Someone leaked the COVID hospitalization data taken from the CDC

After a change in reporting procedure, daily updates vanished.

Read the whole story

 

[s73v3r]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

We had that. It was the Voting Rights Act, passed several decades ago. It prevented a lot of the fuckery going around now, like closing polling places in majority PoC precincts, and limiting drop boxes to one per county (moves you only do if you need too put the thumb on the scale of white supremacists). The partisan hack Roberts court struck it down recently. Now that the court has even more partisan hacks on it, anything passed that's similar would also be struck down.

Unless the court gets right sized.

 

[reuben.mathew]

I find it astonishing that this administration isn't sharing the data. Astonishing, I tell you!



Edit: better add /s

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. --Inigo Montoya

 

[Biceps]

Still, while it's unfortunate that the government isn't making this data available to the public, the data is still being maintained should the policy change in the future.

The policy should change in the future. But only if people get out there and vote out the GOP incumbents.

THe margin needs to be overwhelming - the GOP is in full voter suppression mode in all states. The only way the GOP wins at this point is by blatant cheating with the help of the Drunken Rapist and the Handmaiden who cannot enumerate the rights in the First Amendment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ou-voting/

Trump was laying out a strategy that Republicans would use in the courts that would make it more difficult to vote. In more than 300 voting cases nationally, they’ve either filed suit to strike election rules that encourage higher voter turnout, or opposed lawsuits from voting rights advocates that would expand voting.

Leaders of some large corporations like Blackstone and Charles Schwab are bankrolling the legal fight to keep people from voting, and some of the cases are being heard by judges that were appointed by Trump and confirmed by a Republican Senate that has been almost singularly focused on packing the judiciary with conservatives after holding positions vacant during the Obama administration.

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

The GOP just desperately packed SCOTUS precisely so they can strike down such efforts as “unconstitutional” (no matter how bullshit their reasoning is). It’s clear there are now at least four justices on the Court who are willing to go along with frankly insane opinions and are eager to destroy the federal government and the way it’s functioned for decades, and a potentially reliable fifth was just confirmed...

It’s going to be a fun four years of constant constitutional crises, even if Biden wins so overwhelmingly the GOP can’t cheat him out of it.

That's why Biden's best bet for success is to abolish the filibuster, and pack the court with liberals to get everything else done. It is time for the Democrats to finally play hardball; they will have a mandate to do so after this election, and failing to do so would show that it is not just the Republican Party that is incapable of governing, IMO.

 

[Biceps]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

We had that. It was the Voting Rights Act, passed several decades ago. It prevented a lot of the fuckery going around now, like closing polling places in majority PoC precincts, and limiting drop boxes to one per county (moves you only do if you need too put the thumb on the scale of white supremacists). The partisan hack Roberts court struck it down recently. Now that the court has even more partisan hacks on it, anything passed that's similar would also be struck down.

Unless the court gets right sized.

When. When the court gets right-sized.

 

[danielravennest]

Here's hoping the data are archived. Would sure hate it if it was accidentally deleted. Wouldn't surprise me.

You mean like Georgia's 2018 election data? The election overseen by the man running for Governor when he was Secretary of State?

I fully expect the shredders to be working full time come Nov 4th, despite it being illegal (Presidential Records Act).

 

[danielravennest]

The people in the US Government who actually get the work done loathe Trump. If he loses, he will be the lamest of ducks.

To give you an idea, The District of Columbia voted 90.5% Clinton, 4% Trump in 2016.

 

[wk_]

I find it astonishing that this administration isn't sharing the data. Astonishing, I tell you!



Edit: better add /s

Interestingly, similar hiding and faking data happened in Serbia. A common thing with the USA is that we are also run by the autocratic sociopath.

 

[KGFish]

Seems odd. But the data for large states, like California and Texas, is already public and updated daily. In my home state of Texas, you see can which parts of the state are currently experiencing surges and hospital shortages (currently in the Texas Panhandle and around El Paso), positivity rates, etc ..

So the data is already out there and easily available ...

Do you not get it ... again?

Yes, you can get some information out of some states. But not the coherent, uniform data set that was previously available. What happens when you are in Tennessee, surrounded by 9 other states? How do you determine regional issues when you haven't a clue what half of the other states are doing?

A major failing (albeit one of many) of the US response has been that there really hasn't been a US response. It's been scattershot attempts by states, cities, and only infrequently, groups of states. You cannot successfully fight a pandemic by yourself.

Using your example:

If you are an official in Tennessee, and curious about your surrounding neighbors, you have several options, all publicly available:
- Kentuky COVID data, updated daily: https://govstatus.egov.com/kycovid19
- Georgia COVID data, updated daily: https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report
- Virginia COVID data, updated daily: https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronaviru ... -virginia/

etc, etc ... All updated daily. All with data fidelity at least down to the county level.

Welcome to the internet.

Furthermore, as a state health official, you could also simply call up your counterparts in neighboring states and say, "Hey Lisa, send me over the latest data for you state". Et Voila.

You’re advocating spending about 200x as many resources on collating the data: every state needs to call up its neighbours every day, rather than having the fed collate everything nicely once and then everyone can use it.

I think I get it now.

There's no need for a federal government. Remove it all. Have some figure head welcome other presidents to state visits, hand out some toilet paper in a FEMA emergency, and call it a day. The states can handle everything on their own.

Until the state legislatures decide that really, the governors should just be figure heads, and have too much power anyway, and devolve everything to the counties. Who then devolve it to cities. Who then devolve it to.... I don't know, what's the libertarian word for "Warlord"?

 

[Deleted member 388703]

Seems odd. But the data for large states, like California and Texas, is already public and updated daily. In my home state of Texas, you see can which parts of the state are currently experiencing surges and hospital shortages (currently in the Texas Panhandle and around El Paso), positivity rates, etc ..

So the data is already out there and easily available ...

Why do you feel the constant need to apologize for the Trump administration? What's behind the compulsion?

The one thing Soyboy does here, the one purpose they're here, is to deliberately sow disinformation, primarily about Covid-19, with some general far-right false narrarives sprinkled in.

 

[danielravennest]

November 3 is Election Day. The day we fight back.

I'm looking forward to the Nov 4th headline "America to Trump: You're Fired!" It's so obvious a headline, I am sure someone will use it.

And it is more like "Election Month", I voted Oct 4th by dropping my absentee ballot at the official drop box at my library. As of noon today 90.28 million people have already voted by mail or in person. That's 65.5% of the 2016 total. Nov 3rd is just the last day to vote, and when the counting starts.

 

[graylshaped]

Still, while it's unfortunate that the government isn't making this data available to the public, the data is still being maintained should the policy change in the future.

The policy should change in the future. But only if people get out there and vote out the GOP incumbents.

THe margin needs to be overwhelming - the GOP is in full voter suppression mode in all states. The only way the GOP wins at this point is by blatant cheating with the help of the Drunken Rapist and the Handmaiden who cannot enumerate the rights in the First Amendment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ou-voting/

Trump was laying out a strategy that Republicans would use in the courts that would make it more difficult to vote. In more than 300 voting cases nationally, they’ve either filed suit to strike election rules that encourage higher voter turnout, or opposed lawsuits from voting rights advocates that would expand voting.

Leaders of some large corporations like Blackstone and Charles Schwab are bankrolling the legal fight to keep people from voting, and some of the cases are being heard by judges that were appointed by Trump and confirmed by a Republican Senate that has been almost singularly focused on packing the judiciary with conservatives after holding positions vacant during the Obama administration.

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

The GOP just desperately packed SCOTUS precisely so they can strike down such efforts as “unconstitutional” (no matter how bullshit their reasoning is). It’s clear there are now at least four justices on the Court who are willing to go along with frankly insane opinions and are eager to destroy the federal government and the way it’s functioned for decades, and a potentially reliable fifth was just confirmed...

It’s going to be a fun four years of constant constitutional crises, even if Biden wins so overwhelmingly the GOP can’t cheat him out of it.

That's why Biden's best bet for success is to abolish the filibuster, and pack the court with liberals to get everything else done. It is time for the Democrats to finally play hardball; they will have a mandate to do so after this election, and failing to do so would show that it is not just the Republican Party that is incapable of governing, IMO.

Biden can't abolish the filibuster. Article I specifically enables each chamber to establish its own rules.

 

[FancyShark]

November 3 is Election Day. The day we fight back.

I'm looking forward to the Nov 4th headline "America to Trump: You're Fired!" It's so obvious a headline, I am sure someone will use it.

And it is more like "Election Month", I voted Oct 4th by dropping my absentee ballot at the official drop box at my library. As of noon today 90.28 million people have already voted by mail or in person. That's 65.5% of the 2016 total. Nov 3rd is just the last day to vote, and when the counting starts.

Annoyingly, we won't see the definitive results of some states for potentially several weeks. So expect Trump and his choir to preach more of their drek about voter fraud every day until the counting is complete. And every day after that if he doesn't win.

 

[CraigJ ✅]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

We had that. It was the Voting Rights Act, passed several decades ago. It prevented a lot of the fuckery going around now, like closing polling places in majority PoC precincts, and limiting drop boxes to one per county (moves you only do if you need too put the thumb on the scale of white supremacists). The partisan hack Roberts court struck it down recently. Now that the court has even more partisan hacks on it, anything passed that's similar would also be struck down.

Unless the court gets right sized.

Yes, packing the everloving shit out of the courts is a pre-requisite.

 

[CraigJ ✅]

Still, while it's unfortunate that the government isn't making this data available to the public, the data is still being maintained should the policy change in the future.

The policy should change in the future. But only if people get out there and vote out the GOP incumbents.

THe margin needs to be overwhelming - the GOP is in full voter suppression mode in all states. The only way the GOP wins at this point is by blatant cheating with the help of the Drunken Rapist and the Handmaiden who cannot enumerate the rights in the First Amendment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ou-voting/

Trump was laying out a strategy that Republicans would use in the courts that would make it more difficult to vote. In more than 300 voting cases nationally, they’ve either filed suit to strike election rules that encourage higher voter turnout, or opposed lawsuits from voting rights advocates that would expand voting.

Leaders of some large corporations like Blackstone and Charles Schwab are bankrolling the legal fight to keep people from voting, and some of the cases are being heard by judges that were appointed by Trump and confirmed by a Republican Senate that has been almost singularly focused on packing the judiciary with conservatives after holding positions vacant during the Obama administration.

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

The GOP just desperately packed SCOTUS precisely so they can strike down such efforts as “unconstitutional” (no matter how bullshit their reasoning is). It’s clear there are now at least four justices on the Court who are willing to go along with frankly insane opinions and are eager to destroy the federal government and the way it’s functioned for decades, and a potentially reliable fifth was just confirmed...

It’s going to be a fun four years of constant constitutional crises, even if Biden wins so overwhelmingly the GOP can’t cheat him out of it.

That's why Biden's best bet for success is to abolish the filibuster, and pack the court with liberals to get everything else done. It is time for the Democrats to finally play hardball; they will have a mandate to do so after this election, and failing to do so would show that it is not just the Republican Party that is incapable of governing, IMO.

Biden can't abolish the filibuster. Article I specifically enables each chamber to establish its own rules.

I believe they only need a simple majority to get rid of it, right?

In my naive hope it goes something like:

1. Senate gets rid of filibuster rule
2. Courts get packed, voting rights legislation gets passed
3. PR and DC become states.
4. The Wyoming rule becomes law.
5. Legislation to reinstate the filibuster is passed and signed by Biden. Anything other than procedural votes in the Senate require 60% +1 votes.
6. Legislation limiting the power of the executive is passed, and signed by Biden on his last day in office.

 

[graylshaped]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

The GOP just desperately packed SCOTUS precisely so they can strike down such efforts as “unconstitutional” (no matter how bullshit their reasoning is). It’s clear there are now at least four justices on the Court who are willing to go along with frankly insane opinions and are eager to destroy the federal government and the way it’s functioned for decades, and a potentially reliable fifth was just confirmed...

It’s going to be a fun four years of constant constitutional crises, even if Biden wins so overwhelmingly the GOP can’t cheat him out of it.

That's why Biden's best bet for success is to abolish the filibuster, and pack the court with liberals to get everything else done. It is time for the Democrats to finally play hardball; they will have a mandate to do so after this election, and failing to do so would show that it is not just the Republican Party that is incapable of governing, IMO.

Biden can't abolish the filibuster. Article I specifically enables each chamber to establish its own rules.

I believe they only need a simple majority to get rid of it, right?

In my naive hope it goes something like:

1. Senate gets rid of filibuster rule
2. Courts get packed, voting rights legislation gets passed
3. PR and DC become states.
4. The Wyoming rule becomes law.
5. Legislation to reinstate the filibuster is passed and signed by Biden. Anything other than procedural votes in the Senate require 60% +1 votes.
6. Legislation limiting the power of the executive is passed, and signed by Biden on his last day in office.

Correct, and any swing in control can change it back.

Mitch saying it's the Democrats' fault for changing cloture rules on judicial appointments is silly. He didn't have to perpetuate that decision, and anyone who things he wouldn't have done it himself given Senate control and a willing tool in the White House probably can describe the taste of lead paint.

 

[nimelennar]

I don't know, what's the libertarian word for "Warlord"?

"Future Me."

I'm looking forward to the Nov 4th headline "America to Trump: You're Fired!" It's so obvious a headline, I am sure someone will use it.

I prefer "Unpresidented!" Although that would have been much more fitting if he had been removed through his impeachment trial.

 

[danielravennest]

Annoyingly, we won't see the definitive results of some states for potentially several weeks. So expect Trump and his choir to preach more of their drek about voter fraud every day until the counting is complete. And every day after that if he doesn't win.

What I hope is we get a definitive Electoral College result in the first 48 hours. The painfully slow counting of mail ballots in states that don't allow *starting* until the polls close Nov 3rd can take a few weeks if they have to. They have like a month to certify the results, then do the Electoral College voting, then forward that to the House of Representatives to be officially totaled.

I define "definitive" as a state has fewer uncounted votes than the margin between the leading candidates. States that allow postmarked ballots to arrive days later and still be counted may take a while to reach that state.

 

[FancyShark]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

We had that. It was the Voting Rights Act, passed several decades ago. It prevented a lot of the fuckery going around now, like closing polling places in majority PoC precincts, and limiting drop boxes to one per county (moves you only do if you need too put the thumb on the scale of white supremacists). The partisan hack Roberts court struck it down recently. Now that the court has even more partisan hacks on it, anything passed that's similar would also be struck down.

Unless the court gets right sized.

Yes, packing the everloving shit out of the courts is a pre-requisite.

I need to ask because everything I've read on court-packing says that there's nothing to prevent Republicans from retaliating by packing the courts in their favor next time they gain the ability to do so. Is there any guarantee that packing the courts will have enough benefits to outweigh the threat of escalation?

 

[Rrr7]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

We had that. It was the Voting Rights Act, passed several decades ago. It prevented a lot of the fuckery going around now, like closing polling places in majority PoC precincts, and limiting drop boxes to one per county (moves you only do if you need too put the thumb on the scale of white supremacists). The partisan hack Roberts court struck it down recently. Now that the court has even more partisan hacks on it, anything passed that's similar would also be struck down.

Unless the court gets right sized.

Yes, packing the everloving shit out of the courts is a pre-requisite.

I need to ask because everything I've read on court-packing says that there's nothing to prevent Republicans from retaliating by packing the courts in their favor next time they gain the ability to do so. Is there any guarantee that packing the courts will have enough benefits to outweigh the threat of escalation?

I'd have no problem with this turning into an ever-escalating war, what's the worst that could happen, having more judges than people? That would just turn us into a really weird version of direct democracy, and in the end the judiciary would be a lot more representative of the actual people

I can't see any change being worse than the "theocratic minority rule" we have now.

 

[KGFish]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

We had that. It was the Voting Rights Act, passed several decades ago. It prevented a lot of the fuckery going around now, like closing polling places in majority PoC precincts, and limiting drop boxes to one per county (moves you only do if you need too put the thumb on the scale of white supremacists). The partisan hack Roberts court struck it down recently. Now that the court has even more partisan hacks on it, anything passed that's similar would also be struck down.

Unless the court gets right sized.

Yes, packing the everloving shit out of the courts is a pre-requisite.

I need to ask because everything I've read on court-packing says that there's nothing to prevent Republicans from retaliating by packing the courts in their favor next time they gain the ability to do so. Is there any guarantee that packing the courts will have enough benefits to outweigh the threat of escalation?

I don't think there's anything preventing the Republicans from further escalating. However, at this point, we are already at an escalated state.

We have three choices:
1) Escalate as well and bring the pain to Republicans. Maybe some will back off, just like any regular bully.
2) Try to fix the shit that's broken and ignore the escalations. Maybe some Republicans will get tired of being shitheels.
3) Start from scratch.

All of them suck. Some more than others. But this is what we got.

 

[numerobis]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

We had that. It was the Voting Rights Act, passed several decades ago. It prevented a lot of the fuckery going around now, like closing polling places in majority PoC precincts, and limiting drop boxes to one per county (moves you only do if you need too put the thumb on the scale of white supremacists). The partisan hack Roberts court struck it down recently. Now that the court has even more partisan hacks on it, anything passed that's similar would also be struck down.

Unless the court gets right sized.

Yes, packing the everloving shit out of the courts is a pre-requisite.

I need to ask because everything I've read on court-packing says that there's nothing to prevent Republicans from retaliating by packing the courts in their favor next time they gain the ability to do so. Is there any guarantee that packing the courts will have enough benefits to outweigh the threat of escalation?

Nothing prevents Republicans from stealing elections and packing the court, indeed. As proved by the fact they've been doing it for 20 years.

 

[numerobis]

I don't think there's anything preventing the Republicans from further escalating. However, at this point, we are already at an escalated state.

We have three choices:
1) Escalate as well and bring the pain to Republicans. Maybe some will back off, just like any regular bully.
2) Try to fix the shit that's broken and ignore the escalations. Maybe some Republicans will get tired of being shitheels.
3) Start from scratch.

All of them suck. Some more than others. But this is what we got.

You forgot:
4) Bend over and lube up.

Assuming the Democrats do well in the present election people need to be in the streets advocating for something in 1-3 rather than the 4 that Democrats are likely to choose if not pressed.

 

[Cat Killer]

I think I get it now.

There's no need for a federal government. Remove it all. Have some figure head welcome other presidents to state visits, hand out some toilet paper in a FEMA emergency, and call it a day. The states can handle everything on their own.

Until the state legislatures decide that really, the governors should just be figure heads, and have too much power anyway, and devolve everything to the counties. Who then devolve it to cities. Who then devolve it to.... I don't know, what's the libertarian word for "Warlord"?

"Job creator."

 

[FancyShark]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

We had that. It was the Voting Rights Act, passed several decades ago. It prevented a lot of the fuckery going around now, like closing polling places in majority PoC precincts, and limiting drop boxes to one per county (moves you only do if you need too put the thumb on the scale of white supremacists). The partisan hack Roberts court struck it down recently. Now that the court has even more partisan hacks on it, anything passed that's similar would also be struck down.

Unless the court gets right sized.

Yes, packing the everloving shit out of the courts is a pre-requisite.

I need to ask because everything I've read on court-packing says that there's nothing to prevent Republicans from retaliating by packing the courts in their favor next time they gain the ability to do so. Is there any guarantee that packing the courts will have enough benefits to outweigh the threat of escalation?

I'd have no problem with this turning into an ever-escalating war, what's the worst that could happen, having more judges than people? That would just turn us into a really weird version of direct democracy

I can't see any change being worse than want we have now.

Fair point.

The main issue I'd read from this democracyjournal.org article is this:

If Democrats pull the trigger on court-packing, the battle over the judiciary will become a full-out war. Republicans will retaliate with more court-packing if they regain control of the federal government. Red-state governors will refuse to obey Supreme Court decisions they disagree with, forcing the (then-Democratic) President to send federal marshals or even federal troops to enforce such decisions. Overzealous use of marshals and soldiers could easily trigger civil unrest.

Granted, this doesn't really lay out in detail if the scenario above is the worst we could expect, one possible outcome, or best-case. The author also makes a point of saying he isn't sure if Democrats should pack the court or not when the Supreme Court is going to be left lopsided if they do nothing.

I get nervous when spiteful solutions are advocated, because such measures frequently seem capable of coming back around and biting people in the ass.

Case in point:
In the Wisconsin 2018 elections, Scott Walker lost the governorship to Tony Evers by at least a 1% majority. Republicans briefly were calling for a recount, but Walker had passed a law or executive order or something (yeah, I'm a reliable source) that made it so calls for recounts could not be brought up unless the margin was less than 1%. He did that specifically to spite the Democrats for calling for a recount after the results were announced for the 2016 election.

While I had a good laugh at the karmic justice, it's what comes to mind now when I see people advocating for court-packing. I know worrying about this is the same mentality that's prevented the Dems from growing a spine all these years. I'm just hoping I'm seeing this the wrong way.

edit: added clarification

 

[woodturner]

I find it astonishing that this administration isn't sharing the data. Astonishing, I tell you!



Edit: better add /s

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. --Inigo Montoya

I think you don’t realize the /s means I’m being sarcastic.

 

[azazel1024]

Birx is definitely going down as a villain in this story. Despite her grimaces when Trump suggested injecting disinfectant.

It's amazing how low the bar is right now. Expressing displeasure at injecting disinfectant is taken by many to be all the proof they need that she's a trustworthy and knowledgeable public figure.

It will be hard for the Biden administration to recalibrate expectations for a society that's literally expecting a scandalous revelation of criminal activity every four hours. This isn't to say he'll have an easy time of it -- he'll be called boring, scandals will be fabricated to meet public demand, etc. He may be okay, though -- as long as he doesn't wear a tan suit.

Perhaps recalibrated in that there is a new indictment every 4 hours for officials involved from what will (hopefully) be the former administrations criminal actions.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

The main issue I'd read from this democracyjournal.org article is this:

If Democrats pull the trigger on court-packing, the battle over the judiciary will become a full-out war. Republicans will retaliate with more court-packing if they regain control of the federal government. Red-state governors will refuse to obey Supreme Court decisions they disagree with, forcing the (then-Democratic) President to send federal marshals or even federal troops to enforce such decisions. Overzealous use of marshals and soldiers could easily trigger civil unrest.

Granted, this doesn't really lay out in detail if the scenario above is the worst we could expect, one possible outcome, or best-case. The author also makes a point of saying he isn't sure if Democrats should pack the court or not when the Supreme Court is going to be left lopsided if they do nothing.

He's ignoring the obvious. Court-packing is already going on, being perpetrated by Republicans. They stymied judicial appointments during Obama's tenure, even illegally denying him a SCOTUS nomination, and then crammed through as many Heritage Foundation-via-Trump appointees as their stenographers could keep up with, even ones with zero experience.

"Court packing" is not synonymous with "expanding the size of the court." It's about ignoring procedural norms to achieve an unbalanced court.

 

[azazel1024]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

We had that. It was the Voting Rights Act, passed several decades ago. It prevented a lot of the fuckery going around now, like closing polling places in majority PoC precincts, and limiting drop boxes to one per county (moves you only do if you need too put the thumb on the scale of white supremacists). The partisan hack Roberts court struck it down recently. Now that the court has even more partisan hacks on it, anything passed that's similar would also be struck down.

Unless the court gets right sized.

Yes, packing the everloving shit out of the courts is a pre-requisite.

I just don't see it happening though. I can hope, but there are still going to be a lot of senators from conservative leaning states who are Democrats. A lot of them care about political power and even if Biden wins in a landslide, a whole lot of conservative voting for him are doing it because they passionately hate Biden and think Republican politicians in congress have been complicit (well, some of them think that). Many of them voting against Trump are not remotely upset about all of the judicial appointments.

So if the senate and house vote to pack the courts, you can expect a number of the democratic senators in conservative leaning states to lose their seats (same with a ton of swing district democrats). Now, democrats are likely to extend their lead or take over a number of state houses and the census apportionment and re-districting is going to be in their hands before the next election.

So maybe it wouldn't go bad. But I still see the next election not going well if Democrats remove the filibuster and/or pack the SCOTUS. I don't know what I want to hope for (actually I do, remove the filibuster, pack the courts, fix gerrymandering and my fellow Americans becoming sane and a new political party forming to be a polite opposition to the democrats with the Republican party being a nasty footnote in history books. Oh and the democratic party reforming too somewhere in there. I'd also like a unicorn).

 

[FancyShark]

The main issue I'd read from this democracyjournal.org article is this:

If Democrats pull the trigger on court-packing, the battle over the judiciary will become a full-out war. Republicans will retaliate with more court-packing if they regain control of the federal government. Red-state governors will refuse to obey Supreme Court decisions they disagree with, forcing the (then-Democratic) President to send federal marshals or even federal troops to enforce such decisions. Overzealous use of marshals and soldiers could easily trigger civil unrest.

Granted, this doesn't really lay out in detail if the scenario above is the worst we could expect, one possible outcome, or best-case. The author also makes a point of saying he isn't sure if Democrats should pack the court or not when the Supreme Court is going to be left lopsided if they do nothing.

He's ignoring the obvious. Court-packing is already going on, being perpetrated by Republicans. They stymied judicial appointments during Obama's tenure, even illegally denying him a SCOTUS nomination, and then crammed through as many Heritage Foundation-via-Trump appointees as their stenographers could keep up with, even ones with zero experience.

"Court packing" is not synonymous with "expanding the size of the court." It's about ignoring procedural norms to achieve an unbalanced court.

That's a very good point. I've been only thinking of it in terms of court size, and only the Supreme Court. There's been truckloads of federal judges they've pushed through since 2016.

 

[sixstringedthing]

The main issue I'd read from this democracyjournal.org article is this:

If Democrats pull the trigger on court-packing, the battle over the judiciary will become a full-out war. Republicans will retaliate with more court-packing if they regain control of the federal government. Red-state governors will refuse to obey Supreme Court decisions they disagree with, forcing the (then-Democratic) President to send federal marshals or even federal troops to enforce such decisions. Overzealous use of marshals and soldiers could easily trigger civil unrest.

Granted, this doesn't really lay out in detail if the scenario above is the worst we could expect, one possible outcome, or best-case. The author also makes a point of saying he isn't sure if Democrats should pack the court or not when the Supreme Court is going to be left lopsided if they do nothing.

He's ignoring the obvious. Court-packing is already going on, being perpetrated by Republicans. They stymied judicial appointments during Obama's tenure, even illegally denying him a SCOTUS nomination, and then crammed through as many Heritage Foundation-via-Trump appointees as their stenographers could keep up with, even ones with zero experience.

"Court packing" is not synonymous with "expanding the size of the court." It's about ignoring procedural norms to achieve an unbalanced court.

That's a very good point. I've been only thinking of it in terms of court size, and only the Supreme Court. There's been truckloads of federal judges they've pushed through since 2016.

And the Dems need to start using exactly the same strategies. Someone else said it above, hardball time. None of this "hands together over the table" rubbish.

This fucking clown car of a country needs to secure its shit and get back on the road, instead of sitting in the truck stop parking lot smelling of stale CEO semen and hamberder farts.

[Edited because it sounded a little like a personal attack, would not want to be misunderstood]

2nd edit to add: And to the inevitable and inescapable partisan response of "But Biden/Dems are just as bad!" I say "at least they're not actively trying to fucking murder a significant chunk of the population". Forgive the cursing but I'm just mad, sad and bewildered by it all, and I don't even live there. Good luck this week.

 

[ARSBodger]

In the military we just used the acronym CYA. It is ever SO convenient to be able to classify and hide information about your own f***k-ups at will.

 

[Iggy the Jiggy Piggy]

Hopefully, the wannabe orange dicktater's attempt to control all messaging at the federal level will go bye-bye with a "regime change" following Tuesday's election.

Hopefully you're right. But he lost the popular vote by 2% in 2016 and still won the election. We'll need everyone to get out there and vote!

Here's hoping the data are archived. Would sure hate it if it was accidentally deleted. Wouldn't surprise me.

Although the data distribution is designed to be "managed" by the Whitehouse, it exists in enough places that it could be reconsolidated easily. This is something Trump cannot pay or tantrum away,

 

[CraigJ ✅]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

We had that. It was the Voting Rights Act, passed several decades ago. It prevented a lot of the fuckery going around now, like closing polling places in majority PoC precincts, and limiting drop boxes to one per county (moves you only do if you need too put the thumb on the scale of white supremacists). The partisan hack Roberts court struck it down recently. Now that the court has even more partisan hacks on it, anything passed that's similar would also be struck down.

Unless the court gets right sized.

Yes, packing the everloving shit out of the courts is a pre-requisite.

I just don't see it happening though. I can hope, but there are still going to be a lot of senators from conservative leaning states who are Democrats. A lot of them care about political power and even if Biden wins in a landslide, a whole lot of conservative voting for him are doing it because they passionately hate Biden and think Republican politicians in congress have been complicit (well, some of them think that). Many of them voting against Trump are not remotely upset about all of the judicial appointments.

So if the senate and house vote to pack the courts, you can expect a number of the democratic senators in conservative leaning states to lose their seats (same with a ton of swing district democrats). Now, democrats are likely to extend their lead or take over a number of state houses and the census apportionment and re-districting is going to be in their hands before the next election.

So maybe it wouldn't go bad. But I still see the next election not going well if Democrats remove the filibuster and/or pack the SCOTUS. I don't know what I want to hope for (actually I do, remove the filibuster, pack the courts, fix gerrymandering and my fellow Americans becoming sane and a new political party forming to be a polite opposition to the democrats with the Republican party being a nasty footnote in history books. Oh and the democratic party reforming too somewhere in there. I'd also like a unicorn).

I don't see ANY of it happening.

I see the Democrats trying to play nice with the Republicans to try to "restore civility" and a return to the status quo, after which Democrats will lose enthusiasm the Republicans regain power in 4 or 8 years.

The best we can hope for IMO is that Biden wins and we get 8 years of Biden, or 4 years of Biden and 4 years of Harris, and enough old, white Republicans die off over the next 8 years to shift the demographics enough so that Republicans don't win any more national elections.

 

[ajmas]

Birx is definitely going down as a villain in this story. Despite her grimaces when Trump suggested injecting disinfectant.

You may find that while she may have gone in with good intentions and knowing better, she got caught up with the influences of Trump. It’s is also possible that she is caught, not being allowed to do the job she needs to do? Sometimes there is more going on behind the scenes than we are aware of.

 

[DarthSlack]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

We had that. It was the Voting Rights Act, passed several decades ago. It prevented a lot of the fuckery going around now, like closing polling places in majority PoC precincts, and limiting drop boxes to one per county (moves you only do if you need too put the thumb on the scale of white supremacists). The partisan hack Roberts court struck it down recently. Now that the court has even more partisan hacks on it, anything passed that's similar would also be struck down.

Unless the court gets right sized.

Yes, packing the everloving shit out of the courts is a pre-requisite.

I just don't see it happening though. I can hope, but there are still going to be a lot of senators from conservative leaning states who are Democrats. A lot of them care about political power and even if Biden wins in a landslide, a whole lot of conservative voting for him are doing it because they passionately hate Biden and think Republican politicians in congress have been complicit (well, some of them think that). Many of them voting against Trump are not remotely upset about all of the judicial appointments.

So if the senate and house vote to pack the courts, you can expect a number of the democratic senators in conservative leaning states to lose their seats (same with a ton of swing district democrats). Now, democrats are likely to extend their lead or take over a number of state houses and the census apportionment and re-districting is going to be in their hands before the next election.

So maybe it wouldn't go bad. But I still see the next election not going well if Democrats remove the filibuster and/or pack the SCOTUS. I don't know what I want to hope for (actually I do, remove the filibuster, pack the courts, fix gerrymandering and my fellow Americans becoming sane and a new political party forming to be a polite opposition to the democrats with the Republican party being a nasty footnote in history books. Oh and the democratic party reforming too somewhere in there. I'd also like a unicorn).

How do you see it going if the Democrats don't kill the filibuster and pack the Court? It's been clear since that shitheel of shitheels, Newt Gingrich, that the Republicans don't give a flying fuck about cooperating with anything the Democrats want. Moscow Mitch has raised obstructionism to a high art form. NOT getting rid of the filibuster means the Democrats will never, ever get to govern even if they win the Presidency, House and Senate.

Same for the Supreme Court. NOT packing the hell out of it means that the Republicans have been rewarded handsomely for being complete assholes. And when you reward people for being assholes, they respond with even more assholery.

Right now, the Republican party needs a damn good kicking. No playing nice, the Democrats need to demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that if Republicans want to play the bully, well, so can the Democrats.

 

[Coinneach]

. I don't know, what's the libertarian word for "Warlord"?

Sheriff.

 

[numerobis]

Birx is definitely going down as a villain in this story. Despite her grimaces when Trump suggested injecting disinfectant.

You may find that while she may have gone in with good intentions and knowing better, she got caught up with the influences of Trump. It’s is also possible that she is caught, not being allowed to do the job she needs to do? Sometimes there is more going on behind the scenes than we are aware of.

Why make excuses for her? Intentions aren't magic. She drove this completely broken data collection idea.

 

[KGFish]

I don't know, what's the libertarian word for "Warlord"?

"Future Me."

Touche.

 

[Rrr7]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

We had that. It was the Voting Rights Act, passed several decades ago. It prevented a lot of the fuckery going around now, like closing polling places in majority PoC precincts, and limiting drop boxes to one per county (moves you only do if you need too put the thumb on the scale of white supremacists). The partisan hack Roberts court struck it down recently. Now that the court has even more partisan hacks on it, anything passed that's similar would also be struck down.

Unless the court gets right sized.

Yes, packing the everloving shit out of the courts is a pre-requisite.

I need to ask because everything I've read on court-packing says that there's nothing to prevent Republicans from retaliating by packing the courts in their favor next time they gain the ability to do so. Is there any guarantee that packing the courts will have enough benefits to outweigh the threat of escalation?

I'd have no problem with this turning into an ever-escalating war, what's the worst that could happen, having more judges than people? That would just turn us into a really weird version of direct democracy

I can't see any change being worse than want we have now.

Fair point.

The main issue I'd read from this democracyjournal.org article is this:

If Democrats pull the trigger on court-packing, the battle over the judiciary will become a full-out war. Republicans will retaliate with more court-packing if they regain control of the federal government. Red-state governors will refuse to obey Supreme Court decisions they disagree with, forcing the (then-Democratic) President to send federal marshals or even federal troops to enforce such decisions. Overzealous use of marshals and soldiers could easily trigger civil unrest.

Granted, this doesn't really lay out in detail if the scenario above is the worst we could expect, one possible outcome, or best-case. The author also makes a point of saying he isn't sure if Democrats should pack the court or not when the Supreme Court is going to be left lopsided if they do nothing.

I get nervous when spiteful solutions are advocated, because such measures frequently seem capable of coming back around and biting people in the ass.

Wait, you're worried that red states who are kept afloat by the fed giving them the tax revenue from blue states are not gonna comply with federal laws??

That's not how this works, no need for any troops, the stick is taking away their teat.

edit: here's some data

https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/c ... story.html

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-l ... nment/2700

 

[ZippyPeanut]

If the Democrats win aren't defeated by cheating one of the things they absolutely need to do is pass federal legislation making it easy for people to vote. If everyone votes Republicans will be purged from government.

We had that. It was the Voting Rights Act, passed several decades ago. It prevented a lot of the fuckery going around now, like closing polling places in majority PoC precincts, and limiting drop boxes to one per county (moves you only do if you need too put the thumb on the scale of white supremacists). The partisan hack Roberts court struck it down recently. Now that the court has even more partisan hacks on it, anything passed that's similar would also be struck down.

Unless the court gets right sized.

Yes, packing the everloving shit out of the courts is a pre-requisite.

I need to ask because everything I've read on court-packing says that there's nothing to prevent Republicans from retaliating by packing the courts in their favor next time they gain the ability to do so. Is there any guarantee that packing the courts will have enough benefits to outweigh the threat of escalation?

I don't think there's anything preventing the Republicans from further escalating. However, at this point, we are already at an escalated state.

We have three choices:
1) Escalate as well and bring the pain to Republicans. Maybe some will back off, just like any regular bully.
2) Try to fix the shit that's broken and ignore the escalations. Maybe some Republicans will get tired of being shitheels.
3) Start from scratch.

All of them suck. Some more than others. But this is what we got.

"Maybe some Republicans will get tired of being shitheels."

Why would they want to stop doing something in which the excel so perfectly?