New EVs stagnate, used EV prices have dropped up to 38% this summer
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I got a really great deal on an i3 from a family friend last year, and now that my commute is mostly urban, it's an absolute delight. It's got some scoot, it's nimble, it has a nice interior, and it's upright and roomy. Truly the EV deal to beat these days, and wildly ahead of its time.
The abrupt and unplanned changes to the federal tax credit really fucked over a lot of manufacturers and buyers. That was bad policy and while I don't necessarily disagree with prioritizing American industry and jobs, it was rushed and thoughtless the way we did it.
The abrupt and unplanned changes to the federal tax credit really fucked over a lot of manufacturers and buyers. That was bad policy and while I don't necessarily disagree with prioritizing American industry and jobs, it was rushed and thoughtless the way we did it.
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The entire used car market seems prime for steady price drops given the abrupt increases over the past few years.
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That's still pretty high. 10% less than the average of all new vehicles ($48k).
Another survey pegged the average price of a used Model 3 at $37k in June. Which again is nuts given that a new one starts at $38k before incentives (and unlike e.g. a Chevrolet Bolt EV, you can actually get one at that price).
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Axios warned of EVs "piling up on dealer lots," for instance.
Axios is full of shit. They claim the GMC Hummer EV has over a hundred days of inventory sitting on dealer lots. Complete fabrication.
Axios is full of shit. They claim the GMC Hummer EV has over a hundred days of inventory sitting on dealer lots. Complete fabrication.
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Would part of the reason be that EVs are still improving rapidly? Battery/pack design, motors, general build quality for the startups, cars designed from the ground up as EVs rather than converted ICE designs, etc. Whereas ICE vehicles tend to be extremely incremental these days - already mined out most of the possible advances.
Seems like a couple years still adds quite a bit of improvement, making the newer cars more valuable.
Just spitballing here, but seems reasonable as a factor.
Seems like a couple years still adds quite a bit of improvement, making the newer cars more valuable.
Just spitballing here, but seems reasonable as a factor.
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I wish they pushed hybrids more. A hybrid is a great way to introduce EVs to untrusting public, and also lessen the strain on the grid. Really, "I'm buying a gas car" should MEAN it's a hybrid. But this argument feels like my suggestion that nuclear power is the best way to a green future, aka not accepted by many.
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Remember that there's a tax subsidy for used EVs now, so these vehicle prices are reflecting that.
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I'm getting a lot of requests from my local Subaru dealership to sell my 2019 Forester. So they think that there's money to be made in either selling off, or by tying me to more finance.
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Hybrids have been around forever. How much longer do we need to give people to realize EVs work?
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Dealers always want to buy your few years old car. Then they get to sell you a brand new one. This is nothing new.
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Whether that's true or not is irrelevant. The Hummer EV is such a niche product, its market has nothing to do with the general automotive market.
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Absolutely. A lot of the early stuff - e-golfs and Ford Focuses and EV Souls - with half the range of current EVs are some of the cheapest cars available. It's a big blind spot, because people are hesitant about battery costs and availability and charging. It's a shame they can't be upgraded. They're perfect in cities, but most city dwellers can afford better or only need a car for long trips anyway. At least in America.
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It is just standard FUD from people who don't want EVs to succeed. Right now the EV market is heavily skewed towards the luxury market that has always had large drop-offs in resale value. When the EV Chevy Equinox (or equivalent entry level EV with reasonable range) starts to backup on the lot, that is when it should be reported.
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I personally agree that all ICE vehicles should be mandated to be hybrid or PHEV, with lower-priced vehicles required to be either mild hybrid or HEV and higher priced vehicles required to be PHEV or EV across the board.
Nuclear is not accepted because it's a bad investment and cannot deliver capacity on-budget or on-time. It's the best way to a green future as long as we ignore history, cost, energy markets, economic feasibility, and the track record of an industry that behaves irresponsibly and incompetently.
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The legislative/regulatory uncertainty at the beginning of the year re federal incentives couldn’t have helped. And now that used EV vehicles are eligible for tax incentives regardless of component origin - I suspect some vehicles are gonna move quicker than others.
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I was going to get a Leaf to drive into the city as necessary and for winter duties, but I still see 2015s going for $10-12k which seems pretty overpriced to me given how dated the first gen Leaf is. I also considered the Bolt, but the cheapest I could find was a 2017 for $16k, most were close to $20k. It’s not outrageously expensive, but certainly not fire sale territory and slightly more expensive than a typical depreciation curve (assuming 5Y/40%)
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I hate to be Debby Downer, but an alternate subheading could be "EV leases to get even more expensive as residual values plunge"
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Its a bad argument for the same reasons. Too little too late, and too expensive for the benefits,
Hybrids are good for people who cant charge daily. but the extra upfront premium will takes years to pay off in gas savings over non hybrid of same car.
PHEVs are still need a place to charge daily or they are not worth it. and most PHEVs are just as expensive as comparable BEV.
I would have loved to have seen more PHEV options especially with trucks. but switching to PHEV outside of niche markets wont slow global CO2 as much as pure BEV
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Not to mention if you’re a single vehicle household - a plug-in hybrid with ~40mile range takes care of virtually all of your routine needs for electric commute without the battery mass & also gives you options re going on a road trip without having to plan around chargers.
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Those are also the places where next to nobody lives, and none of the few that do buy EVs. Eventually, we will get there, and charging will be ubiquitous. The reason nobody brought it up is that everyone knows it's an issue, and most of us understand that it's mostly an issue outside core auto markets.
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Yeah jalopnik had a similiar article.
a $7oo a month car payment is not cheap and never should be called such.
a $7oo a month car payment is not cheap and never should be called such.
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Their ideal outcome is that you buy a new Subaru to replace it and trade in the "old" 2019 Forester. That would be win win for them, since they would make a good margin on the new car sale, lowball you on the trade-in and then easily resell the car for a large markup.
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The drop in used car prices, combined with tesla's repeated price cuts to new cars have been brutal for existing tesla owners.
It's overall a good thing because I want everyone to get into an electric car, but it definitely hurts to loose $20k in value after only 6 months of ownership on a five year old car.
It's overall a good thing because I want everyone to get into an electric car, but it definitely hurts to loose $20k in value after only 6 months of ownership on a five year old car.
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I love my Maverick (even with the 80-gajillion recalls), but MAN do I wish it had a bigger battery for an electric only mode. I would have paid another 5K, easy.
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I ended up taking the opportunity just recently to pick up a used Model S as a year round commuter/practical car. Prices have definitely come down substantially and it ended up being a pretty great deal.
On the flip side I had a rental Kia Nero EV forced on me while traveling last week and found it was an absolute nightmare to charge in the north east. Lots of 6kw L2 chargers around but none that I could use overnight and very few L3 chargers, most of which were a single station tucked behind car dealers. It didn't help that I had lots of miles to do and the Kia didn't charge very fast even at the L3 units. The whole experience made me much more appreciative of the supercharger network.
On the flip side I had a rental Kia Nero EV forced on me while traveling last week and found it was an absolute nightmare to charge in the north east. Lots of 6kw L2 chargers around but none that I could use overnight and very few L3 chargers, most of which were a single station tucked behind car dealers. It didn't help that I had lots of miles to do and the Kia didn't charge very fast even at the L3 units. The whole experience made me much more appreciative of the supercharger network.
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I live in the midwest and own an EV. It is absolutely doable. It's not even hard.
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PHEVs have more range and capability than a comparable BEV. Find me a $40k EV with comparable space, range, and rough road ability as a Rav4 Prime. I'll wait.
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After the tax credit, a non modified lowest level you can buy Tesla 3 is just slightly more than a base honda civic (so far as I can determine based on stated prices). And the car I want to get, a PHEV (Toyota Prime) is complete unobtanium, and people are reporting issues with it. Once these prices dip just a tad more I could see major EV adoption, at least for people who do not regularly travel more than 150 miles, and that have an ICE for longer trips
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I dunno. Given that the Hummer EV has sold about 50 units in the US so far this year, 100 days inventory is like 25 cars. That seems pretty plausible to me.
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Those are reasonable arguments...
..but c'mon! 2 incidents attributable to irresponsibility and incompetence in 70 years is not a "track record" (not counting Fukajima, cos that was from
Edit: stupid bad on-the-spot memory, I should have double checked my facts before posting.
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Fuzzypiggy
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Here in the UK we have serious issues with distribution of charging points, they're centred around the big cities and bigger highway routes, further north and into Scotland not so much. Prices in the UK start at around £40k ( $50k USD ), equivalent ICE is about £18k! A top Tesla model is around £90k, that's just mental price! No wonder EVs are still the play things of the wealthy right now.
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Toyota has been. The rav4 hybrid has months long wait list. Not even sure why they still sell the non adventure grade rav4. If toyota can get the prime down in price it is the best of both worlds.
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I'm in the market for an EV, but not buying from the current crop. Still waiting for an EV with 300+ miles range that feels like a car instead of a post-modern art project or a space-ship. Give me a Nissan Leaf with a 100 kWh battery pack and modern charging for $35K and I'll buy it tomorrow. But I won't buy a car with touch screens, door handles that don't work, or a steering yoke for any price.
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Manufacturers should have been pushing real hybrids on all their models for the last 20 years, but they didn't. They could have transitioned to PHEV's ten years ago, but didn't.
Now, we're at a point where we absolutely need to get emissions under control, and battery technology has caught up to allow full BEVs to get cheaper and cheaper. As more lithium mines and other supply-side resources get online, we're not going to have nearly as many issues just making full BEVs as in the past.
Hybrids had their chance, but manufacturers let them stagnate and we need to move on.
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This isn't true rav4 gas vs rav hybrid only has $1000 to $2000 difference in MSRP. My last car was an xv crosstrek. I am literally getting minimum 12mpg more and its a bigger car.
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