Steve Wozniak on track to become Australian citizen

Apple co-founder eyeing Down Under as potential retirement spot.

Read the whole story

 

[Voo42]

심돌산[/url]":4han1kyp]
None of that counts for anything if the prostitutes themselves are forced into prostitution against their will, whether by pimps, boyfriends, etc. or by the need to provide food and shelter for themselves or their children.

If you can guarantee that all of your legal prostitutes are free and independent women who choose prostitution despite having no financial need to do, being free of any sort of coercion or influence from others seeking to profit from it, then your argument will be more compelling.

That argument has tons of holes - from the simple fact that just because something can be used illegally doesn't mean you want to banish it completely (that'd be rather limiting considering you can abuse almost everything - are you also for the abolishment of the internet?), to the fact that it's well established that life for prostitutes is way more dangerous in places where prostitution is illegal: They can't do their job in a safe and regulated environments, they can't go to the police,..

I mean I'm sure you don't seriously think that just because prostitution is illegal that there's none.

 

[Sobad]

Voo42[/url]":stwhk8fc]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":stwhk8fc]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

Intentional homicide rate per 100k:
Australia: 1.1
United States: 4.7

Yes, indeed

Intentional homicide rate per 100k for white victims in the United States is 1.29.

Most of the issues in the US are inner city violence. If you trim the inner cities out the US is on par with most of Europe.

 

[Voo42]

Sobad[/url]":2gdmpr4d]

Voo42[/url]":2gdmpr4d]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":2gdmpr4d]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

Intentional homicide rate per 100k:
Australia: 1.1
United States: 4.7

Yes, indeed

Intentional homicide rate per 100k for white victims in the United States is 1.29.

Most of the issues in the US are inner city violence. If you trim the inner cities out the US is on par with most of Europe.

Those are some interesting statistics, you have a link? (the first thing I find on google states a 2.37 murder rate for example). That inner city violence accounts for most of the violence isn't surprising, although the same is true for Europe - did they include it there too?

 

[powermatt]

심돌산[/url]":nrc1pndf]

powermatt[/url]":nrc1pndf]

심돌산[/url]":nrc1pndf]

powermatt[/url]":nrc1pndf]

Marc Aurel[/url]":nrc1pndf]

powermatt[/url]":nrc1pndf]
More conservative than the US? That's a good one. Here's a hint: they actually have sensible gun control in Australia.

It's a joke only if you think that a single issue defines whether you are conservative or "liberal" (in US sense). I know plenty of people in Europe, many of them not terribly conservative, who would like to move to the US to escape some of the more bureaucratic and limiting factors of European gun control. Its actual strictness varies from country to country, but is usually much more limiting than in most US states, especially if you like handguns or semiautomatic rifles. (In the UK and Netherlands for example it is pretty much impossible for a private citizen to own a handgun.)

No, I don't want to hijack this thread for gun control discussion. Merely stating facts.

Someone should really take a look at that stick up your butt. It's called an example; in other words there are many, many others I could use. For instance, the comment by Gannicus just above this one.

Way more liberal, mate! You yanks only have brothels in Nevada. We've got legal prostitution in not just one, but three states1!

I suppose prostitution is supposed to count as "social progress"?

I got news for you, prostitution isn't going anywhere. It's been around since the beginnings of civilization, and it will be here likely until the end of it (and after). So regulate it. Provide regular physical screenings for prostitutes, and safe locations for them to conduct "business." The net result is everyone is better off; that's the very definition of social progress.

None of that counts for anything if the prostitutes themselves are forced into prostitution against their will, whether by pimps, boyfriends, etc. or by the need to provide food and shelter for themselves or their children.

If you can guarantee that all of your legal prostitutes are free and independent women who choose prostitution despite having no financial need to do, being free of any sort of coercion or influence from others seeking to profit from it, then your argument will be more compelling.

I can't guarantee it, but I can say it's a whole lot easier when there's a legal channel for it.

 

[kray28]

Australia is the new Canada...the plane ticket just costs way more.

 

[Jiraiya]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":23l6l336]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

Coming from a country where *everyone* is trying to kill them? No brainer.

 

[kray28]

Sobad[/url]":39734o1i]

Voo42[/url]":39734o1i]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":39734o1i]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

Intentional homicide rate per 100k:
Australia: 1.1
United States: 4.7

Yes, indeed

Intentional homicide rate per 100k for white victims in the United States is 1.29.

Most of the issues in the US are inner city violence. If you trim the inner cities out the US is on par with most of Europe.

For white victims? Are you fucking serious?

 

[svim]

Well from an overall perspective taking into consideration the scale of extremist righties to extremist lefties the two are definitively to the left of center. Just like Libertarian beliefs don't necessarily mesh with Tea Party dogma, those two are clearly right of center.
In any case I don't think any of us commenting here on Ars are aware of Woz's political stance being linked to wanting an Australian citizenship.

 

[powermatt]

Sobad[/url]":3sit02kh]

Voo42[/url]":3sit02kh]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":3sit02kh]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

Intentional homicide rate per 100k:
Australia: 1.1
United States: 4.7

Yes, indeed

Intentional homicide rate per 100k for white victims in the United States is 1.29.

Most of the issues in the US are inner city violence. If you trim the inner cities out the US is on par with most of Europe.

While you're trimming those stats to make our numbers look better, let's just trim gun violence out too. Then we're way better than Australia! /sarcasm

Lies, damn lies, and statistics, as someone once said.

 

[Jiraiya]

dankellett[/url]":3rxiy9cm]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":3rxiy9cm]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

I always find this characterization rather amusing since Australia might have dangerous insects, reptiles and fish, it does not have any dangerous land dwelling predators like bears or large cats, which are far more dramatic than a cute blue ringed octopus.

Pray that you don't find yourself on the wrong end of a cassowary or a wombat.

 

[Sobad]

Voo42[/url]":aahp91e6]

Sobad[/url]":aahp91e6]

Voo42[/url]":aahp91e6]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":aahp91e6]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

Intentional homicide rate per 100k:
Australia: 1.1
United States: 4.7

Yes, indeed

Intentional homicide rate per 100k for white victims in the United States is 1.29.

Most of the issues in the US are inner city violence. If you trim the inner cities out the US is on par with most of Europe.

Those are some interesting statistics, you have a link? (the first thing I find on google states a 2.37 murder rate for example). That inner city violence accounts for most of the violence isn't surprising, although the same is true for Europe - did they include it there too?

As with everything that is on the internet, it is take with a grain of sand.

http://www.nationalreview.com/agend...ty-and-white-white-murder-rate-reihan-salam#!

2.37 per 100k upon reading, thanks Hinton.

Although the numbers do line up pretty good with the FBI stats.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...es-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide

 

[Hinton]

kray28[/url]":1x5ck6qj]

Sobad[/url]":1x5ck6qj]

Voo42[/url]":1x5ck6qj]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":1x5ck6qj]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

Intentional homicide rate per 100k:
Australia: 1.1
United States: 4.7

Yes, indeed

Intentional homicide rate per 100k for white victims in the United States is 1.29.

Most of the issues in the US are inner city violence. If you trim the inner cities out the US is on par with most of Europe.

For white victims? Are you fucking serious?

http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/38 ... ihan-salam

The white murder rate is actually 2.37 in USA.

 

[Sobad]

kray28[/url]":23u084gf]

Sobad[/url]":23u084gf]

Voo42[/url]":23u084gf]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":23u084gf]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

Intentional homicide rate per 100k:
Australia: 1.1
United States: 4.7

Yes, indeed

Intentional homicide rate per 100k for white victims in the United States is 1.29.

Most of the issues in the US are inner city violence. If you trim the inner cities out the US is on par with most of Europe.

For white victims? Are you fucking serious?

Very much so actually, people like to compare the US to countries that don't have the demographic mix that is present in the US.. Most of Europe is comparable to places like Maine... So yes.

 

[Anticrawl]

FoneSkulker[/url]":3t6zh1d9]Woz is so sensitive and he got tired of the ugliness of America and particularly the Bay area of late.

He also probably dislikes America for attributing the entirety of Apple's success to the salesman Steve Jobs, rather than his technical brilliance. Since Steve Wozniak did literally /everything/ at Apple and all Jobs did was shout and wave his arms around.

 

[심돌산]

Voo42[/url]":9jpmrck0]

심돌산[/url]":9jpmrck0]
None of that counts for anything if the prostitutes themselves are forced into prostitution against their will, whether by pimps, boyfriends, etc. or by the need to provide food and shelter for themselves or their children.

If you can guarantee that all of your legal prostitutes are free and independent women who choose prostitution despite having no financial need to do, being free of any sort of coercion or influence from others seeking to profit from it, then your argument will be more compelling.

That argument has tons of holes - from the simple fact that just because something can be used illegally doesn't mean you want to banish it completely (that'd be rather limiting considering you can abuse almost everything - are you also for the abolishment of the internet?), to the fact that it's well established that life for prostitutes is way more dangerous in places where prostitution is illegal: They can't do their job in a safe and regulated environments, they can't go to the police,..

I mean I'm sure you don't seriously think that just because prostitution is illegal that there's none.

Not at all. But I think that a better way to remedy the ills of illegal prostitution is to provide a social safety net sufficient to make prostitution unnecessary. Making prostitution unnecessary wouldn't make it go away, but would make it a truly voluntary transaction entered into by persons who are free of any coercion.

As things currently stand, legal prostitution doesn't do anything to solve the problems of women who are desperate and see no other alternative than prostitution. It may surprise you to hear this, but most prostitutes don't actually want to have sex with strange men. They get into prostitution because they feel they have no alternative.

 

[심돌산]

Anticrawl[/url]":2an1ukuc]

FoneSkulker[/url]":2an1ukuc]Woz is so sensitive and he got tired of the ugliness of America and particularly the Bay area of late.

He also probably dislikes America for attributing the entirety of Apple's success to the salesman Steve Jobs, rather than his technical brilliance. Since Steve Wozniak did literally /everything/ at Apple and all Jobs did was shout and wave his arms around.

I doubt he feels that way, since that is completely false. The engineering of the Apple I and Apple II computers was almost entirely a solo effort on Woz's part. Beyond that, Woz didn't do much. He was not heavily involved in the engineering of any significant product (well, apart from the Disk II floppy disk drive, which was pretty much his magnum opus).

Steve Jobs was the guy who convinced Woz to quit HP and start a new company. That has to count for something. Furthermore, Jobs was the guy who convinced retailers to sell the Apple I and Apple II computers. He is also the guy who insisted upon selling the personal computer as an all-in-one, plug and play system at a time when computers were generally sold as kits or bare circuit boards.

Of course, Woz had nothing whatsoever to do with Lisa, or with the Mac, without which Apple would be a mere footnote in history.

 

[Voo42]

심돌산[/url]":3csimpcb]

Voo42[/url]":3csimpcb]

심돌산[/url]":3csimpcb]
None of that counts for anything if the prostitutes themselves are forced into prostitution against their will, whether by pimps, boyfriends, etc. or by the need to provide food and shelter for themselves or their children.

If you can guarantee that all of your legal prostitutes are free and independent women who choose prostitution despite having no financial need to do, being free of any sort of coercion or influence from others seeking to profit from it, then your argument will be more compelling.

That argument has tons of holes - from the simple fact that just because something can be used illegally doesn't mean you want to banish it completely (that'd be rather limiting considering you can abuse almost everything - are you also for the abolishment of the internet?), to the fact that it's well established that life for prostitutes is way more dangerous in places where prostitution is illegal: They can't do their job in a safe and regulated environments, they can't go to the police,..

I mean I'm sure you don't seriously think that just because prostitution is illegal that there's none.

Not at all. But I think that a better way to remedy the ills of illegal prostitution is to provide a social safety net sufficient to make prostitution unnecessary. Making prostitution unnecessary wouldn't make it go away, but would make it a truly voluntary transaction entered into by persons who are free of any coercion.

As things currently stand, legal prostitution doesn't do anything to solve the problems of women who are desperate and see no other alternative than prostitution. It may surprise you to hear this, but most prostitutes don't actually want to have sex with strange men. They get into prostitution because they feel they have no alternative.

While a better safety net certainly is a great idea, I don't see any argument why you'd want to make prostitution illegal and how that'd help prostitutes apart from making their life way more dangerous.

Because you can certainly do both: Institute better safety nets and still make prostitution legal.

 

[kray28]

Sobad[/url]":2moryhzj]

kray28[/url]":2moryhzj]

Sobad[/url]":2moryhzj]

Voo42[/url]":2moryhzj]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":2moryhzj]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

Intentional homicide rate per 100k:
Australia: 1.1
United States: 4.7

Yes, indeed

Intentional homicide rate per 100k for white victims in the United States is 1.29.

Most of the issues in the US are inner city violence. If you trim the inner cities out the US is on par with most of Europe.

For white victims? Are you fucking serious?

Very much so actually, people like to compare the US to countries that don't have the demographic mix that is present in the US.. Most of Europe is comparable to places like Maine... So yes.

You seem very tone deaf. Why would you separate the murder rate by race? Non-white people don't count as people?

 

[Mitlov]

I'm confused why this has become a discussion of American society versus Australian society, given that the primarily reason for his move is to be with family family members who already lives in Australia. It's not like Woz was all like "fuck America, I quit this place."

 

[powermatt]

Sobad[/url]":rhy5ao52]

kray28[/url]":rhy5ao52]

Sobad[/url]":rhy5ao52]

Voo42[/url]":rhy5ao52]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":rhy5ao52]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

Intentional homicide rate per 100k:
Australia: 1.1
United States: 4.7

Yes, indeed

Intentional homicide rate per 100k for white victims in the United States is 1.29.

Most of the issues in the US are inner city violence. If you trim the inner cities out the US is on par with most of Europe.

For white victims? Are you fucking serious?

Very much so actually, people like to compare the US to countries that don't have the demographic mix that is present in the US.. Most of Europe is comparable to places like Maine... So yes.

A common fallacy that comes from people that have no idea what they're talking about. Australia is actually quite culturally diverse, thanks in part to their proximity to Asia. This is especially true in the major cities, much like (suprise!) major cities in the US.

 

[Jiraiya]

Sobad[/url]":3p900prk]

Voo42[/url]":3p900prk]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":3p900prk]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

Intentional homicide rate per 100k:
Australia: 1.1
United States: 4.7

Yes, indeed

Intentional homicide rate per 100k for white victims in the United States is 1.29.

Most of the issues in the US are inner city violence. If you trim the inner cities out the US is on par with most of Europe.

If we just leave out those damn darkies, we'd be living in paradise. I know! Let's pretend they don't exist! That way we won't have to address any of our problems.

JFC. Please, think before posting.

 

[powermatt]

Mitlov[/url]":241qnjx4]I'm confused why this has become a discussion of American society versus Australian society, given that the primarily reason for his move is to be with family family members who already lives in Australia. It's not like Woz was all like "fuck America, I quit this place."

Given your post count on Ars, I'm not sure why you're confused about it.

 

[abend s0c0]

It's not in the US's interest to take away his citizenship. That would let him off the hook on taxes. From Woz's perspective, it may not be worth the exit tax he'd have to pay or the relative burden of the two tax systems.

 

[Danathar]

What information is there ANYWHERE that he is planning or even THINKING of renouncing his U.S. Citizenship and becoming an Australian citizen?

There are LOTS of U.S. Ex-pats that live and work overseas with their families. The headline implies he is going to change his citizenship.

Wow Ars...stooping to clickbait now?

 

[cecilroytoo]

dankellett[/url]":3kt8p86q]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":3kt8p86q]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

I always find this characterization rather amusing since Australia might have dangerous insects, reptiles and fish, it does not have any dangerous land dwelling predators like bears or large cats, which are far more dramatic than a cute blue ringed octopus.

Australia also has a tiny crime rate compared to the USA, an excellent socialised medical system, a good welfare system, low incarceration rates, no capital punishment, no Republicans nor Democrats, doesn't depend on the industrial-military state and a permanent war footing for survival etc., etc.. All in all, far superior to the USA.

 

[Unsheept]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":2qr1tz8h]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

Probably the same reason he wants to live upside down.

 

[심돌산]

cecilroytoo[/url]":uok58xry]

dankellett[/url]":uok58xry]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":uok58xry]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

I always find this characterization rather amusing since Australia might have dangerous insects, reptiles and fish, it does not have any dangerous land dwelling predators like bears or large cats, which are far more dramatic than a cute blue ringed octopus.

Australia also has a tiny crime rate compared to the USA, an excellent socialised medical system, a good welfare system, low incarceration rates, no capital punishment, no Republicans nor Democrats, doesn't depend on the industrial-military state and a permanent war footing for survival etc., etc.. All in all, far superior to the USA.

Doesn't Tony Abbott at least count as an honorary Republican?

 

[styron]

Dilbert[/url]":11zmcq6j]Meh.

New Zealand on the other hand.

Don't you see? It's so he can get easy access into NZ!

Much easier than doing it the other way around.

 

[styron]

cecilroytoo[/url]":1n9v9xtk]

dankellett[/url]":1n9v9xtk]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":1n9v9xtk]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

I always find this characterization rather amusing since Australia might have dangerous insects, reptiles and fish, it does not have any dangerous land dwelling predators like bears or large cats, which are far more dramatic than a cute blue ringed octopus.

Australia also has a tiny crime rate compared to the USA, an excellent socialised medical system, a good welfare system, low incarceration rates, no capital punishment, no Republicans nor Democrats, doesn't depend on the industrial-military state and a permanent war footing for survival etc., etc.. All in all, far superior to the USA.

Don't worry, they're working on it!

 

[cecilroytoo]

심돌산[/url]":3llo3q9b]

cecilroytoo[/url]":3llo3q9b]

dankellett[/url]":3llo3q9b]

Paul Rodgers[/url]":3llo3q9b]Why on earth would someone want to move to a country where everything is trying to kill them?

I always find this characterization rather amusing since Australia might have dangerous insects, reptiles and fish, it does not have any dangerous land dwelling predators like bears or large cats, which are far more dramatic than a cute blue ringed octopus.

Australia also has a tiny crime rate compared to the USA, an excellent socialised medical system, a good welfare system, low incarceration rates, no capital punishment, no Republicans nor Democrats, doesn't depend on the industrial-military state and a permanent war footing for survival etc., etc.. All in all, far superior to the USA.

Doesn't Tony Abbot at least count as an honorary Republican?

Not really. Australian right-wing politicians gravitate to the various wings of the Democrats or are to their left. Abbott is certainly the most extreme right-winger we've had as Prime Minister. However, he's not quite a extreme as the Republicans.

 

[hieper]

"I want to be a distinguished part of this country and some day I may say I lived and died an Australian, and that would be a really nice thing to be able to say,"

Unless he has a another breakthrough invention up his sleeve, I guess it will be a taped performance...

 

[Z1ggy]

hieper[/url]":18wmkp6a]"I want to be a distinguished part of this country and some day I may say I lived and died an Australian, and that would be a really nice thing to be able to say,"

Unless he has a another breakthrough invention up his sleeve, I guess it will be a taped performance...

It could be a hologram.

 

[psd]

Mitlov[/url]":28y6i09u]It's not like Woz was all like "fuck America, I quit this place."

This is close enough to saying as much, some would say...

"I want to be a distinguished part of this country and some day I may say I lived and died an Australian, and that would be a really nice thing to be able to say,"

Its at least a back handed slap considering how America set him up to be who is now.

 

[Doomguy]

infected[/url]":3doeklo4]

MisdemeanorMatt[/url]":3doeklo4]Maybe I'm missing something here but why is this newsworthy? Can someone explain?

Yes you are missing something, the article is about Woz.

It should not come as a surprise that a tech related news site covers such things about people who are very popular in the tech world.

It's about Woz but really, covering non tech aspects of tech people can be left to E! and People. If Woz becomes vegan will Ars then start covering dietary habits and fad exercises?

 

[Carbon Fibre]

Recognized individuals and citizenship talk? Only when it comes to finance and taxation. Looks like this is more of a passionate move from him?

 

[Vipre77]

TheSeeker11[/url]":1ldkx1nr]I find this rather vexing. I, as an Australian citizen, have to wait 10-14 months for my British wife to obtain a residency visa, even though we've been married for almost 9 years. In the meantime, I cannot move home (without leaving my wife behind of course) until her visa is granted.

Just have her break a law worthy enough to having her sent to your penal colony there and you're all set! They still do that, right?

 

[Marakai]

TheSeeker11[/url]":30vnfexl]I find this rather vexing. I, as an Australian citizen, have to wait 10-14 months for my British wife to obtain a residency visa, even though we've been married for almost 9 years. In the meantime, I cannot move home (without leaving my wife behind of course) until her visa is granted.

Sadly, this likely isn't so much a matter of privilege but of an organisation that has been starved of proper resources for year - regardless of LNP or Labor governments.

The wait is simply the time it takes for your application to slowly wind its way from the bottom of the pile where it starts, to the top. The actual approval process then probably takes some drone 5 minutes.

Yes, there's ways to accelerate that process - my wife and I did it. Money was not involved. Instead, professional skills in demand and as a result receiving state sponsorship. What would have (back then) been a 2 year wait turned into 2 months - and that was mostly waiting for police and health checks.

Have you looked into those options? Does your wife have skills in demand that could help? Might be worth checking with an agent!

Good luck!

 

[Hinton]

심돌산[/url]":2r8hul52]
Not at all. But I think that a better way to remedy the ills of illegal prostitution is to provide a social safety net sufficient to make prostitution unnecessary. Making prostitution unnecessary wouldn't make it go away, but would make it a truly voluntary transaction entered into by persons who are free of any coercion.

I live in Denmark, where prostitution is legal. There's also a comprehensive social safety net.

However the street is still full of prostitutes from Africa and Eastern-Europe, and to a lesser extend, Danish drug addicts. The Africans and Eastern-Europeans are victims of human trafficking, and through debt, or lack of oppertunity, has no other was of making a living.

Making prostitution illegal would of course not solve anything, only drive them away from the mainstreet.

 

[ayejay_nz]

Dilbert[/url]":2zva240k]Meh.

New Zealand on the other hand.

Luckily for him, once he has an Aussie passport he can move to NZ whenever he wants without any paper work : ]

 

[NinjaNerd56]

Dilbert[/url]":2apd32pt]Meh.

New Zealand on the other hand.

In 1980, I was headed to Australia...and intended to stay.

I met my first wife about that time, and she said she'd go to. Almost 35 years and 2 divorces later, I'm still in the States.

However, I now have friends and family in New Zealand, and yes...that's the spot. About to retire from tech and move there.