Tesla CEO says he’ll pay more to speed up LA freeway widening: “I’v

Massive construction project is over-budget, delayed beyond projected deadline.

Read the whole story

 

[wallinbl]

DrunkOnDuty[/url]":1uwldua9]I've known some of the project managers for the prime (Kiewit) and other civil infrastructure projects. When Kiewit says that the problem is securing the rights-of-way, that is in fact the problem. Convincing a neighborhood to sell you their houses so that you can destroy them and build a freeway isn't something that happens overnight. One person can hold it up and add months. Ultimately the prime has to procure the land on the open market.

Presumably, you do this before you break ground and start screwing up traffic.

 

[beebee]

bothered[/url]":1hrnzc6w]

Jackattak[/url]":1hrnzc6w]History tells us that if they build more lanes, people fill them with more cars.

That's completely counter-productive.

Have you driven on the 405 during rush hour? There are already too many cars for the capacity of that road.

What do you suggest? If you say public transportation then you obviously haven't lived in L.A.

Now get out of my lane.

As an occasional user of the 405, it is a testament to cooperation of the hive that so many cars fit in such a small space with relatively few accidents. People in LA know how to drive.

Regarding Musk, he is one of a few CEOs I won't diss. Other than Paypal, his companies actually do engineering. None of this stupid dotcom crap that really does little to make the world a better place. (I'm looking at you, Facebook.)

Musk owns a jet and is a regular at KSJC, probably to get to Telsa in Fremont. He just needs to get a chopper for LA.

 

[mr_fnord]

DrunkOnDuty[/url]":3az1b1b8]

enraged_camel[/url]":3az1b1b8]From the sounds of it, the problem is not lack of money, but the sheer incompetence of the contractor(s).

I've known some of the project managers for the prime (Kiewit) and other civil infrastructure projects. When Kiewit says that the problem is securing the rights-of-way, that is in fact the problem. Convincing a neighborhood to sell you their houses so that you can destroy them and build a freeway isn't something that happens overnight. One person can hold it up and add months. Ultimately the prime has to procure the land on the open market.

When they say the project has ballooned to $1.1b, it isn't because the contractor dragged their feet to get more money. The contractor pays to buy the land. When they shut down the freeways, or lanes of the freeway, they have to rent it from the municipality. So for example, want to shut down that off-ramp for an hour because that is what you have to do? Pay CalTrans (or whoever their DOT is) the rental fee.

This isn't how eminent domain works. A contractor doesn't ask people to sell their land. A government tells people that they are going to take their land to fulfill a necessity, and makes an offer of a "fair" price. The owner can argue about the price or not, but eminent domain condemnation happens anyway and the construction goes ahead, while the negotiations or court battles can take years to iron out the exact value of a parcel of land. Therefore, cost can go up, but timelines for construction of any major infrastructure project include time for condemnation.

Looking at the CalTrans project website, the 405 project closure schedule looks comparable to the TxDOT DFW Connector project. I guess the 405 is newsworthy because a rich guy complains about it?

 

[wiz420]

xwindowsjunkie[/url]":3qnsx5r4]

Arty50 wrote:
Transportion in LA is just plain old fucked up and nothing short of getting in a time machine and preventing the Red Line from being dismantled decades ago is going to fix it.

Yeah, it was the weasels and the 'toon judge that caused it all.

http://99percentinvisible.org/post/4026 ... conspiracy

This is a pretty interesting perspective on that old canard...

 

[dfflick]

enraged_camel[/url]":3j4p2i0j]From the sounds of it, the problem is not lack of money, but the sheer incompetence of the contractor(s).

Kiewit (headquartered 4 blocks from my home) is one of the few examples of a contractor that does NOT suck.

 

[milliamp]

I work in a rural area and my company seems to hate that our branch is not in a city. I get to work in under a minute.

I did the commute thing once and hated it. If you work 10+ hour days 6 days a week and have a 1 hour commute each way on top of it what is the point of even having money? To buy a house you only occasionally get to see?

I wish more companies would be willing to move out the cities. It isn't practical to have millions of people working in the same district without running into problems with traffic and parking.

 

[Pubert]

Jackattak[/url]":2hd6whx7]History tells us that if they build more lanes, people fill them with more cars.

That's completely counter-productive.

Totally agree.
If you want an increase in productivity, you take the flubbing managers out and shoot them in front of the employees. You'd be absolutely flabbergasted at the increase in motivation and productivity.

Works wonders in China.

And yes, this is being done.

 

[rdamiani]

killing_time[/url]":3mmtd84s]"commute between his home in Bel-Air and his Space Exploration Technologies factory "

oh to have that problem.

If he wanted a shorter (and more pleasant) commute he should by a mansion in Palos Verdies. It's lots nicer than Bel-Air. Cheaper, too.

 

[rdamiani]

Jackattak[/url]":3kle23q8]History tells us that if they build more lanes, people fill them with more cars.

That's completely counter-productive.

This (seemingly decades) long project won't actually add any lanes. What it will do when it's done is extend the existing HOV lane from I-105 to I-10 so there is a continuous HOV lane along I-405. It won't add any light rail. It won't add any bus express lanes. It won't add any 'regular' lanes. It won't improve CA-90 or remove the stoplights on it. All it will do is extend an HOV lane.

Meanwhile, L.A. still lacks a rail line that goes to the airport, is still missing a segment of I-710 (this forces freeway traffic onto surface streets and into residential neighborhoods), and the 'Subway to the Sea' stops something like 3 miles short. There are no plans to fix any of these.

There are lots and lots of worthy transportation projects in L.A. county. Adding an HOV lane to I-405 has never been one of them.

 

[wmgries]

Panick[/url]":f3yr6n85]One would think he could telecommute for all the good an "executive" is going to do a "space exploration" company. Telecommute most days and visit on random days to keep the engineers on their toes. Surely you don't need to be there all the time.

That.... or buy yourself a helicopter.

Not convinced of that. People in management (or creative roles) need to have meetings in person. I've been convinced of this after working mostly remotely (part time though) the last couple of years. Comparing my work (personally), I'm without a doubt more productive in person, even though I feel more distracted because of spontaneous discussion and requests from co-workers. Turns out those chats with people actually are very valuable and my co-workers often had great ideas on how to improve my software.

Remote work has it's place; because of the internal politics at my employer, this position would have been unfilled had I not worked remotely while in college. Surely less productivity is worth it if the alternative is zero productivity.

 

[Durf]

LA should indeed be pouring money into public transportation networks, not into road expansion projects that please automaker CEOs.

 

[tdlf]

beebee[/url]":1u5s7rs8]

bothered[/url]":1u5s7rs8]

Jackattak[/url]":1u5s7rs8]History tells us that if they build more lanes, people fill them with more cars.

That's completely counter-productive.

Have you driven on the 405 during rush hour? There are already too many cars for the capacity of that road.

What do you suggest? If you say public transportation then you obviously haven't lived in L.A.

Now get out of my lane.

As an occasional user of the 405, it is a testament to cooperation of the hive that so many cars fit in such a small space with relatively few accidents. People in LA know how to drive...

No, they really don't. It's one of the many places I've lived that people can't seem to figure out how to merge. Absolute idiocy and incompetence are a huge part of the traffic situation in L.A. at both the government and citizen level. I took public transit for a while to try to avoid the bad traffic out here. And when you can drive to work faster in rush hour traffic than public transit will get you where you need to go... things are really messed up.

In NorCal, they at least had the sense to limit road construction to late at night, so construction isn't occurring when people are trying to get to work and back.

 

[Squeeman]

wmgries[/url]":39uz77pp]

Panick[/url]":39uz77pp]One would think he could telecommute for all the good an "executive" is going to do a "space exploration" company. Telecommute most days and visit on random days to keep the engineers on their toes. Surely you don't need to be there all the time.

That.... or buy yourself a helicopter.

Not convinced of that. People in management (or creative roles) need to have meetings in person.

Also, as Chief Designer, Elon should have a lot more involvement in the design and manufacturing process than your average CEO. Hence a lot more in-the-office time.

 

[rdamiani]

Holland Rhodes[/url]":2mo83lkr]"known locally as the 405 Freeway"

I'd like to point out that it *is* the 405 freeway. Its official name is not something else, but us locals like to call it the 405. I'll help you rewrite that part:

"accelerate the widening of interstate 405, a major north-south freeway located in southern California."

The 405 doesn't even go through Los Angeles proper.

Edit: I realise the 405 runs through Los Angeles city limits but not through areas with a "Los Angeles, CA" address (that I'm aware of)

The airport, Hollywood, West Los Angeles, and the San Fernando Valley are all part of 'Los Angeles' and are inside the city limits. The 405 runs right through them. Plus there is Harbor Gateway to the south. All of these areas have (or can optionally use) 'Los Angeles, CA' addresses. My office in Eagle Rock is like that, too. The post office will deliver stuff marked 'Eagle Rock, CA' or 'Los Angeles. CA' just fine. I use the former for people from SoCal, and the latter for people from out-of-state.

 

[tdlf]

rdamiani[/url]":1y268qxr]

Jackattak[/url]":1y268qxr]History tells us that if they build more lanes, people fill them with more cars.

That's completely counter-productive.

This (seemingly decades) long project won't actually add any lanes. What it will do when it's done is extend the existing HOV lane from I-105 to I-10 so there is a continuous HOV lane along I-405. It won't add any light rail. It won't add any bus express lanes. It won't add any 'regular' lanes. It won't improve CA-90 or remove the stoplights on it. All it will do is extend an HOV lane.

Meanwhile, L.A. still lacks a rail line that goes to the airport, is still missing a segment of I-710 (this forces freeway traffic onto surface streets and into residential neighborhoods), and the 'Subway to the Sea' stops something like 3 miles short. There are no plans to fix any of these.

There are lots and lots of worthy transportation projects in L.A. county. Adding an HOV lane to I-405 has never been one of them.

Yes, I'd say to Musk to help pay for two things if he's feeling like giving donations.

1. Help to increase the number of subway and rail stops and lines in L.A. The existing ones are great, but they need extensions and better coverage.

2. Express bus lines with dedicated buses for working professionals. You'd get more commuters using the bus system if they didn't have to sit next to a guy that hasn't bathed in 3 weeks.

 

[theotherjim]

_Taz_[/url]":1hoxhjmk]Pah! This is Elon Musk... surely this is the impetus we need to get investment in JetPacks! I've been promised that the future will have Jetpacks since the 1950's -- and I still don't have one!
Elon -- quit farting around with electric cars, and get started on those Jetpacks -- then we won't need the 405!

(waves fingers) This IS the jetpack you are looking for...

http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php

 

[ws3]

openaperture[/url]":34uhfyea]He doesn't understand that the unions getting extraordinary pay increases and endless benefits for life is the priority in this state.

If only we could get rid of unions and everyone could get crappy pay and no benefits.

 

[mikebaz]

Perhaps the delay is because they forgot where they buried fiber and they are having to dig it all back up to find it.

 

[new2mac]

Two Words: Andres Duany

Watch this presentation and have your eyes opened. You'll never look at this problem the same way again.

 

[scooby509]

youngfrey[/url]":2p2bagfj]

DrunkOnDuty[/url]":2p2bagfj]

Jackattak[/url]":2p2bagfj]History tells us that if they build more lanes, people fill them with more cars.

That's completely counter-productive.

Actually, that only happens if it allows a new neighborhood. If it only serves an established area, it reduces congestion.

From what I read, at any moment, some people are choosing not to drive based on the traffic level. When you build more capacity, some of those people will now decide to drive. Whether or not that brings the road back to its old level depends on the situation.

It's basic supply and demand, except that because the roads are "free", the cost is not in currency but in the time per trip.

Simply charge a variable rate toll and the congestion will go away overnight.

 

[BuckyOhare]

Jackattak[/url]":yliu480c]History tells us that if they build more lanes, people fill them with more cars.

That's completely counter-productive.

History tells us that if we increase the bandwidth pipe, people fill it with more activity.

 

[XavierItzmann]

Meh.

Get a Maybach with a 6 liter V12 and a driver. Stop whining.

BTW, the driver will come in handy when they open the stupid HOV lane. Hopefully the HOV is a 1+1 type. If the environazis make it a 1+2, then ask your secretary to show up to work in Bel Air.

 

[Vapur9]

It takes 3 months to build a 100-story skyscraper. It takes 10 years to build a 2-mile road. One involves multiple types of materials, the other just tar and rocks. Go figure.

 

[Vapur9]

Durf[/url]":1cpn4vol]LA should indeed be pouring money into public transportation networks, not into road expansion projects that please automaker CEOs.

[mod=trolling]The people who created the problem want more!

That's kind of the theme with politicos ... prohibition, gun-free zones, etc.[/mod]

 

[continuum]

I've driven 405 many times during non-rush hour times, and yeah, busy highway, but not bad at all unless there's a wreck or stalled junker.

Depends what times and directions, though. Weekdays southbound on that stretch there are plenty of times it's moving freely, but northbound, particularly between 90 (or even as far south as 105/LAX) and 101 it gets ugly and stays ugly...

I have certainly experienced much worse in places like Austin or Long Island.

Or Houston. LMAO, this is true!

: I realise the 405 runs through Los Angeles city limits but not through areas with a "Los Angeles, CA" address (that I'm aware of)

It absolutely does run through areas of the City of Los Angeles proper.

Pah! This is Elon Musk... surely this is the impetus we need to get investment in JetPacks!

And hovercars!!

If he wanted a shorter (and more pleasant) commute he should by a mansion in Palos Verdies. It's lots nicer than Bel-Air. Cheaper, too.

I dunno, coworkers who live in RPV say they need 20+ minutes just to get to a freeway...

LA should indeed be pouring money into public transportation networks, not into road expansion projects that please automaker CEOs.

LA is doing exactly that. A massive public transportation expansion is currently underway-- Expo line phase 1 opened last year, Expo line phase 2 is well underway, the Westside Subway Expansion is under construction...

 

[Andara]

continuum[/url]":36irwkus]
I dunno, coworkers who live in RPV say they need 20+ minutes just to get to a freeway...

My ex used to work in RPV, and it does, indeed, take a long time, at 25mph, just to get out of RPV.

 

[Tempor]

Holland Rhodes[/url]":3elkkrwo]"known locally as the 405 Freeway"

I'd like to point out that it *is* the 405 freeway. Its official name is not something else, but us locals like to call it the 405. I'll help you rewrite that part:

"accelerate the widening of interstate 405, a major north-south freeway located in southern California."

The 405 doesn't even go through Los Angeles proper.

Edit: I realise the 405 runs through Los Angeles city limits but not through areas with a "Los Angeles, CA" address (that I'm aware of)

The 405 also exists in WA and OR.

 

[abhi_beckert]

PurpleNinjaCakes[/url]":3iw1nnw8]Get a motorcycle. Better yet, build one. I'd buy it, EBikes suck so far...

His route has the worst traffic in the USA and you think he should buy a motorcycle?

I don't own a car and commute to work on my bike every day, but even I probably wouldn't be willing to ride in that sort of traffic. I'd rather quit my job than risk my life.

 

[Zinger1]

Jackattak[/url]":1maekw5y]History tells us that if they build more lanes, people fill them with more cars.

That's completely counter-productive.

Actually it's extremely productive, more people getting to where they need to go to work and create in less time. Even if it fills with more cars, it means more people are more free to live where they want and waste less time in there cars.

 

[keath]

Jackattak[/url]":3f0ye82s]History tells us that if they build more lanes, people fill them with more cars.

That's completely counter-productive.

Well, except the state won't let them put cars in those new lanes.

They build them as car-pool lanes, or "high occupancy vehicle" lanes. I think it's time they face the fact that it's just not incentive enough for people to somehow find a neighbor driving the same 60 mile commute as them each day.

Letting everyone into those stupid lanes is the only way at getting some short-term relief.

(I bailed out of the Southern California commuting scene years ago, but the memory still burns.)

 

[hobgoblin]

Jackattak[/url]":vh4yqgqw]History tells us that if they build more lanes, people fill them with more cars.

That's completely counter-productive.

Yet observed in many fields.

Consider for instance that people often leave more efficient light systems running for longer, meaning that replacing one with the other will have little to no observable effect on overall electricity consumption.

 

[Al Luwahey]

The costs and schedule impacts are the result of the project's overall complexity and the significant challenges associated with multiple unexpected utility and right-of-way issues,

ya, sure. unexpected by whom? the planners of the project? A billion dollar plan doesn't check right of ways on highway construction?

sheez howdy, triple dipping the public has to cease.

 

[Rhonin]

kranchammer[/url]":34amannb]Ya think he'd be able to pick his drive times better, being CEO and all.
I've driven 405 many times during non-rush hour times, and yeah, busy highway, but not bad at all unless there's a wreck or stalled junker.
I have certainly experienced much worse in places like Austin or Long Island.

Been to both, driven both (live in Playa Del Rey) and the 405 is a zoo. The worst part is it takes freaking forever formthese morons to get off their collecive asses and finish these projects.

[end rant]

 

[RoninX]

Jackattak[/url]":354szxxi]History tells us that if they build more lanes, people fill them with more cars.

That's completely counter-productive.

That's like saying, "If you increase the width of a pipe, it'll just fill up with water." Of course it will, but that's the point -- you get more throughput.

 

[Seraphiel]

Traffic jams happen because people don't know how to drive. Merging, maintaining sensible distance, and other basic concepts are just completely lost on most humans.

One person following too closely combined with one person trying to do a sloppy last-second merge into the next lane can cause a wave to propagate back through the mass of cars as everyone has to slam on their brakes.

So long as we're stuck with non-flying cars, the only remaining solution is for them to drive themselves and coordinate with each other.

 

[Leather Rope]

Musk is a rich arrogant jerk who has lost touch with reality.

 

[Dig1tal_Cataclysm]

As a New England resident, all I have to say is: "Bah. Talk to me after you've dealt with a traffic project that's lasted 15+years, and run over-budget by several BILLION dollars".

I can *slightly* sympathize with the current horrible traffic snarls in L.A., but it can't begin to compare with what residents in Massachusetts (Bostonians or not) have had to - and continue - to pay for one of the all-time greatest FUBAR's in history.

 

[BlackHex]

Jackattak[/url]":2ygsmgqz]History tells us that if they build more lanes, people fill them with more cars.

That's completely counter-productive.

It also shows that introducing significant congestion charges reduces the overload by making people think twice about their journey and by making other transportation means more financially viable.

But I don't see that being a politically expedient thing to do in a country world renowned for its love of the motor car.

 

[BlackHex]

Leather Rope[/url]":3gfy1cak]Musk is a rich arrogant jerk who has lost touch with reality.

I hate to feed the trolls... but... whuh?

We clamour all the time for the rich to chip in and help out with their money... what do you actually want him to do?