Sony rising: PS3 opens up lead on Xbox 360 in July

This month Nintendo keeps the top two spots on the console sales charts without much work, but there's also good news for Sony. The July NPD sales numbers are here, let the crowing and hand-wringing begin. <BR><BR><BR>Read More

 

[SteelDog]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dmitriyk:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dmitriyk:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What I find odd is the software attach rate of all 3 consoles. That is a more interesting story. For the PS3 to have a poor attach rate, that makes sense. They struggled out of the gate and people purchased it for it's Blu Ray player. However, when is the last time you have seen a hit console (like the Wii) have such a poor attach rate? </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm pretty sure the attach rate for multiplatform HD titles is higher for the PS3 than the 360. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Was GTA a HD title? It was suppose to be a driver for PS3 sales and historically has been a Sony anchor. To date 360 has outsold the PS3 with GTA sales. I will have to look again. The last time I looked at the NPD sales numbers, I don't recall any multi-platform game outselling the 360 version. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I said attach <I>rate</I>, not quantity sold. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I doubt that would hold true with the number of multi-platform titles and the 360 having 45% of the market share. Attach rate is average titles owned per # of consoles but it would be interesting to know how individual titles hold up. If I take the number of units per console and then divide by the number of units sold for any title, I could figure that out. It would be interesting to see.<BR><BR>By the way what do you mean by HD titles? The 360 is HD in game output as well.

 

[severusx]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kobolds:<BR><BR>wrong . first things for MS to do is kill the xbox360 and bring out new console that don't give me ring of death . <BR><BR>the ring of death is the number 1 problem in xbox360 </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Again, as has already been said, the RROD problem exists primarily in "first gen" 360s. MS recognized this problem and extended the warranties of those consoles to compensate. This excuse doesn't hold water with me, if you want to be a fanboy for whatever console then so be it but try to know your facts.<BR><BR>Disclosure: I own all three (5 if you count ps2 and xbox original) consoles and find that the majority of good "hardcore" games come out on 360. I bought the PS3 primarily as a cheap blu-ray player.

 

[dmitriyk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR>I doubt that would hold true with the number of multi-platform titles and the 360 having 45% of the market share. Attach rate is average titles owned per # of consoles but it would be interesting to know how individual titles hold up. If I take the number of units per console and then divide by the number of units sold for any title, I could figure that out. It would be interesting to see.<BR><BR>By the way what do you mean by HD titles? The 360 is HD in game output as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>There seems to be some disconnect here; let me spell it out for you. For a given game available on the PS3 and the 360 (ignoring the non-HD Wii), the number of copies sold divided by the console's installed base is usually higher for the PS3. This is the <I>exact</I> opposite of your claimed "poor attach rate" on the PS3.

 

[fishyuk]

We've just bought a PS3 even though my preferred gaming platform is the Xbox for anything not exclusive (hell I like the achievement points, msn integration and most of all I've never liked the Sony controller, tried bad company then went and downloaded it for my xbox...)<BR><BR>The PS3 is a great blu-ray player though and that was the main reason. It is quiet enough for the bedroom too!<BR><BR>Given the gear we have in the house I still see the order of gaming in 2009 being:<BR><BR>1: Xbox - Anything non-exclusive to PS3 that isn't also on PC in a better version.<BR>2: PC - Originally my media centre only but since I got a 4870 and the Xbox controller adapter then PC gaming is back for me!<BR>3: PS3 - Some of next years exclusives may tempt me - Killzone and Resitance 2 perhaps.<BR>4: Wii - Gathering dust, girlfriend given her wii fit to her mum (gym is better) and since resident evil nothing has grabbed me. Should sell it really but useful for the off the tits drunken sessions......

 

[nando5]

Wii Play in the top 4? WTF?<BR><BR>I mean, it's kindof fun to dink around on (the tanks game is a serious challenge) but it's barely even a game. more of a demo.. I'd rather have Mario Galaxy (which my wife made me trade in, damnit!).

 

[SteelDog]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dmitriyk:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR>I doubt that would hold true with the number of multi-platform titles and the 360 having 49% of the market share. Attach rate is average titles owned per # of consoles but it would be interesting to know how individual titles hold up. If I take the number of units per console and then divide by the number of units sold for any title, I could figure that out. It would be interesting to see.<BR><BR>By the way what do you mean by HD titles? The 360 is HD in game output as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>There seems to be some disconnect here; let me spell it out for you. For a given game available on the PS3 and the 360 (ignoring the non-HD Wii), the number of copies sold divided by the console's installed base is usually higher for the PS3. This is the <I>exact</I> opposite of your claimed "poor attach rate" on the PS3. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Thanks for spelling it out but that doesn't make sense. I said it would be interesting because I didn't know. No need to get snappy. I was curious nothing more. So here it goes.<BR><BR>After crunching some numbers calculating how 1 title does per console isn't really an indicator of attach rate simply because the install base is so different. Attach rate only works when looking at the overall picture of all titles and not individual ones.<BR><BR>The only thing looking at one title is going to give you is what percentage of people bought that game on each console. Again, even then that doesn't tell you much considering the difference in the install base. A higher percentage of sales for a given title should be higher for a console with a smaller install base.<BR><BR>Here is what I was able to look up.<BR><BR>Install Base:<BR>Wii - 13.52 Million<BR>360 - 12.24 Million<BR>PS3 - 5.5 Million<BR><BR>According to NPD here are the attach rates:<BR><BR>360 - 7.9 per console (does not include XBOX Live game sales).<BR>Wii - 5.3 per console<BR>PS3 - 4.6 per console<BR><BR>I guess in the end what each title does in overall sales with factoring in the overall attach rate is a better indicator than looking at an individual title sell through rate on any given console.<BR><BR>So Nintendo and Sony (for July) can brag all they want about hardware sales. However, unless the software sales pickup and the overall attach rate increases, I think it's safe to say MS is doing just fine.<BR><BR>The X-factor is that MS sales on XBOX LIVE which for some reason the NPD doesn't count. MS in the last 12 months has made $180 million in the last 12 months from XBOX LIVE downloads.

 

[ShapeGSX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dmitriyk:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What I find odd is the software attach rate of all 3 consoles. That is a more interesting story. For the PS3 to have a poor attach rate, that makes sense. They struggled out of the gate and people purchased it for it's Blu Ray player. However, when is the last time you have seen a hit console (like the Wii) have such a poor attach rate? </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm pretty sure the attach rate for multiplatform HD titles is higher for the PS3 than the 360. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Why would you think that? Especially with the 360's overall attach rate exceeding that of the PS3. And the 360's software sales exceeding those of the PS3.

 

[ShapeGSX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nando5:<BR>Wii Play in the top 4? WTF?<BR><BR>I mean, it's kindof fun to dink around on (the tanks game is a serious challenge) but it's barely even a game. more of a demo.. I'd rather have Mario Galaxy (which my wife made me trade in, damnit!). </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Don't think of it as Wii Play. Think of it as a 2nd controller with a $10 game.

 

[Chikahiro]

I'm wondering exactly how many people are like me and aren't going to buy the 20g at $300 because I want to see when the 60g hits $300. I mean, honestly, waiting a little while to get a larger harddrive for the same price as the 20g only makes sense to me. Its those darn rumored price drops that I take very seriously!<br><br>I am happy all the systems are doing well, though -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif --

 

[Sanctusx2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR><BR>Thanks for spelling it out but I didn't see any data to back up your claim. I said it would be interesting because I didn't know. I wasn't trying to refute what you were saying. I am curious nothing more.<BR><BR>Also, after crunching some numbers calculating how 1 title does per console isn't really an indicator of attach rate simply because the install base is so different. Attach rate only works when looking at the overall picture of all titles and not individual ones.<BR><BR>The only thing looking at one title is going to give you is what percentage of people bought that game on each console. Again, even then that doesn't tell you much considering the difference in the install base. A higher percentage of sales for a given title should be higher for a console with a smaller install base.<BR><BR>Here is what I was able to look up.<BR><BR>Install Base:<BR>Wii - 13.52 Million<BR>360 - 12.24 Million<BR>PS3 - 5.5 Million<BR><BR>According to NPD here are the attach rates:<BR><BR>360 - 7.5 per console<BR>Wii - 5.3 per console<BR>PS3 - 4.6 per console<BR><BR>I guess in the end what each title does in overall sales with factoring in the overall attach rate is a better indicator than looking at an individual title sell through rate on any given console.<BR><BR>So Nintendo and Sony can brag all they want about hardware sales. However, unless the software sales pickup and the overall attach rate, MS doesn't have much to worry about unless their hardware sales drop off the face of the planet. Which doesn't seem to be happening. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>You know those numbers sort of make me wonder. Does NPD data include XBLA titles for their sales charts and/or attach rates?<BR><BR>It'd be interesting to know.

 

[lyme]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sanctusx2:<BR><BR>You know those numbers sort of make me wonder. Does NPD data include XBLA titles for their sales charts and/or attach rates?<BR><BR>It'd be interesting to know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Nope, they don't.

 

[SteelDog]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sanctusx2:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR><BR>Thanks for spelling it out but I didn't see any data to back up your claim. I said it would be interesting because I didn't know. I wasn't trying to refute what you were saying. I am curious nothing more.<BR><BR>Also, after crunching some numbers calculating how 1 title does per console isn't really an indicator of attach rate simply because the install base is so different. Attach rate only works when looking at the overall picture of all titles and not individual ones.<BR><BR>The only thing looking at one title is going to give you is what percentage of people bought that game on each console. Again, even then that doesn't tell you much considering the difference in the install base. A higher percentage of sales for a given title should be higher for a console with a smaller install base.<BR><BR>Here is what I was able to look up.<BR><BR>Install Base:<BR>Wii - 13.52 Million<BR>360 - 12.24 Million<BR>PS3 - 5.5 Million<BR><BR>According to NPD here are the attach rates:<BR><BR>360 - 7.5 per console<BR>Wii - 5.3 per console<BR>PS3 - 4.6 per console<BR><BR>I guess in the end what each title does in overall sales with factoring in the overall attach rate is a better indicator than looking at an individual title sell through rate on any given console.<BR><BR>So Nintendo and Sony can brag all they want about hardware sales. However, unless the software sales pickup and the overall attach rate, MS doesn't have much to worry about unless their hardware sales drop off the face of the planet. Which doesn't seem to be happening. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>You know those numbers sort of make me wonder. Does NPD data include XBLA titles for their sales charts and/or attach rates?<BR><BR>It'd be interesting to know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>lyme is correct. They do not include them. Why? I have no clue. With the number of arcade titles being purchased that # would go way up IMO.<BR><BR>Last 12 months. XBOX LIVE - $180 Million in sales.

 

[kaldec]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fooish101:<BR>Nice to see that Civ Rev made the top 10. I hope this encourages developers to bring some more turn based strategy games to our way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Seeing console developers get into strategy games would be nice I guess. It's more likely that other PC strategy developers would dumb-down, err I mean simplify and make more accessible their games and release on consoles.

 

[Robert Jung]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR>Is this the first generation ever in which the top selling console (Wii) has one of the worst attach rates? I don't recall that happening before. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Fortunately for Nintendo, it's not happening now, either.<BR><BR>Since you didn't bother to support your assertion with any facts or figures, here are some to chew on: Wii Has Highest Software Sales for First 18 Months<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">About 50 million games were sold for the Wii in its first 18 months, compared to about 42 million games in the first 18 months of the Playstation 2's life. The Xbox 360 came in at 30 million or so, the Xbox at roughly 28 million and finally the Playstation 3 at about 20 million. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Also: Third-Party Games Not Selling on Wii is a False Assumption:<BR><BR>View image: http://www.aolcdn.com/ch_gamedaily/nintendosalesassumptionchart.jpg <BR><BR>--R.J.

 

[Orange Green]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sanctusx2:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR><BR><BR><BR>Install Base:<BR>Wii - 13.52 Million<BR>360 - 12.24 Million<BR>PS3 - 5.5 Million<BR><BR>According to NPD here are the attach rates:<BR><BR>360 - 7.5 per console<BR>Wii - 5.3 per console<BR>PS3 - 4.6 per console<BR><BR>So Nintendo and Sony can brag all they want about hardware sales. However, unless the software sales pickup and the overall attach rate, MS doesn't have much to worry about unless their hardware sales drop off the face of the planet. Which doesn't seem to be happening. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Does NPD data include XBLA titles for their sales charts and/or attach rates? </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>lyme is correct. They do not include them. Why? I have no clue. With the number of arcade titles being purchased that # would go way up IMO.<BR><BR>Last 12 months. XBOX LIVE - $180 Million in sales. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>NPD only measures retail sales from stores which agree to be monitored -- basically numbers rung up on the actual cash registers. Online sales are not tracked by NPD. IIRC, Wal-Mart sales are also <I>not</I> monitored because Wal-Mart doesn't share their sales data.<BR><BR>But anyway, all this stuff about 'attach rates' of particular titles and whatnot is a bit ridiculous because NPD numbers are not meant for the fanboi retards but instead meant for investment purposes, and by the game publishers. Publishers are looking at raw sales numbers, the higher the better, to see if they are getting return of investment. 'Attach Rates' are only good for trending an entire body of software, to see where people are spending their money.

 

[bigmig]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The Wii is a different story, it shot out of the gate like nobody could have expected. It remains to be seen how it will do in the long haul. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Is this a joke? We're quickly approaching the 2 year mark for Wii/PS3 and the 3 year mark for Xbox 360...I'm going to go out on a limb here and call this one based on the blindingly obvious trends.<BR><BR>Think about it, in the last fiscal quarter sales were 5.3 million Wiis, 1.6 million PS3s, and 1.3 million XBox 360s. Even if Wii sales drop off a cliff and fall by 50% to 2.7 million, Sony will have to <B>increase</B> sales by 70% and MSFT will have to <B>increase</B> sales by 100% just to match the Wii. And they'd still lose in that extreme scenario because Wii already has a substantially larger installed base than either.<BR><BR>Edit: But if you really believe PS3 and/or XBox still have a good shot, I'll happily propose a friendly wager with great odds. If, by 1/1/2011, Wii has outsold XBox, you pay out $1000. If XBox has outsold Wii, I pay out $5000. (Same deal on PS3, but I'll only pay out $3500 instead of $5000 on that one.)

 

[Chris FOM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dmitriyk:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR>I doubt that would hold true with the number of multi-platform titles and the 360 having 49% of the market share. Attach rate is average titles owned per # of consoles but it would be interesting to know how individual titles hold up. If I take the number of units per console and then divide by the number of units sold for any title, I could figure that out. It would be interesting to see.<BR><BR>By the way what do you mean by HD titles? The 360 is HD in game output as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>There seems to be some disconnect here; let me spell it out for you. For a given game available on the PS3 and the 360 (ignoring the non-HD Wii), the number of copies sold divided by the console's installed base is usually higher for the PS3. This is the <I>exact</I> opposite of your claimed "poor attach rate" on the PS3. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Thanks for spelling it out but that doesn't make sense. I said it would be interesting because I didn't know. No need to get snappy. I was curious nothing more. So here it goes.<BR><BR>After crunching some numbers calculating how 1 title does per console isn't really an indicator of attach rate simply because the install base is so different. Attach rate only works when looking at the overall picture of all titles and not individual ones.<BR><BR>The only thing looking at one title is going to give you is what percentage of people bought that game on each console. Again, even then that doesn't tell you much considering the difference in the install base. A higher percentage of sales for a given title should be higher for a console with a smaller install base.<BR><BR>Here is what I was able to look up.<BR><BR>Install Base:<BR>Wii - 13.52 Million<BR>360 - 12.24 Million<BR>PS3 - 5.5 Million<BR><BR>According to NPD here are the attach rates:<BR><BR>360 - 7.9 per console (does not include XBOX Live game sales).<BR>Wii - 5.3 per console<BR>PS3 - 4.6 per console<BR><BR>I guess in the end what each title does in overall sales with factoring in the overall attach rate is a better indicator than looking at an individual title sell through rate on any given console.<BR><BR>So Nintendo and Sony (for July) can brag all they want about hardware sales. However, unless the software sales pickup and the overall attach rate increases, I think it's safe to say MS is doing just fine.<BR><BR>The X-factor is that MS sales on XBOX LIVE which for some reason the NPD doesn't count. MS in the last 12 months has made $180 million in the last 12 months from XBOX LIVE downloads. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I'm not feeling motivated enough to give this the long answer it deserves, but the short version is you really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to attach rates, tie ratios, or the various factors that influence them. For now, suffice it to say that the Wii is selling incredible amounts of software and its tie ratio is perfectly healthy for a console at this point in its lifespan. The 360's is abnormally large, but there are a number of factors leading to this, not all of them positive.<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">NPD only measures retail sales from stores which agree to be monitored -- basically numbers rung up on the actual cash registers. Online sales are not tracked by NPD. IIRC, Wal-Mart sales are also not monitored because Wal-Mart doesn't share their sales data. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>This, on the other hand, is much easier. NPD directly track somewhere between 60 and 70% of the US retail market, but their published numbers are statistical extrapolations that cover all 100%. That means that although NPD doesn't track Wal-Mart's sales, they estimate them, and generally are extremely accurate in doing so. Also, last April or May, NPD began tracking many online retailers, including Amazon. They were always accounted for, but now they're tracked directly.

 

[endekks]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They struggled out of the gate and people purchased it for it's Blu Ray player. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Uhm, have you looked at sales since launch figures? Here's a nice chart from vgchartz.com<BR>View image: http://img.skitch.com/20080816-d67swcfuyde1msra9ktnt93196.jpg <BR>At launch the 360 only did slightly better than the PS3. What is the threshold for you for "struggling"? People kept comparing the PS3's sales at launch to the 360's sales at the same time. Yes, that make sense, but transforming that into the PS3 having a weak launch and the 360 being exempt from that is an ill leap in logic.<BR><BR>Of course, all of this is moot since it doesn't fucking matter who sells more. Not like any of the systems are a failure - and not like one platform isn't going to have any nice exclusive titles.

 

[shevaberg]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dwell:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by brownd4:<BR>They need a successor with Blu-ray, DirectX10, updated specs, a normal-size HDD (maybe SSD), and free XBL. The console to end all consoles. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>You're basically talking the Xbox 720 then, assuming they support a new graphics standard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Probablt Direct X 11 .... there ore working on the standard now...

 

[AmericanFlats]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by davidd:<BR>Argh<BR><BR>Im SO SICK of these stupid ass monthly figures. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Here's a couple of easy solutions to your frustrations:<BR><BR>1.) Don't read them<BR><BR>2.) Don't post in the thread about the stupid ass subject <BR><BR>Problem solved!<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> How bout posting total sold.. Thats the number that actually matters. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR><BR>That would be the Wii with the most sold.<BR><BR>Anything else?

 

[AmericanFlats]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR>The 360 is doing just fine in relation to Sony. This is marathon and not a sprint. Microsoft is not in the same position or part of their life cycle that Sony is. For a system that is a year older to sell 204,800 units to Sony's 224,900 units...that's damn good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>No, it's really not that good. Seriously, the 360 barely beat out the ancient PS2 to avoid last place. <BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The Wii is a different story, it shot out of the gate like nobody could have expected. It remains to be seen how it will do in the long haul. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR><BR>The long haul? How many years and quarters of ass-kicking by the Wii will it take before you're convinced?<BR><BR>Just a fad, right?

 

[Bond.]

Strictly speaking of hardware, to me the 360 is like an American car company. (N.) Americans still buy them despite the presence of undeniably superior offerings from Japan (again, in terms of hardware).<BR><BR>davis, I couldn't agree with you more. The only reason I turn my 360 on anymore—with a *shudder* I might add—is because of my stubborn-ass friends who still throw the "Sony has no games" BS at me. One day they'll figure out that compared to the PS3, the 360 is built like a Fisher Price toy.<BR><BR>As for Nintendo, I can't understand how the novelty of the Wii is still holding so strong. The DS I get.

 

[Orange Green]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for Nintendo, I can't understand how the novelty of the Wii is still holding so strong. The DS I get. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Are you kidding me? People are still confused that the (currently) least-expensive console, with the tiniest footprint, cheaper games, simplest packaging, single un-confusing SKU, full backwards compatibility, quietest operation, and family-friendly marketing is selling the best.

 

[ShapeGSX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AmericanFlats:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR>The 360 is doing just fine in relation to Sony. This is marathon and not a sprint. Microsoft is not in the same position or part of their life cycle that Sony is. For a system that is a year older to sell 204,800 units to Sony's 224,900 units...that's damn good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>No, it's really not that good. Seriously, the 360 barely beat out the ancient PS2 to avoid last place. <BR> </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>50,000 units is "barely?"

 

[Windsong]

Lets see..a new video card (4870) or a PS3. Easy choice methinks. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif --

 

[Maximus Power]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by endekks:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They struggled out of the gate and people purchased it for it's Blu Ray player. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Uhm, have you looked at sales since launch figures? Here's a nice chart from vgchartz.com<BR><BR>At launch the 360 only did slightly better than the PS3. What is the threshold for you for "struggling"? People kept comparing the PS3's sales at launch to the 360's sales at the same time. Yes, that make sense, but transforming that into the PS3 having a weak launch and the 360 being exempt from that is an ill leap in logic.<BR><BR>Of course, all of this is moot since it doesn't fucking matter who sells more. Not like any of the systems are a failure - and not like one platform isn't going to have any nice exclusive titles. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Don't use VGChartz, it should be banned on any self-respecting forum. If you look at their latest 'numbers' they said the X360 sold 100k more units than the PS3.<BR><BR>Secondly the X360 had a worse launch than the PS3, it sold the same amount in its first full year despite only having competition from the PS2 and launching in all of the major regions simultaneously. The PS3 had competition from the Wii, PS2 and X360, it launched in Europe six months late and still sold the same as the 'successful' X360.<BR><BR>Look at the situation now, the PS3 is significantly more expensive than the X360 WW, but it still sells more. Sony are on target to ship 1m units more per calender quarter than MS.<BR><BR>Obviously the Wii is a monster, and will probably (definitely?) sell the most this gen, next gen, I expect Sony to go back to their roots, a well priced system sold at a small $50 loss.

 

[Bond.]

<blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Orange Green:<br><blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for Nintendo, I can't understand how the novelty of the Wii is still holding so strong. The DS I get. </div>
</blockquote>
<br><br>Are you kidding me? People are still confused that the (currently) least-expensive console, with the tiniest footprint, cheaper games, simplest packaging, single un-confusing SKU, full backwards compatibility, quietest operation, and family-friendly marketing is selling the best. </div>
</blockquote>Nope, not kidding you. Reggie, is that you? -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif -- I'll add to your list that it's also the least capable and has the most shovel-ware of all consoles.<br><br>And full backwards compatibility is just plain wrong unless you've found a way to jam your Nintendo cartridges in it. BC goes all the way back a single generation to an equally capable machine.<br><br>My niece and nephew who are 9 and 13 were bored of the Wii they got for Christmas by about April. They haven't got any new games, but they don't want any. They'd rather play their DS. A buddy of mine got it for his birthday last year, barely plays it. He's on his 360 all the time and the PS3 bug is starting to bite.<br><br>I'm not surprised that it has sold well and I wouldn't expect it to <i>stop</i> selling. I'm just surprised the novelty hasn't worn thin enough to start slowing sales (compared to the alternatives). It's certainly worn enough for the console to collect some dust in homes where it's not the only one.

 

[Chikahiro]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maximus Power:<BR>Secondly the X360 had a worse launch than the PS3, it sold the same amount in its first full year </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the 360 suffer from supply shortages for the first year, whereas the PS3 was in good supply all around? As I recall, the initial rush aside, Sony had enough PS3s for everyone who wanted one and would pay the retail price.<BR><BR>If sales are restrained by supply, whose to say the 360 couldn't have sold better its first year? Hell, imagine if the Wii actually kept up with demand rather than the near perpetual shortage it had been in for *how* long? I think around here the Wii is finally at the point where a system might last a whole day without being sold as opposed to a few hours.

 

[Chris FOM]

<blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bond.:<br><blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Orange Green:<br><blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for Nintendo, I can't understand how the novelty of the Wii is still holding so strong. The DS I get. </div>
</blockquote>
<br><br>Are you kidding me? People are still confused that the (currently) least-expensive console, with the tiniest footprint, cheaper games, simplest packaging, single un-confusing SKU, full backwards compatibility, quietest operation, and family-friendly marketing is selling the best. </div>
</blockquote>Nope, not kidding you. Reggie, is that you? -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif -- I'll add to your list that it's also the least capable and has the most shovel-ware of all consoles.<br><br>And full backwards compatibility is just plain wrong unless you've found a way to jam your Nintendo cartridges in it. BC goes all the way back a single generation to an equally capable machine.<br><br>My niece and nephew who are 9 and 13 were bored of the Wii they got for Christmas by about April. They haven't got any new games, but they don't want any. They'd rather play their DS. A buddy of mine got it for his birthday last year, barely plays it. He's on his 360 all the time and the PS3 bug is starting to bite.<br><br>I'm not surprised that it has sold well and I wouldn't expect it to <i>stop</i> selling. I'm just surprised the novelty hasn't worn thin enough to start slowing sales (compared to the alternatives). It's certainly worn enough for the console to collect some dust in homes where it's not the only one. </div>
</blockquote>
<br><br>Anecdotes are all well and good until broad data is available, and in this case it is. The Wii is selling vast amount of software on a continuing basis. Individual claims of Wiis gather dust are irrelevant in the face of the broader number that, since launch, the Wii has sold well over 60 million units of software. By comparison the 360 is sitting at 82 million since its launch, which includes an entire extra year compared to the Wii.

 

[Bond.]

Real experience can be far more relevant than market data, particularly when looking beyond current market trends.<BR><BR>Anyhow, all I'm saying is I'm surprised that the novelty hasn't worn off more than it has. No need to get defensive.

 

[Devin]

The novelty wearing off? What do you think the Wii is, a mankini? People can come up with all the excuses they want to describe why it is beating the other systems. What it comes down to is that it is outselling every other system, for whatever reason. <BR><BR>GG, can't wait for the next system war!

 

[Bond.]

^^^ If that was directed at me I don't give a shit how well the Wii sells. I just don't get it personally. Same as I don't get Halo or Madden or American football in general. All lame IMO.<BR><BR>And yes, for many people the Wii is no more than a novelty.<BR><BR>This thread is rapidly filling with what appears to be serious Wii fanboyism. Little point in notification here.

 

[Devin]

Oh! You said it was a novelty item, but what you meant was you THOUGHT it was a novelty item. Big difference there.<BR><BR>And for some the PS3 is a waste of money, but people still buy it. Big deal. Nothing personal here, but the majority of console shoppers seem to think the Wii is a fun toy, and a few less think that the PS3 and XBOX are fun toys.<BR><BR>/me looks for the shrug imoticon...

 

[Maximus Power]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chikahiro:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maximus Power:<BR>Secondly the X360 had a worse launch than the PS3, it sold the same amount in its first full year </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the 360 suffer from supply shortages for the first year, whereas the PS3 was in good supply all around? As I recall, the initial rush aside, Sony had enough PS3s for everyone who wanted one and would pay the retail price.<BR><BR>If sales are restrained by supply, whose to say the 360 couldn't have sold better its first year? Hell, imagine if the Wii actually kept up with demand rather than the near perpetual shortage it had been in for *how* long? I think around here the Wii is finally at the point where a system might last a whole day without being sold as opposed to a few hours. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>For about 4 months. After that you could walk in and buy one wherever you were in one of the major territories. Lost sales from shortages would be limited as the X360 had 8 months that they had a next-gen monopoly without shortages. The problem for the Wii or the PS3 is that having shortages will more than likely result in a sale for a competitor.<BR><BR>When the X360 had shortages there was no competition, sure the PS2 was obviously still there, but most people who want a new console would probably already have had a PS2 and waited until the X360 got in stock.

 

[Chikahiro]

Fair enough.<br><br>I'm still waiting for a desirable 360 and a BC-capable PS3 to hit $200 or less (provided I can prevent an insane splurge on my part) before I get into this generation. I'll be waiting quite a while, I realize, but that's what I did last generation and it was wonderful having a XB and a PS2 -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif --

 

[Bond.]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Devin:<BR>/me looks for the shrug imoticon... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That pretty much encapsulates my thoughts on your posts. No idea what you're getting so up in arms about.<BR><BR>Perhaps you need to re-familiarize yourself with the definition of novelty.

 

[AmericanFlats]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ShapeGSX:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AmericanFlats:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR>The 360 is doing just fine in relation to Sony. This is marathon and not a sprint. Microsoft is not in the same position or part of their life cycle that Sony is. For a system that is a year older to sell 204,800 units to Sony's 224,900 units...that's damn good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>No, it's really not that good. Seriously, the 360 barely beat out the ancient PS2 to avoid last place. <BR> </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>50,000 units is "barely?" </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>When your competitor is selling over 300,000 more units than you? <BR><BR>Yup, 50,000 is "barely", and the fact that the PS2 is that close to the 360 (and that every other console and portable outsold the 360) should spark some type of thought process in the back of your mind.

 

[ShapeGSX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AmericanFlats:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ShapeGSX:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AmericanFlats:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR>The 360 is doing just fine in relation to Sony. This is marathon and not a sprint. Microsoft is not in the same position or part of their life cycle that Sony is. For a system that is a year older to sell 204,800 units to Sony's 224,900 units...that's damn good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>No, it's really not that good. Seriously, the 360 barely beat out the ancient PS2 to avoid last place. <BR> </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>50,000 units is "barely?" </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>When your competitor is selling over 300,000 more units than you? <BR><BR>Yup, 50,000 is "barely", and the fact that the PS2 is that close to the 360 (and that every other console and portable outsold the 360) should spark some type of thought process in the back of your mind. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Yeah, that thought is that it is only $129, and it still plays the latest Madden, Guitar Hero and Rock Band. And that is enough for some people. The PS2 will just cruise along for a long time to come.<BR><BR>The PS3 is only 70,000 ahead of the PS2, as well. I guess that is "barely," as well, when its competitor is selling more than 300,000 units more?

 

[endekks]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If sales are restrained by supply, whose to say the 360 couldn't have sold better its first year? </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Let's bring "what if's" to the table. That's always constructive.<BR><BR>Also, while VGChartz may not be dead on with their numbers, they do, at least, have a nice chart which shows the trend: The Wii crushes all, and month by month the PS3 is comparatively (and in some timeframes currently) outpacing the 360 in sales growth. The year advantage of no competition the 360 enjoyed doesn't seem to be doing much to help it maintain a sizeable lead over its current generation competitors.

 

[SteelDog]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Orange Green:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sanctusx2:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteelDog:<BR><BR><BR><BR>Install Base:<BR>Wii - 13.52 Million<BR>360 - 12.24 Million<BR>PS3 - 5.5 Million<BR><BR>According to NPD here are the attach rates:<BR><BR>360 - 7.5 per console<BR>Wii - 5.3 per console<BR>PS3 - 4.6 per console<BR><BR>So Nintendo and Sony can brag all they want about hardware sales. However, unless the software sales pickup and the overall attach rate, MS doesn't have much to worry about unless their hardware sales drop off the face of the planet. Which doesn't seem to be happening. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Does NPD data include XBLA titles for their sales charts and/or attach rates? </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>lyme is correct. They do not include them. Why? I have no clue. With the number of arcade titles being purchased that # would go way up IMO.<BR><BR>Last 12 months. XBOX LIVE - $180 Million in sales. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>NPD only measures retail sales from stores which agree to be monitored -- basically numbers rung up on the actual cash registers. Online sales are not tracked by NPD. IIRC, Wal-Mart sales are also <I>not</I> monitored because Wal-Mart doesn't share their sales data.<BR><BR>But anyway, all this stuff about 'attach rates' of particular titles and whatnot is a bit ridiculous because NPD numbers are not meant for the fanboi retards but instead meant for investment purposes, and by the game publishers. Publishers are looking at raw sales numbers, the higher the better, to see if they are getting return of investment. 'Attach Rates' are only good for trending an entire body of software, to see where people are spending their money. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Ofcourse these numbers are not meant to be an exact figure but just a sampling. It's true that that the NPD does not track all. I noted that in that MS has had 180 million dollars in XBOX Live sales not included in NPD as well.<BR><BR>However, it does give an idea.