NeuralDSP models John Mayer’s entire amp and effects rig—and it sounds great

Mayer gets the "Archetype" treatment.

See full article...

 

[Corporate_Goon]

I use a headrush and am very happy with it but I am jealous of NeuralDSP users and their ability to get exact copies of guitarists' setups. I'm a big fan of Haken and Caligula's Horse, and the guitarists in those bands have made their settings and signal chains available to fans for download, which is just awsome.

 

[Sadre]

I follow the remaining vestige of the Grateful Dead's... money trail and the merchandising arm of this situation is unreal. The entire scene, from young to old, is consuming vast quantities. Vast quantities of merch of almost any kind. You have to see it to believe it. They release limited edition vinyl editions of shows that are available free on the IA. That's market appetite.

This Finnish company has done their homework.

 

[salbee17]

I would love to claim I understood half of this article, but the reality is more like 10%. And even so, I thoroughly enjoyed it! Thanks for such an interesting read, Nate!

 

[flawinthesystem]

If anyone is interested, Rick Beato just posted his tour video of Neural DSPs headquarters and a look at how they model amps.

 

[cothrun]

How responsive is this to picking dynamics at the edge of breakup and slightly distorted tones? I demo'd several of the Neural DSP plugins, including Tone King, last year and they all sounded good but didn't feel very responsive to dynamic playing. UAD's plugins feel more responsive to me and several others (Scuffham, Softube come to mind) do better as well. I can understand not getting this from some of the high-gain offerings (Neural ones sound great, don't get me wrong) but I'm also looking for options for dynamic responsiveness.

I'll give this a try at some point when it is on sale but I'm trying to combat the G.A.S. and make more music with the gear I have.

 

[weaslem32]

Finnish company started by a pair of Chilean expats. As mentioned above, Rick Beato's recent video/visit has some interesting insight into Neural DSP.

I'm interested in checking out John Mayer suite, as I do love me some great harmonic tremolo.

 

[Fatesrider]

Personally I find it ironic that in the 21st century, people are using 21st century technology to emulate 20th century sound.

It kind of reminds me that 21st century means of producing sound is what killed 20th century sound tech to begin with.

 

[Pugnax555]

... a Dumble Steel String Singer #002 ...

Heh, "a" Steel String Singer #002. Dumble tweaked the circuits of each amp he made, so no 2 were alike. Serial #002 is different from #001 and #003.

 

[Biffstar]

Personally I find it ironic that in the 21st century, people are using 21st century technology to emulate 20th century sound.

It kind of reminds me that 21st century means of producing sound is what killed 20th century sound tech to begin with.

That's a bit of a narrowminded view.

How long have pianos been around, and are still in use?

 

[spacekobra]

Nice try Nate, your high praise of the software I keep wanting to get won't convince me to buy it.

This time...

 

[shodanbo]

That's a bit of a narrowminded view.

How long have pianos been around, and are still in use?

Agreed.

Brass, woodwinds strings and percussion as well.

All these things can be emulated with synthesizers.

But the physicality of playing these instruments and the nuance of sound that can be produced from that physicality can be hard to capture.

Electric guitar effects and distortion can be reproduced digitally because a lot of the tools involved were electronic in nature to begin with. Even so, capturing the non-linear nature of analog circuits can be complex to get 100% right in the digital space without introducing too much delay into the process.

But the physicality that comes from activating the strings/pipes/membranes with your body in sync with your emotions is another matter entirely.

A machine learning algorithm may be able to crack that eventually, but not yet.

 

[Deleted member 221201]

To find out, I spent a few hours playing with Mayer X, and I came away impressed. Neural DSP has released so many metal amp sims in the last few years that I’ve come to associate the company with downtuned chugga-chugga.

See Rick Beato's interview with the founder and engineers, who are all (mostly) metalheads
posted by someone above

I would like to see them model the Vox (Brian May) or JCM 800 (Slash)

At the end of the day the actual amp or plugin + guitar can only get you so close.
The rest really is in your ability to play and have a good vibrato, it's all in the hands

 

[Deleted member 221201]

Agreed.

Brass, woodwinds strings and percussion as well.

All these things can be emulated with synthesizers.

But the physicality of playing these instruments and the nuance of sound that can be produced from that physicality can be hard to capture.

Electric guitar effects and distortion can be reproduced digitally because a lot of the tools involved were electronic in nature to begin with. Even so, capturing the non-linear nature of analog circuits can be complex to get 100% right in the digital space without introducing too much delay into the process.

But the physicality that comes from activating the strings/pipes/membranes with your body in sync with your emotions is another matter entirely.

A machine learning algorithm may be able to crack that eventually, but not yet.

Check Rick's YouTube interview on how they made a custom robot to tweak the knobs on an amp to capture the thousand's of tonal combinations

 

[Deleted member 221201]

@Nate

Are you in line for the Helix Stadium XL ?

 

[kingjj]

It kind of reminds me that 21st century means of producing sound is what killed 20th century sound tech to begin with.

Ha!
We have a vibrosonic here (which I'm guessing is a version of vibroverb mentioned above) that I've never seen anyone use. So I have to chuckle about people creating deluxe emulations of amps no one wants to use, so that people suddenly want to use them.

Okay, my head hurts a little.

 

[K1500]

Possibly dumb question but how do your trigger these effects pedals while you are playing? I mean if I need to flick the volume boost on for section of a run over a short timeframe (like a second or two).

I've used amp sims before, but only for recording, if I want to play for enjoyment or write then I plug into my amp.

 

[Nate Anderson]

How responsive is this to picking dynamics at the edge of breakup and slightly distorted tones? I demo'd several of the Neural DSP plugins, including Tone King, last year and they all sounded good but didn't feel very responsive to dynamic playing. UAD's plugins feel more responsive to me and several others (Scuffham, Softube come to mind) do better as well. I can understand not getting this from some of the high-gain offerings (Neural ones sound great, don't get me wrong) but I'm also looking for options for dynamic responsiveness.

I'll give this a try at some point when it is on sale but I'm trying to combat the G.A.S. and make more music with the gear I have.

Guess it depends what you're looking for and what pickups you have, etc, but I thought the Mayer X stuff was decently responsive. You can really hear it on the edge of breakup tones; playing light can get pretty clean and you hear the dirt when you dig in. But I haven't used Scuffham or Softtube's newer stuff, so hard to compare directly. I'd say try the 14 day demo, it's free and has all features unlocked.

 

[-=<Hudson>=-]

I'm still new to this stuff but I have found these articles a pleasant surprise to see start popping up on Ars - I played guitar back in the 90s and a bit into the early 00s but then fell off of it for a while (20+ years!! ) , and am only now starting to explore what can be done with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen and software on my PC. I still have my old Peavey Bandit 112 but I live in an apartment and don't want to torture my neighbours with my fumbling through lessons on the DadRock Youtube channel, so the USB input and playing through headphones with software amp and effects modelers has been a revelation.

Currently I use and greatly enjoy the full Amplitube 5 Max bundle I snagged on sale for $99 for modelling what feels like a great selection of amps, cabinets, and pedals - and I have whatever the free edition of Ableton was included with the Focusrite but have not touched that yet.

What I am curious about is if any other hobby musicians here have found good comparables for Linux? I am not sure I can carry over any of my software and use them on some kind of app there or if I have to start from scratch? I know Amplitube itself has no Linux edition - but does that mean the gear it models are equally not transportable to anything else but Amplitube? I read all the time you can take any of them that work in Amplitube or even Amplitube itself, or various standalone plugins or models, and stick those into Ableton for example, so it seems in concept at least these things interwork amongst each other to some extent, but not sure how that works in practice.

I believe the Focusrite itself is just a straightforward USB audio interface at heart so should "just work" on Linux but what has anyone's experience been with that? I don't believe ASIO drivers are a thing on Linux and the default sound layer is what's used? How is latency when playing? Has anyone found any helpful YouTube or online guides that helped them learn and make the switch that they would be willing to point a fellow novice at?

I've done a cursory search and have seen some Linux amp and effects modelers options listed, I am starting to cast about to try learning some of these answers myself but since these stories have begun to appear here I figured I would see if anyone here has firsthand experience with anything and is willing to share?

This is probably my last major barrier to leaving Windows, is my uncertainty around this stuff on Linux.

 

[Nate Anderson]

Possibly dumb question but how do your trigger these effects pedals while you are playing? I mean if I need to flick the volume boost on for section of a run over a short timeframe (like a second or two).

I've used amp sims before, but only for recording, if I want to play for enjoyment or write then I plug into my amp

You can automate these changes in your DAW, of course, after recording; but if you want to make the tweaks as a you play in realtime, you can use a MIDI controller, either pedalboard style or even a MIDI keyboard (Mayer X has MIDI learn functionality, so you can assign any control to any MIDI knob, dial, or toggle).

 

[Nate Anderson]

What I am curious about is if any other hobby musicians here have found good comparables for Linux? I am not sure I can carry over any of my software and use them on some kind of app there or if I have to start from scratch? I know Amplitube itself has no Linux edition - but does that mean the gear it models are equally not transportable to anything else but Amplitube? I read all the time you can take any of them that work in Amplitube or even Amplitube itself, or various standalone plugins or models, and stick those into Ableton for example, so it seems in concept at least these things interwork amongst each other to some extent, but not sure how that works in practice.

I've done a cursory search and have seen some Linux amp and effects modelers options listed, I am starting to cast about to try learning some of these answers myself but since these stories have begun to appear here I figured I would see if anyone here has firsthand experience with anything and is willing to share?

This is probably my last major barrier to leaving Windows, is my uncertainty around this stuff on Linux.

Not sure if any of the software suites run on Linux, but if you want to move to Linux and just need a silent amp/cab sim setup... you could always use hardware. Neural DSP makes expensive hardware boxes, of course, but Tonex has some pretty cheap ones that have good quality sound. You may need software to control what models get stored on the pedal, but after that, you can just run cables from the pedal to your audio interface.

 

[K1500]

You can automate these changes in your DAW, of course, after recording; but if you want to make the tweaks as a you play in realtime, you can use a MIDI controller, either pedalboard style or even a MIDI keyboard (Mayer X has MIDI learn functionality, so you can assign any control to any MIDI knob, dial, or toggle).

Ahh all good (or not as it would seem). Obviously a midi-keyboard is no good (as that requires taking your hand off the guitar). While I like the options available on amp sims they seem a little constrained for a wider range of uses (like live/practice, jamming and tone experimenting) unless you dump quite a bit of money into it.

But thanks for your answer, it is appreciated.

 

[weaslem32]

Not sure if any of the software suites run on Linux, but if you want to move to Linux and just need a silent amp/cab sim setup... you could always use hardware. Neural DSP makes expensive hardware boxes, of course, but Tonex has some pretty cheap ones that have good quality sound. You may need software to control what models get stored on the pedal, but after that, you can just run cables from the pedal to your audio interface.

Yep, just make sure you get a "reactive" load box and not resistive. I use a Two Notes Captor straight out of an amp and into my recording interface into Reaper DAW (which is available on Linux). Just need cab sims or IRs.

 

[sasenach]

I’m very new to all this.. I used to play bass many many years ago, so many I’m pretty much back to basics. I’ve now got a semi acoustic bass to get myself back into it… and it’s got me wondering what type of possibilities are out there for bassists? Any thoughts or pointers definitely well received! I would seriously love to be able to recreate some of my bass hero’s sounds! (From the Hot Club du France to Les Claypool.. and yeah both are a massive stretch but I can dream right?!)

 

[Deleted member 221201]

You can automate these changes in your DAW, of course, after recording; but if you want to make the tweaks as a you play in realtime, you can use a MIDI controller, either pedalboard style or even a MIDI keyboard (Mayer X has MIDI learn functionality, so you can assign any control to any MIDI knob, dial, or toggle).

1. Create a System Change Event trigger
2. Assign target to Aux patch
3. Move SCE to AUX

Enjoy

 

[Gyrator]

Artists who decry AI software for its ability to copy their unique sound are also inviting in software companies to model everything that makes their sound unique.

 

[Deleted member 221201]

Artists who decry AI software for its ability to copy their unique sound are also inviting in software companies to model everything that makes their sound unique.

Archetype: Milli Vannili Plugin

 

[Secondfloor]

So, this is a good use of AI?

 

[r0kk3rz]

I’m very new to all this.. I used to play bass many many years ago, so many I’m pretty much back to basics. I’ve now got a semi acoustic bass to get myself back into it… and it’s got me wondering what type of possibilities are out there for bassists? Any thoughts or pointers definitely well received! I would seriously love to be able to recreate some of my bass hero’s sounds! (From the Hot Club du France to Les Claypool.. and yeah both are a massive stretch but I can dream right?!)

There's not much artist specific stuff for bassists around, but I personally use the Laney Digbeth model from Aurora DSP which sounds great and has a lot of range to get the sound you want. Its full featured enough that you could use just that software with an interface.

 

[Corporate_Goon]

Possibly dumb question but how do your trigger these effects pedals while you are playing? I mean if I need to flick the volume boost on for section of a run over a short timeframe (like a second or two).

I've used amp sims before, but only for recording, if I want to play for enjoyment or write then I plug into my amp.

You use a Neural DSP Quad Cortex and set it up so the various foot switches trigger the individual effects or effects chains you want, and then you play just like you were using a regular pedalboard, except you plug straight into a soundboard, audio interface, or PA speaker, instead of running through an amp and cab.

 

[spindizzy]

So do we really need one amp sim package?

Strange question seeing it's got three amps in it.

It really does sound great. Strangely it sounds better to me through my Les Paul than my Fender John Mayer sig strat.
Neural knocked it out of the park.

 

[spindizzy]

So, this is a good use of AI?

I haven't seen a single mention of them using AI in the development of this, so I don't know where you're getting this take from.

 

[Corporate_Goon]

Artists who decry AI software for its ability to copy their unique sound are also inviting in software companies to model everything that makes their sound unique.

Choosing to offer a service for which you'll be paid =/= having something taken from you without compensation or consent.

 

[AngusL]

I’m very new to all this.. I used to play bass many many years ago, so many I’m pretty much back to basics. I’ve now got a semi acoustic bass to get myself back into it… and it’s got me wondering what type of possibilities are out there for bassists? Any thoughts or pointers definitely well received! I would seriously love to be able to recreate some of my bass hero’s sounds! (From the Hot Club du France to Les Claypool.. and yeah both are a massive stretch but I can dream right?!)

I use a relatively cheap USB interface with my laptop and stand alone guitar/bass effects software Guitar Rig 7 and various plugins. I almost exclusively play through headphones because I live in a place where I cannot really run my bass through an Amp.

I am not sure if it is available in your region but there is a Humble Bundle currently with a slightly older version of Amplitude and Mixbox and some entry versions of some of IKs software. It has a bunch of stuff that I wasn't interested in but could be of interest to you if you want to dip your toe in to PC/MAC based effects and modelling.
IK Humble Bundle

 

[caramelpolice]

I asked this in the last guitar amp sim thread and got no responses, but am still curious, so I'll ask again:

I’ve been using Logic’s bundled amp modeling and pedals for a while, primarily because, well, it came free with Logic. I don’t love it (in particular, I constantly have to turn down the gain because the distortion at higher gains is really harsh), but my experiences with Amplitube haven’t been great either. For anyone who has used Neural DSP, Paradise, etc., what would you say are the biggest perks compared to Logic’s amp modeling?

 

[Secondfloor]

I haven't seen a single mention of them using AI in the development of this, so I don't know where you're getting this take from.

1. Knowing who NeuralDSP is. I’m assuming you don’t play so ok, you get a pass on that.

2. How many times is neural modeling mentioned in the article?

3. The video posted upstream talks about their realtime neural net training.

4. The link provided in the article to the NeuralDSP website.

 

[K1500]

You use a Neural DSP Quad Cortex and set it up so the various foot switches trigger the individual effects or effects chains you want, and then you play just like you were using a regular pedalboard, except you plug straight into a soundboard, audio interface, or PA speaker, instead of running through an amp and cab.

Ahhh, not at that price I don't - that costs more than my amp, pedals and most of my guitars all put together (price check was $4K NZD). And I see it has issues with latency when using external effects through a loop. So is clearly not the kind of product for me, which is fair enough. Again I appreciate the response though.

 

[Secondfloor]

I asked this in the last guitar amp sim thread and got no responses, but am still curious, so I'll ask again:

I would say if you have to ask, you don’t need it. These are professional performance products, and are very expensive compared to the free version of Logix you have. The performance hardware is $1,800 by itself.

But if you want to try them yourself, you can get a trial license and the plugins work in Garage Band.

 

[Electromikey]

What I am curious about is if any other hobby musicians here have found good comparables for Linux? I am not sure I can carry over any of my software and use them on some kind of app there or if I have to start from scratch? I know Amplitube itself has no Linux edition - but does that mean the gear it models are equally not transportable to anything else but Amplitube? I read all the time you can take any of them that work in Amplitube or even Amplitube itself, or various standalone plugins or models, and stick those into Ableton for example, so it seems in concept at least these things interwork amongst each other to some extent, but not sure how that works in practice.

Reaper has a full Linux version, if memory serves, so there’s at least one DAW option. Bitwig is another. I hear Yabridge is a sometimes-useful way to host Windows VST plugins (like Amplitube) on Linux.

A friend of mine managed to get most of his plugins working on Linux a while back, so there’s probably some combination of software that would get your intended results between VST plugins and bridge layers like Yabridge.

 

[Secondfloor]

Reaper has a full Linux version, if memory serves, so there’s at least one DAW option. Bitwig is another. I hear Yabridge is a sometimes-useful way to host Windows VST plugins (like Amplitube) on Linux.

A friend of mine managed to get most of his plugins working on Linux a while back, so there’s probably some combination of software that would get your intended results between VST plugins and bridge layers like Yabridge.

NeuralDSP plugins require DRM software that runs as a service on Windows and MacOS. This software phones home for license authentication.