We use dirt rather than salt where I live when the roads are icy. Other than inertia, does anyone know what barriers are in place to adopt that more widely?
Maybe existing contracts with capitalist donors who supply the salt? Just spitballing.
Also, winters are getting milder, so less salt ought to be needed.
I wouldn't say he's doing everything to make the problem worse.And there's an orange loon doing everything to make things worse and European nations preparing for war (which greatly exacerbates the problem). We are very screwed.
This is something impacting Maryland right now. 87% of the state is in drought, and where I work and live is in severe drought status. Driving to and from work all the plants are brown. Even large evergreens are browning and losing their lower leaves, with some small ones dying outright. We just had a little bit of rain (under projections) so grasses have been revived a bit, but what else happened? My car got absolutely coated in road salt from the kicked up spray, in the middle of March. There's no rain so the old brine just lingers, which surely can't be good for life at the road's edges when combined with the drought.But climate-fueled droughts and rising temperatures are making this strategy more difficult. During parched periods, there is less water available to dilute the system and flush out the salt, while rising seas push salt into the watershed, a process known as saltwater intrusion.
Taking Florida for example, is there a saline gradient as you work inwards from the coast?
Seems like some monitoring wells might be a good idea.
Typically the hydraulic gradient is from land to the sea with fresh groundwater discharging into the ocean.Taking Florida for example, is there a saline gradient as you work inwards from the coast?
Seems like some monitoring wells might be a good idea.
Take Florida...please...Taking Florida for example, is there a saline gradient as you work inwards from the coast?
Seems like some monitoring wells might be a good idea.
Desalinization is the future.
but I'd guess highway departments see it as a double whammy - helps with the ice in winter, cuts down on vegetation maintenance in the summer; but salting your own land never really seemed like a good long-term approach.
Next election? That's pretty optimistic, assuming there will be a next election.Look on the bright side. if sea level rise accelerates fast enough, Florida could be underwater before the next election.
That just means only those with boats get votes. Maybe even one vote per boat, to make up for those that have no boats. The boated votes will surely do what's right by the unboated, they pinky-swear, and when was a rich person ever bad? George Soros excepted.Look on the bright side. if sea level rise accelerates fast enough, Florida could be underwater before the next election.
Wouldn't this be more of a King Cnute situation?I'm sure the EPA will be right on top of this before it becomes a major threat to health and the economy. . .
Not surprising to me.Yeah... if we don't hit 2C by 2035 I will be amazed. A bit surprising how quickly the thing is unraveling. Then there is the wrecking ball in the White House...motto "I'll burn down the government... then build a golden palace with the charcoal and ash"
Only Paul and Ringo have any juice left.You get it by squeezing John, Paul, George, and Ringo...
Psst... it was freeskier, and it doesn't seem intentionalWhoosh.. Rector intentionally spelled it "beat" juice.
If Germany leaves the EU that will be the sign it's about to go off.And there's an orange loon doing everything to make things worse and European nations preparing for war (which greatly exacerbates the problem). We are very screwed.
That'll help lower prices for everyday people...Desalinization is the future.
Argh, you beet me to it. (And I finally saw autocorrect in the act of changing a properly spelled word to a different word. It changed beet to be. Until now I've only seen it after posting, and I was sure I had it right the first time but I never caught the actual moment of change. Bad autocorrect! You should only step in if it's not a real word!)production has been at 50% for some time now, and forecasted to continue to decline...
On the bright side (?), in the three hurricanes that hit me last year (not a joke) the rain was a bigger factor than the storm surge, and I'm on the coast, and I think I was on the surge side of all three. Most people here still don't think it's realNot to diminish the article and it's seriousness, but these concerns have always been there and have been an active area of research for a little while now.
I've done a tiny bit of work looking at contamination of groundwater resources from saltwater intrusion in coastal settings, mostly report writing and a modeling exercise. This is something that is terrifying common in coastal aquifers. People pump groundwater from coastal aquifers and it pulls seawater inland which makes for salty water supplies. Add drought effects increasing groundwater demand along with the increase in sea levels, you are effectively increasing the rate of seawater intrusion. That's not getting into storm surges, which will intensify, pushing seawater overland and contaminating freshwater resources from above.
From a soil salinity perspective, a knock on effect for increasing salinity, at least with sodium, changes the charge distribution on clay particles. The clays end up dispersing and clogging pores that make it more difficult for water to flow through. And that's not getting into kicking off heavy metals and other contaminants that were previously sticking to the clay particles. Those end up being released into the groundwater and eventually into someone's tap or some surface water body.
The disheartening thing about all of this is that dialogue is breaking down and people are more willing to point fingers in blame while not coming up with and actually implementing solutions to avert the crises that are coming up. Literally hundreds of millions are going to not have suitable freshwater, or already don't have suitable freshwater, in the coming decades and sadly I am skeptical that it will be properly dealt with.
If I sound salty, it's because I work on an environment adjacent field (hydrogeology) and am witness to this sort of stuff with increasing regularity.
I'd like to see most roadways covered with solar panels - would eliminate blindness from the sun, lower temps of roads, make headlights less blinding, and there could even be multi-use trails built in. You could even have the utilities elevated and accessible without tearing up the streets. But it would have to be a high-tech, wealthy country to even experiment with something like that. I live in the United StatesCombination of factors, most probably not nefarious (unless you count political inertia itself as nefarious). Certainly, a big part is that often as a collective, people just don't care about the environment that much and aren't good at accounting for externalities, but there are legitimate safety issues.
Sand provides extra traction but isn't a good replacement for ice not being there in the first place. It necessitates technique and skill to drive on, and often people lack this, particularly on areas that rarely encounter heavy snow and ice (not really a failing on their part if they don't have a chance to develop those skills). I live in Richmond, VA, which only reliably gets maybe one big snowstorm a year, and it's startling how much it shuts down a major metropolitan area, even coming from only slightly north in Maryland (where I learned to drive). Like, routine for most of the city to close down for half an inch sort of thing. And I'm of the opinion that whatever, let that happen and don't use salt, everything is going to melt by the end of the day anyways and it'll be fine for the most part.
But this year, we had several weeks of on-and-off freezing rain and snow that was already crippling the city and surrounding counties (we lost water pressure across the entire city as the main pumps failed and that resulted in a boil water notice for about a week which spread to the counties), and that might be a little long to essentially ask everyone to hunker down for, especially when people need to drive to the store to get water. Nobody here knows how to drive in icy conditions (again, not a moral failing on their part) whether there's sand or not, so salt became something of a necessity to let people get around.
With all that said, I certainly think whoever makes these decisions has been a little trigger happy, frequently resulting in salt trucks driving around and the following day ends up being 40+ degrees F. But it's also really easy to make that call in hindsight when you know how it turned out despite the forecast calling for 30F and freezing rain all day, and the kids haven't been to school in two weeks because of ice. It's a weird place with weather that is often hard to predict.
I care a lot about this sort of thing, as evidenced but this really long post (native insects are one of my personal passions, which is strongly connected to both waterway health and marginal plant populations, both of which are negatively impacted by salt usage) but I do acknowledge it's always going to be a trade-off with human safety, and it can be a tough pill to swallow that in order for some weeds and fish to survive, some people might get hurt or killed due to road conditions.
On the other hand, that was the issue before human health was at issue. Still, I'm not confident that more nebulous and diffuse health issues will outweigh the thought of acute, horrifying car accidents (or even the struggle of dealing with school closures). Let's just say that US culture has never been particularly good at addressing that sort of thing.
Don't worry, we won't leave, we'll be like the Black Knight - "only me toes are wet!"I wonder what a generation or two from now will do with all those displaced persons from Florida.
The governor didn't or couldn't stop him from delivering that delicious water to the poor thirstyThis is exactly why the state of California limits how much farmers can take from the freshwater that flows out from many lakes and streams into the Pacific.
If ever allowed to take too much of that water, we could wind up in a situation with insufficient freshwater outflow to hold back the salty sea from trying to come inland from the other way. The disaster that would come from this Is why the governor can’t give Trump the things that he asks.
But you never hear this side of the story only the part about the endangered fish.
Maga - make America go awayThe Romans were rather careful to make sure that it was somebody else's land that they salted. Usually as the last stage in war of extermination.
It's been ten years since I've realized it too. Nine years since I realized we were going to collectively stick our fingers in our ears and shout "lalalala I can't hear you". My first realization didn't even come from the news, it came from physics, chemistry, and various marine sciences while getting my degree. It's one reason I wish I hadn't gone to school. I learned the full scale of enthalpy of phase change, Lavoisier's principle, the fact that the ocean floor should be pretty warm if there weren't cold water descending upon it, satellite observation and climate/weather models were using planar approximations instead of volumetric measures (meaning 7% more water in air per degree doesn't actually work), and professors who talked about sea ice loss seemed to focus solely on the change in albedo. Ohhh crap. Then Trump got elected and I knew fate was sealed. Not to mention cognitive changes in humans at 500ppm CO² making for worse critical thinking and more stress/anger.Yeah, I've been saying that for a while. Like a decade or more.
And I'm relatively confident that we're already busting tipping points. One is absolutely certain. The Greenland ice sheet is doomed.
Off the top of my head, I'm not recalling any tipping points showing ANY signs of slowing down. It's pretty much the opposite. And I expect those failures will be increasingly catastrophic for civilization as the next few decades (not centuries) go by.
The thing that people seem to not get (present collective company excepted) is that it won't be climate change ITSELF that does us in. We will do it to ourselves. There are too many people using too many resources in a too inefficient way for the civilization we use in that manner to survive. The irony is that this is a perfectly survivable event, for a much much less numerous, and much less technologically advanced species.
High levels of resource scarcity and population pressure have RELIABLY led to large-scale warfare in our history. Look at the fall of civilization in Syria and other countries more impacted by climate change-induced drought than most. That's the roadmap for SMALL SCALE civilization collapse. The large scale collapses have yet to happen. But based on our global plans and trajectory today, it will happen. And were I a betting man, I expect it will be within the next generation (barring another Disease X that takes out half the population of the planet inside of a year, which in and of itself, may be enough incentive on the parts of some totalitarian states losing control over their people to push the button on all of civilization).
And people wonder why I don't sleep well.
Call me Chicken Little, but the sky IS falling. It's just not falling in a way that alarms enough people to do something about it fast enough to survive the impact when it lands.
Brine, it's got electrolytes.I, for one, salute our new brine overlord.
Think brine...it's time.
Pour me a salty dog while I contemplate this new threat.
That's the sort of thing that Big Government would provide, and a Deep State to report the results, which would always be It's Worse Now. None of that is happening in the new regime!Taking Florida for example, is there a saline gradient as you work inwards from the coast?
Seems like some monitoring wells might be a good idea.
Deathsentence will soon promote Florida's "new boater" voter law, only those with a boat are allowed to get registered to vote...That just means only those with boats get votes. Maybe even one vote per boat, to make up for those that have no boats. The boated votes will surely do what's right by the unboated, they pinky-swear, and when was a rich person ever bad? George Soros excepted.
/s
Yep. We are screwed. How quickly and how badly remains to be seen. My prediction? Kinetic interventions will be widespread in much of the US in less than 2 years time. Massive mobilizations by top tier governmental militaries in less than 5 years. You know those "supply chain issues" from Covid? As the Guess Who song said cYou ain't seen nuthin yet".It's been ten years since I've realized it too. Nine years since I realized we were going to collectively stick our fingers in our ears and shout "lalalala I can't hear you". My first realization didn't even come from the news, it came from physics, chemistry, and various marine sciences while getting my degree. It's one reason I wish I hadn't gone to school. I learned the full scale of enthalpy of phase change, Lavoisier's principle, the fact that the ocean floor should be pretty warm if there weren't cold water descending upon it, satellite observation and climate/weather models were using planar approximations instead of volumetric measures (meaning 7% more water in air per degree doesn't actually work), and professors who talked about sea ice loss seemed to focus solely on the change in albedo. Ohhh crap. Then Trump got elected and I knew fate was sealed. Not to mention cognitive changes in humans at 500ppm CO² making for worse critical thinking and more stress/anger.
The beetings will continue until morels improve...Argh, you beet me to it. (And I finally saw autocorrect in the act of changing a properly spelled word to a different word. It changed beet to be. Until now I've only seen it after posting, and I was sure I had it right the first time but I never caught the actual moment of change. Bad autocorrect! You should only step in if it's not a real word!)
Milder winters = more ice in some places - like Chicago area.Car tires have improved a lot in recent decades with respect to longevity and grip. I wonder if better tires mean that less salt can be used on roads. That would be a win for local budgets and watersheds. Maybe not, since the amount of salt has to account for the worst tires that are going to used on that street.
This might also be a case for AI on road works. Have cameras on public works vehicles that actually look at how clear the roads are, and dispense salt as needed. Even if they just used road slopes to adjust the amount of salt used, that would save a lot. My own town has lots of steep hills that need it, but lots of flat streets that need a lot less.
Also, winters are getting milder, so less salt ought to be needed.