It's purportedly the first of four planned teasers, one per week, showing before <em>Avatar: Fire and Ash</em>.
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Steve Rogers returns in Avengers: Doomsday teaser
- Thread starter JournalBot
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I didn’t like Endgame. I found it bloated, overlong, convoluted, and the finale to be excessive fanservice. My criticism was drowned out by the adulation from fans and casual moviegoers alike, and IMO Marvel learned the wrong lesson from this.
So now we have Avengers: Doomsday. To me there’s a straight line from Endgame’s excesses to this, and the compact, lean superhero narrative film has become the exception rather than the rule.
Which is fine, really. Most MCU films are bad, but superficially entertaining. Superheroes are absurd nonsense, and it’s okay to enjoy them purely as visual spectacle. It’s too far away and there are too many trailers to come for me to decide where I’ll see this, but I’ll almost definitely see this
So now we have Avengers: Doomsday. To me there’s a straight line from Endgame’s excesses to this, and the compact, lean superhero narrative film has become the exception rather than the rule.
Which is fine, really. Most MCU films are bad, but superficially entertaining. Superheroes are absurd nonsense, and it’s okay to enjoy them purely as visual spectacle. It’s too far away and there are too many trailers to come for me to decide where I’ll see this, but I’ll almost definitely see this
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No, I'm illustrating only that my 70yo mother knew who they were. I am not attempting to make any inferences, political statements, social points, broad demographic generalizations, or coming down on either side of whatever the argument is. I am merely making a simple anecdotal statement that my mom knew all the members (except Hawkeye).
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The relevant fact is that it got us talking about a movie a year from release.
edit: I keep waiting for people to comment on the elephant in the narrative room: Steve Rogers has a kid. Steve Rogers is happy. The only other thing Victor von Doom has done in the MCU thus far has been to abduct the infant of a superhero.
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I don't remember MCU Dr. Doom abducting anybody. He did not join Latveria into the world organization everybody else joined in on. In the mid credit scene he was just with Franklin with his mask off letting Franklin touch his face. We don't know much of anything about MCU Dr. Doom yet.
My speculation on the future plot based on past and current comic stories:
If they continue with using previous comic stories for the MCU plot and are heading towards the second Secret Wars in the MCU, we have (at least) two different likely cases. Most likely, Dr. Doom is his normal villain type, and since we do not have Molecule Man to help create a safe spot while the multiverse collapses, he uses Franklin and his power instead. Two, we instead have a variant of the current Ultimate Dr. Doom, but instead of a scarred Reed Richards, as we already have a Reed Richards, we have a scarred variant Tony Stark who has adopted the moniker of Dr. Doom in his fight against the real Big Bad causing the collapse of the multiverse.
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It is hard for me to express, how excited \I was about the MCU up to Endgame and how disinterested I am now.
Up to that point all the characters introduced were faithful to the originals, exciting, inspiring and fun.
After Endgame every new character and most of the old ones has been a joke. Sometimes this was intentional but inappropriate, others unintentional but a joke all the same.
The lack of creativity and talent in every MCU project since, has been frankly mind boggling.
I want to be excited for Doomsday but honestly, I just can’t.
Up to that point all the characters introduced were faithful to the originals, exciting, inspiring and fun.
After Endgame every new character and most of the old ones has been a joke. Sometimes this was intentional but inappropriate, others unintentional but a joke all the same.
The lack of creativity and talent in every MCU project since, has been frankly mind boggling.
I want to be excited for Doomsday but honestly, I just can’t.
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So many characters, so many overwrought story arcs, this just sounds exhausting, and why so many of us have pretty incurable superhero fatigue at this point.
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Beyond that, the MCU has re-cast characters. Don Cheadle wasn't the original James Rhodes. Harrison Ford wasn't the original Thunderbolt Ross. Mark Ruffalo wasn't the original Hulk!
Like others have intimated, it's probably not just Majors' criminal issues, but the whole lack of resonance of Kang. I'm a comic guy, but not really an Avengers or FF guy, and Kang only registers with me as "guy with weird time-shenanigans backstory who is (not so) secretly, like, five other d-tier characters as well."
On the other hand, Doctor Doom is Doctor Doom. His name is Doctor Doom. Even if you don't know any part of his deal—he's a genius scientist/wizard who (justifiably?) hates Reed Richards—his name is Doctor Doom. It's a top 5 attention-grabbing villain name of all time. Doctor Doom just sounds like a guy who is going to do some shit.
If recent changes in corporate structures and licensing allow you to replace Kang with Doctor Doom under any pretext, you should probably do it.
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Weird half-drunk Chrismas Eve Day meandering.
Kang has an Asian flavor. Dr. Doom is quintessentially European. I'm cool with not doing the racial thing.
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I don't know - Marcus Welby MD played well, as did Police Woman and Kojak. Columbo always drew an audience.
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Kang has asian flavor?
Hun?
… I mean he was a Egyptian pharaoh Rama-Tut for a while and pops up in crusades and old west
… but I’m not aware of him ever being asian or even having any significant asian adventures
Racial thing? You know he’s a descendant/relation of Reed Richards
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At least you got to laugh after clawing at your eyes....
Iron man was better known than I would have expected, at least from the feedback as the movie premiered.
The rest? You either read comics or you didn't. Based on the number of comicon events even back then, quite a few people did read comics.
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I would argue that James Bond doesn’t count, because any new incarnation of him is effectively a franchise reboot that resets the timeline, otherwise how else can one explain him not being an old man at this point?
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The textual cinematic James Bond timeline is actually Kang-levels of un-parseable if you try to think about it. Most people just... don't. And rightly so. Look at the actors who play the four regular MI-6 characters: Bond, M, Moneypenny, and Q. At least one actor (mostly Llewelyn's Q)—and usually two or three—always overlaps with others changing. And pre-Craig they generally act like the new actor is the same character.
The original M and Moneypenny both know three Bonds. The original Moneypenny also knows two Ms. The second M knows two Bonds and two Moneypennys. The same Q knows all of those people, plus one additional Bond, M, and Moneypenny. The third M knows two Qs, though if I recall Cleese textually replaced Llewelyn.
And that's just four people at MI-6. The first Bond meets four different Felix Leiters. The fifth Leiter appears both before and after the sixth, meeting two different Bonds. As a consequence of this, the fourth Bond also meets two different Leiters.
The Craig years were explicitly a reboot, so I'm going to ignore that M appears to still be the same person, and that she would therefore know two Bonds, two Moneypennys and three Qs. She is textually replaced, so Fiennes is not an issue
The trick the current Bond writers apparently miss is that most people actually don't think about this at all. I made a spreadsheet just to write this post. I am a weirdo!
Also: anyone who only knows Craig!Bond has also lived through, like, four Batmans.
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And one of them was secretly Steve McGarett.
We won't even talk about Bond pretending to be Inspector Clouseau.
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Was 3 years old in 1980.
I remember seeing the Hulk and Spiderman on TV, Captain America somewhere because he was “the guy with the motorcycle and shield” and first learned of Thor not from comics but from Norse mythology by way of D&D. To non-comic book people Marvel was way, way less popular than DC (batman tv show, superman movies, justice league cartoon, etc.) outside of those fee TV/movie heroes and probably Blade until Ironman came out.
Hell, I knew about Howard the Duck before Ironman because of the movie, and though I wouldn’t know it to be a Marvel character until decades later.
I think the only comic books I had growing up were Star Wars comic books.
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I agree with why Kang wasn't recast, but I do find it a little hard to disentangle how much of it was "audiences aren't interested in Kang" vs "audiences didn't like that Ant-Man 3 wasn't actually an Ant-Man movie".
The movies were originally allowed to largely do their own thing and have the connective tissue not be overbearing. Captain America 3 dialed the connectivity up and was basically an Avengers movie, and maybe it was just that the formula wasn't stale yet, but at the time it didn't feel like hijacking the movie into something completely different than what you'd expect like they did with Ant-Man 3. Now a lot of their output feels like it exists solely so you'll understand the next movie or show, and they learned all the wrong lessons from Ant-Man 3 underperforming.
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… so sad about what they’ve done to Howard
That was actually the first comic I can remember being a fan of as a kid (I was a weird kid)
They ruined him when disney insisted he were pants but before that back in the Steve Gerber original run he was the only gritty alternative comic character in mainstream comics that kinda dealt with real life .. even if they did so absurdly
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Disney has had six years to build up new characters to care about on their own merits, instead they keep shoveling out half baked "replacements" that in some cases stole their stuff from the characters we cared about.
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I am confused as to how this fits in with the branched timeline concept they made such a huge deal of in Endgame (where any change you make to the past doesn't alter the future; it simply creates a new alternate timeline instead). One which we then learnt would have been purged anyways in the Loki TV series, and which is now apparently allowed to happen now that Kang is no longer running the TVA?
It probably makes more sense that Steve Rogers opting to stay in the past with Peggy Carter resulted in a new reality which has zero impact on the main Avengers continuity. I doubt Steve would have allowed Hydra to remain in Shield, or not save Bucky, or allow a hundred other atrocities to have happened were he aware of them.
But it also means that whatever he did ultimately doesn't matter. It's at best an episode of "what if", but it does raise the question of why he decided to eventually return to his main timeline.
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I'm pretty sure the only one that actually stole someone's stuff was Scott Lang, and Hank came to be fine with it. John Walker, I could see--if you were even thinking about him with respect to Captain America, because Sam Wilson most decidedly stole nothing. Yelena is arguably a better-character than Natalia. I'm really coming up empty on any other thieves. Loki? Well, yeah, but he's not a pale imitation of anyone but his own expectations.
If anything, it is possible that the "flawed superhero" card has been overplayed and that's driving the fatigue. The current crop is far too burdened by insecurity, if anything, and people tired of "Ooooh, it's so haaaard to be powerful. Waaaaah."
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i prefer to think James Bond is just either a heavily reused backstopped cover identity for a series of highly disposable agents who originally identities have been wiped
- like a bunch of grey men
- they aren’t expected to live so little effort is given in creating a unique IDs
for each one,
instead they so deeply conditioned to resist interrogation as you work your way up the 00 ladder you are referred to internally exclusively by the ID of that level
maybe why Bond is so casual with the the use of his cover ID because he fully expects to die- or various Bonds have died many times more than recast
this is hardly consistent with the actual movies sure
but could also be seen as a narrative device - Bond we see being like the literary device when you amalgamate a bunch of people’s stories into one character and the movies are presenting the adventures of a whole slew of agents as one character for simplicity
or its just a fun pop culture movie
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TheLastOfHisName
Smack-Fu Master, in training
I'll be giving this one a pass.
I wanted Victor Von Doom, King of Latveria. They could have produced a decent enough mini series to cover his origin, stream it on Disney+ or whatever, and have the film as the main course.
For those who are going to see it, I hope you have a fun time.
I wanted Victor Von Doom, King of Latveria. They could have produced a decent enough mini series to cover his origin, stream it on Disney+ or whatever, and have the film as the main course.
For those who are going to see it, I hope you have a fun time.
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jonbob_newcastle
Ars Scholae Palatinae
I find it amusing that the idea of multiple James Bonds was a sub-plot of the '67 Casino Royale. It's almost as if the writers knew Cubby Broccoli would still be making Bond films decades later.
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I find it funny thinking of the dueling Welles and Sellers throwing insults back and forth in public and refusing to be on set at the same time
while trying to out compete each other in prima donna assholiness and drunken debauchery
(helps it came out the year I was born)
ohh. if only Oliver Reed and and Pete O’tool had come by to straighten them out
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Who could have guessed Waterboy would end up being the better movie!
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I don't go to many movies, so back in the day I made a choice between seeing The Matrix or The Phantom Menace in the theater.
I chose poorly.
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They've just moved the Hal Jordan story arc over to a different hero/villain.
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The Di'Allas created a twisted echo of Phil Coulson. It's not a leap to hypothesize that as Tony declared "I am Iron Man" and snapped Thanos and his army out of existence, some part of his control freak persona manifesting elsewhere was the multiverse's equal and opposite reaction.
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