That guest network you set up for your neighbors may not be as secure as you think.
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[edited to add source.]Improving Network Isolation. To improve isolation mechanisms on single APs, untrusted BSSIDs (e.g., guest networks) can be put in isolation groups, i.e., VLANs. VLANs logically separate network segments, meaning an attacker on one VLAN cannot send packets to or snoop on another VLAN. This prevents a client in the untrusted BSSID from launching the port stealing attack to redirect traffic destined to the victim in a trusted BSSID.
I've configured a few public WIFI stuff. And in the back-end, especially in businesses and enterprise settings, you always segment the Guest/Public Wireless. Some even go as far as having a separate WAN link dedicated to guest to fully isolate Guest from Internal services.It appears that you can mitigate threats to internal networks by putting guest wifi onto its own VLAN with no access to the internal VLANs. Just setup the guest wifi as only allowed WAN access. Still sucks for public wifi and for guest wifi at large public spaces though.
by contrast, requires that the attacker already have some sort of access to the Wi-Fi network.
It seems to only work in same VLAN , so an issue for domestic guest WiFi which tend to be in same vlan as production (same subnet) but not for proper enterprise setup with a vlan per SSID and general assumption that everyone on same vlan is at same trust level.
Same confusion and basic questions here. I found the linked paper to be somewhat clearer, especially in stating that specifically WLAN device isolation is affected in the first place, not WIFI encryption as such.Wait, I am having a very hard time understanding the severity of this potential attack.
Does it require Physical access to anything? If so, it's kind of odd to think of a someone who works with network stuff. I can't wrap my head around how this isn't just easily thwarted by proper VLAN management.
No exposed data ports should have the same VLAN as any of the access points, and especially any of the SSIDs. I don't get how the man in the middle in this case would work. Seems like several things need to be wrongly configured to make this attack work well.
Does this potentially break WIFI encryption? Yeah. But it seems like the traditional "If the attacker can get this exploit done, then you've had bigger problems before" type of exploit.
I just need to know how easy it is to get this exploit done on a properly configured enterprise level network, with VLANs and other security measures set. Just because you splice into a cable physically doesn't mean Layers 2 to 7 suddenly become vulnerable...
Presuming ISPs were as foolish in configuration as they frequently are at the install points....that could make take this from being a "problem", to being a really big deal.And this folks is why I told Comcast to shove their router with WIFI up their exhaust port. Outside the fact that I'm not here to build out their infrastructure for their VOIP business unless they pay me, I don't want to allow ANYONE I know to be on the same network as my stuff.
This is what I was thinking as well. I can kind of see how maybe you might be able to DOS a production client from a guest vlan with this attack but that's about it. As soon as you tried to mitm, wouldn't layer 3 come into play and then you...the attacker...would be on the wrong segment?It appears that you can mitigate threats to internal networks by putting guest wifi onto its own VLAN with no access to the internal VLANs. Just setup the guest wifi as only allowed WAN access. Still sucks for public wifi and for guest wifi at large public spaces though.
The X factor is I have no idea how Comcast configures the isolation on these devices. Is it a straight up VLAN or something else? Doesn't really matter to me. I have a zero trust relationship with these devices.Presuming ISPs were as foolish in configuration as they frequently are at the install points....that could make take this from being a "problem", to being a really big deal.
It isn't just Comcast, Spectrum officers a similar thing IIRC. It seemed like a neat idea--but now a really dumb one.The X factor is I have no idea how Comcast configures the isolation on these devices. Is it a straight up VLAN or something else? Doesn't really matter to me. I have a zero trust relationship with these devices.
It was always stupid. Random people hopping on your AP wastes your airtime and your already oversubscribed, congested DOCSIS link back to a shit ISP that couldn't give less of a fuck about you because they have an effective monopoly with essentially no regulation.It isn't just Comcast, Spectrum officers a similar thing IIRC. It seemed like a neat idea--but now a really dumb one.
What is physical access to Wi-Fi? I mean, yes, you have to be in range of the wifi devices. But that might be having a nearby repeater device outside the premises.Wait, I am having a very hard time understanding the severity of this potential attack.
Does it require Physical access to anything? If so, it's kind of odd to think of a someone who works with network stuff. I can't wrap my head around how this isn't just easily thwarted by proper VLAN management.
No exposed data ports should have the same VLAN as any of the access points, and especially any of the SSIDs. I don't get how the man in the middle in this case would work. Seems like several things need to be wrongly configured to make this attack work well.
Does this potentially break WIFI encryption? Yeah. But it seems like the traditional "If the attacker can get this exploit done, then you've had bigger problems before" type of exploit.
I just need to know how easy it is to get this exploit done on a properly configured enterprise level network, with VLANs and other security measures set. Just because you splice into a cable physically doesn't mean Layers 2 to 7 suddenly become vulnerable...
Thanks to you and Afidel. I had wondered about that. My guest network is already setup as WAN access only for my guest network. I'll admit I don't have VLANs setup (but I can, my switch and AP support VLANs).It appears that you can mitigate threats to internal networks by putting guest wifi onto its own VLAN with no access to the internal VLANs. Just setup the guest wifi as only allowed WAN access. Still sucks for public wifi and for guest wifi at large public spaces though.
Aren't you supposed to hold vinyl records by the edges so you don't risk damaging the grooves?I approve of the upper deck and sub heading for this story.
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If guest devices are on the same subnet as everything else, it sounds like you'd be vulnerable to this. This sounds like spoofing at layers 1 and 2.Thanks to you and Afidel. I had wondered about that. My guest network is already setup as WAN access only for my guest network. I'll admit I don't have VLANs setup (but I can, my switch and AP support VLANs).
Needs more em—dashNice article - good explanation of a complicated topic!
Thanks for the effort you put in on this - much appreciated!
I do not worry about touching my records, but even if I was precious with some of them I would not be with my novelty 45 I bought for a dollar in 1998 for the Reservoir Dogs connection.Aren't you supposed to hold vinyl records by the edges so you don't risk damaging the grooves?

Repeaters add delay. Most attackers will use an antenna. A 9 dBi yagi antenna is inexpensive and can get you several hundred meters of distance with a little practice.What is physical access to Wi-Fi? I mean, yes, you have to be in range of the wifi devices. But that might be having a nearby repeater device outside the premises.
Wi-Fi has the same basic problem as SMTP: it has fundamental weaknesses that are extremely hard to fix without utterly shattering backward compatibility that too many things rely on. It's good enough for most things, and there are a pile of fixes to address the problem.What we really need, I think, though, is a modern Wi-Fi replacement/updated version that uses strong key-based encryption/authentication at Level 1 of the network stack? Is that the right takeaway here?
I never used the 'xfinititywifi' or whatever it's called that comes with their router. I always used my own cable modem and router. But surely it doesn't dump the random xfinitity customers onto the same LAN as your own stuff. I mean if it did, that gives you the opportunity to do all sorts of hilarious stuff to the unwanted visitors on your network.And this folks is why I told Comcast to shove their router with WIFI up their exhaust port. Outside the fact that I'm not here to build out their infrastructure for their VOIP business unless they pay me, I don't want to allow ANYONE I don't know to be on the same network as my stuff.
I would not at all be surprised if it just does client isolation, which as this exploit demonstrates is not all that isolated.I never used the 'xfinititywifi' or whatever it's called that comes with their router. I always used my own cable modem and router. But surely it doesn't dump the random xfinitity customers onto the same LAN as your own stuff. I mean if it did, that gives you the opportunity to do all sorts of hilarious stuff to the unwanted visitors on your network.
I haven't read the paper (I will if I find some time later today), but this made me go re-read the description of the attack here.Hi folks! Great comments and questions on whether VLAN isolation helps here. The short answer is that VLANs are not a practical barrier -- if your APs advertise more than one SSID (ex: Guest and Work) networks, its implied that those are on different VLANs, and that the WAP itself is enforcing the VLAN segmentation.
The AirSnitch attacks are effectively "physical" layer - an attacker can use shared group keys and the broadcast injection to target a client in any VLAN. The alternative is to limit each WAP to a single VLAN at the switch level, but then you can't use the same physical WAP for multiple SSIDs, and its impractical to deploy multiple WAPs in the same physical space when multi-SSID/VLAN modes are built into the product.
There may be specific devices where AirSnitch can't cross VLANs, but those are likely in the minority here.