Microsoft should stick to its guns and keep the Start button gone

Op-ed: If Redmond wants Metro apps to succeed, it needs education, not capitulation.

Read the whole story

 

[nibb]

AxMi-24[/url]":1mmu4u6u]The main problem with the whole metro and start screen is that it forces context switch for humans (and those happen to be the ones using the thing). Human memory is notoriously bad at context switching and that is why start menu was much better option as the screen retained most of the old information instead of going full screen like in win8.

It's very easy to see just how bad humans are at this. Just try working on several documents while seeing them all (multi monitor setup for example) and then try doing the same but with alt tab. Alt tab is almost instant but it's still a lot less efficient as it forces context switch.

I know that MS wants to push their terrible phones and tablets but that is no excuse to shaft all the PC users. Especially as design choices they made are obviously wrong for productivity on a PC.

You are 100% correct on this. It takes more time to switch to that document or window with ALT + tab vs just looking the icon in the taskbar or the windows open somewhere and clicking on it.

Even while ALT + tab is way faster. The minute something huge changes on the screen, and mind which was focused exactly on one of more screens goes into a baffle mode and needs to rethink from scratch again. This confuses users,

Metro does exactly that, it completely changes your visual and its like a hiit to the brain when you are focused on a specific task and are switching between programs or windows.

Its unbelievable that a company with millions of dollars in GUI design could not figured that out. It seems nobody at Microsoft actually works for several hours focused on their screens. They went completely with the GUI based on looks alone, not productivity.

 

[Demonicume]

Not even sure what the debate is about. I'll do the same thing I've been doing since Win95: find ways to disable the parts of the OS I don't like. Windows can be personalized. I moved everyone in my house over to Win8, disabled the metro menu on the non-tablets and kept rolling. My family loves the new "upgrades". Problem solved, moving on now. These customizations even work in enterprise environments. once you've sliced out the stuff that you don't like, Win8 is even better than Win7.

 

[archtop]

dooza[/url]":1ojeijmt]What I'd really like to see implemented in Windows 8.1 is a two finger gesture that removes Metro on a desktop. I'd be very impressed if they did.

How about a one-finger gesture?

 

[joshv]

"As such, unless Microsoft does something even more radical, such as make the taskbar a permanent on-screen fixture, Windows 8.1 users cannot depend on being able to see a Start button."

Sure I can, I never leave desktop. None of the WinRT toy apps are anything I want to use (and believe me, I tried, I really tried to like them). And as far as I am concerned they did not go far enough, I don't want the button, I want the button and the old start menu. That's why I bought Start8 and have never looked back.

I tried for months to use Windows 8 and the darned start screen, it just did not work right. Tiles moving all over the place, search that didn't find the apps I was looking for without a lot of clicking. Sorry, they had their chance with me and they blew it.

 

[JEDIDIAH]

firsttimeposter[/url]":dmnwxsli]

kap42[/url]":dmnwxsli]

firsttimeposter[/url]":dmnwxsli]
And what's wrong with MS focusing on tablets? Should they just sit there and watch as Apple and Google sweep them aside? PCs are diminishing and if MS wants to stay relevant they NEED to get into tablets.

There's no evidence that PCs are diminishing. Yes, people aren't buying as many new ones, since their old one is good enough and doesn't need to be updated to run new programs (which is a new situation). Therefore people are buying tablets instead of needlessly updating their computers. Tablets are not replacing PCs, but rather they are supplementing them.

So I wonder why all the fanboys and the press are doom and gloom about MS. They are off their head with joy about how Apple and Google are destroying MS. Are you saying MS should not be concerned about rise of tablet computing and their lack of share in that segment?

PCs started out as clones of an IBM product. PCs may revert to purely being "business machines" but they will likely never go away and there are plenty of people that need to get work done.

Tablets are nifty but too locked down. Companies try to avoid making them completely general purpose. That will always alienate a segment of power users and undermine the creation of new killer apps.

 

[Bengie25]

riverlaw[/url]":226q06ya]I installed win 8 for games. I had to google how to shut it down. That was awesome. Way to force crap on you customers just so you can catch up on touch screen apps.

You couldn't find the power button on your case?

Microsoft said almost no one used the shutdown in the start-menu and almost exclusively used the one on their case. Congrats, you're unique.

 

[iniudan]

HungryBadger[/url]":dghhj9ws]

firsttimeposter[/url]":dghhj9ws]
I find this hilarious because when MS didn't have hot corners, everyone was raving about hot corners about OS X.

And everyone seems to forget that the Apple menu functionality (which the Start menu was basically a clone of) was removed in the very first version of OS X, precisely because a menu was considered an awful way of trying to launch applications.

Yes, but Apple doesn't juggle with 2 application ecosystem on the same hardware, with them it is their way or the highway.

What Microsoft is giving, with Windows 8, is an incomplete legacy ecosystem GUI support, while the main ecosystem GUI is not adapted for most of the hardware it sold on. But sadly for them, two half-asses solution does not equal a full ass.

And it not like the legacy ecosystem couldn't be complete, just look at Stardock software, they most likely know some part of Microsoft NT ecosystem more then Microsoft themselves, due to been an old OS/2 developer team. This is most likely due to Microsoft development habit, of sending their old software to legacy support, been no longer able to develop them, due to main developer quitting and no one been able to take on the job, once they are gone, so to add new functionality, they just write a completely new software to replace it with new functionality added on top.

 

[DarkSkyForever]

Katana314[/url]":3pvvp7r7]And before you complain about remote desktop: No, when I SSH into a Linux machine, I do not know off the top of my head what the command is to turn it off.

>>shutdown

or

>>poweroff

 

[Tridus]

Metro is not going to succeed if users are confused and unhappy and would rather use Windows 7 (or tools like Start8).

All they're really doing here is alleviating confusion and making a smoother transition for corporate users. Not wanting to do that because it's "capitulation" is just senseless ego. They tried to push this and the market pushed back.

At this point only a company bent on suicide would continue to insist it knows better than what its customers are screaming.

 

[BrunoReX]

The decision to make the touch-oriented and mouse-oriented interface the same is and will always be bad, and by extension, everything built on top of it is gonna suck. Sorry if I don't want to cripple my perfectly working notebook into a cellphone, where every task is 20 times harder to accomplish than necessary.
When I get sick of Windows 7, I'm gonna dual-boot it with Linux Mint (just being realistic here, I'm gonna need to boot into Windows at some point), because the folks who run it know what they are doing.

Before anyone mentions how you can boot directly into the (crippled) desktop and have (paid) 3rd party "start menu" solutions, let's have a little analogy here: let's say I have a spoon and a fork and I want to eat soup with the fork for some reason, I'm sure I can bend its tines in way to make it work sort like a spoon, but that would be an extremely dumb thing to do, I'm going with the spoon, thank you.

 

[JEDIDIAH]

HungryBadger[/url]":2lm84z45]

firsttimeposter[/url]":2lm84z45]
I find this hilarious because when MS didn't have hot corners, everyone was raving about hot corners about OS X.

And everyone seems to forget that the Apple menu functionality (which the Start menu was basically a clone of) was removed in the very first version of OS X, precisely because a menu was considered an awful way of trying to launch applications.

It beats the hell out of digging around in a folder who's name you may or may not even know.

The fact that you've got a gussied up Dock is not a good excuse to get rid of the application menu. You don't have to get rid of the legacy interface. You don't have to make corner cases unecessarily hard.

That's what you do when you gut functionality. You make the less common tasks HARDER than they need to be.

 

[nibb]

cassiusdecimus[/url]":cxhvjmij]As a call center employee, I can certainly agree that Microsoft needed to educate much better on how to use the new interface. Most of this work fell on us, as tech support for an ISP. I felt like video professor for months.

However, having to deal with the abysmal fallout that was Windows 8s launch, I cannot agree that continuing to force elderly and computer illiterate people to learn an interface that they are unfamiliar with is a good idea. People do not like change, especially people who expect to purchase a computer and have it work, not have to learn a totally new interface.

Someone who is tech savvy like myself can see the benefits, and the merits of Windows 8, I actually quite like it. However the majority of people have grown up with the standard Windows, they know it, they like it. Tearing away the familiar start button while saying #dealwithit is not an acceptable solution.

If this was going to be a true transitional OS, then it should have had the Metro interface, and also a safety net start button present. The next iteration could have had just the Metro interface as people would have had the freedom to explore it, rather than the stress of being forced to learn it. I'm excited for Windows 8.1 for two reasons, first, it will help people transition into the OS better. Second, I wont have to hear every single customer complain about how much they absolutely hate it. 1 year in, and I've had 0 customers ever say the like Windows 8.

This is not completely true. People embrace changes if they are good. Metro is not a good change, that is the problem.

If people don´t like change, see how the iPhone made its market, it was a complete new GUI for phone users, most using Nokia or other non smartphones. same for Android.

People loved the new taskbar on Vista and Win7, they actually loved the new looks on Vista, the OS just had too many problems but that is another story which were then fixed in Win7.

Windows Server 2008 and 2008 R2 had amazing reviews, even among Linux sysadmins, everyone agrees it's a great servers OS.

There are so many new things people embrace right away, the Wii, huge TVs, Blue-Ray, Smartphones, etc.

The problem comes when the changes is drastically different and bad. Metro is nice for touch and small screens, its awful for the desktop and multitasking.

Its not that users don´t like changes, and you just need to force them, its that changes like this are bad. If changes are nice, people will get used to them fast, so fast they will forget the old way of doing things and will never go back.

 

[Bengie25]

DSF1942[/url]":l6y5x8vh]

Katana314[/url]":l6y5x8vh]And before you complain about remote desktop: No, when I SSH into a Linux machine, I do not know off the top of my head what the command is to turn it off.

>>shutdown

or

>>poweroff

Last time I used Linux, it took more than just the command "shutdown". I had to use the man pages to figure out which parameters to send to it, and if you did it wrong, it would default to waiting 5 minutes before shutting down..

"warning, root has initiated shutdown, you have 5 minutes".. WTF?! well.. something like that, it's been almost a decade.

The worst part is it wouldn't let me cancel it once started, so I had to wait the entire 5 minutes. Unless I decided to change virtual consoles and initiate yet another shutdown with the correct "now" parameter.

I assume they've changed it by now.

 

[Cartigan]

Bengie25[/url]":1h2t3rvn]

riverlaw[/url]":1h2t3rvn]I installed win 8 for games. I had to google how to shut it down. That was awesome. Way to force crap on you customers just so you can catch up on touch screen apps.

You couldn't find the power button on your case?

Microsoft said almost no one used the shutdown in the start-menu and almost exclusively used the one on their case. Congrats, you're unique.

Has anyone ever met anyone that used the power button on the case to instigate normal shut down procedures?

 

[Tridus]

Bengie25[/url]":1uyk91rb]

riverlaw[/url]":1uyk91rb]I installed win 8 for games. I had to google how to shut it down. That was awesome. Way to force crap on you customers just so you can catch up on touch screen apps.

You couldn't find the power button on your case?

Microsoft said almost no one used the shutdown in the start-menu and almost exclusively used the one on their case. Congrats, you're unique.

Microsoft says a lot of things. Many of them aim to further MIcrosoft's own objectives and self-interest. Like how they also said that nobody wanted the start menu back, right up until they decided to give in and bring it back.

The idea that nobody uses the shutdown button in Windows is laughably stupid.

 

[JEDIDIAH]

DSF1942[/url]":3dtcs21u]

Katana314[/url]":3dtcs21u]And before you complain about remote desktop: No, when I SSH into a Linux machine, I do not know off the top of my head what the command is to turn it off.

>>shutdown

or

>>poweroff

It's the same as it is for any other Unix.

If you don't know what that is, you can just use the man pages. THAT interface is also the same as it is for any other Unix.

A 20 year old Unix primer that predates Linux will still be relevant to Ubuntu 13.04 or MacOS Maine Coon.

 

[Geminiman]

The problem isn't that they took off the start button. It's that they didn't go far enough. What they should have done (especially on the RT version) is remove the taskbar entirely. It serves absolutely no functional purpose at all and it causes FUD by having it there. You want to switch between apps? swipe from the left, or jamb your mouse to the left side of the screen. What to see all running apps? drag down while you do it. Want to see the time? Swipe from the right or jamb your mouse to the right of the screen.

What they should have done is make all apps run maximized and remove the min/max buttons and items from the control box entirely from all apps. For apps that are fixed dialogs and don't allow full screen, they should have put up a black background on them when they run (or keep the same background as the metro start screen).

By doing this with Windows 8, everyone would have gotten a clear message. Desktop apps would have been relegated to legacy but would have worked perfectly within the metaphor of Modern UI and there wouldn't be 2 messages. Given that the VAST majority of legacy apps are opened full screen on the vast majority of computers, this would have eliminated all of the confusing in one shot.

What it would have done is pissed off multi-monitor users because it wouldn't have worked well for them. However, 8.1 fixes this with multiple apps allowed per screen with splitting and multiple apps open at the same time on multiple screens. This eliminates that argument.

I still think that for 8.1 they should enable this mode as the default, and have an option for people to turn on the task bar and the stupid start menu button if they want to live in legacy land. That way those of us that want a pure system can get it. Everyone else that likely ran Windows XP with classic mode for years and probably still does the same with Windows 7 can live with their heads in the sand and refuse to learn all they want and everything will be fine.

Windows 8, like Vista is an excellent OS that suffers from tech geek hate, nothing more. Vista got hated by tech geeks because it required more memory and at release didn't have driver support for homemade computers. Every desktop coming pre-built had every driver and it just worked and was vastly superior for that vast majority of users, but those majority of users listen to their tech geek friends and didn't go for it because the tech geeks hated it, even though that's exactly why they SHOULD HAVE GONE FOR IT.

Windows 8 has the same problem. Tech geeks don't like it. I personally get little value, because I spend my days in Visual Studio with 150 browser tabs and windows open because of my job. But I just got my wife a Surface Pro. SHE LOVES IT. Thinks it's the best computer she's ever used and just loves the Modern UI and how she doesn't have to worry about windows Explorer and where to store her files and native integration of skydrive and the only thing she uses that isn't metro is Word and Excel. Her only comment to me was to ask why there was a different background and the "silly bar" at the bottom when she opened Word. Heck, she doesn't even notice the faults with the Modern Email client and calendar that tech geeks do, and she LIVES in email, and calendars and One Note and her browser for her job. And yes, she had an IPAD and hated it because it was so limited, and LOVES the surface because "it just makes sense". Why? Because she's not a tech geek and doesn't use a computer like a tech geek, but still needs a real computer, and not a toy (i.e. Ipad/android pad).

Tech geeks would do well to look at how a person is going to use it before they judge and comment to others about Windows 8. If you do, you'll see why you're experience and impressions are not even remotely the same as what the vast majority of users, including the vast majority of people you'll advise, will experience with Windows 8.

 

[leonidas78]

Metro might be nice (matter of opinion) for touch screens and extremely small screens, but it's horrendous for the huge desktop monitors (even large laptop monitors) that we have been using for the past 5 years (at least). It simply is NON PRODUCTIVE.
Also, full screen apps? What? Am I in the Tardis and back in 1985? DOS fullscreen programs have made a comeback?
These things might work for phones and even tablets, but not for desktops and laptops. Plz. Put an option in the control panel to choose between METRO and Classic Desktop. There. Problem solved. Choice is never a probem, walled gardens are.
As far as flat design is concerned, that is a matter of taste. Personally I believe flat is the flavor of the month. Even apple is going to use it in iOS7. It's an aesthetic choice that doesn't really affect productivity. Metro apps DO affect it, in a negative way.

 

[Stuka87]

JGoat[/url]":bqjg5390]

Stuka87[/url]":bqjg5390]So the author thinks that Windows users should suffer with a poorly implemented touch interface on the millions of PC's that DON'T HAVE TOUCH!

Not to mention all of us with large, multi-monitor setups have arguable the WORST user experience with Windows 8.

And then don't let me get into the horrible search setup in Windows 8. You can no longer hit the windows key, type want you want, arrow down, and hit enter. Now it requires mouse clicks to do anything.

Sounds like the editor of this article doesn't actually work on their PC outside of typing. Try hooking up three 24+ inch displays and use 15 or so programs at any given time while having to do regular searches for other programs/docs/etc. Then come back and say Windows 8 is fine.

You've got to be joking, Win 8 greatly improves the multi-monitor experience over Win 7.

I search without using my mouse all the time on Win 8, wtf are you talking about?

I'm all for people having different preferences, I don't care if people like Win 8, but it sounds like you've got no idea what you're talking about.

When performing a search, the Start Menu (Windows 7) displays results from all applicable categories in an easy to read list. In contrast, the Start Screen's (Windows 8) Apps, Settings, and Files categories only display one at a time and require the user to perform additional mousing and extra clicks to view all the results from a given search.

As for the displays, *WHY* am I forced to have a full screen menu to display a handful of items? The menu is a joke when using a large monitor.

 

[ginsuchikara]

I tried Windows 8 during the public beta. Hate doesn't even describe how I felt.

I heard SO MUCH Microsoft-fellating that I tried it again a few weeks ago.
On a scale of 1-10, I rate it HOMICIDE.

Seriously, what combination of brainwashing and drugs are they using to get good reviews of that horrendous pile of shit?

I've never been a fan of Windows, but I grew to tolerate 7.

Meanwhile, on 8, I set my AD administrator the task of changing the Metro wallpaper.

He finally did it. It took him 45 minutes, but he figured it out.

After which, I had to take the machine away from him before he threw it threw a wall. He said he never wanted to see Metro again as long as he lives, and he's a card-carrying Microsoft fanboy.

 

[meatofalltrades]

I just can't find any REASON to move from Windows 7 to Windows 8. It was pretty easy to see the value add coming from XP to 7, but I just don't see it here. I can't interpret Microsoft's thinking here...how is this supposed to be a win in the long run? It seems that they're stuck in Jekyll/Hyde mode...

Of course, this is just from a desktop/laptop perspective...Tablets...who knows?

 

[nibb]

stormbeta[/url]":2jcgr3fm]It still irks me that people complain about the least problematic parts of Windows 8 so much and utterly miss one of the biggest issues: the Windows Store is completely closed down. Now, I'm all for curated app stores (e.g. what OSX does), but I have a strict opposition to any ecosystem I can't side load apps into if needed (e.g. iOS). And even iOS has the excuse of being a mobile-focused OS, Windows 8 doesn't even have that. Until or unless Microsoft is willing to allow us to install whatever Metro apps we want, I hope it fails, and I hope it fails *hard*.

Its because nobody is using Windows 8 yet.

Believe me, otherwise you would see more complaints. Personally im 100% with you on this. I would never use a locket garden OS which forces you to one store. Windows Phone is a failure already because of this, you can only buy apps via Microsoft, this means only some countries and with credit card.

The minute a OS forces you to go via one single channel to install the software, I will say bye, bye.

Reason why I would never use an iPhone either.

 

[JGoat]

cassiusdecimus[/url]":1uq848g2]As a call center employee, I can certainly agree that Microsoft needed to educate much better on how to use the new interface. Most of this work fell on us, as tech support for an ISP. I felt like video professor for months.

However, having to deal with the abysmal fallout that was Windows 8s launch, I cannot agree that continuing to force elderly and computer illiterate people to learn an interface that they are unfamiliar with is a good idea. People do not like change, especially people who expect to purchase a computer and have it work, not have to learn a totally new interface.

Someone who is tech savvy like myself can see the benefits, and the merits of Windows 8, I actually quite like it. However the majority of people have grown up with the standard Windows, they know it, they like it. Tearing away the familiar start button while saying #dealwithit is not an acceptable solution.

If this was going to be a true transitional OS, then it should have had the Metro interface, and also a safety net start button present. The next iteration could have had just the Metro interface as people would have had the freedom to explore it, rather than the stress of being forced to learn it. I'm excited for Windows 8.1 for two reasons, first, it will help people transition into the OS better. Second, I wont have to hear every single customer complain about how much they absolutely hate it. 1 year in, and I've had 0 customers ever say the like Windows 8.

It took me about 5 minutes to explain Win 8 to my grandma and parents after setting it up for them. I've supported thousands of users on previous versions of Windows, describing things on Win 8 is a walk in the park compared to every recent version. I agree with you about the educating aspect, they really dropped the ball. A few minute tutorial would have eased people into Win 8, and that tutorial should have started by asking what kind of device you're using. My only gripe now is having to change the default programs for various filetypes to use desktop programs instead of metro ones, but in the grand scheme, that's pretty trivial.

 

[SolidOak]

Jobe1983[/url]":3pj04bwv]

if there was an option to either use metro or classic windows, I would love this new os. I dont care really much for the new GUI, but under the hood, it is fairly impressive.

I have heard it performs well. I agree -- if they simply gave the option to use whatever a user wanted, I would consider giving it a shot.

 

[triptik]

The reason I wanted the Start button back is simple: I've been watching my mother struggle with this interface for days.

Power on the computer, and it launches the Start screen. There's a box that says Desktop. Great, now she's on the desktop! But now how does she open a program, if there's no icons on the desktop? She kept having to ask how to get back to the programs, because it was completely non-obvious. BAD DESIGN.

I finally trained her to use the Start key on her keyboard whenever she would ordinarily have used the Start button on the desktop. Sometimes, she still forgets, when she's tired or flustered by something else... So frustrating.

A quick little visual clue of where to click makes life soooo much easier.

 

[Tetraptous]

I actually agree with Peter on this one. When I watch typical computer users try Windows 8, I find that they're mostly just frustrated because they don't know how to do the things they did in previous versions of Windows in Windows 8. Microsoft should have built in a more comprehensive tutorial, though, or maybe a "help" overlay to point out where things are and how to use them. I haven't heard anyone other than "power users" complain much about the full-screen nature of the start screen. I think the majority of users really are concerned more about the disappearance of the start button than they are that the start screen has replaced the start menu. I think the concerns of the tech site reading crowd are different; and honestly, not all that important to Microsoft.

 

[chriskrum]

1) The purpose of the metro interface is to push consumers to the app store. It's motivated entirely by Microsoft's envy of Apple's App store. It's nothing to do with what is actually more efficient or better for their desktop customers.

2) When people say they want the "start button" back they mean they want the start button along with the associated menus and control panels. Everyone knows this. Microsoft's half-implementation, a start button that takes you to the hated start screen is little more than a snarky F-U.

3) I've only ever used Microsoft for my computers. I even liked Visa. I love Windows 7 (they did almost everything right, why couldn't they build on that). Windows 8 tells me that Microsoft is determined to drag me to places I don't want to go and lock me down the same way Apple does.

 

[Tridus]

cassiusdecimus[/url]":1d3a9bog]As a call center employee, I can certainly agree that Microsoft needed to educate much better on how to use the new interface. Most of this work fell on us, as tech support for an ISP. I felt like video professor for months.

However, having to deal with the abysmal fallout that was Windows 8s launch, I cannot agree that continuing to force elderly and computer illiterate people to learn an interface that they are unfamiliar with is a good idea. People do not like change, especially people who expect to purchase a computer and have it work, not have to learn a totally new interface.

Someone who is tech savvy like myself can see the benefits, and the merits of Windows 8, I actually quite like it. However the majority of people have grown up with the standard Windows, they know it, they like it. Tearing away the familiar start button while saying #dealwithit is not an acceptable solution.

If this was going to be a true transitional OS, then it should have had the Metro interface, and also a safety net start button present. The next iteration could have had just the Metro interface as people would have had the freedom to explore it, rather than the stress of being forced to learn it. I'm excited for Windows 8.1 for two reasons, first, it will help people transition into the OS better. Second, I wont have to hear every single customer complain about how much they absolutely hate it. 1 year in, and I've had 0 customers ever say the like Windows 8.

You don't think that maybe a year later and nobody has told yo uthey like Windows 8 is a suggestion that maybe Windows 8 is just a mistake?

Metro's benefits are outweighed by its drawbacks, speaking as someone who is tech savvy as well. It confuses less experienced users. It annoys more experienced ones, who want to do crazy things like have multiple things visible at once. It's a touch based UI in a mouse based environment, and that is just flat out a bad idea for exactly the same reasons that a mouse based UI didn't work in a touch environment.

Columns like this one that defend the status quo and seem unahppy that Microsoft is now finally trying to fix their screwups are incredible for the absurdity of it. Metro is that thing that users tolerate (at least until they go buy an iPad).

MS needs to change that if they want to get anywhere, and making it less hostile to non-savvy users (and less annoying to savvy users) is a great idea. All the 8.1 listed changes are good ones. I can't come up with a good reason why this article is opposed except to be a contrarian tech blogger.

 

[pierrebuz]

It's time for the return of Clippy!

 

[TH3xR34P3R]

I have had my key for my laptop and desktop copy of 7 deactivated by M$ twice this year and tried getting support to reactivate, in short they told me to screw off, I went searching and now I can myself activate 7 as many times as I want; so I will be sticking to my copy of windows 7 ult 64 bit till a better iteration is out that actually does improve on what I need to do with the OS whilst supporting ALL my software that I need to use, windows 8/8.1 is a fail on that and everything else. The only place where Metro fits is the console side and touch; it does not belong on the desktop user side and by trying to "simplify" things they made it more complex for the average user to get things done.

The whole point of the start button is a visual option to know that it is there and knowing a feature is not missing; you don't just take out something from a GUI without adding something better and with instructions on how to use it and expect the end user to instantly know how to use it. That's the point where M$ fails at "upgrades".

 

[Quixote2961]

Peter, thanks again for writing a brave opinion piece that speaks the truth.

To all those who don't like the Metro interface -- either stick with Windows 7 or move to another OS. It's a simple choice. Just make your decision and stop trying to speak for people like me who fully support the direction MS is taking with Metro and Win8. Thanks in advance.

Microsoft is moving towards a cloud-centric computing model and Metro will be the gateway interface to cloud-based applications and services. Traditional desktop computing will still be supported - but it will be a legacy environment that will not see any further improvement in functionality. This is an OS _migration_, people. Probably the biggest OS migration in history. Kudos to MS for being brave enough to attempt it.

Developers will eventually adapt to this new model and redesign their apps to fit it. Those that don't will be replaced by others who do. Microsoft realized a while back that they don't need to monopolize a market to be highly profitable. They are giving space for the rest to come in. Let's see if Google or Apple have what it takes.

Eventually, people will realize that Microsoft is building what is going to be the best integrated computing ecosystem available to consumers. Neither Google nor Apple are able to give the breadth of integrated applications, devices and services that Microsoft now offers -- and Microsoft is actually increasing its lead. Me and my family are "all-in" with the MS ecosystem... and what I've seen is that the improvements being made to the ecosystem are accelerating at an amazing rate. I'm genuinely excited to see where we will be a year from now.

 

[chainsawcharlie]

If I understood this correctly. You get this Metro UI on the server versions of Windows 8 as well?!?!

 

[JGoat]

Stuka87[/url]":2lq7iyah]

JGoat[/url]":2lq7iyah]

Stuka87[/url]":2lq7iyah]So the author thinks that Windows users should suffer with a poorly implemented touch interface on the millions of PC's that DON'T HAVE TOUCH!

Not to mention all of us with large, multi-monitor setups have arguable the WORST user experience with Windows 8.

And then don't let me get into the horrible search setup in Windows 8. You can no longer hit the windows key, type want you want, arrow down, and hit enter. Now it requires mouse clicks to do anything.

Sounds like the editor of this article doesn't actually work on their PC outside of typing. Try hooking up three 24+ inch displays and use 15 or so programs at any given time while having to do regular searches for other programs/docs/etc. Then come back and say Windows 8 is fine.

You've got to be joking, Win 8 greatly improves the multi-monitor experience over Win 7.

I search without using my mouse all the time on Win 8, wtf are you talking about?

I'm all for people having different preferences, I don't care if people like Win 8, but it sounds like you've got no idea what you're talking about.

When performing a search, the Start Menu (Windows 7) displays results from all applicable categories in an easy to read list. In contrast, the Start Screen's (Windows 8) Apps, Settings, and Files categories only display one at a time and require the user to perform additional mousing and extra clicks to view all the results from a given search.

As for the displays, *WHY* am I forced to have a full screen menu to display a handful of items? The menu is a joke when using a large monitor.

I respect your opinion about the full screen menu, I think it's quick and easy, but I get that some find it disruptive. I find the multimon support to be fantastic, I like having the programs on each screen appear on that screens taskbar.

Regarding search, you can choose which section you want to search with these shortcuts:
Apps: Windows + Q
Settings: Windows +W
Files: Windows + F

Apps is the default, so I don't bother with that shortcut, really just use Windows button, or Windows+F typically.

 

[Cartigan]

Geminiman[/url]":2jwuhep1]
By doing this with Windows 8, everyone would have gotten a clear message. Desktop apps would have been relegated to legacy but would have worked perfectly within the metaphor of Modern UI and there wouldn't be 2 messages. Given that the VAST majority of legacy apps are opened full screen on the vast majority of computers, this would have eliminated all of the confusing in one shot.

What it would have done is pissed off multi-monitor users because it wouldn't have worked well for them. However, 8.1 fixes this with multiple apps allowed per screen with splitting and multiple apps open at the same time on multiple screens. This eliminates that argument.

Epic design failure.

Windows 8 has the same problem. Tech geeks don't like it. I personally get little value, because I spend my days in Visual Studio with 150 browser tabs and windows open because of my job. But I just got my wife a Surface Pro. SHE LOVES IT. Thinks it's the best computer she's ever used and just loves the Modern UI and how she doesn't have to worry about windows Explorer and where to store her files and native integration of skydrive and the only thing she uses that isn't metro is Word and Excel. Her only comment to me was to ask why there was a different background and the "silly bar" at the bottom when she opened Word. Heck, she doesn't even notice the faults with the Modern Email client and calendar that tech geeks do, and she LIVES in email, and calendars and One Note and her browser for her job. And yes, she had an IPAD and hated it because it was so limited, and LOVES the surface because "it just makes sense". Why? Because she's not a tech geek and doesn't use a computer like a tech geek, but still needs a real computer, and not a toy (i.e. Ipad/android pad).

Windows Surface is what the god damn OS is designed for. Give her a Keyboard and Mouse desktop and Windows 8, see what she says. It's like you are comparing square pegs and round pegs and declaring round pegs best because they fit in round holes while ignoring the fact that square pegs don't fit in round holes at all.
Also, how old is your wife? How has she avoided using computers for the past 20 years?

 

[Tridus]

Geminiman[/url]":1yifjmat]The problem isn't that they took off the start button. It's that they didn't go far enough. What they should have done (especially on the RT version) is remove the taskbar entirely. It serves absolutely no functional purpose at all and it causes FUD by having it there. You want to switch between apps? swipe from the left, or jamb your mouse to the left side of the screen. What to see all running apps? drag down while you do it. Want to see the time? Swipe from the right or jamb your mouse to the right of the screen.

You really want me to go around this office building and explain to everyone that if they want to change from their email to their browser, they need to start doing gestures with their mouse?

Yeah... no. "Swipe" is a bad way to navigate an interface with a mouse. The sooner Micrsooft remembers that, the easier this is going to be for everyone.

 

[SolidOak]

archtop[/url]":2ou8w6vk]

dooza[/url]":2ou8w6vk]What I'd really like to see implemented in Windows 8.1 is a two finger gesture that removes Metro on a desktop. I'd be very impressed if they did.

How about a one-finger gesture?

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[rolphus]

vl_oka[/url]":124717s8]

rolphus[/url]":124717s8]

vl_oka[/url]":124717s8]*Of course* everybody wants their Start *menu* back

Please don't assume everyone shares your opinion.

If that's the biggest mistake you found in my comment - and it must be otherwise I'm sure you'd have pointed out some other(s) - and it is, of course, a mistake (but really should be taken as a figure of speech) then that makes me happy.

I didn't particularly want to discuss your opinions versus mine (as they're different and will doubtless remain so): I just wanted to say it's not reasonable to assume every user has the same preferences you do.

 

[nibb]

Quixote2961[/url]":2s9myq2d]Peter, thanks again for writing a brave opinion piece that speaks the truth.

To all those who don't like the Metro interface -- either stick with Windows 7 or move to another OS. It's a simple choice. Just make your decision and stop trying to speak for people like me who fully support the direction MS is taking with Metro and Win8. Thanks in advance.

Microsoft is moving towards a cloud-centric computing model and Metro will be the gateway interface to cloud-based applications and services. Traditional desktop computing will still be supported - but it will be a legacy environment that will not see any further improvement in functionality. This is an OS _migration_, people. Probably the biggest OS migration in history. Kudos to MS for being brave enough to attempt it.

Developers will eventually adapt to this new model and redesign their apps to fit it. Those that don't will be replaced by others who do. Microsoft realized a while back that they don't need to monopolize a market to be highly profitable. They are giving space for the rest to come in. Let's see if Google or Apple have what it takes.

Eventually, people will realize that Microsoft is building what is going to be the best integrated computing ecosystem available to consumers. Neither Google nor Apple are able to give the breadth of integrated applications, devices and services that Microsoft now offers -- and Microsoft is actually increasing its lead. Me and my family are "all-in" with the MS ecosystem... and what I've seen is that the improvements being made to the ecosystem are accelerating at an amazing rate. I'm genuinely excited to see where we will be a year from now.

You have no idea what you are talking about. If users want a wallet garden app store, locked down OS they will use Apple, if they want a Cloud Centric OS they will use Google.

If Microsoft kills the only advantages it ever had, its dead. Its a dead company.

If you think Microsoft is moving into the right directions, then good luck, we will see Microsoft being replaced by Android on desktops or Linux very soon. Users will switch if they are not giving a choice, do not think for one minute this can´t happen. The minute Windows is not that flexible, free and choice OS, forced decisions on users and developers, its a dead product.

Microsoft already lost its corporate market with Windows 8, and Microsoft biggest advantage over every other company was always that they were strong in the corporate and business sector. Business are not upgrading, and unless Microsoft does it right again with the next products, Windows 9, Office, etc, to win them back, corporate users will change to alternatives.

So if they lose the consumer market as well, they are gone as a company.

 

[JavaChilly]

This is what happens when you try to make one OS service too different devices. Even if Apple ends up merging iOS with OS X, it's doing so gradually so it doesn't drive the car off a cliff before the engineers have attached the wings.

 

[Cartigan]

Quixote2961[/url]":2t72dyxm]Peter, thanks again for writing a brave opinion piece that speaks the truth.

To all those who don't like the Metro interface -- either stick with Windows 7 or move to another OS. It's a simple choice. Just make your decision and stop trying to speak for people like me who fully support the direction MS is taking with Metro and Win8. Thanks in advance.

Microsoft is moving towards a cloud-centric computing model and Metro will be the gateway interface to cloud-based applications and services. Traditional desktop computing will still be supported - but it will be a legacy environment that will not see any further improvement in functionality. This is an OS _migration_, people. Probably the biggest OS migration in history. Kudos to MS for being brave enough to attempt it.

Developers will eventually adapt to this new model and redesign their apps to fit it. Those that don't will be replaced by others who do. Microsoft realized a while back that they don't need to monopolize a market to be highly profitable. They are giving space for the rest to come in. Let's see if Google or Apple have what it takes.

Eventually, people will realize that Microsoft is building what is going to be the best integrated computing ecosystem available to consumers. Neither Google nor Apple are able to give the breadth of integrated applications, devices and services that Microsoft now offers -- and Microsoft is actually increasing its lead. Me and my family are "all-in" with the MS ecosystem... and what I've seen is that the improvements being made to the ecosystem are accelerating at an amazing rate. I'm genuinely excited to see where we will be a year from now.

Then Microsoft is run by morons and will die cold death. Metro will never work in the corporate space - it isn't designed for productivity. Full screen apps with no ability to navigate otherwise? Ok, great, now how am I going to compare two things side by side? How am I going to copy a piece of data from one program to another? Etc. etc etc.

In an environment where touch programs like Android are moving towards multitasking, you are giving Microsoft the thumbs up for giving multitasking the finger? Right. I hope you aren't Microsoft management.