Surface Pro 2: Less than a laptop

The heart of a laptop it may be, but I want the body of a laptop too.

Read the whole story

 

[Goofball_Jones]

I'm seriously looking at getting this. Docking it with an external monitor and bluetooth keyboard for desktop, then being able to just unplug and have it as a tablet.

I've had an iPad, which my wife currently has. And I have a Nexus 7. I'm currently looking for a laptop to replace my 27" iMac, but the Surface Pro 2 really caught my eye. I've been exclusive with Macs now for 7 years...before that a mix of Windows, Linux, Mac...so now I'd like to branch out to other things, just to see. Hell, I may come screaming back to the Mac, but I'll never know that if I don't stick my neck out a bit.

It's expensive, yeah, but it's in my budget. I may actually get this. 8 gigs of RAM, 256 SSD, and the ability to run Photoshop with a Wacom pen. Plus I can run my real Chrome with all it's extensions in tact. I'm in.

I think....

 

[tipoo]

This is exactly my sentiment. The Surface Pro 2 does prove they have great hardware chops, but I want them to actually make a proper ultrabook with a proper adjustable hinge (not just two angles).

They could keep the touchscreen in there and have it able to fold back like the Yoga if they wanted.

 

[Viking ZX]

What I'd like to know is how well it does actually running some of these normally desktop/laptop programs. For example, how well can it run Dota 2?

 

[Snarky Robot]

I can't disagree with any of the larger points that have been raised against it. I honestly can't. But I absolutely love my Surface Pro 2. It has, entirely, replaced my MacBook Air. I loaded up Steam and GestureWorks (and excellent addition) and all I can say is that I'm happy. I make no promises to anybody else that it will fit their work paradigm. I make no commentary that those who don't like it are wrong. But I love mine.

I got mine the same day Mavericks dropped, so I spent my day juggling computers setting them both up. Within 10 minutes of using the Surface, I was actually frustrated the MBA didn't have a touchscreen. Since I got it set up, I haven't touched my custom-built rig (I do, however, frequently remote desktop into it-- something that's I could possibly have done with the Surface 2, but I wanted portable power).

Peter's article points out several flaws. I agree that there are some annoying bits about it (which computer can you NOT say that about?). But I logged in, had all of my apps ready to be installed, had access to all my documents, and installed Office in about 10 minutes.

I make no promises that anyone else will love it. It has warts, no doubt. All I can say is that my experience was much different than Peter's, insofar as the fact that for me, it wound up being much greater than the sum of its parts.

 

[BioTurboNick]

Regarding the trackpad:

You do get used to the dimensions, but the issue I have is that it is too easy to slide a finger off the click-panel and disengage in the middle of a click-and-drag operation. I hope this is something they can address with a firmware update, simply by 'locking' the finger into a click until it is lifted from the pad.

 

[Snarky Robot]

Viking ZX[/url]":3vrhr1pl]What I'd like to know is how well it does actually running some of these normally desktop/laptop programs. For example, how well can it run Dota 2?

It's run DOTA 2 pretty well for me, main gripe has been the fact that it only has a single USB 3.0 port on it, so you have to use a USB splitter if you run a wired K+M setup. I also installed GestureWorks, which takes some getting used to (and the Surface Pro is just a bit too heavy for prolonged use as a tablet) but you can use it to augment. It actually works really well as a living room augmentation. Personally, I'm looking forward to trying the Steam Machine controller with it.

It's not face-melting performance, by any standards. But it's good enough that you can hook it up to a 1080p monitor and not feel like you're loosing too much graphics-wise.

 

[yushii]

I think 2 different angles is enough for 90% of daily use of a laptop/tablet.
The thing is that i can use Surface with a tiny tiny bit of change in my usual working positon and it's worth it. There are so many pros like You can actualy work with a full windows pc on your hands while standing. Yes it's hard to keep it on your lap but i think on the laps i see in the pictures, even a regular laptop is hard to work with.

 

[papadage]

This is the reason I opted for the Lenovo Helix instead. It may not have Haswell, but the battery life is at least 5 hours as a tablet, and almost 8 hours docked as a laptop. It also has the Lenovo TouchPoint and a real keyboard, as well as being usable on your lap.

 

[BadSuperblock]

I think the Surface was cool and the Surface Pro 2 even cooler and much more practical, but I can't get over the irony.

Microsoft designed the Surface as a tablet that can be a laptop, and markets this as an advantage over the iPad, but it isn't great on the lap.

I have an iPad, and it turns out a great keyboard lid costs a lot less than the Surface keyboard cover (well under $100), and because of the way the iPad magnetically seats into the keyboard lid slot, it has a great deal of structural integrity and versatility. I can type on the iPad with the keyboard lid on my lap and there is no more danger of falling off than a laptop (actually less slippage because it's lighter), and I can easily pick up the combo with one hand and it won't fall apart.

In the end, it's easier and cheaper to turn an iPad into a laptop than it is to use the device that was supposed to be better than the iPad in that way, the Surface.

 

[DrPizza]

Viking ZX[/url]":20r9c3c3]What I'd like to know is how well it does actually running some of these normally desktop/laptop programs. For example, how well can it run Dota 2?

Very well, as long as you pair it with an external mouse. But you don't want to run Dota 2 at 1920x1080 on that screen--parts of the UI become uncomfortably small.

Even at 1366x768, though, the screen is just plain _small_. The game works, and I've played it this way, and it's better than not being able to play Dota 2 at all (because life without Dota 2 would be an empty, hollow thing). But it's _much_ harder than it is on even a 13" laptop (let alone my 24" desktop), because it's simply hard to see what's going on. When you're trying to eyeball creep health for last hits, or cast spells in a hectic team fight, it's just _hard_.

 

[Snarky Robot]

Also, since I'm sure Peter has more important things to do, if anybody has any specific questions about it, just ask, and I'll do my best to answer the at some point in the near future. No promises, of course, but I will try my best.

 

[SiberX]

I've always been a big fan of the Thinkpad convertible Tablet PCs (ever since an X41T that I used in university for note-taking) but Lenovo's recent design changes to the line have made it clear they're no longer interested in producing a capable work ultraportable convertible. I currently use an X220T, and its design flaws are just tolerable enough that I can still use the system without constant annoyance - its successors are worse.

The Surface Pro 2 is *almost* an excellent replacement in this role, but the lack of a pen silo and the keyboard/hinge/trackpad situation is a definite deal-breaker for me. If they sold an alternative "cover" that provided a hinge and held the bottom edge of the tablet (a la Asus Transformer) and provided somewhere sensible on the tablet itself to keep the pen then I'd be all over it. I can even dream of them including a trackpoint, but I'd honestly probably settle for a trackpad if it was at least a good one.

 

[jhoff80]

I'm sure it's just an oversight, but the "Surface Pro 2 on the lap" photos are clearly not actually a Pro as seen by the USB port on the right side of the device and what appears to be the silver bodied device (aka Surface 2). I'm aware that it doesn't change anything with regard to lap use for you, but it is still incorrect.

Personally I'm 6'1. I had zero issue with the Pro on my lap. The new kickstand position is definitely nice now that I have a Pro 2, but it wasn't ever necessary for me for lap use (in fact the only place I've used the new position so far is with the device next to me on a couch or bed). I know that it's different for some people, but the form factor has (again, for me) had zero drawbacks with tons of advantages.

As for the screen size, you complain about 150% not showing enough content (something I agree fully with) and 100% being too small. Hmm, if only there were some sort of middle ground like 125% or something.

I do completely agree that the trackpad on the covers isn't great, but it's definitely serviceable. Still, I wish the Type Cover 2 used a TrackPoint instead.

 

[tigerhawkvok]

I'm just itching for the Transformer Book Trio, but if it doesn't come out this year I may spring for a Surface Pro 2.

 

[Jousle]

Indeed. It seems that Microsoft is not nailing it . I rather have a full tablet experience and a full desktop (or laptop) experience than a half backed tablet+desktop experience in just one device that tries to be both. I still do not get windows 8, is awkward to use

 

[DrPizza]

jhoff80[/url]":2j9hugxw]I'm sure it's just an oversight, but the "Surface Pro 2 on the lap" photos are clearly not actually a Pro as seen by the USB port on the right side of the device and what appears to be the silver bodied device (aka Surface 2). I'm aware that it doesn't change anything with regard to lap use for you, but it is still incorrect.

The Pro was running through its battery tests at the time, so you're correct; the laptop is a Lenovo Helix, the tablet is a Surface 2. I've amended the captions accordingly.

 

[peterford]

What Peter seems to be suggesting here is that pro-consumer hybrid laptop / tablets can't work. Make the screen big enough for proper work and the tablet is too big, make the tablet small enough to use, and you don't have enough space for proper work. If so, this really disappoints me as it's what I really want!

 

[cgalyon]

I find it useful, but I think I was already willing to make a concession that not everyone would. For serious work, I have a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse and set it on my desk. Hook it into a monitor and it's good to go (wish I could do that wirelessly, but only two plugs isn't such a bad thing). At other times, like surfing on the couch or something, it works as a handy tablet. I don't feel the need to have separate devices anymore. I really like that, and I believe it hits the sweet spot pretty well there. I would not use it to try to do serious work (e.g., data analysis) on my lap, but I never found a laptop that was satisfactory in that regard either. I do believe a laptop will serve better if you wish to write papers from your lap (because of the keyboard problems noted by Peter).

One question, did you try using the pen instead of a trackpad? The precision is good for tapping things. Agreed, though, that it would be nice to have a real home for the pen.

 

[Mitlov]

peterford[/url]":2cfbjhrx]What Peter seems to be suggesting here is that pro-consumer hybrid laptop / tablets can't work. Make the screen big enough for proper work and the tablet is too big, make the tablet small enough to use, and you don't have enough space for proper work. If so, this really disappoints me as it's what I really want!

They CAN work, because what's "small enough to be a tablet" and "what's big enough for work" are very subjective. For some people, there's an overlap on the Venn diagram. For others, there isn't. For me, there's an overlap at 11.6"...I've been using a Vaio Duo 11 for a year in both roles.

 

[JButler]

Do you really use a laptop like in that picture? Seems like just a matter of time before it slides off your lap and break.

And how often do we really use laptops on our lap anyway? I suppose we do on occasion, but isn't it precisely because they are just laptops which you can't use in any other way in such situation? With hybrids like this, you can just use it as a tablet and don't worry about it falling off.

 

[sidran32]

I kind of knew going into this article that your view probably wouldn't be much changed from when you reviewed the original Surface Pro. I was right. However, you wrote this in a very balanced way. You're correct in that if you want something that's a laptop, then you probably should get one so that you can take advantage of what the larger form factor allows (screen real estate/larger onscreen elements, variable hinge, and better lap-top usability). I always thought it was strange to use the Surface class of devices with kickstand deployed on a lap. It seems to me that you'd require a steady, flat surface to get stability with that kind of thing. Because it has a very small point of contact with your lap and the lack of a stiff hinge between the keyboard and screen, a small bump or shift would seem to collapse it. Similarly, you couldn't use it perched at angles (like if I'm laying diagonally on a couch with my legs crossed, and have my laptop perched accordingly).

That's where it really falls short. Some people need that kind of rigid structure because they prefer to use it that way. But also as you said, not everyone has the same kind of use case in mind or environmental situation. In tablet form, I would likely use it laying flat on my lap, with the aid of the stylus for precise pointing and minor text input. I can pop up the on-screen keyboard for more typing-related tasks every now and then (as I do on my VAIO, which I expect to replace soon) and can touch-type relatively comfortably on it. If I'm typing for extended periods, it's because I'm probably working (programming), and in that case I'd have it docked at a desk, anyway.

That said, I do hope that Microsoft will eventually update the keyboard covers (or release a new version) that holds the tablet in place and provides a stiff hinge, like some other OEMs have done. The kickstand is great and all in certain circumstances, but sometimes you just need that laptop form factor.

P.S.: I said I expect to replace my VAIO soon. It'll be with a Surface Pro 2.

 

[JButler]

I think some people are missing the key point here. With Surface Pro 2, you can connect to an external keyboard and monitor setup and have a full desktop experience. All this while you have a legitimate tablet with desktop-class performance. There's no other device that let you do that beside SP2 (and a few other Windows 8 devices from Sony, Lenovo, etc.). For many people, this saves a lot of money and simplifies your life because you don't need to buy a separate tablet, laptop and perhaps even a desktop PC.

 

[wwwebsurfer]

I think the Surface Pro line has always suffered under the same faults as a Google Chromebook. They're extremely capable *second* devices that fill a niche that neither a laptop, desktop or tablet fall into.

One example I use frequently is having access to native, familiar tools from a more portable form factor. When an EC2 box is misbehaving I can open up a real-deal copy of Putty and have things back in shape usually with a few commands. The problem is finding a tablet edition of a SSH client that accepts .ppk keys is near impossible, not to mention having to learn a new interface with it's own quirks and dealing with security problems from greedy app developers that think their fart sound machine needs access to my entire device and contact list.

While the gaps on what a tablet can be used for versus a laptop continue to close, the truth is that it's extremely hard to work in a professional environment and get things done without a solid remote desktop link to your real computer. This attempts to close that gap, promising any program runs fine -- on a relatively tiny screen and slow processor, even when you're off the local wifi connection.

Now bring the price down to Surface RT territory and we can talk. No one can talk their boss into $1000 each for non-critical devices.

 

[bsharp]

Goofball_Jones[/url]":1opelfv9]I'm seriously looking at getting this. Docking it with an external monitor and bluetooth keyboard for desktop, then being able to just unplug and have it as a tablet.

I've had an iPad, which my wife currently has. And I have a Nexus 7. I'm currently looking for a laptop to replace my 27" iMac, but the Surface Pro 2 really caught my eye. I've been exclusive with Macs now for 7 years...before that a mix of Windows, Linux, Mac...so now I'd like to branch out to other things, just to see. Hell, I may come screaming back to the Mac, but I'll never know that if I don't stick my neck out a bit.

It's expensive, yeah, but it's in my budget. I may actually get this. 8 gigs of RAM, 256 SSD, and the ability to run Photoshop with a Wacom pen. Plus I can run my real Chrome with all it's extensions in tact. I'm in.

I think....

Be warned, chrome is only usable on a surface pro (any touch screen device?) if you intend to use a mouse or the stylus. The stable release has HORRIBLE touch support. There is a dev version that I've got installed that helps, but it is not stable.

 

[FlyinFungi]

I thought Microsoft OS had horrible battery life?
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2013/1 ... -life.html

Now I am confused...

 

[beefgyorki]

It would be the perfect device for me if Microsoft could add these things:

1) Pen silo obviously, while the current method feels sturdy I still have little faith in it

2) If they added a way to connect & use an external discrete GPU, maybe in a docking station or via Thunderbolt?, I would be hard pressed to justify buying a desktop again

3) I'd like to see them add a more rugged keyboard accessory that could support the Surface without needing to use the kickstand, thus addressing the viewing angle & footprint problems when trying to use it on your lap

With that said I did get one, it's not perfect but it is the closet thing to it to date....for me at least

 

[sidran32]

FlyinFungi[/url]":fsg5ontw]I thought Microsoft OS had horrible battery life?
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2013/1 ... -life.html

Now I am confused...

Perhaps if Microsoft got the battery life issue fixed, it would be even better than it is now?

 

[alxx]

BadSuperblock[/url]":27evsorj]I think the Surface was cool and the Surface Pro 2 even cooler and much more practical, but I can't get over the irony.

Microsoft designed the Surface as a tablet that can be a laptop, and markets this as an advantage over the iPad, but it isn't great on the lap.

I have an iPad, and it turns out a great keyboard lid costs a lot less than the Surface keyboard cover (well under $100), and because of the way the iPad magnetically seats into the keyboard lid slot, it has a great deal of structural integrity and versatility. I can type on the iPad with the keyboard lid on my lap and there is no more danger of falling off than a laptop (actually less slippage because it's lighter), and I can easily pick up the combo with one hand and it won't fall apart.

In the end, it's easier and cheaper to turn an iPad into a laptop than it is to use the device that was supposed to be better than the iPad in that way, the Surface.

Thats great if the software you need is available.
Unfortunately for some of us its not and its only on x86.
Plus no compilers on most consumer tablets and no decent cad programs.

For half my job a ipad or android tablet is okay (but a bit limited and a bit annoying especially if you need to switch between 3 - 5 apps quickly ) - web development and networking
but for the engineering side they are only good for datasheets and a 12" version would be a lot better for datasheets.

If you've never used a slate pc for at least a month non-stop you don't realize how good they can be
especially for notes, drawings, sketches ,design logs, reviewing documents
One note is Microsoft's best program hands down but it needs a tablet with pen support.

 

[Fritzed]

tipoo[/url]":1g3bzmt3]This is exactly my sentiment. The Surface Pro 2 does prove they have great hardware chops, but I want them to actually make a proper ultrabook with a proper adjustable hinge (not just two angles).

They could keep the touchscreen in there and have it able to fold back like the Yoga if they wanted.

A version of the surface pro with a true laptop style hinge that retains the quality touch screen would be an instant buy for me. (As long as I can wipe windows off of it, but I recognize that's a personal preference.)

 

[althaz]

tipoo[/url]":325iclz3]This is exactly my sentiment. The Surface Pro 2 does prove they have great hardware chops, but I want them to actually make a proper ultrabook with a proper adjustable hinge (not just two angles).

They could keep the touchscreen in there and have it able to fold back like the Yoga if they wanted.

You, like Peter, seem to have missed the entire point of the device.

For people who actually use a laptop as a laptop, this is not the device for you. You need (shock, horror) a laptop. I'm not saying Microsoft shouldn't make a laptop (the screen and build quality of the Surface Pro makes me certain that they should), but this isn't it.

What this device IS is a portable PC and a (rather heavy) tablet. My wife uses a Surface Pro as her primary PC. She sets it up on the kitchen table and has a fully functioning desktop PC. She doesn't want her own desktop as she wants a PC that can be packed away. Then she shifts over to the kitchen and it's a cookbook (more often a youtube recipe viewer) and when on the couch it's like any other tablet, used for checking out Facebook. These are all things that a laptop is technically capable of, but is in fact quite bad at (just like the Surface Pro is quite bad at being a laptop).

I use the Surface Pro as my in-transit entertainment so just like any other tablet. Then at work I can use it for meetings jotting down diagrams and taking notes with the surprisingly good (but still worse than a real keyboard) touch cover. At lunch time I'm going to play the just-released Football Manager 2014 on it and on the weekend I'm going to play some Starcraft 2 on it. Tonight I'll probably catch up on TV shows in bed.

There's no other device on the market clost to as good at all of these tasks as the Surface Pro (2) is.

A hinge is a must if you want to type in your lap, but if that's not something you've ever wanted to do then a hinged laptop keyboard is a massive hindrance.

There may not be much of a market for this sort of device, but I believe there is, because out of all the people I know with laptops (most of them), typing in their lap is not something most of them really do. Instead what they do is lug around a laptop where required and use their tablet for whatever they can. For those of us who don't work in-transit, this device is the best thing on the market.

Which is probably why everybody I know with one thinks it's the best tech product they've ever owned.

EDIT: I'm still reading the review, but as always I appreciate the critical eye that Peter surmises products with...I just wish he would cast the same critical eye over his own requirements, which are incredibly unique.

EDIT 2: It should be obvious to anybody who has read the review, but even people who this is aimed at should be aware that although the thickness of the device is a complete non-issue, this device is still rather heavy (not unbearably so, but too heavy to be ideal) and battery life will be an issue for some as well (Surface Pro 1 battery life for me is almost non-annoying, so Surface Pro 2 is probably fine for me).

 

[griffinme]

Why I hate my Surface RT and wish they had sprung for a Pro

http://www.microcenter.com/product/3351 ... _Converter

Networking guys everywhere would love to have a light portable device they could take around their buildings/campus/road that could talk to their Cisco switches.

 

[kot_matroskin]

great summary
after using the original surface pro that i got at work i agree. the screen is way to small for anything other than light word processing and taking notes.
I tried working with Visio and Excel, and its a complete eyesore after 30 minutes....I tried blowing the font to 150% to make it better but there is so much screen space lost its useless...
This should have been a 13 inch, minimum.
looking forward to samsung actually releasing a proper config for their series 9. what are these companies thinking - releasing great screen, 4th gen i7, yet putting 4 GB of ram and only 128 gb ssd.... someone tell samsung its 2013...

 

[alxx]

Fritzed[/url]":36drlv73]

tipoo[/url]":36drlv73]This is exactly my sentiment. The Surface Pro 2 does prove they have great hardware chops, but I want them to actually make a proper ultrabook with a proper adjustable hinge (not just two angles).

They could keep the touchscreen in there and have it able to fold back like the Yoga if they wanted.

A version of the surface pro with a true laptop style hinge that retains the quality touch screen would be an instant buy for me. (As long as I can wipe windows off of it, but I recognize that's a personal preference.)

What distros support it ?

Fedora has pretty decent wacom support
and now dassult has draftsight crossplatform finally a decent 2d cad for linux.
http://www.3ds.com/products-services/dr ... /overview/

 

[Bleeprz]

So my goal is to buy one of these. Considering that my demands aren't heavily resource intensive (Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Office, Casual Games like Team Fortress 2) and then I want a device I can take notes on and supports full Windows. Should I get this? Are there any other alternatives I should consider?

 

[DrPizza]

EDIT: I'm still reading the review, but as always I appreciate the critical eye that Peter surmises products with...I just wish he would cast the same critical eye over his own requirements, which are incredibly unique.

I don't think that "using a laptop on your lap" is unique. It's something I see pretty routinely. I also acknowledge and state explicitly that there are plenty of laptop users who merely move from desk to desk, and so wouldn't be hindered by the lack of hinge.