Supreme Court to hear Microsoft Xbox 360 console-defect case

Tens of thousands of gamers complained that the console scratched game discs.

Read the whole story

 

[MattEvansC3]

andrewsc0[/url]":1mt4zrzg]I witnessed my brothers Xbox scratch a few games years back, I was amazed at how little effort it took to destroy call of duty or whatever he was playing. If moving cars can play CDs without scratching them an Xbox should as well.

Big difference is that movement is an inherent problem for cars and needs to be a part of the design brief. It's not an inherent problem for a stationary device such as a games console or DVD player. If your car CD player scratched discs it would likely also be skipping every time you went over an uneven surface and would be useless.

Also not all cars will play discs without scratching them. My Fiesta has badly scratched EVERY CD I've put in it, whereas my Citroen doesn't.

 

[Natt]

Intermezzo[/url]":2ss5j6gg]I'm glad MS is being held accountable for this issue, but frustrated at the ineffectiveness of class action suits. They do not help those who were wronged. How are people ok with that? Why be a part of a class action when you know you won't get any real recompense at all? Seeing MS hand out millions to lawyers as punishment just doesn't do it for me.

They do however, help all consumers going forward by giving incentive to companies to not be so negligent, greedy, or otherwise assholes that it gets the crap sued out of them by class-action attorneys.

And i'm tired of the farce that claimants never get anything of value out of class actions. The National Suntrust Settlement just paid out over $1300 ea. to claimants to settle mortgage foreclosure irregularities, among other forms of restitution.

 

[Kristofff]

Discs were only scratched when moving and tilting the console while it was running.

 

[Death_wish01]

heh. I did not report my disk scratching because I moved the console when it was running. so I agree with MS that it was my fault since I knew full well that moving the device while it was on would have had consequences. (I have an IT background)

 

[raptormissle]

The 360 really was a clusterf*ck of a console. The red ring issue cost them Billions and the problems just never subsided. Has there been a console with more problems than the 360?

 

[Twilight Sparkle]

jharle[/url]":bgx64lun]Another reason to hate physical media for games. What century are we in again?

>his access is only by the unilaterally revocable leave of an entitled class instead of having his own personally transportable copy.

I don't know. Sounds like you have a thing for the 15th.

 

[No Wire Hangers]

Microsoft is like many large companies. They don't care much about you after they've taken your money and the the tech support company they've contracted cares even less.

What a company does right includes how they deal with things when things go wrong. I can't believe how short sighted companies can be. They risk a lot to save a few pennies.

 

[ruet]

jharle[/url]":13ps2b6c]Another reason to hate physical media for games. What century are we in again?

The century when my internet connection went down last night and I couldn't access any of my digital content.

True story...

 

[samkass]

andrewsc0[/url]":hmwxmrob]I witnessed my brothers Xbox scratch a few games years back, I was amazed at how little effort it took to destroy call of duty or whatever he was playing. If moving cars can play CDs without scratching them an Xbox should as well.

This. I'd had the PS3 for years and finally got an Xbox 360 because my kids friends all played on Live. I was amazed at how flimsy that device was, and we permanently, irrevocably scratched and destroyed the first disc we played trying to reach around to a USB port with the disk in and giving it a slight bump. I'd never had anything similar happen on the PS3 for years.

I'm not part of this lawsuit, but I'm not sympathetic to Microsoft on this. The problem isn't subtle or difficult to reproduce.

 

[MR2DI4]

Strangely enough I bought my old-style XBOX 360 Arcade around 2007 and after nearly ten years it has yet to scratch my discs or give me an RROD. Maybe I got the generation that fixed the early bugs but I have had ZERO complaints about mine and will continue using it for at least a couple more years...

MR2Di4

 

[YourOldBuddy]

MS is a relative newcomer to hardware design. Give them a few more years and they will get it right.

 

[Mark086]

YourOldBuddy[/url]":1kmn4xdg]MS is a relative newcomer to hardware design. Give them a few more years and they will get it right.

At your expense.

Microsoft doesn't do the designs, they contract it all.

 

[LostAlone]

No Wire Hangers[/url]":3fw8pjbn]Microsoft is like many large companies. They don't care much about you after they've taken your money and the the tech support company they've contracted cares even less.

What a company does right includes how they deal with things when things go wrong. I can't believe how short sighted companies can be. They risk a lot to save a few pennies.

Sorry but it's you who's being short sighted.

You are confusing seemingly large numbers of complaints about an issue with a high rate of failure. The fact that there was fifty thousand complains sounds like a big deal, but in perspective of millions of units sold it's simply not a big enough deal for them to make systematic changes to anything.

Devices like smartphones see over a 2% malfunction rate after 12 months. That's 2% of all units that passed QA and reached a customer. And that's just business as usual. Compare that to 0.4% of 360s reporting this issue. That's an acceptable failure rate.

And it's NOT pennies by the way; the solution has to be engineered, then manufactured, then introduced into the production line. All of these cost money. Another step in production means a loss of speed. Everything costs money. And maybe that's a few pennies per unit but only 0.4% of the units even needed that fix. And when you make 10 million units, those pennies have to be offset against the 99.6% of consoles that it was totally unnecessary on. If the cost to replace those defective units is cheaper than the cost of the fix; no fix.

That's simply economic reality. They are going to take the option that costs them least money. And you are horribly short sighted if you think inflating costs through legal means will do anything except inflate prices for the consumer then you don't know the real world.

Getting litigious about such low rates of failure won't fix anything. It won't somehow show those fat cats they have to fix anything. You can never make any product perfect. There will always be flaws and failures. Always. These are complex pieces of equipment with very many potential places for failure. Sometimes they fail.

People didn't die here. MS weren't negligent, they didn't keep selling a product knowing it'd burn your house down. Game discs got scratched. Discs that can be replaced. If people really believe that they lost a significant amount of money at absolutely no fault of their own and MS support won't help them, then well they can bring a suit. But class action for this? Asking for punitive damages? Are you serious? Punitive for what exactly? For deciding 0.4% was acceptably small? For endangering our precious game discs?

That's why the supreme court is 'wasting' their time with this. Because it's an abuse of the system. There's no clear basis to place these people into a class. Some cases are caused by the user moving their console, some by excess vibration and some where there was no contributing factor. But each of those situations requires it's own legal defense. But somehow an appeals court took leave of their senses and decided MS had to defend itself against this multi-pronged attack anyway. So the supreme court had to step in.

I can understand people hating on Microsoft but seriously, don't fanboy at the law. Making legal decisions by which company is being sued really doesn't lead to making good laws. The law has to apply the same to everyone and this case isn't the place to decide that since Microsoft are poopy heads they deserve to get sued for offering a product with typical rates of failure.

 

[No Wire Hangers]

LostAlone[/url]":26itjf5w]

No Wire Hangers[/url]":26itjf5w]Microsoft is like many large companies. They don't care much about you after they've taken your money and the the tech support company they've contracted cares even less.

What a company does right includes how they deal with things when things go wrong. I can't believe how short sighted companies can be. They risk a lot to save a few pennies.

Sorry but it's you who's being short sighted.

You are confusing seemingly large numbers of complaints about an issue with a high rate of failure. The fact that there was fifty thousand complains sounds like a big deal, but in perspective of millions of units sold it's simply not a big enough deal for them to make systematic changes to anything.


That's why the supreme court is 'wasting' their time with this. Because it's an abuse of the system. There's no clear basis to place these people into a class. Some cases are caused by the user moving their console, some by excess vibration and some where there was no contributing factor. But each of those situations requires it's own legal defense. But somehow an appeals court took leave of their senses and decided MS had to defend itself against this multi-pronged attack anyway. So the supreme court had to step in.

I can understand people hating on Microsoft but seriously, don't fanboy at the law. Making legal decisions by which company is being sued really doesn't lead to making good laws. The law has to apply the same to everyone and this case isn't the place to decide that since Microsoft are poopy heads they deserve to get sued for offering a product with typical rates of failure.

The issue isn't in the rate of failure. It is sticking it to the customer that gets the run around instead if a refund or a replacement. I have experienced it personally more than once. So to a large corporation like Microsoft replacing or refunding the purchase price is the right thing to do. Why should Microsoft get to keep the money when they sell a faulty product? They had the option of taking care of it on an individual basis and chose not to.

 

[globalastro]

Only affected 0.4%? And yet while working at blockbuster, it affected 80% of our Xbox 360 rental catalog at my store....

With the Xbox being bundled with wired controllers, a child only had to tug on the controller a little too hard or someone trip over a cord and you could kiss the game goodbye.

 

[Wobblylegs]

This was/is a real thing. I had several game disks damaged by this and when I contacted MS they said they would only replace game disks that were from a MS Studios game and not third party publisher. And unlike some of the others have said it wasn't due to moving the console while in operation, they were actual rotary scratches caused by mechanical contact not negligence. I might have joined this if happened in 2009.

 

[Skelator123]

Mark086[/url]":372bsrxh]Microsoft should have been taken to task for RROD and related technical problems which resulted in a substantial defect rate. However, don't move console while disc is spinning? That's just common sense.

Even early CD players didn't scratch the discs when moved, dropped, or shaken. The only physical hazard was that you could damage the spindle or the read head, not the disc.
The only type of drives prone to scratching all had to do with loading or ejecting, not movement while playing.
Until the 360, that is. No other console had the issue, including the original xbox.
It was an obvious design defect, and Microsoft KNEW it was a problem before they even shipped units. And then tried to deny it. So stop apologizing for them.

 

[Takur]

Windlasher[/url]":33vy9odi]

lonewolfe2015[/url]":33vy9odi]

The lawsuit alleges that vibrations or small movements of the console might cause the optical drive to scratch discs.

I can't help but wonder how many of those "small movements" were caused by moving the xbox while the disc was spinning or resting it on an unlevel surface.

You must not own an xbox 360. MY xbox was NEVER EVER moved and discs got scratched. Even after I replaced a drive while reparing RROD with a new drive and Never moved the unit with a disc in it, dies got scratched. Im thinking there might have been a problem unless my entire house is vibrating. Bought a new HALO disc after the first one got scratched. It was soon scratched as well.

I love the Xbox one - downloadable. All it cost me was an external HD and if they crashes, I can DL my games again. Microsoft made it a pain in the ass to claim for a scratched disc.

Not being snarky just saying that its probably that there was some kind of issue here.

I think this issue can easily be solved using forensic science.

If the discs submitted as evidence have uniform pattern of scratches then it could be that xbox360s are causing the damage.

However, if the scratches are random from discs to discs then it could have been caused by mishandling or by moving the console while it is playing.

Windlasher[/url]":33vy9odi]

andrewsc0[/url]":33vy9odi]I witnessed my brothers Xbox scratch a few games years back, I was amazed at how little effort it took to destroy call of duty or whatever he was playing. If moving cars can play CDs without scratching them an Xbox should as well.

DAMNED GOOD POINT - Cars, Busses, Walkmans - Yet the 360 scratches -

Microsoft's liability on this account should depend on whether it implied in some document that the console can be moved while a disc is being run inside it.

A CD player inside a vehicle should understandably have protection from this kind of scratches because of its use case. That ability is not implied for consoles.

 

[Abhi Beckert]

lonewolfe2015[/url]":374qn573]

The lawsuit alleges that vibrations or small movements of the console might cause the optical drive to scratch discs.

I can't help but wonder how many of those "small movements" were caused by moving the xbox while the disc was spinning or resting it on an unlevel surface.

I don't think repositioning a console classes as a "small" movement.

More likely they're talking about pressing the eject/power off buttons with enough force to physically shift the console slightly, or plugging in/removing a controller... or perhaps trying to troubleshoot a cabling issue when the picture doesn't come up on the TV.

There are plenty of times when a less technical user (especially kids!) might move a console while the disc is spinning and the 360 made that worse by encouraging users to mount the console vertically.

Other consoles don't scratch discs, the Xbone doesn't scratch discs. The original Xbox didn't scratch discs. The engineering team knew this was an issue, but somebody in the company told them not to fix it.

I'm happy for this to go to court, games are expensive and people deserve financial compensation.

 

[flunk]

There are about 15 different DVD drives different versions of the Xbox 360 shipped with. So it's possible in only affects one or some of them. I know my Xbox 360 games all look perfectly fine so either my Xbox 360 isn't affected or it is caused by mishandling the console somehow that I'm not doing.

 

[imagremlin]

I lost my limited edition Oblivion disk to this. The movement was minimal, just a small bump.

Thanks to EB's scratch disk guarantee, I was able to exchange it albeit for a standard edition one (difference refunded). To this day I do lament I don't have the limited ed.

 

[Brainling]

So if that 0.4% is a real number, and MS can prove it, then that's more than within acceptable rate of failure numbers for every piece of electronic hardware on the planet. 0.4% is such a small number it's almost funny. For that matter, the suit itself admits it happened mostly when moving the console during operation. Seriously? Who moves their console, with a tiny piece of spinning metal in it, while it's operating?

I understand people on Ars just like to piss on Microsoft (with good reason at times), but the amount of fervor people are arguing this silly case with is disturbing. If we start allowing people to bring class action suits for 0.4% failure rates, hold on to your butts. The courts are going to be tied up with ridiculous class action law suits for every piece of consumer electronics in existence, because they all have higher than 0.4% total failure rates.

It's terrible jurisprudence for the entire electronics industry, and I hope the supreme court swiftly rules this is an abuse of the class law system. If they don't, expect every piece of electronics you buy to spike in price as companies build in increased litigation costs to the price. You didn't think they would pay it themselves out of the kindness of their heart did you? Never forget the law of unintended consequences when you jump on these legal bandwagons to "stick it to the man".

 

[Dayvid]

lyme[/url]":2pn6ncmn]

CQLanik[/url]":2pn6ncmn]

Zra[/url]":2pn6ncmn]Should the consumers win the case and compensations awarded, I hope it's not the lawyers who get the lion's share of the payment this time.

Class action cases are pretty much always taken on contingency. They generally get a third of the gross plus fees.

Except the last class action suit mentioned on here, where the lawyers were getting it all.. and everyone else nothing.

That's how cases like this will always end, class action or not - the actual damages per customer vs the cost of legal action is stacked way too high for anything else to happen. MS losing still gives them an incentive to not pull something similar again though - who they end up having to pay doesn't matter as much there.

So not perfect (or even good), but better than nothing.

 

[Camp Freddie]

While 0.4% is small, it IS a design defect and MS should provide cover for it.

Most technology has similar or higher failure rates, but the manufacturer will fix them under warranty. The problem here is that MS are denying all responsibility.

Considering that MS have games like Kinnect Sports that actively encourage people to leap around their living rooms, they should make sure their consoles have enough damping to cope with the resulting vibrations.

 

[LostAlone]

No Wire Hangers[/url]":2s9cvb2w]

LostAlone[/url]":2s9cvb2w]

No Wire Hangers[/url]":2s9cvb2w]Microsoft is like many large companies. They don't care much about you after they've taken your money and the the tech support company they've contracted cares even less.

What a company does right includes how they deal with things when things go wrong. I can't believe how short sighted companies can be. They risk a lot to save a few pennies.

Sorry but it's you who's being short sighted.

You are confusing seemingly large numbers of complaints about an issue with a high rate of failure. The fact that there was fifty thousand complains sounds like a big deal, but in perspective of millions of units sold it's simply not a big enough deal for them to make systematic changes to anything.


That's why the supreme court is 'wasting' their time with this. Because it's an abuse of the system. There's no clear basis to place these people into a class. Some cases are caused by the user moving their console, some by excess vibration and some where there was no contributing factor. But each of those situations requires it's own legal defense. But somehow an appeals court took leave of their senses and decided MS had to defend itself against this multi-pronged attack anyway. So the supreme court had to step in.

I can understand people hating on Microsoft but seriously, don't fanboy at the law. Making legal decisions by which company is being sued really doesn't lead to making good laws. The law has to apply the same to everyone and this case isn't the place to decide that since Microsoft are poopy heads they deserve to get sued for offering a product with typical rates of failure.

The issue isn't in the rate of failure. It is sticking it to the customer that gets the run around instead if a refund or a replacement. I have experienced it personally more than once. So to a large corporation like Microsoft replacing or refunding the purchase price is the right thing to do. Why should Microsoft get to keep the money when they sell a faulty product? They had the option of taking care of it on an individual basis and chose not to.

I'm sure they were happy to replace drives or whole 360s that were habitually causing damage without additional user intervention while the 360 was under warranty. But when it wasn't under warranty why is it still their problem? No other tech company would. And where damage is being caused by user intervention, why is that MS problem too? If you want only the people who's intermittent problem was not caused by them in the slightest to be put into the class that's absolutely fine. I'm not saying MS has flawless customer service and perhaps they should get sued for that. But how many of those people actually were refused by MS? How many were 'given the run around' compared to how many were asked to prove they had a real problem and didn't bother getting back to them?

How would you suggest MS should run their service? Just hand out free 360's to everyone who shows up saying their one scratched a disk?

 

[passivesmoking]

To all the people moaning about the supreme court wasting time on a video game console: They aren't ruling on the lawsuit. They're ruling on a matter of jurisdiction, namely whether the lower court that allowed the class action had the power to actually do so. That's a matter of some importance as it will affect other people's ability to bring class actions in the future. They're not using the highest court in the US to decide on some scratched game discs.

 

[Resolute]

toppleb[/url]":1ezxglye]This is why you buy Japanese consoles, they have more experience with building earthquake resistant stuff.

But seriously, this court case seems awfully late. What took them so long?

Cases don't get filed on a Monday then heard at the Supreme Court on a Friday. This lawsuit is, believe it or not, already at least seven years old - and probably much older still. It's been tied up in the lower courts as the various levels bicker over whether or not this lawsuit can be launched as a class-action. And that, incidentally, is why the SCOTUS is now involved: it has become a question of whether the 9th circuit even had jurisdiction to make the ruling it did.

 

[daarong]

Zra[/url]":3n9ee2hh]Should the consumers win the case and compensations awarded, I hope it's not the lawyers who get the lion's share of the payment this time.

Has there EVER been a class action suit where the victims were compensated appropriately? I've never seen one myself.

Even in cases like the Apple-Google wage-fixing, where the payout may seem large to some, it was nothing in comparison to the actual damage inflicted (those victims should have been compensated much more).

 

[jlap53]

Can I get more information about this or is it too late to join? I've lost my Madden 25 and several 2k14 and 2k15 because of this and may still have a burned disc around here somewhere. I never knew this was the problem since I'm not deep into the gaming world but I do know is download my last game because of fear of burning the disc.

 

[david newall]

Mark086[/url]":64tgis7f]Microsoft should have been taken to task for RROD and related technical problems which resulted in a substantial defect rate. However, don't move console while disc is spinning? That's just common sense.

It doesn't seem obvious to me. I'm in the "you can play a cd in a car" camp.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Infinity4011[/url]":3pky2dc8]

Incarnate[/url]":3pky2dc8]Finally! All of western civilization depends on the outcome of this trial!

Seriously?. There aren't more important issues than scratched 360 disks for the Supreme Court? What a colossal waste of time and taxpayer dollars.

I think the larger issue at stake here is Microsoft claiming that .4% of owners is a small enough number that they can sue individually. It's basically Microsoft trying to avoid a class-action suit, because they know that lawsuits are prohibitively expensive for the individual, but a class can effectively seek redress in the courts.

Also, the amount of time it would take for the courts to go through the "small number" of cases.

How many 360's were sold, in the US?

25.4 million, according to Wikipedia.

If we are to assume that 101,000 360 users had complaints, and they all had to file individual lawsuits, the time it would take to move all of these suits through the courts would be staggering. The costs would be as well, to everyone. Microsoft would have to spend a considerable amount on counsel, as would each individual who chose to sue, and the taxpayer as well.

Letting it go to class action saves the individual the cost of paying a lawyer, saves the courts time and money, and allows the possibility of some form of punitive measure against Microsoft for their alleged defects. Microsoft is hoping that the denial of class status will suppress all of the individual suits, because no one in their right mind is going to spend thousands to recover the $60 or so per disc that got scratched. Even if it was every disc in their library and the 360 they had to replace, by the time it worked its way through the courts, they would be out far more in lawyer's fees.

If it's one disc at $60, I can see that taking place in small claims court. Which generally doesn't allow lawyers, and in most cases can give damages up to $5k. YMMV based on local laws.

 

[zombiedog]

Rolf Hansen[/url]":3avt8flj]

lonewolfe2015[/url]":3avt8flj]

The lawsuit alleges that vibrations or small movements of the console might cause the optical drive to scratch discs.

I can't help but wonder how many of those "small movements" were caused by moving the xbox while the disc was spinning or resting it on an unlevel surface.

Umm.... probably not that many. Most people do not move their consoles while they are in use, and very few people put them on unlevel surfaces as that would increase the risk of the console falling and getting damaged.

You would be surprised. Ask anyone who has worked at a Gamestop for any length of time and they will tell you it used to be a damn near weekly occurance where someone would come in with a game that was "ringed" because they either moved the system, they had it setup vertically and it fell over while running (remember, they used to sell stands/advertised it as a vertical setup for a long while), had a pet knock it over, tugged a cable on it too hard, etc. It was an incredibly common problem for 360 disks. Hell, I remember a few occasions where someone picked up a new title, brought it home, and then returned later that day saying it "didn't work" only to check the disk and find a nice deep ring gouged into it. When it wasn't someone trying to scam you into switching a ringed disk out, it was always fun trying to explain that nudging their system just screwed them out of $60.

Probably could have avoided the whole thing if they just had a damn spindle mount.

 

[azaraith]

I had this happen. I bought a copy of Forza 4 and had it running in the 360 (horizontally) and walked across the room to grab a drink and must have stepped too heavily, as it scratched the disk and no longer works. I contacted Microsoft and they pretty much told me to pound sand, I can either pay nearly the full cost of the game for a replacement disk or do nothing. I chose not to give them any more money...

 

[Joshmx]

Maybe mine was different. But I lost 2 discs from scratching. I know what happened. The disc was being read and I switched apps and ejected the disc. The disc didn't stop spinning before it was dropped on the tray. It was still spinning when the tray opened and the whole thing was scratched.

Of course, I only purchase a license to the data, not the disc itself, so I took it back and requested a new disc to continue using my license. It took the retail people a moment to get that I was allowed to exchange a video game for the same exact video game. But it was resolved then and there.

So two things:
1. My issues were not the optical reader but the disc being dropped to the tray while still spinning.
2. Since you don't own the software, this is more of a dishonest contract thing. Get you to pay to license the use of a product then make it so it isn't usable. Similar to renting a car then knifing the tires. The damages are more than the cost of renting the car.

 

[Joshmx]

zombiedog[/url]":3nnciq9r]

Rolf Hansen[/url]":3nnciq9r]

lonewolfe2015[/url]":3nnciq9r]

The lawsuit alleges that vibrations or small movements of the console might cause the optical drive to scratch discs.

I can't help but wonder how many of those "small movements" were caused by moving the xbox while the disc was spinning or resting it on an unlevel surface.

Umm.... probably not that many. Most people do not move their consoles while they are in use, and very few people put them on unlevel surfaces as that would increase the risk of the console falling and getting damaged.

You would be surprised. Ask anyone who has worked at a Gamestop for any length of time and they will tell you it used to be a damn near weekly occurance where someone would come in with a game that was "ringed" because they either moved the system, they had it setup vertically and it fell over while running (remember, they used to sell stands/advertised it as a vertical setup for a long while), had a pet knock it over, tugged a cable on it too hard, etc. It was an incredibly common problem for 360 disks. Hell, I remember a few occasions where someone picked up a new title, brought it home, and then returned later that day saying it "didn't work" only to check the disk and find a nice deep ring gouged into it. When it wasn't someone trying to scam you into switching a ringed disk out, it was always fun trying to explain that nudging their system just screwed them out of $60.

Probably could have avoided the whole thing if they just had a damn spindle mount.

And this is the problem. I don't buy game discs, I buy games. It says so in the license agreement. If the disc fails, I don't really care as it is not part of the license for me to protect the disc while it is inside the machine. Nowhere does it say my license will be revoked if the disc is damaged while inside the machine.

This is much more clear now with downloads. If I toss my xbox into a canyon, it does not mean I need to buy new games.

Retail and ms should have just exchanged the games. Legitimate retailers did per their own policy.

 

[GenocideOwl]

tipoo[/url]":huwczi5y]I remember the original Xbox didn't have rubber stoppers that prevent disks from stopping on the lens. The PS3 did, so imagine peoples continual surprise that the 360 Slim, Slim E, and now even Xbox One don't have those fractions of a penny worth stoppers that prevent bumps from scratching disks.

Really wonder why. Most other consoles seem to have them, and after all the trouble Microsoft had and all the new revisions they had to change it, they still don't have those rubber dots.

I mean, yeah, don't move a console while it's reading a disk or on at all, but that's also a trivially cheap fix.

MS cut a lot of corners on the X360 to make it as cheap as possible out of the gate, if they could save $0.05 per box on rubber stoppers...they did.
Same thing with RROD, if they could use terrible one piece Xclamps(instead of instead of proper nut/bolt) which cause the board to flex and the heat-sink to "pop off" the GPU/CPU when it got over heated to save pennies then they fucking did it.

 

[GenocideOwl]

globalastro[/url]":8hap772a]Only affected 0.4%? And yet while working at blockbuster, it affected 80% of our Xbox 360 rental catalog at my store....

With the Xbox being bundled with wired controllers, a child only had to tug on the controller a little too hard or someone trip over a cord and you could kiss the game goodbye.

Unless you were an idiot and bought the "core" xbox 360 system everybody I know had wireless controllers