Pacifying US, Taiwan weaponizes chip access, targeting South Africa first

South Africa has 60 days to meet with Taiwan to avoid export curbs.

See full article...

 

[nancy-drew]

On Wednesday, [occupied mainland] China's foreign ministry spokesperson, Guo Jiakun, criticized [Republic of China]'s export curbs as "a deliberate move to destabilize global chip industrial and supply chains and counter the prevailing international commitment to the one-China principle by weaponizing chips."

Communist-occupied mainland China complains a lot. Glad the Republic of China has the nerve to put them in their place!

 

[Ravant]

I'm glad Taiwan is standing up to West Taiwan like this. Maybe someday, we can have One Taiwan again.

 

[ReadandShare]

Wish all countries would stop trying to pacify (enable) the world 's most egoistic manchild! He'll say you and he have great relationship - then completely shrug you off the next time shrugging you off benefits him. Then repeat again. Just ask Canada, Mexico, India, Korea, Japan, or anybody else really!

 

[Bzored]

Edit: Misread.

 

[thrillgore]

I wonder if any other enterprising company is going to call ASML about some fabless equipment.

 

[mmmmwmmmm]

Given the beauty of its multi-cultural society; the South African government has some pretty dodgy morals, which is part of the history of the anti-apartheid movement (which turned into the governing ANC party) getting support from the USSR. This leads to bizarre outcomes like a very cozy relationship with present-day Russia, and communist China. It's a running joke to call one another "comrade" when making fun of corrupt government officials.

 

[thrillgore]

Retracted.

 

[sailaway777]

This article's angle is weird. Taiwan is trying to stand up for it's own rights against Chinese bullying. Why is the angle here the US? The headline doesn't even mention the Chinese context!

 

[kaibelf]

I’m sure apartheid Grok will shoehorn in propaganda about this when someone asks for sports scores.

 

[Glorified Desktop Support]

Taiwan now controls the leading edge on chip manufacturing and is going to use that advantage in fear of Chinese aggression. Not sure if they originally intended for it or not, but if China now invaded Taiwan, it would set back the entire world 5-10 years in chip manufacturing (between working tech and supply chains) and make a lot of enemies. It's what they have and is fighting for their existence. Especially seeing what China has done to Hong Kong and showing that the CCP can't be trusted in any sort of joint venture.

 

[Asbestos Muffins]

Taiwan now controls the leading edge on chip manufacturing and is going to use that advantage in fear of Chinese aggression. Not sure if they originally intended for it or not, but if China now invaded Taiwan, it would set back the entire world 5-10 years in chip manufacturing (between working tech and supply chains) and make a lot of enemies. It's what they have and is fighting for their existence. Especially seeing what China has done to Hong Kong and showing that the CCP can't be trusted in any sort of joint venture.

ya but also TSMC is also selling chips as fast as possible to China via Nvidia. the two are reliant on endless capex spending coming out of china to sustain their businesses

 

[mmmmwmmmm]

And I've never met a nice South African, and that's not bloody surprising mate
Because we're a bunch of arrogant bastards who hate black people

And i've never met a nice Israeli either

The majority of South Africans are black people, so I'm confused by your quote.

If you mean to say black folks aren't South African, kindly get bent. If you mean to say all white people in SA are racist, kindly get bent too. If you mean all expats from SA are racist, kindly get bent. If you have a different point, please do share.

 

[thrillgore]

The majority of South Africans are black people, so I'm confused by your quote.

If you mean to say black folks aren't South African, kindly get bent. If you mean to say all white people in SA are racist, kindly get bent too. If you mean all expats from SA are racist, kindly get bent. If you have a different point, please do share.

This video was made during the Apartheid time. Clearly I didn't read the post, and I retract that original post.

 

[motytrah]

I doubt China is concerned, they take the long view, and they're cautious. Taiwan will be a part of China just as soon as China is certain that it can take it, hold it, and weather the inevitable international shitstorm. That day is coming sooner than you think. It may even already be here.

The US has made it clear if China tries to take Taiwan that we'll obliterate TMSC's FABs. It's mutual economic destruction in the near term.

China takes over Taiwan when they solve their semiconductor manufacturing problems and there's no reason for anyone to care about TMSC.

 

[thrillgore]

The US has made it clear if China tries to take Taiwan that we'll obliterate TMSC's FABs. It's mutual economic destruction in the near term.

China takes over Taiwan when they solve their semiconductor manufacturing problems and there's no reason for anyone to care about TMSC.

We don't even need to obliterate the fabs, ASML has installed self-destructs in them, and Taiwan has them rigged to blow.

 

[Marc GP]

I doubt China is concerned, they take the long view, and they're cautious. Taiwan will be a part of China just as soon as China is certain that it can take it, hold it, and weather the inevitable international shitstorm. That day is coming sooner than you think. It may even already be here.

Ukraine has shown that a decided, but much smaller country, can stop a massive juggernaut.

I wouldn't take as granted that the Chinese Communist Party can unilaterally enslave the free people of Taiwan.

 

[Zeppos]

I wonder if any other enterprising company is going to call ASML about some fabless equipment.

They will only answer if you buy enough Heineken.

...

As a Belgian, I'd prefer chips in a 350nm process above buying Heineken though.

 

[Don Reba]

Taiwan weaponizing its chip manufacturing is likely to backfire and end up creating new export markets for Chinese chips.

 

[Big Wang]

Background on why today South Africa is strongly aligned with China:

Taiwan was one of the few western aligned governments to maintain diplomatic relations with Apartheid South African government. In fact it was a strong supporter both diplomatically and economically, investing heavily in the country in business during the apartheid era. Taiwanese businessmen were considered honorary whites during the period.

Meanwhile, China provided financial and logistical support to the ANC in their armed struggle against white rule.

It's no surprise the current South African government doesn't really like Taiwan much given historical background.

 

[Cat_Herder]

On Wednesday, China's foreign ministry spokesperson, Guo Jiakun, criticized Taiwan's export curbs as "a deliberate move to destabilize global chip industrial and supply chains and counter the prevailing international commitment to the one-China principle by weaponizing chips."

This coming from the same people who have weaponized the sale of rare-earth minerals. Hypocrites.

 

[sylt]

Background on why today South Africa is strongly aligned with China:

Taiwan was one of the few western aligned governments to maintain diplomatic relations with Apartheid South African government. In fact it was a strong supporter both diplomatically and economically, investing heavily in the country in business during the apartheid era. Taiwanese businessmen were considered honorary whites during the period.

Meanwhile, China provided financial and logistical support to the ANC in their armed struggle against white rule.

It's no surprise the current South African government doesn't really like Taiwan much given historical background.

I think it has much more to do with all the money that China is pumping into the country (and private pockets) today

 

[pagh]

This kind of hardball economic diplomacy is probably harmful to most of the nations involved, including Taiwan itself, and is definitely a net harm to the world economy. It's also a rational response to the terrible diplomatic and economic conditions in the world right now. It's classic game theory stuff, with multiple equilibria, and we're headed for one of the bad ones.

 

[TheNinja]

Yes, keep weaponizing leading economic positions, it's not like China already realized the idiocy and is moving fast into producing their own chips that will eventually match western tech and bring a whole lot of countries into China's lap. It's gonna work folks! /s

 

[Hoptimist]

I doubt China is concerned, they take the long view, and they're cautious. Taiwan will be a part of China just as soon as China is certain that it can take it, hold it, and weather the inevitable international shitstorm. That day is coming sooner than you think. It may even already be here.

If any country had the capability and the need for assymmetric weapons - meaning nucs, it is Taiwan. They certainly have the capacity to do so, but would be wise enough not to advertise it. If they doubt US security guarantees, and I would if I were them, I wouldn't be surprised if they already have some. US security guarantees were in part to dissuade them from going that way.

 

[motytrah]

Taiwan weaponizing its chip manufacturing is likely to backfire and end up creating new export markets for Chinese chips.

China doesn't have the ability to make the kind of chips Taiwan makes. At least not at scale and at a price. They have been trying to catch up to them for over a decade, throwing billions upon billions of dollars at the problem. Hiring former TMSC people. Hiring former Korean semi-conductor folks.

They have the lion share of wafer production and have cornered the market on low end semiconductors. But they just have never been able to crack high end semiconductors.

 

[Tanterei]

Taiwan now controls the leading edge on chip manufacturing and is going to use that advantage in fear of Chinese aggression. Not sure if they originally intended for it or not, but if China now invaded Taiwan, it would set back the entire world 5-10 years in chip manufacturing (between working tech and supply chains) and make a lot of enemies. It's what they have and is fighting for their existence. Especially seeing what China has done to Hong Kong and showing that the CCP can't be trusted in any sort of joint venture.

The optimist in me thinks that setback would be more like 1-2 years. The crown jewels of the pipeline lies with Dutch ASML. Assuming a major disruption with a prospect of fab destruction I'd guess some governments would fast-track construction of replacements.

For now though, I'll hold on to my backup CPUs and GPUS, in case this is the salvo in a global chip battle.

 

[arcite]

Given the beauty of its multi-cultural society; the South African government has some pretty dodgy morals, which is part of the history of the anti-apartheid movement (which turned into the governing ANC party) getting support from the USSR. This leads to bizarre outcomes like a very cozy relationship with present-day Russia, and communist China. It's a running joke to call one another "comrade" when making fun of corrupt government officials.

It only looks strange...until you realize the US and UK didn't lift a finger to end apartheid, and were actively complicit in its continuation for decades. BRICS is now larger than the G8 economies, so they now have leverage and it's growing every day. Africa is the only place on the planet where there is a growing middle class any more...think about that for a second. ...everywhere else, the middle class is shrinking.

 

[Don Reba]

China doesn't have the ability to make the kind of chips Taiwan makes. At least not at scale and at a price. They have been trying to catch up to them for over a decade, throwing billions upon billions of dollars at the problem. Hiring former TMSC people. Hiring former Korean semi-conductor folks.

They have the lion share of wafer production and have cornered the market on low end semiconductors. But they just have never been able to crack high end semiconductors.

All true. They have been narrowing the gap, however, and increased investment from countries like South Africa could help them catch up faster.

 

[kaibelf]

The US has made it clear if China tries to take Taiwan that we'll obliterate TMSC's FABs. It's mutual economic destruction in the near term.

China takes over Taiwan when they solve their semiconductor manufacturing problems and there's no reason for anyone to care about TMSC.

This is the correct take, and China is already making strong gains in that hedge motion. In the long term though, it's a culturing thing as much as an economic one, so once that piece is off the board the US has nothing to leverage. Sadly, if we onshore enough of these fabs, the US will probably also abandon Taiwan anyway.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

As far as US foreign policy goes, South Africa has the double-whammy of bullshit right-wing claims of "White Genocide" and having launched an ongoing case against Israel for committing genocide in the Gazan Strip at the ICJ. I'm sure Trump is pleased as a narcissist could be that Taiwan is taking action against them.

 

[Rene Gollent]

The optimist in me thinks that setback would be more like 1-2 years. The crown jewels of the pipeline lies with Dutch ASML. Assuming a major disruption with a prospect of fab destruction I'd guess some governments would fast-track construction of replacements.

For now though, I'll hold on to my backup CPUs and GPUS, in case this is the salvo in a global chip battle.

If it was that easy then Intel would long since have a working 3nm node, they also use ASML's equipment.

 

[Cloudgazer]

If any country had the capability and the need for assymmetric weapons - meaning nucs, it is Taiwan. They certainly have the capacity to do so, but would be wise enough not to advertise it. If they doubt US security guarantees, and I would if I were them, I wouldn't be surprised if they already have some. US security guarantees were in part to dissuade them from going that way.

There's no point having nukes if you're not going to tell people you have nukes.

 

[thrillgore]

If any country had the capability and the need for assymmetric weapons - meaning nucs, it is Taiwan. They certainly have the capacity to do so, but would be wise enough not to advertise it. If they doubt US security guarantees, and I would if I were them, I wouldn't be surprised if they already have some. US security guarantees were in part to dissuade them from going that way.

The entire point of nukes is deterrence. Literally having them but not testing or announcing them is just a waste of time.

 

[ReadandShare]

China doesn't have the ability to make the kind of chips Taiwan makes. At least not at scale and at a price. They have been trying to catch up to them for over a decade, throwing billions upon billions of dollars at the problem. Hiring former TMSC people. Hiring former Korean semi-conductor folks.

They have the lion share of wafer production and have cornered the market on low end semiconductors. But they just have never been able to crack high end semiconductors.

It's not just China - it's America too! There is no monopoly in brain power. Taiwan is pretty amazing, but expecting it to keep consistently ahead of the world's top two economies with their vast resources is expecting too much.

 

[JBanister]

If any country had the capability and the need for assymmetric weapons - meaning nucs, it is Taiwan. They certainly have the capacity to do so, but would be wise enough not to advertise it. If they doubt US security guarantees, and I would if I were them, I wouldn't be surprised if they already have some. US security guarantees were in part to dissuade them from going that way.

If the US sold Taiwan a few nuclear subs, I think that would end the possibility of aggressive Chinese takeover of Taiwan. And, I'm sure Taiwan would be happy to pay full price for them. But, if the Chinese succeeded with political takeover of Taiwan, then they'd have those subs.