I think the interior of a habitat becomes sovereign territory of the nation running it. But if another country decides to set up a mining operation ten meters from the front door then good luck. All the people back on Earth can do is formally complain and hope that other nation doesn't just laugh at them.Does the Outer Space Treaty allow you to control access to the interior spaces of your moon base? Or are we talking about a treaty that will instantly become obsolete the day someone sets up the first lunar habitat with a lock on the exterior door?
It appears so yesDo we know if these contracts are fixed point? What are the likelihood these companies make a rover for under $220 million?
NASA has awarded Astrolab $219 million and Lunar Outpost $220 million to build and deliver the first phase of LTVs. Awarded under the Phase 1 High Achievability Mission task orders of the Lunar Terrain Vehicle Services contract, these firm-fixed-price, performance-based milestones will enable NASA to deploy crewed and uncrewed mobility systems to the lunar surface by 2028 through the agency’s CLPS (Commercial Lunar Payload Services) initiative.
Not to poo poo the US bad train, but setting up any kind of permanent base IE the stated goal of the Artemis Accords and China's own stated eventual ambition will perforce result in a perimeter.Establishing a perimeter would seem to be the first manifestation of USAn extraterrestrial imperialism.
The original Lunar Roving Vehicle was $300M (2026 dollars) for four vehicles and a few engineering models. So they should be able to do it.Do we know if these contracts are fixed point? What are the likelihood these companies make a rover for under $220 million?
Not sure why you’d expect the Chinese to be respectful of this policy as they’ve spent the past decade building and fortifying artificial islands in the South China Sea as they attempt to assert control over international waters.
In the absence of functioning international law frameworks, sovereignty operates on the law of the jungle: land belongs to those with the biggest guns.I think the interior of a habitat becomes sovereign territory of the nation running it. But if another country decides to set up a mining operation ten meters from the front door then good luck. All the people back on Earth can do is formally complain and hope that other nation doesn't just laugh at them.
I guess if we're coming in with some horizontal velocity we need to cancel in order to land, and that happens to preferentialy spew the lunar dust onto your site, well sorry. That's just orbital mechanics....One of the main examples of possible harmful interference is the dust that's kicked up by landing or launching on the Moon using rocket engines. With no atmosphere to stop it, lunar dust spreads far and wide on ballistic trajectories, blasting everything on the surface and possibly reaching orbital velocities.
The "drones" mentioned in the article are presumably rocket powered (if they fly), and so will also present this problem. And if they are not to be one-and-done, then how will they be refueled?One of the main examples of possible harmful interference is the dust that's kicked up by landing or launching on the Moon using rocket engines. With no atmosphere to stop it, lunar dust spreads far and wide on ballistic trajectories, blasting everything on the surface and possibly reaching orbital velocities.
Oh good. A moonbase. Why?
Or they could stick with the flying theme and just name it "Icarus". That's Greek, and I'm sure it will be great.Minor point but, naming a driving vehicle Pegasus? There’s got to be a better name for a rover than a flying horse. What about Lupa if you want Greek mythology, or something more JPL-esque like Trailblazer or Explorer?
Yea! Just use a Starship 3 and dump a metric ton of Optimus and maybe a few cybercabs!Isn't the moon close enough that we can just remotely operate everything? Let's send some humanoid robots up there while we're at it and some power tools.
Terra Nullius returnsNot to poo poo the US bad train, but setting up any kind of permanent base IE the stated goal of the Artemis Accords and China's own stated eventual ambition will perforce result in a perimeter.
You don't spend billions setting up a base to not stake out an area around it that you value. Don't want the international equivalent of meth heads rolling up and hooking into your power and water. (Note I'm not implying whomever else is on the moon are on drugs.) There are some things that are just finite resources and you need them kept safe for your eventual use.
The Chinese base or an imaginary Russian one, or a future Indian one, or EU one would almost certainly have similar requirements. Can't Bogart our stuff we need it.
It's all well and good to sign treaties about not claiming land or space off Earth when no one is remotely able to setup such facilities, but it was always doomed to die a quiet bureaucratic death when the realities of having such a base set in. Don't want your scarce moon water getting sucked up by a neighbor, don't want your limited sunlight areas being take over by someone else when you built a base right next to it.
Possession is 9/10ths of the law is a common saying for a reason, because it's historically been very true. The land your settled on is yours, hell we can look to American history as the truth of this. Even if the Natives were here first they were driven off and since no one else was around to claim it the land became the settler's that were there.
It's gross and it's ugly, but it's also reality, reality we're seeing repeated in the middle East right now.
Do I like that we can't all just get along and move into a StarTrek future where we acutally get along and aren't dicks to each other? No, but acting like this wasn't a super obvious inevitable outcome as soon as anyone started setting up a base is naive at best and maliciously ignorant at worst.
The US is just being honest about their/our intentions with the understanding that it should avoid conflicts if there are clearly marked areas each country can play in without pissing the others off.
Tritium has such a short life life that it cannot really meaningfully accumulate anywhere, and it's decay product (helium-3) only exists in trace amounts anywhere in the universe let alone the Moon. Deuterium also isn't exactly abundant on the Lunar surface or in the trace amounts of deposited volatiles.Because a moonbase is awesome. A great place from which to observe and study the Earth, and the Moon, and the rest of our solar system and deep space. A good place to support sending probes to Mars, the Asteroid Belt, and elsewhere in the solar system, and perhaps even building them from local materials (not needed to be launched from Earth), and perhaps fueling them whether by solar retransmitted to vehicles, or by deuterium and tritium accumulated on the Far Side.
That's not the point though, is it? We only need to believe it can happen until Jan 20th, 2029, then it can all be quietly dropped.So, how many fools out there believe this is all going to happen, if ever, even remotely on schedule and close to cost?
That is the excuse being offered, yes.
Can you think of any reason why the rest of the world should trust it?
That's not the point though, is it? We only need to believe it can happen until Jan 20th, 2029, then it can all be quietly dropped.