Nintendo threatens to brick Switch consoles for hacking, piracy

Updated EULA language includes new threat to "render the... device permanently unusable."

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[HeadPlug]

Challenge accepted.

Here's the thing, IF I am willing (and able) to purchase a Switch 2 launch console: it is mine, I will do with it as I damn well please. I could not give fewer shits about flimsy terms, conditions, EULAs, or otherwise. All this warning does is indicate to me that Nintendo suspects many exploitable holes. I'm sure I'd feel different if I were interested in any of Nintendo's online services, but I'm strictly here for the single player games. Day one, console setup. Day two, console hacked and I can turn off the wifi on it forever with nothing of value lost.

One small problem: many physical cartridges won't contain any game data. So unless you don't want to play games launched after the Switch 2's release, you'll have to keep your Switch 2 "online capable" to get(and keep?) new games going forward.

 

[brektyme]

You will own nothing and be thankful for it.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

The Deck isn't really a competitor to the Switch or Switch 2. It's only sold a couple of million units and I would posit the amount of people debating between a Switch and Steam deck is exceeding close to 0. There are 2 types of people purchasing the Steam deck. Hardcore PC gamers who wouldn't be purchasing the Switch no matter what and people who already have a Switch and just think that the Steam Deck is cool. Almost no one is seriously wringing their hands wondering which one to choose.

I have an OG Switch. Pretty much only ended up playing Civ and Slay the Spire on it. Both games ran like dogshit. I played almost all the way through Odyssey, but meh. Hated BotW (I know, I know, crucify me).

Since getting my Deck, I haven't touched my Switch. I'm actually not even completely sure where it is.

Not that your argument makes any sense anyway. You're arguing that they don't compete because the only people buying the Deck either choose to have both or choose only the Deck. Yeah, those are literally the only two options given your starting criteria of "buys a Steam Deck."

 

[sleepyox]

The entire reason I buy tech is to play with disassembling, reverse engineering, amd repurposing the components for different fun purposes with other brand's components because it's mine and I OWN it.

I hope they fund right to fix organizations more. More funding for EFF and ifixit? Who else can we support for consumer rights? Tax DRM companies and fund consumer protection watchdogs.

 

[s0nicfreak]

One small problem: many physical cartridges won't contain any game data. So unless you don't want to play games launched after the Switch 2's release, you'll have to keep your Switch 2 "online capable" to get(and keep?) new games going forward.

Well no, it's unless you don't want to pay for games launched after the Switch 2's release.

 

[Deleted member 388703]

I'm reminded of a scammer in Australia that Louis Rossman just called out, who would sell software, then make up "you were running something on your PC I don't like" claims to justify bricking the software, while keeping victims' money.
That allegedly potentially violated several of Australia's consumer protection laws.

 

[akw0088]

So, maybe somewhere between one week to one month before it’s rooted?

 

[Powderhorn]

Is this even legal? It sounds a lot like destruction of private property, and you can't always give someone permission to commit a crime against you.

I mean, you can, but that's generally BDSM, not video game consoles.

 

[terrydactyl]

In my dream world, Nintendo bricks some devices and a grand jury somewhere brings a criminal indictment for destruction of private property. Well, a guy can dream.

 

[Resolute]

You have to buy a console to hack it/pirate on it. And if you have a console but you're not buying any games, you don't ever have to connect to Nintendo's servers. So people who don't buy anything (and just emulate) are unaffected by this. It is hurting actual customers with the idea that it's to hurt pirates. Cutting off their nose to spite their face type of thing (although maybe not if people with bricked consoles buy another console and continue buying games. Time will tell.).

Again, nearly every actual customer just buys, plays, and enjoys. So actual customers simply won't care about this because it won't impact them in any way. And if your implication that pirates will also be unaffected is similar, then this entire thing becomes a nothingburger.

 

[Deleted member 192806]

In my dream world, Nintendo bricks some devices and a grand jury somewhere brings a criminal indictment for destruction of private property. Well, a guy can dream.

Only if Nintendo started putting C4 into their consoles.

 

[peachpuff]

That won't work in most places as they usually scan the serial number at time of purchase. Specifically to counter return fraud.

This isn't my first rodeo, changing the shell isn't hard nor is peeling the serial sticker.

 

[Fred Duck]

I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it further.

Nintendo bricks your deal

 

[Fatesrider]

Wow, I have to admit the odds of my getting anything Nintendo have always been long. But like the most distant objects in the visible universe, there was always a presence to see what's going on there.

This just puts them beyond my observable universe. Given how corporations that go down this path rarely walk it back, I will be ignoring all stories Nintendo-related from now on.

 

[MrTom]

I only bought the Nintendo 64, GameCube and the Wii in the past because I knew I could hack them beforehand. Where are they now, in boxes not being used. If I knew I couldn't hack the latest Nintendo console, I won't ever purchase it. Nintendo's lost revenue.

 

[shadedmagus]

This is why I prefer to emulate images of games on my PC, rather than mod/hack the console itself. Nothing Nintendo can do when they have no mechanism to detect my actions.

Besides, 60fps mods do better with more resources than the original platform has anyway.

 

[Powderhorn]

"...now that you've gone full assholes..."

Now? Nintendo went full assholes a long time ago.

Spaceballs: The Console

 

[AmorImpermissus]

To modders who say they'll just never connect to Nintendo servers... you guys realize the S2 is phasing out physical media that stores game install data, right? Nintendo has basically said they want all games to be 100% downloaded and the physical media is only going to be used to download the game an unlock it for play. I know they haven't given a firm figure for how many games will use this mechanism, but I am guessing they'll want it to start becoming the norm.

 

[BobbyBobberson]

You will own nothing and be thankful for it.

I don't think applies here. Nintendo has no obligation to allow it's servers to be infiltrated by hacked Switch 2s.

 

[SFC]

They can put that in the EULA - good luck in court. Intentionally remotely destroying a product someone has paid for is one way to get sued into oblivion by class action.

 

[GenericAnimeBoy]

What's next? Nintendo DRMs the joycon sticks (to "protect" users from counterfeit hardware, of course ) and bricks your switch if you replace them?

 

[Kenjitsuka]

a reasonable belief such a violation... will occur

You will own nothing, and you will thank us for it!
Scum taking it to the next level, no surprise there.

 

[Edified]

It's not just bricking "hacked" consoles, it's that they want the right to brick any console for any reason and even if it's a mistake the buyer has no recourse.

If you take it to arbitration the arbiter will tell you that you agreed that Nintendo can shutdown your account and disable your console at its sole discretion and rule against you.

 

[Lazymonk]

This is our distopian future coming into being.
In a few years the "smart" refrigirator, will stop working if it detects illegal substanaces inside it.

 

[Spiders from Mars]

Remember when you bought an item and you actually owned it?

At this point I'm shocked clothing manufacturers don't require you to bring your suits and dresses to a Manufacturer Authorized Tailor for hemming.

You bought a steak knife.
You used it on chicken.
Please report to the steak knife training centre for your mandatory retraining experience.

 

[kosgian]

Ha! Can they brick switch emulators ?

 

[jtwrenn]

Makes me even happier with my Steamdeck. Consoles are just too locked down. I get it that piracy is a huge issue for them, but the harder they squeeze the more I think they embolden the piracy movement. You are making the issue more morally grey by being so crazy about it.

I think the services disconnect was the right way to go. That made sense and felt fair and not dangerous. The idea that you could reach into my home and brick my console is just too creepy for me. I should be able to screw around with my system to some degree. This feels like renting. No thank you.

 

[s0nicfreak]

Again, nearly every actual customer just buys, plays, and enjoys. So actual customers simply won't care about this because it won't impact them in any way. And if your implication that pirates will also be unaffected is similar, then this entire thing becomes a nothingburger.

And again, you can't do the things that will get a console bricked without being an actual customer. Everyone that buys something from Nintendo is an actual customer.

I think what you mean is that it won't impact most customers. And yeah, that's fair - unless there are false positives, or people buy used, or etc. etc. We've seen this happen with Nintendo's online bans affecting people who don't hack nor pirate. Actual customers. It's not most people, but it's always people who are trying to just buy, play, and enjoy.

 

[Heart of Dawn]

Between the increased costs of the console, games, and accessories, the fact that the game cards only contain a license key and not the game itself, and now this- Nintendo have taken a blue shell right to their own face.

 

[Nop666]

It'd be interesting to see how that survives contact with UK/EU consumer rights law.

A proverbial unstoppable force vs an immovable object...

I suspect that consumer rights would win. Nintendo might then be within their rights to disable any Nintendo accounts under their terms of service, but remotely modifying or disabling a physical device would probably not fly in the courts.

The end result would probably be that the language would be left in "for applicable territories", and Nintendo would hope nobody notices it doesn't apply in some. That seems to be how EULAs generally work anyway...

I don't think this'd fly under Australian consumer law either. If they bricked your console, you'd likely be able to return it to the place of purchase for refund or replacement.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

The weirdest shit brings the trolls out of lurking.

 

[SittingDuc]

TFA Wrote:

It's currently unclear what technical means Nintendo would use to enforce this new ultimate punishment for Switch hackers or if users might be able to restore functionality to any remotely bricked consoles.

Well, the majority of Wii consoles had issues with the NAND access software, causing official Nintendo updates to brick a percentage of consoles and of course the homebrew community found ways to unbrick many systems - the "evil" hackers undoing misdeeds by the "poor defenseless" megacorp.

So maybe they plan to roll out a similar NAND update strategy for the Switch 2? Switch 1 is already done, so not sure what options they have there.

Sounds like a hard pass on a Switch 2 or even Switch 1 for myself at this point; although, to be fair I was already avoiding the Switch 1 after Nintendo's 800lb gorilla behaviour way back at launch on the topic of online accounts being hard to migrate off failed hardware.

 

[WhatDoesTheFoxSay]

You know what I like? Raspberry Pi's, initialized via USB and never connected to the internet. And VPNs. And Bittorrent. And ROMs. And creative romhacks. And decompiled retro games running natively on your PC. And supporting indie game devs on itch.io.

You now what else I like? Dreamcasts, PS2s, Gamecubes, GBAs, and DSs, that never need to go online. And flash carts.

 

[Bernardo Verda]

Because, to be completely frank, the people who this is going to effect don't buy their products in the first place. It's always the pirates who whine about how Nintendo treats their "loyal customers". Their actual customers, meanwhile, simply buy, play, and enjoy those games.

That being said, this change combined with the "lol, no class action lawsuits" change are draconian. I'm curious which US law you believe this violates. Because it would be interesting to see what might make Nitntendo walk this back.

You're missing something very important here:

This doesn't affect people who mod or pirate -- this affects anyone that Nintendo suspects of -- in other words, that Nintendo's algorithms identify as -- modding Switches or playing a "pirated" game.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Bernardo Verda]

Is this even legal? It sounds a lot like destruction of private property, and you can't always give someone permission to commit a crime against you.

As someone noted up-thread:
"You will own nothing and you will like it. Or else."

You don't own your Switch; you have a license to use it, until Nintendo decides they don't approve of how you're using it -- or even how they suspect you're using it.

 

[HeckOuttaDodge]

Come on. I agree that these provisions in the EULA are draconian and anti-consumer. I do not like it at all. However, claiming that Nintendo hasn't published a decent game in decades..... is just wrong. The main reason I (and I think most people) purchase Nintendo consoles is for Nintendo games. They are very frequently delightful. Honestly, if I could only pick a single system it would probably be the Switch, because of the games. Pokemon, Xenoblade, Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Animal Crossing (and more) are all exclusive to Nintendo consoles. Some of my fondest memories are connected to those franchises. Call them out on their bullshit, but let's be real, they have the games.

Most of those games suck.

 

[disarmyouwitha]

I've got a launch one I was already thinking I might finally be willing to mod once I have my Switch 2 on hand--having to open the thing up and poke around at the guts has been enough to make me not want to bother but less risky given the incompatibility list for Switch 1 games on Switch 2 is all games I don't care about.

If you do have a launch switch you don't need to open it up, just buy a $7 RCM jig off amazon (it will make it so you don't have to DIY your own) and you basically slide those into your joycon rails to boot into a firmware loader mode.

You'll need a few programs off github and you are good2go

 

[Spalls]

This is the US EULA, to be clear. Not sure if the language is different for Europe/UK, but it very well could be (if necessary)

It doesn't seem to be. The UK EULA is available here, and at least according to the brief perusal I gave it, it does not have the same language as the US version. Whether this is because they recognize it's probably illegal in the UK, or if they just haven't updated the UK EULA is uncertain.

Oddly enough, when trying to get to the Canadian EULA, it redirected me to the US license. Whether this was an error on their part or if Nintendo intends for the US license to apply to both countries is uncertain.

Perhaps others can provide link to the EULA from other countries?

 

[Spalls]

You're missing something very important here:

This doesn't affect people who mod or pirate -- this affects anyone that Nintendo suspects of -- in other words, that Nintendo's algorithms identify as -- modding Switches or playing a "pirated" game.

What could possibly go wrong?

Right now it only affects people who mod or pirate. But...

We may change the terms of this Agreement from time to time.

Furthermore:

Nintendo may terminate this Agreement or suspend your access to any or all Nintendo Account Services, in our sole discretion and without prior notice to you, if you violate this Agreement, if we have a reasonable belief such a violation has or will occur, or as we otherwise determine to be reasonably necessary for legal, technical or commercial reasons.

(both from Section 13 of the EULA; emphasis is mine)

Thus, "We need more people to buy Switch 3 but everyone is still playing on their original devices!" gives them valid commercial reasons to brick your devices. Its unlikely it would happen, but that EULA may give them legal cover.

Section 14 also has you agree to indemnify Nintendo from any damages caused by the use of Nintendo services, too. So you can't even sue them for breaking your machine.