages when it comes to deep thinking, discovery, invention, and artistic creation.

Nothing I have ever read about Richard Feynman indicates he had any trace of autism.

 

[Cloudgazer]

systemsready[/url]":319sp3zz]Huh. Does this possibly explain why I can't even fit in among other autistic people?

Everyone, from my mom to my psychiatrist to my therapist, magically expects me to feel better when I'm around other neuroatypical people...yet I find it just as hard to make friends with them as I do with "normal" people...they feel just as fundamentally different from me.

That makes sense, and while you have probably built up ways of understanding 'normal' people based on years of observation other neuroatypical people would be not only as baffling to you on an instinctive level as 'normals' but also even more baffling on a learned level. And you to them of course.

But, maybe the idea isn't that you should necessarily feel more comfortable around other neuroatypical people, but that you should allow yourself to feel more comfortable about feeling uncomfortable when you're around them. After all you knows that they're uncomfortable too. You have your discomfort and alienation from each other as a somewhat paradoxical thing in common.

So maybe they're not friends, but they're comrades - you're in the same day to day struggle with a society which expects you to be able to instinctively navigate currents that you often can't even see. To me that seems like the place to start.

 

[NearGeek]

As a special education teacher, I have to say this study confirms my own observations. While there are some commonalities between students with ASD, the differences between them are as pronounced as their differences from 'neurotypical' students. Each student is most certainly an individual in how they percieve the world.

 

[karadoc]

jphamlore[/url]":14fujpt0]

karadoc[/url]":14fujpt0]

snowcat-il[/url]":14fujpt0]So this means my brain is very unique and not a boring plain vanilla brain

Indeed.

I've heard it claimed that a person needs to be a bit autistic to be truly brilliant. I personally don't really like to call anyone a genius or brilliant or whatever; but I will say that the ability to 'think outside the box' and a tendency to become obsessed with certain topics are both advantages when it comes to deep thinking, discovery, invention, and artistic creation.

Nothing I have ever read about Richard Feynman indicates he had any trace of autism.

I'm sure there are countless examples of people without autism who are very highly regarded. My only point was that I can see how some features of autism could give people an edge. In most cases, autism is not a good thing - but not everything about it is bad.

 

[Zak]

So saying some "is wired differently" isn't that far from the truth then.

 

[hobgoblin]

I guess this may result is sub-types of the spectrum getting defined.

 

[Zak]

NearGeek[/url]":h0cwkr1z]As a special education teacher, I have to say this study confirms my own observations. While there are some commonalities between students with ASD, the differences between them are as pronounced as their differences from 'neurotypical' students. Each student is most certainly an individual in how they percieve the world.

Well, as the saying goes: "if you know one person with autism; you know one person with autism".

 

[dtich]

beebee[/url]":1vxratrv]This would be an interesting test to run on autistic savants. Do those with the same skills have the same wiring?

And am I the only person here that wants one of these plots for my brain? The image is beyond fascinating.

agree on both.

fascinating article, thanks. look forward to more info on this as deeper studies are done and results correlated to stages of brain development. understanding the proportions of genetic versus environmental influences on these structures would be most interesting.

 

[giltwist]

jphamlore[/url]":3w0kh90p]

karadoc[/url]":3w0kh90p]

snowcat-il[/url]":3w0kh90p]So this means my brain is very unique and not a boring plain vanilla brain

Indeed.

I've heard it claimed that a person needs to be a bit autistic to be truly brilliant. I personally don't really like to call anyone a genius or brilliant or whatever; but I will say that the ability to 'think outside the box' and a tendency to become obsessed with certain topics are both advantages when it comes to deep thinking, discovery, invention, and artistic creation.

Nothing I have ever read about Richard Feynman indicates he had any trace of autism.

When I was in grad school, I had a friend in the psychology department specializing in schizophrenia. He argued that all "mental illness" is actually a vital coping mechanism just overused or underused. So for example, paranoia is the vital coping mechanism of distrust of other taken to the extreme. Likewise, he opined that schizophrenia and genius both share the trait of "creates dramatically different chains of cause-effect reasoning than normal people." The difference between them, according to him, is that a person with schizophrenia fails to engage in "source monitoring" (which is determining the origin of an idea) which led to making larger and less reliable intuitive leaps compared to a genius. I suppose the same could be true of autism. Both the autistic and genius mind need to be able to make idiosyncratic neural connections (which I believe is formally called neuroplasticity), but perhaps where the genius has the dial set to 8, the autistic has set to 11.

 

[John the Savage]

The image you've shown is from DTI -- diffusion tensor imaging -- which tracks the diffusion of water molecules along axons to directly visualize them as they extend from one region to another.

In contrast, this paper uses fMRI, a technique which does not allow any direct anatomical measurements. Therefore, "connectivity" must be inferred, typically by looking for time-shifted correlations in the BOLD signal across different brain regions.

I haven't read this paper and thus don't know how dubious the inferences made within it are, but at least the image used here may give a false idea about how directly a study like this can measure connectivity.

 

[Theala Sildorian]

snowcat-il[/url]":36ewta3p]So this means my brain is very unique and not a boring plain vanilla brain

Ooh! The colors! The colors!

 

[cgalyon]

In working with children with ASD, it's usually considered "best practice" to first assess the present needs and characteristics. As someone else mentioned, "if you've met one person with ASD, you've met one person." There are certain fundamental features (social impairment primarily), but the secondary characteristics can be widely varied and may range from non-existent to severely debilitating. As it is currently understood, ASD better describes a collection of disorders featuring social impairment as a commonality, but otherwise is a concession of ignorance about the knowledge needed for specificity. (And that's an appropriate concession to make at this time.)

 

[Theala Sildorian]

SharZee[/url]":w15kos4j]Why the differences in autistic brains?
If autistic brains have been developmentally damaged/impaired, the amount and impact of damage would vary and cause unique results. I propose that radiofrequency radiation is one immensely important factor in the biological impacts/damage of the brain, from autism to Alzheimer's and other brain-damaged conditions.

<snip paranoid rant with no evidence to support it>

Wired, cable and fiber allow access that is 100% SAFE. Why aren't officials building these out? Whatever the reason, the results spell disaster.

Come here. Sit down. I've got your tinfoil hat all ready for you.

 

[Theala Sildorian]

giltwist[/url]":1lzl437t]

jphamlore[/url]":1lzl437t]

karadoc[/url]":1lzl437t]

snowcat-il[/url]":1lzl437t]So this means my brain is very unique and not a boring plain vanilla brain

Indeed.

I've heard it claimed that a person needs to be a bit autistic to be truly brilliant. I personally don't really like to call anyone a genius or brilliant or whatever; but I will say that the ability to 'think outside the box' and a tendency to become obsessed with certain topics are both advantages when it comes to deep thinking, discovery, invention, and artistic creation.

Nothing I have ever read about Richard Feynman indicates he had any trace of autism.

When I was in grad school, I had a friend in the psychology department specializing in schizophrenia. He argued that all "mental illness" is actually a vital coping mechanism just overused or underused. So for example, paranoia is the vital coping mechanism of distrust of other taken to the extreme. Likewise, he opined that schizophrenia and genius both share the trait of "creates dramatically different chains of cause-effect reasoning than normal people." The difference between them, according to him, is that a person with schizophrenia fails to engage in "source monitoring" (which is determining the origin of an idea) which led to making larger and less reliable intuitive leaps compared to a genius. I suppose the same could be true of autism. Both the autistic and genius mind need to be able to make idiosyncratic neural connections (which I believe is formally called neuroplasticity), but perhaps where the genius has the dial set to 8, the autistic has set to 11.

His idea grossly oversimplifies what goes on with the diseases you mention. I wonder . . . did your friend graduate?

 

[Theala Sildorian]

systemsready[/url]":7ldsfdxz]Huh. Does this possibly explain why I can't even fit in among other autistic people?

Everyone, from my mom to my psychiatrist to my therapist, magically expects me to feel better when I'm around other neuroatypical people...yet I find it just as hard to make friends with them as I do with "normal" people...they feel just as fundamentally different from me.

Autism is in large part a communication disorder.

Now if your ability to communicate (whether to send, receive, or both) is impaired with normal people, why on God's green earth would anyone expect things to be different with other people with communication disorders, be it autism or anything else!

:facepalm:

 

[NoTimeForTrolls]

My bet is that, as the article says, larger data sets might reveal similarities between subsets of ASD brains. There are just too many behavioral and mental processes similarities in people with subset ASD to not have similar connectivity and neural activity.

I am in my late 60s and was only diagnosed with Aspergers in my thirties. Over the years, I have met others with varying degrees of Aspergers and we all share several (some of us share many) traits, behaviors, mannerisms and thought/mental processes.

For the last five years, I have volunteered with a local group of parents, friends and family members who are dealing with someone diagnosed with Aspergers. As an older adult who has learned how to compensate for the eccentricities of the syndrome, how to blend into social situations, even how to use certain aspects of Aspergers to an advantage, I have been fortunate enough to use that experience and knowledge to help others.

While I hope continued research into ASD and other genetic abnormalities leads to better understanding of any causes and to treatments and remedies, I wouldn't want to see resulting data used by the likes of insurance companies, employment screeners etc for purposes of onerous rate setting, employment discrimination and policies that penalize people who have genetic conditions or mutations.

 

[Oldmanalex]

SharZee[/url]":11x17dyt]Why the differences in autistic brains?
If autistic brains have been developmentally damaged/impaired, the amount and impact of damage would vary and cause unique results. I propose that radiofrequency radiation is one immensely important factor in the biological impacts/damage of the brain, from autism to Alzheimer's and other brain-damaged conditions.

Evidence is in the science, but the popularity of wireless means you will not hear about it, since no precautions are being recommended by regulators. This is nothing new, think asbestos, lead paint and tobacco... To sample the science showing this kind of damage from radiofrequency/microwaves FAR BELOW what is allowed, please view Dr. Erica Mallery-Blythe's 2014 talk on children and emr at youtube. See also Dr. Leif Salford's presentation there on his long-term work on blood brain barrier and radiofrequency damage, which causes leaking. For consumer friendly site, see BabySafe Project. And for cutting edge science showing results in mice of very brief wifi exposure see at Medical Symposium at C4ST the informal study by Dr. Hugh Taylor of Yale.

Those charged with protecting lives are more interested in innovations, fun and profit. The brain damage has only just begun. FCC is allowing DAS antennas (small cellular antennas) to build out wireless infrastructure quicker EVERYWHERE. This means more damage to the public, esp. children and all future generations. Once DNA is damaged it impacts all generations.

Some believe that infertility and genetic damage is intended to cut back human populations. Who knows? It certainly appears that the utter lies of regulatory officials and industry will result plenty of harm to individuals and the human species, in general.

Wired, cable and fiber allow access that is 100% SAFE. Why aren't officials building these out? Whatever the reason, the results spell disaster.

You did know that a tinfoil hat completely protects your brain from radio waves? And that cable is already a bit too much of a monopoly? And that autistic people were around before the 20th century? And that ASD runs in families?

 

[Fatesrider]

Mondoman[/url]":1nthmc8s]I'm confused by the story's final paragraph. The author says:

An intriguing possibility is that, because neural connections are shaped by the routine behaviors and experiences that we have every day, people with ASD each exhibit idiosyncratic connectivity patterns in their brains because they each experience the world and interact with their environment in an idiosyncratic way.

The author seems to be assuming that neural connections are shaped ONLY by the routine behaviors (and not, for example, by gene products that affect neuronal "pathfinding"), and thus suggesting that ASD might be *caused* by idiosyncratic behaviors and experiences.
Given the range of behaviors of children, this seems farfetched -- is there any evidence for this?

Given the genetic diversity of "normal people" and the lack of diversity in brain paths among them, I'm inclined to say that behaviors and experience play much more into it than genetics.

An interesting article I read about political points of view showed that leftists often become more conservative when placed in conservative environments (the differences in thinking proven in diagnostic tests) and vice versa - with the only difference IN THE SAME INDIVIDUAL being environmental.

One of the fundamental methods of psycho therapy is cognitive therapy - recognizing certain thoughts and reacting in more appropriate ways to them. This kind of thing creates new habits in thinking and it's not far-fetched to say that those 'habits' are actually patterns discernible in fMRI's.

Therefore it's actually a scientifically valid supposition that behaviors and ways of looking at the world impact - in a major way - the patterns of thinking in certain individuals.

The question appears to be less about genetics than environmental factors. Genetically speaking, from what I've read, those who are autistic aren't fundamentally different than others. But somewhere along the line, the thinking patterns alter - and no, it isn't caused by vaccines, either. If it was, the changes in thinking patterns would be similar, and they're not. The only other thing that might play a role in it is environment - which tends to vary, often times wildly, from person to person.

 

[Leid]

Theala Sildorian[/url]":q1gstspr]

systemsready[/url]":q1gstspr]Huh. Does this possibly explain why I can't even fit in among other autistic people?

Everyone, from my mom to my psychiatrist to my therapist, magically expects me to feel better when I'm around other neuroatypical people...yet I find it just as hard to make friends with them as I do with "normal" people...they feel just as fundamentally different from me.

Autism is in large part a communication disorder.

Now if your ability to communicate (whether to send, receive, or both) is impaired with normal people, why on God's green earth would anyone expect things to be different with other people with communication disorders, be it autism or anything else!

:facepalm:

I'm pretty sure people just think: "Mental and physical disabilities A, B and C benefit from support groups, therefore so will mental disability D." My experience has been much like systemready's, that that logic really doesn't apply to autism spectrum disorders. People with autism have drastically different levels of social impairment and overall function; putting them together based solely only the autism diagnosis isn't going to result in a group with many commonalities.

For example, I usually converse better with more outgoing, i.e non-autistic, people. They do the heavy lifting of initiating and keeping things going so that I don't have to.

I'm not sure why this particular post is being downvoted. The only thing I can think of is that stating that autism is a communication disorder may be misleading, depending on how that statement is interpreted. Autism doesn't necessarily mean you talk and write like a fictional cave man; high functioning autistic people can be as clear and eloquent as anyone else in the right environment.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

SharZee[/url]":3l6k8erl]Why the differences in autistic brains?
If autistic brains have been developmentally damaged/impaired, the amount and impact of damage would vary and cause unique results. I propose that radiofrequency radiation is one immensely important factor in the biological impacts/damage of the brain, from autism to Alzheimer's and other brain-damaged conditions.

Evidence is in the science, but the popularity of wireless means you will not hear about it, since no precautions are being recommended by regulators. This is nothing new, think asbestos, lead paint and tobacco... To sample the science showing this kind of damage from radiofrequency/microwaves FAR BELOW what is allowed, please view Dr. Erica Mallery-Blythe's 2014 talk on children and emr at youtube. See also Dr. Leif Salford's presentation there on his long-term work on blood brain barrier and radiofrequency damage, which causes leaking. For consumer friendly site, see BabySafe Project. And for cutting edge science showing results in mice of very brief wifi exposure see at Medical Symposium at C4ST the informal study by Dr. Hugh Taylor of Yale.

Those charged with protecting lives are more interested in innovations, fun and profit. The brain damage has only just begun. FCC is allowing DAS antennas (small cellular antennas) to build out wireless infrastructure quicker EVERYWHERE. This means more damage to the public, esp. children and all future generations. Once DNA is damaged it impacts all generations.

Some believe that infertility and genetic damage is intended to cut back human populations. Who knows? It certainly appears that the utter lies of regulatory officials and industry will result plenty of harm to individuals and the human species, in general.

Wired, cable and fiber allow access that is 100% SAFE. Why aren't officials building these out? Whatever the reason, the results spell disaster.

I can assure you that 30 something years ago, when there were no cell signals, wifi signals, and about less than 10 channels of tv, didn't stop me from having a form of AS.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

Leid[/url]":2fo5rh92]

Theala Sildorian[/url]":2fo5rh92]

systemsready[/url]":2fo5rh92]Huh. Does this possibly explain why I can't even fit in among other autistic people?

Everyone, from my mom to my psychiatrist to my therapist, magically expects me to feel better when I'm around other neuroatypical people...yet I find it just as hard to make friends with them as I do with "normal" people...they feel just as fundamentally different from me.

Autism is in large part a communication disorder.

Now if your ability to communicate (whether to send, receive, or both) is impaired with normal people, why on God's green earth would anyone expect things to be different with other people with communication disorders, be it autism or anything else!

:facepalm:

I'm not sure why this particular post is being downvoted. The only thing I can think of is that stating that autism is a communication disorder may be misleading, depending on how that statement is interpreted. Autism doesn't necessarily mean you talk and write like a fictional cave man; high functioning autistic people can be as clear and eloquent as anyone else in the right environment.

AS has obvious issues with communication, but I think different as well. My obsession with electronics and tinkering with mechanical or electrical or software in general, I feel is also linked to it.