Sony removes still-unmet “8K” promise from PS5 packaging
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
Upvote
-1
(0
/
-1)
768p was never a real TV resolution, there is no content for it, it's 720p or 1080p (or 2160p). You'd expect modern manufacturing processes to eliminate the need for binning 1080p panels into smaller 768p ones (at least to the point it isn't worth it anymore), but nope. In fact, it's still possible to get an LCD screen with burnt pixels today (ask me how I know), but that's another rant for another day.
I'd argue it's becoming a bigger issue with the move to Smart TV UIs and SmartTV boxes (think Nvidia Shield and Amazon Fire TV stick), since today you spend a lot of time looking at UIs which often include tiny letters (for descriptions etc) that get squashed to pixelated letters when downscaled to 768p. And source devices are gradually dropping native 720p support (they downscale internally from 1080p instead).
Last edited:
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)
No, the PS5 can play BDs and UHD BDs .
https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/hardware/play-video-music-discs-usb-drives/#ps5disc
Here's a comparison of its BD playback compared to Xbox Series X:
https://www.whathifi.com/advice/which-is-the-best-4k-blu-ray-player-ps5-or-xbox-series-x
Only 3D Blu-ray support was dropped.
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
Oh, I must have been thinking CD playback.
Just rip 'em. Who the fuck is actually fumbling with discs?
Upvote
-1
(0
/
-1)
I doubt it can ever be eliminated, but it can be reduced. And my understanding is that the screens are 1366x768 so they can be used for either PC monitors or laptop screens, or TVs, since PC use does require pixel-perfect resolution, while TV use doesn't.
If the UIs actually look terrible to most people, you'd expect the reviews would be negative and people wouldn't buy them. But the reviews for these smaller screens seem mostly positive, like for this 19" 720p TV:
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-19-class-n10-series-led-hd-tv/6394757.p?skuId=6394757
Like, I understand you personally can't stand it, but there appears to still be a market for them, and the consumers actually buying them seem fine with them.
I get wanting a good display. I have a 55" 4K OLED at home. I just think sometimes us tech heads can act a bit snobbish suggesting certain lesser tech simply shouldn't exist anymore, even though it's filling a particular niche that there's still a market for.
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)
CD playback was removed in the PS4.
Do you think streaming 3D rips content is any easier?
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
Upvote
-1
(0
/
-1)
still-unmet “8K”? The are some newer games on PS5/SX that run close to 720P native.
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)
I don't know if you are referring to CDs or Blu-Rays, but have you ever tried ripping a UHD Blu-Ray disc? It can be done, but you need a "friendly" drive (which in plain English is a Blu-Ray drive that implements BDXL but doesn't implement AACS 2.x, or can be downgraded to a firmware version that doesn't implement AACS 2.x). You see, the problem with AACS 2.x is that when a drive implementing AACS 2.x encounters an AACS 2.x-encrypted disc, it locks the drive to anything but licensed software. And of course, you'll also need ripping software.
And there is the issue of Cinavia watermarking in some Blu-Ray discs (normal, 3D, UHD), which is a watermark that all Blu-Ray players made after 2010 have to detect (and mute playback when they encounter it on non-encrypted files).
With the above in mind, some people with Blu-Ray collections prefer to simply put a Blu-Ray disc in the drive and play it. As long as a "digital edition" of the PS5 also exists that omits the cost of the optical drive, everyone is happy.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
For real? Any game that fails to run at 1080p60 on a PS5 is bad code, plain and simple.
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)
Yes, I rip all my UHD BDs. It's not hard. Flashed a couple of BD drives with firmware that doesn't nuke the read performance of UHD BDs arbitrarily. After that, launch makeMKV, pick what you want to rip, name it, and hit go.
Cinavia is only an issue if you're playing back on a BD player. Why would you do that if you ripped off the disc? I stream across my network to devices that suck less shit than any BD player.
Upvote
0
(1
/
-1)
It can be a problem if all you have connected to the TV is a PS5 (since the edition with the optical drive is a Blu-Ray player). I don't know if the "digital edition" of the PS5 detects Cinavia or not.
But anyway, there are people out there with Blu-Ray collections who don't want to deal with drive firmware flashing and ripping tools, so there is a market for an edition of the PS5 with an optical drive.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
But you just said it doesn't work with 3D BDs...
Probably because the number of people who give a shit about 3D is even less than the number of people who can figure out how to rip a BD.
Upvote
-1
(0
/
-1)
If all you have connected to some TV is some Blu-Ray 3D-capable player and the optical-drive version of the PS5, it's still a problem. Cinavia watermarking affects all types of Blu-Ray players (normal, 3D, UHD) made after 2010. It's not present on all discs, but it's present on just enough discs to be annoying.
Also, when it comes to 3D in particular, finding players that aren't Blu-ray 3D players but do support MVC is not easy, so at least when it comes to Cinavia-watermarked Blu-ray 3D titles, you just keep the content on the disc and call it a day (and keep a Blu-ray 3D player handy).
When it comes to UHD, some people don't want to invest in ripping software and "friendly" BDXL drives for their PCs (or don't know what this even is), so again, they just keep the content on the disc and call it a day. It's why an optical-drive version of the PS5 exists. But after ripping UHD Blu-ray content, it's relatively easy to play on non-Blu-ray player hardware (with the exception of DTS issues, maybe).
Last edited:
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
It reminds me of Ps4, when Sony promised audio CD support would be coming in a future update.... Still waiting.
I want to believe Sony forgot the technique to read CD audio data, but I'm not that naive, and the world's not that whimsical. Obviously they'd rather re-sell you digital versions, or streaming subs and this is why they have not done it.
Don't have a ps5 but I doubt it can either
I want to believe Sony forgot the technique to read CD audio data, but I'm not that naive, and the world's not that whimsical. Obviously they'd rather re-sell you digital versions, or streaming subs and this is why they have not done it.
Don't have a ps5 but I doubt it can either
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
I can't find any info Sony ever promised this.
Here's a bunch of stories from before launch saying it wouldn't support CDs. Nothing about it coming later.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/31/ps4-sony-playstation-cant-play-audio-cds-mp3shttps://www.tomsguide.com/us/ps4-faq-features-limitations,news-17797.htmlhttps://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps4-doesn-t-support-external-storage/1100-6415872/https://www.theregister.com/2013/11/01/playstation_4_faq/
I did find a Polygon article that says it won't support it "at launch," but doesn't indicate it's supposed to come later, and there's only a mention of Sony saying they'll "consider" adding mp3 and DNLA support.
https://www.polygon.com/2013/10/30/5048802/playstation-4-doesnt-support-cd-or-mp3-playback-at-launch
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
i don't think there is anything to challenge there. you can chose any metric you like and set a threshold how much "worse" it can get while making encoder settings more and more constrained. the issue is how "comparable quality" is defined in terms of such metric. obviously netflix is making this as broad as possible to lower their bandwidth costs and we end up with video sludge.
Upvote
-1
(0
/
-1)
sure. even for basic metric like signal-to-noise-ratio there is certain value calculated between source material and encoded which will be less than perception thresholds for humans. and such perception threshold is defined statistically in most cases. so depending on how good your eyes are, how much you pay attention, how your viewing setup is like etc you can reduce the quality lower and lower and some people will not notice. now you can pick what % of people you want to notice the drop in quality and you encode your material based on that. we are talking lossy compression here so no 100% reproduction of the original data but that is usually not necessary in case of video entertainment.
you can do a lot with such process but not to the point of "we only need 2x the bandwidth for 4x the number of pixels".
ps
there are much better metrics designed specifically for video but i hope the idea is clear.
Upvote
-1
(0
/
-1)
None of what you wrote is actually different between streaming and discs though. The thresholds are going to be the same.
Again, what you wrote:
The "needed" made it seem like the "requirements" may be technical, but now you're arguing it's perceptual, but people's perceptions don't change depending on whether they're watching streaming or disc content.
What you argument actually seems to be is that Netflix is willing to objectively reduce information and quality in a way that some will notice, in the hopes that most won't notice, or at least won't care. That's not saying that less bandwidth is "needed" for streaming to produce comparable quality, in an objective manner, but that Netflix and other streamers are, like you, willing to stretch the margins of what "comparable quality" means, subjectively.
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
Oh, I fully admit I did not incure much 'damage', and if a lawyer approached me to be part of this class action, I'd tell them to pound sand. My comment is inherently about how the system is skewed towards law firms seeking a pay day and settling for amounts that are typically meaningless to the actual plaintiffs. The burden to claim .25 is more trouble than it's worth and my guess is any class action settlement money for these suits would not be collected and the company will not learn or change their behavior as a result of it.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
One way it can be looked at is at least the class actions are punishing the company that did something wrong, even if the ones that were wrong aren't fully/significantly compensated on an individual bases. You getting $0.25 back isn't going to impact you much, but Sony having to pay out millions may give them pause the next time they want to promote a feature the device doesn't actually have "yet," i.e. possibly never.
Upvote
3
(3
/
0)
Snarky Robot
Ars Legatus Legionis
Actually following through on a complex class-action requires law firms to spend millions of dollars with absolutely zero guarantee that they’ll win. That’s the case with any lawyer working on contingency, but large class actions tend to be multi-year affairs, generally requiring expensive experts, accommodations for witnesses, et cetera. And they take it on contingency because without that, these folks would get no justice at all. If you’re harmed for $5,000, you’ll get maybe 25 billable hours of work. You’d lose money to actually bring the case. And many of your victims won’t pay $5,000, so you’d get less legal representation. Which, in reality, means no lawsuit at all.
So, the big corporations that screw millions of people over? They LOVE it when potential victims have decided that the lawyers suing them are the bad guys.
That’s not to say that there aren’t predatory firms. There are. But the companies they sue are more than thrilled to have people focusing on the lawyers getting their 30% of the award/settlement, rather than the fact that the companies got 100% (or more, if a settlement) of the benefit originally. The lawyers made $5,000,000! Each of the 10 million victims only got $1! Who cares if we cost them each $2 of harm, blame the greedy lawyers!
Focus your ire where you will, but lots of powerful interests have incentive to get people believing lawyers (or at least certain ones) are despised. Have you heard of the McDonald’s coffee case? If so, did you hear the version focusing on the victim being greedy, or the actual one, with full understanding of the degree of harm and the corporate malfeasance? Because one is a hell of a lot more prevalent in my experience.
Which is exactly what business interests wanted people to take away.
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
yes, that was mostly what i tried to convey. netflix is lowering quality in measurable way because most customers will not notice or will not care. the most noticeable instance of this was at the beginning of pandemic where their infrastructure was strained by sudden increase of the amounts of data they needed to sent towards customers. this was very obvious if you looked at the average bitrate they were using before and after but most people did not even notice something changed.
Upvote
0
(1
/
-1)
Unfortunately, most of the time the company will try to settle and admit to no wrongdoing, and the law firm pushing the class action is incentivized to push for this solution for the payday. In rare cases a judge might intercede on behalf of the class action.
Also, millions to Sony is chump change and they will absolutely not change their behavior over that.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)
Sucks for those of us who both notice and care... All the pixels in the world don't make up for macroblocking, colour banding, terrible contrast ratios in dark scenes... Having recently re-watched Blade from a DVD, Netflix is noticeably sub-DVD quality regardless of the actual pixel count.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
Verge just released an article that reminded me of this thread, all about how Netflix deals with encoding video, and the new challenge of live streaming:
https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/22/24171581/netflix-bet-advanced-encoding-anne-aaron
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)