reddit nixes new subreddit advertising high-end counterfeit US dollars

$225 in bitcoins buys you $500 in rare supernotes made by one "Willy.clock."

Read the whole story

 

[ShakuArai]

orangpelupa[/url]":1zahhcot]They did not afraid to get DMCA take down by using Disney name? O_O

Likely they intentionally used it to get attention.

 

[Vidi Vici Veni]

Andara[/url]"demimbr]

Vidi Vici Veni[/url]"demimbr]This would be true even though the sub-reddit was created by someone for the 'allegedly' express purpose of selling counterfeit currency. You see, until there is an actual exchange, no laws have been broken.

This may or may not be true, actually. There are actually quite a number of crimes in the US that are based on attempts to commit crimes. After all, you don't actually have to pay a prostitute to be arrested for soliciting; you merely have to discuss terms enough to establish that you sincerely intended to hire one.

You are of course, correct. establishing intent beyond a reasonable doubt is enough. Poor words on my part. Sorry.

 

[Gracana]

AdamM[/url]":2mkpajxx]

AndreaFaulds[/url]":2mkpajxx]Now that they're taking down counterfeiting subreddits, how about the subreddits for jailbait, brigading and rape apologia?

Oh right, 'free speech'.

I don't understand the scare quotes around free speech.

Is free speech only free when it is sanitized by governmental standards and doesn't offend you?

"Free speech" is the idea that you should be able to say things / harass people without repercussion. It's kind of a trope on reddit. Slowly but surely reddit is changing, but in its past the site was *very* anti-moderation.

 

[Zyrxil]

Gracana[/url]":9bgbs5h6]

AdamM[/url]":9bgbs5h6]

AndreaFaulds[/url]":9bgbs5h6]Now that they're taking down counterfeiting subreddits, how about the subreddits for jailbait, brigading and rape apologia?

Oh right, 'free speech'.

I don't understand the scare quotes around free speech.

Is free speech only free when it is sanitized by governmental standards and doesn't offend you?

"Free speech" is the idea that you should be able to say things / harass people without repercussion. It's kind of a trope on reddit. Slowly but surely reddit is changing, but in its past the site was *very* anti-moderation.

No, it's something simpler. 'Free speech' is the idea that if you start banning non-illegal things because of an outcry, then there'll be more and more outcries until you need to hire a few thousand staffers just to keep up with everyone with an internet soap box. That's expensive, and you'll never satisfy everyone who wants to get offended anyway.

 

[Jeff S]

Who in their right mind, even if they were trying to profit off of counterfeit currency, would pay 45 cents on the dollar for funny money? That's a terrible risk/reward ratio. Not that I would, but if I was *going* to try to use bad bills, I'd not pay more than maybe 12 cents on the dollar.

Also, if this counterfeiting operation is making such high quality fakes, why don't they just spend the fake money themselves? Obviously, they don't have so much confidence in their own wares, and want to push off the risk onto others, or at least, spread out the pool of people spending the fake money so that it's harder for the SS to trace it back to them.

 

[ursus technica]

Xavin[/url]":15h6o5g6]

high denominations are scrutinized fairly carefully. my guess is that most of the counterfeit USD is ones and fives.

I doubt it. Making a believable counterfeit note is not cheap, and it's not easy to move large quantities of ones and fives. If someone is taking the risk to counterfeit, they aren't going to go for the low margin denominations.

Some twenty years ago it was claimed that about 20% of the low denomination US banknotes circulating internationally were counterfeit. Of course, back then it was the easiest money to forge, having absolutely no modern or semi-modern security features.

 

[infected]

Smeghead[/url]":32yvi57n]

A 2010 paper authored by two economists at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago said that counterfeiting is extremely rare. “In particular, we find that an upper bound on the stock of counterfeit currency in circulation, as a share of genuine, would still be less than 3 in 10,000,” the authors wrote.

Compare that with the mess the pound coin finds itself in back home. When discussing the new version to be introduced in a few years' time, the BBC quoted the Chancellor in stating that over 3% of all such coins in circulation are forgeries:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26632863

I'm fairly sure it's actually much higher than 3%, it is common for [mostly smaller] shop owners to run their coins through a counter that checks the weight/size. so the dodgy ones don't goto the bank and get confiscated, they go back into peoples change from the till. so a large amount are never properly accounted for and are always recirculating.

There was a bit of a hoo haa over fake pounds here a few years ago, since then it has basically become standard that some of the pounds in your pocket will be fake. (i've got 3 on me now and one of them sounds a bit dull when you tap it, so that is probably a dodgy one)

It can be a real pain in the ass when it comes to using a quid in a machine though, they seem to be over sensitive and reject most of them ime.

 

[s73v3r]

AndreaFaulds[/url]":3bc246qx]

orchunter[/url]":3bc246qx]Why is every single comment on this article down voted to hell ? Some actually made sense !!!

People tend to downvote opinions they disagree with.

They also tend to downvote comments that have absolutely nothing with the story, such as some idiot's complaints about Reddit.

Don't like Reddit? That's fine. Don't go there. Problem solved.

 

[s73v3r]

Gracana[/url]":3ndad5az]

AdamM[/url]":3ndad5az]

AndreaFaulds[/url]":3ndad5az]Now that they're taking down counterfeiting subreddits, how about the subreddits for jailbait, brigading and rape apologia?

Oh right, 'free speech'.

I don't understand the scare quotes around free speech.

Is free speech only free when it is sanitized by governmental standards and doesn't offend you?

"Free speech" is the idea that you should be able to say things / harass people without repercussion.

No, it isn't.

It's kind of a trope on reddit. Slowly but surely reddit is changing, but in its past the site was *very* anti-moderation.

No, again, you're wrong. It's no more a trope there than it is among Republicans who believe they're immune from criticism when they say terrible, awful things.

 

[kleinma]

Andara[/url]":2l20z1mp]It's worth noting that the reason they took it down was because it was "full of spam" and not because it was an ad to trade in illegal merchandise.

It's worth noting that is the reason they gave at least...

 

[adsfqwer]

Korpo[/url]":38ugtquv]

AndreaFaulds[/url]":38ugtquv]Now that they're taking down counterfeiting subreddits, how about the subreddits for jailbait, brigading and rape apologia?

Oh right, 'free speech'.

Unless something has changed recently, Reddit isn't an arm of the federal government, and is under no obligation to protect your right to free speech. Unless something different has changed though, they're a private company with no obligation to only provide content you personally approve of.

No one's claiming they are.

Korpo[/url]":38ugtquv]
It's a big world out there--parts of it won't be to your liking. I suggest avoiding those parts.

It's a big world that everyone is allowed to complain about. He's complaing about a jailbait and rape apologia. You're making a strawman and complaining about his complaint.

Way to go, I guess.

 

[adsfqwer]

s73v3r[/url]":1f0qndnz]

AndreaFaulds[/url]":1f0qndnz]

orchunter[/url]":1f0qndnz]Why is every single comment on this article down voted to hell ? Some actually made sense !!!

People tend to downvote opinions they disagree with.

They also tend to downvote comments that have absolutely nothing with the story, such as some idiot's complaints about Reddit.

Don't like Reddit? That's fine. Don't go there. Problem solved.

Actually, no, that doesn't solve anything*. Unless, of course, you believe that other people's shitty behavior just disappears when you close your eyes.

*Not implying that criticizing Reddit on Ars solves anything

 

[cream wobbly]

Korpo[/url]":3d8m1r01]

orchunter[/url]":3d8m1r01]Why is every single comment on this article down voted to hell ? Some actually made sense !!!

Because Ars comment threads are echo chambers most of the time.

And because you don't have to earn the ability to moderate. Just register a couple of dozen sockpuppets and mod away!

 

[cream wobbly]

Hinton[/url]":1nffochr]

fic[/url]":1nffochr]I thought North Korea was the number one producer of super notes. And, pretty much their only export.

They export drugs, nuclear power, rockets, repairing Soviet Union tech, you get the picture.

I got the joke, but because some people might take you seriously, North Korea's exports are helpfully illustrated here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nort ... reemap.jpg

 

[cream wobbly]

s73v3r[/url]":1eekic57]

AndreaFaulds[/url]":1eekic57]

orchunter[/url]":1eekic57]Why is every single comment on this article down voted to hell ? Some actually made sense !!!

People tend to downvote opinions they disagree with.

They also tend to downvote comments that have absolutely nothing with the story, such as some idiot's complaints about Reddit.

Gee, and there's me thinking the story was about Reddit and its delayed action in taking down spam offering counterfeit money.

 

[cream wobbly]

infected[/url]":31ryu6cm]

Smeghead[/url]":31ryu6cm]

A 2010 paper authored by two economists at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago said that counterfeiting is extremely rare. “In particular, we find that an upper bound on the stock of counterfeit currency in circulation, as a share of genuine, would still be less than 3 in 10,000,” the authors wrote.

Compare that with the mess the pound coin finds itself in back home. When discussing the new version to be introduced in a few years' time, the BBC quoted the Chancellor in stating that over 3% of all such coins in circulation are forgeries:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26632863

I'm fairly sure it's actually much higher than 3%, it is common for [mostly smaller] shop owners to run their coins through a counter that checks the weight/size. so the dodgy ones don't goto the bank and get confiscated, they go back into peoples change from the till. so a large amount are never properly accounted for and are always recirculating.

There was a bit of a hoo haa over fake pounds here a few years ago, since then it has basically become standard that some of the pounds in your pocket will be fake. (i've got 3 on me now and one of them sounds a bit dull when you tap it, so that is probably a dodgy one)

It can be a real pain in the ass when it comes to using a quid in a machine though, they seem to be over sensitive and reject most of them ime.

Non pro quo?

 

[failsavedcan]

cream wobbly[/url]":2n31acjc]

Hinton[/url]":2n31acjc]

fic[/url]":2n31acjc]I thought North Korea was the number one producer of super notes. And, pretty much their only export.

They export drugs, nuclear power, rockets, repairing Soviet Union tech, you get the picture.

I got the joke, but because some people might take you seriously, North Korea's exports are helpfully illustrated here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nort ... reemap.jpg

Who the hell buys their cars, TVs, and shows? Where the hell does that stuff go? Is there like a guy out there that just can't wait for the next episode of "The Kims" and just loves his Juchi rustbucket?

 

[The User]

cream wobbly[/url]":305gzvwb]

Hinton[/url]":305gzvwb]

fic[/url]":305gzvwb]I thought North Korea was the number one producer of super notes. And, pretty much their only export.

They export drugs, nuclear power, rockets, repairing Soviet Union tech, you get the picture.

I got the joke, but because some people might take you seriously, North Korea's exports are helpfully illustrated here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nort ... reemap.jpg

I wonder if Steve Ballmer was responsible for buying the chairs that made up 0.33% of exports?

Seriously though I have to wonder what the MTBF is for all of their industrial goods?

 

[copsewood]

Jeff S[/url]":3la1oejq]Who in their right mind, even if they were trying to profit off of counterfeit currency, would pay 45 cents on the dollar for funny money? That's a terrible risk/reward ratio. Not that I would, but if I was *going* to try to use bad bills, I'd not pay more than maybe 12 cents on the dollar.

Also, if this counterfeiting operation is making such high quality fakes, why don't they just spend the fake money themselves? Obviously, they don't have so much confidence in their own wares, and want to push off the risk onto others, or at least, spread out the pool of people spending the fake money so that it's harder for the SS to trace it back to them.

One operator in this game can only spend so many fakes into circulation without attracting dangerous (to them) attention. Not worth the investment in plates, paper, inks and production unless very many are produced. So this has to be a pyramid operation. 45 cents/dollar sounds like retail margins - probably the bottom layer where small timers operate. If you wanted to buy at 12 cents/dollar, I guess you'd have to purchase wholesale and have a layer or 2 under you in the pyramid to launder profitably. So perhaps Mr Mouse is obtaining at 12 cents/dollar either from the printer directly, or possibly 24 cents in the dollar from a larger scale wholesaler who deals at 12 cents/dollar with the printer. As the pyramid is more likely to be exposed if too much activity becomes observable around any node due to greed and carelessness, it seems probable to me that Mr Mouse is 2 levels down in the distribution hierarchy.

Probably works much the same as heroin or cocaine distribution networks.

 

[pseudoalias]

it looks like the picture has been edited out of the article, but was I the only one disappointed in the attempt to contact Mr. Mouse? The automated reply clearly said "anyone who sends links... will be blocked", and the first message sent contained three links. I wonder why he never responded?

 

[Deleted member 274645]

Andara[/url]":22coa5xh]

Vidi Vici Veni[/url]":22coa5xh]This would be true even though the sub-reddit was created by someone for the 'allegedly' express purpose of selling counterfeit currency. You see, until there is an actual exchange, no laws have been broken.

This may or may not be true, actually. There are actually quite a number of crimes in the US that are based on attempts to commit crimes. After all, you don't actually have to pay a prostitute to be arrested for soliciting; you merely have to discuss terms enough to establish that you sincerely intended to hire one.

I may be mistaken, but I believe the crime is the solicitation, not the sexual activity. Once you have agreed to terms you have broken the law.

In any case, talking about illegal activity is not enough to establish that a crime has occurred; though indeed there are cases where the discussion itself is illegal. That is: unless there is an actual law saying "making a conspiracy to rob a bank is illegal", they couldnt get you just for talking about it. The speech is not made illegal simply because it is about illegal things.