Microsoft keeps insisting that it’s deeply committed to the quality of Windows 11
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Interesting that the things they mention fixing I haven't noticed. Like, I can't think of a single instance of seeing Copilot integrated into the OS and I also don't think I have widgets. I wonder if this is because I sign in with a local account?
However, Windows 11 has started shutting down unexpectedly almost every day this week after my last security update. And for a much longer period than that, performance has been so slow that it becomes hard to use at times.
However, Windows 11 has started shutting down unexpectedly almost every day this week after my last security update. And for a much longer period than that, performance has been so slow that it becomes hard to use at times.
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Gonna quibble a little bit.....
The problem isn't that Microsoft isn't prioritizing Windows, it's that it is prioritizing it too much. They keep doing stupid shit to try and get Windows to generate more revenue for Microsoft when the vast majority of people just want an operating system that does nothing but operating system things.
Nobody needs Copilot in their OS. Nobody needs advertising in their OS. Nobody needs their OS to take pictures of every little thing they do. And nobody needs their OS phoning home with who knows what it's picked up.
Yet somehow Microsoft has never really understood any of this.
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Thanks Microsoft for your deep commitment to the quality of Windows 11.
I look forward to the:
I might even enjoy using it.
I look forward to the:
- Option to permanently disable CoPilot in all its evil lurking places.
- Permanently disable all MS advertising.
- Delivery of an operating system with no bloatware. A user selectable list of programs to preinstall would be ok.
- Universal Settings app which covers all settings in a unified interface style and doesn’t eject me back to the antiquated control panel when it all gets too hard.
- Removal of all prompts to use MS Edge when I have already chosen another preferred browser.
- Ability to set a preferred search method so I never have to see the word ‘Bing’ on my screen.
- Absence of any increase my MS365 subscription to include unwanted AI features without my consent (that was my final straw).
- Ability to run updates without a restart and without killing my power save features to run an update when I really need the computer to stay charged (travelling etc)
- Ability to choose where I want to save files without repeated prompts to use OneDrive.
I might even enjoy using it.
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MilanKraft
Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
Your precise, cutting commentary is to be commended, sir!
To be fair, we've been on the "...sure, Microsoft's latest system / cloud / whatever upgrade is a buggy, vulnerable, cluttered mess with useful settings and options buried in places nobody should have to look, but we have to use it because... everyone uses it..." train, arguably since the days of Windows 3.1. The level of Windows-related adoption over the years, no matter how bad or frustrating it got at times, is as much a study in "stupid things humans do even though they know they're stupid" as it is a study in technology advacement (or not).
Obviously, Windows 10 especially and early days of Windows 11 (once everyone figured out how to shut off all the Cortana crap that no one asked for), are MUCH better experiences than 95, 98, 2000, et al... but in terms of Microsoft gonna Microsoft and people just going along with it... we've been here for a long time. It was just a less painful version of the commute than earlier versions...
...or in summary, "what that guy ↓↓↓ said..."
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Windows 11 is the best thing to come out of Microsoft. Pushed me to Linux full time. A much better experience overall even if some important apps aren't available.
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100%. The problem for Microsoft is that the world's changed. Gabe Newell slipped them one hell of a sucker punch with SteamOS which also led to Proton. All of a sudden, the gamer crowd that supported the Windows consumer market is showing serious stress fractures. And if the gamers that make up family tech support go to Linux, their families aren't too far behind.
Which just leaves us with our bosses shoving Windows down our throats.
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I've been primarily a Windows Admin for 20+ years. Cut my teeth on NT 4.0 back in the day. That's 30 years of Windows for those keeping track. Windows 7 and 10 were two of the best OS's Microsoft has put out (though far from perfect). XP, Vista and 8 were awful, but pale in comparison to just how bad 11 is. Out of the box it's not an OS...it's an advertising platform.
I only recently returned to workstation work after years of being mostly server side. It takes hours to get 11 prepped and ready for users. And don't even get me started on the "Classic" vs "New" Outlook situation
. I got fed up early with 11 and purged all the Windows laptops and desktops from my home network and switched to Macs. When the professional workforce supporting your products don't even want to use them during their non-working hours...there is a problem.
My biggest complaint is how every part of the OS has become more and more incoherent for professionals trying to use or support it. Remember back where there was a big push to move from Control Panel to Settings? How are we coming on that? Oh right, it's 2026 and configuration options are still spread out over hell's half acre. Want to create a shortcut? Get ready to click half a dozen times instead of twice. Meanwhile I can hand a mac to someone who hasn't touched an apple product in 20 years and for the most part they'll recognize the OS. More than anything Microsoft needs to stop chasing every new shiny object when it comes to the UI and prioritize consistency. If basic functionality stays the same from version to the next fine. But 11 has shit all over that idea at pretty much every turn (the centered start menu is the dumbest thing since BOB and I'll die on that hill).
I only recently returned to workstation work after years of being mostly server side. It takes hours to get 11 prepped and ready for users. And don't even get me started on the "Classic" vs "New" Outlook situation
. I got fed up early with 11 and purged all the Windows laptops and desktops from my home network and switched to Macs. When the professional workforce supporting your products don't even want to use them during their non-working hours...there is a problem. My biggest complaint is how every part of the OS has become more and more incoherent for professionals trying to use or support it. Remember back where there was a big push to move from Control Panel to Settings? How are we coming on that? Oh right, it's 2026 and configuration options are still spread out over hell's half acre. Want to create a shortcut? Get ready to click half a dozen times instead of twice
. Meanwhile I can hand a mac to someone who hasn't touched an apple product in 20 years and for the most part they'll recognize the OS. More than anything Microsoft needs to stop chasing every new shiny object when it comes to the UI and prioritize consistency. If basic functionality stays the same from version to the next fine. But 11 has shit all over that idea at pretty much every turn (the centered start menu is the dumbest thing since BOB and I'll die on that hill).
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This at least appears to be coming with Windows Hotpatch. I suspect it will bring its own challenges, and right now I think you can only do it with Intune-managed devices, but I haven’t researched it much. Although I will have to because MS is making it the default patch method in May.
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It took them 10 or 15 years to get rid of most of the Vista UI. They will not work a miracle here on an Operating System that is not even in their top two most valuable businesses and which has been mainly in decline for the last decade. Windows is a legacy product in most every way other than for high end gaming PCs. I have a hard time believing that talented young developers who work at Microsoft are fighting with each other to get to work on the Windows project. They will probably leave all of the work to the creative powers of a Copilot spin trained on the negativity and support articles on the web from Microsoft’s online support boards (have you ever read how bad those are?).
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MilanKraft
Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
Not to get too Battlefronty but 100% agreed on the bolded part. What frustrates the hell out of me is Microsoft's inability to simplify the amount and kind of settings (and the amount they get buried for no apparent UI design reason).... along with the constant churn of security vulernabilities and updates. It's what prevented me from becoming a two OS guy when Windows 10 had matured and stabilized. Even the best of what MS could muster, was still just arbitrarily complicated in places. It is amazing to me that a company with such deep pockets and basically unlimited human resources, has not figured out — after all this time — how to design a simple, accessible UI that mostly persists from generation to generation.I've been primarily a Windows Admin for 20+ years. Cut my teeth on NT 4.0 back in the day. That's 30 years of Windows for those keeping track. [snip]
My biggest complaint is how every part of the OS has become more and more incoherent for professionals trying to use or support it. Remember back where there was a big push to move from Control Panel to Settings? How are we coming on that? Oh right, it's 2026 and configuration options are still spread out over hell's half acre. Want to create a shortcut? Get ready to click half a dozen times instead of twice
Obviously some things will change and move no matter what platform you use, but damn if MS doesn't take the frustration cake. (In fairness, Apple has occasionally been guilty as well, albeit to a much less painful degree, which is why the bolded still rings true. They're more prone to periodic, stupid Marketing-driven (that's probably redundant), aesthetic shit like Liquid Glass most recently or skumorphics (sp) back in the day, than they are to burying multiple important settings 3 layers deep in dialog boxen.)
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I finally gave up on Windows 11 late last year and moved to Debian on both my laptop and workstation. Steam runs all the games I want to play, LibreOffice works great, and I have a couple of Win11 VMs I use specifically for work-related tasks. I know this isn't a viable solution for a lot of people, but it's working for me and right now I don't see myself going back for the foreseeable future.
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One of the most humorous settings in Windows to me is Natural Scrolling. They did not even natively support that feature until a year or two ago and they do not call it something logical like “Inverted” or “Natural” scrolling. Instead it reads “Down motion scrolls down” and “Down motion scrolls up” which may make sense to people who have never used Natural Scrolling but makes no sense if you prefer Natural Scrolling. Their wording describes the action of the scroll bar and not of the content.
Then the Taskbar, my biggest complaint for it is that despite the fact that it has been around as it is today since Windows 95 it has never been improved for how it hides and appears if you prefer that it automatically hides (which I do prefer). On my Mac, or on Gnome, or on KDE you can hide Docks or Panels and they behave smoothly and not robotically. The Windows Taskbar is honestly something I despise. Especially when Microsoft decided that text boxes even belong on the thing.
Microsoft is very clumsy and have no clue what “Polish” means in software development.
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ReactOS gets almost no attention or mention in these threads.
I haven't checked on them in a while, but am wondering if anyone has tried using it as a desktop replacement, and how far you can go with it.
I haven't checked on them in a while, but am wondering if anyone has tried using it as a desktop replacement, and how far you can go with it.
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I question the thought that Microsoft customers are complaining because they "care deeply" – with a Windows hegemony in software development and business practice, it's more a matter of knowing you haven't got any choice. And that develops into a sense of desperation as you increasingly realise that changes are not targeting your needs, but merely exploiting the fact that you have nowhere else to go. Take the so-called "popularity" of Windows 10 for example – everyone I know still using that version hasn't moved because it means throwing away their existing equipment (that isn't compatible with 11).
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I have two computers, one is an aging desktop that I love and which is runnning W10 Pro. The other is a hated HP laptop, also running W10 but the home version. My intention is to air-gap the desktop and update the laptop to Linux so I can use the laptop to surf the internet and get email.
As noted in the article: "These are all nice-sounding promises, though the specifics will matter a lot—being 'more intentional' about Copilot, for example, still leaves room for Microsoft to intentionally force it into each and every one of Windows’ built-in apps."
M$'s spin-doctoring over the years combined with their outright lies and deceitful tactics has hardened most power users of their hated OS into being able to read right between the lines. I know that I did when I read paragraph six of the article which contained the first reference to Davuluri's "intentional" remark.
Davuluri's remark reminded me of another MS spin-doctoring in their privacy statement that "Your privacy is important to us". Important in what way? Asa right that must be respected or as an obstacle that must be overcome?
Screw Microsoft and their Big Brother AI nonsense along with their mandatory account. Eventually, I'm going to make the move entirely to Linux. I hope to live long enough to see Microsoft go the way of the dinosaurs.
As noted in the article: "These are all nice-sounding promises, though the specifics will matter a lot—being 'more intentional' about Copilot, for example, still leaves room for Microsoft to intentionally force it into each and every one of Windows’ built-in apps."
M$'s spin-doctoring over the years combined with their outright lies and deceitful tactics has hardened most power users of their hated OS into being able to read right between the lines. I know that I did when I read paragraph six of the article which contained the first reference to Davuluri's "intentional" remark.
Davuluri's remark reminded me of another MS spin-doctoring in their privacy statement that "Your privacy is important to us". Important in what way? Asa right that must be respected or as an obstacle that must be overcome?
Screw Microsoft and their Big Brother AI nonsense along with their mandatory account. Eventually, I'm going to make the move entirely to Linux. I hope to live long enough to see Microsoft go the way of the dinosaurs.
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The photo captions says side-mounting the Taskbar will be possible, but the text only mentions putting it at the top of the screen. I'm not holding my breath for being able to drop StartAllBack.
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I’m sorry but your examples are all backwards. If Microsoft was prioritizing Windows, they would not do any of those things. Back when they did prioritize windows the goal was always windows first, and many other Microsoft ambitions died so that windows could take top priority.
If the best interest of windows are being sacrificed for copilot, and they are, it’s a different problem.
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Yeah, right. It took Microsoft over 1-1/2 years to finally get the 24H2 version to install on my desktop (it was stuck at 23H2 for a long long time, and 24H2 would always back itself out).
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TBH 'natural' is only natural if you are already conditioned to that way of thinking, and so 'inverted' is the opposite of your conditioning. I honestly don't know which way is which (are Macs typically the opposite? I have no idea), but after a few minutes with a machine I manage to adjust to whichever way it wants to scroll. 'Down scrolls down' seems a much better way to describe it than deciding one way is 'natural'.
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Proton has done more for Windows compatibility in a couple of years than ReactOS has done it's entire 30 years. It is an interesting idea, but when you get outflanked that fast and that thoroughly, you're probably not doing it right.
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I guess it depends on how you view Microsoft's priorities. To me, it's very clear Microsoft views Windows as a revenue generator first and an OS second (or maybe even third).
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It is certainly interesting to watch as Microsoft are about to lose the techs that have supported them for decades by recommending hardware, helped their friends and family for years and years where as now, the recommendation is to either buy a Mac or get Linux installed, and with the Neo being available, the market is about to change as another round of older computers are about to be thrown away.
When the tech communities are no longer recommending Microsoft or Windows, where the same people are making purchasing decision at their work, that is when Microsoft should be worried in my opinion. Yes, it will take years, but the pebble has started to move.
A little more than a year ago i salvaged a bunch of desktops from an NGO that are working with refugees here in Norway. They had 8 older 3rd gen Intel machines and some newer laptops that were just piled up in a corner and left as broken/unusable.
I got 8GB or 16GB for them (when DDR3 was almost free) bought 240GB SSDs and installed Mint on them that i paid for myself as this NGO has no budget for any replacements and basically run on donations of both money and anything that might be usable for both them and any refugees they deal with.
The 26 people working there are the kind that would leave their VCR blinking at 12:00. Brilliant at their jobs, but absolutely no tech knowledge at all as it is not their core business whatsoever.
The pile of machines i fixed for them are now serving them well as both kiosks for refugees and for internal use, and i have yet to hear back at all with any issues. I gathered half of them and spent 20 minutes showing them how they worked, and they all understood and got right into it immediately. I did ask them to let me know if they got tech donations, and i would come and get it up and running for them for free as this pile wont be usable forever.
3 of them have asked me to get Mint on their own home computers which i did as well, also older hardware that struggled, and they are happy with basically using Firefox and Libreoffice on an operating system that gets out of the way and dont ask them for anything.
I am pretty sure if Microsoft had a focus on developing a core operating system that first of all would have a coherent UI and was not such a pain in the ass in using it, was lean on system resources and optimized without all the bullshit they have been doing since basically Windows 8, they would get that money back ten-fold by users subscribing to services as they would have earned their trust, but now i think that is too late for them as people are tired of being used and taken for granted.
When the tech communities are no longer recommending Microsoft or Windows, where the same people are making purchasing decision at their work, that is when Microsoft should be worried in my opinion. Yes, it will take years, but the pebble has started to move.
A little more than a year ago i salvaged a bunch of desktops from an NGO that are working with refugees here in Norway. They had 8 older 3rd gen Intel machines and some newer laptops that were just piled up in a corner and left as broken/unusable.
I got 8GB or 16GB for them (when DDR3 was almost free) bought 240GB SSDs and installed Mint on them that i paid for myself as this NGO has no budget for any replacements and basically run on donations of both money and anything that might be usable for both them and any refugees they deal with.
The 26 people working there are the kind that would leave their VCR blinking at 12:00. Brilliant at their jobs, but absolutely no tech knowledge at all as it is not their core business whatsoever.
The pile of machines i fixed for them are now serving them well as both kiosks for refugees and for internal use, and i have yet to hear back at all with any issues. I gathered half of them and spent 20 minutes showing them how they worked, and they all understood and got right into it immediately. I did ask them to let me know if they got tech donations, and i would come and get it up and running for them for free as this pile wont be usable forever.
3 of them have asked me to get Mint on their own home computers which i did as well, also older hardware that struggled, and they are happy with basically using Firefox and Libreoffice on an operating system that gets out of the way and dont ask them for anything.
I am pretty sure if Microsoft had a focus on developing a core operating system that first of all would have a coherent UI and was not such a pain in the ass in using it, was lean on system resources and optimized without all the bullshit they have been doing since basically Windows 8, they would get that money back ten-fold by users subscribing to services as they would have earned their trust, but now i think that is too late for them as people are tired of being used and taken for granted.
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My 8-year-old (with some subsequent internal upgrades) Windows desktop says it can't do Windows 11. I strongly suspect that I could tweak BIOS stuff to fix that, but I haven't bothered. Lots of reasons in the past, the biggest one being that I do NOT want to link it to a Microsoft account. Not worth listing the myriad other reasons. But MS recently added a new one. This whatever-the-name-that-I-forgot AI bit where you can allow AI to access Windows configuration stuff is a real kicker. Yes, optional now, but I know how "options" like that tend to turn into hard points in the future. Sounds like a huge new path for security problems. And they say I shouldn't stay on Windows 10 because it no longer gets security updates? I'm thinking that going to 11 sounds like more security problems instead of fewer. Typing this on my other desktop - a month-old Mac that finally replaced my 11-year-old one. Yes, Macs have plenty of problems as well, but I did break down and get a new one. A new Windows box is just a veto right now.
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IF (and that's a big if) Mirosoft is really committed to quality, they will be reading this: YOUR OS SUCKS. I think what you meant is you are committed to profit and high-pressure advertising. When I bought my laptop, I DID NOT WANT AN ADVERTISING MACHINE. FUCK OFF.
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2025 was the year of the Linux desktop for me, and thanks to proton and the fact that I don’t play the most demanding games anymore, I’m very happy with my move.
And to others point, the fact that windows became unabashedly adware is what drove me off.
And to others point, the fact that windows became unabashedly adware is what drove me off.
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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha - at myself for thinking decades ago that unix/linix was too complex
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Title:
"Microsoft keeps insisting that it’s deeply committed to the quality of Windows 11".
Yes; that is the problem.
"Microsoft keeps insisting that it’s deeply committed to the quality of Windows 11".
Yes; that is the problem.
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The first thing I’d want to see is a way to kill Copilot utterly and completely. He talks about ‘unnecessary entry points’. It is ALWAYS unnecessary. I want that SOB dead. (Yes I men Copilot’.) it is infinitely worse than Clippy.
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Our bosses (including those in the govt who are REALLY our bosses, however we voted) are locked solidly into the Microsoft system. Regardless of glitches and hitches and inability to demonstrate adequate security (see recent/ongoing issues with M365 and Azure). So losing a few gamers to Linux or even Mac won't be noticed by anybody at MS. Ditto families and other home users. I'm a Linux and Windows user, and it's convenient (and possible) to do that as long as I don't need to use one of those Windows-only specialized apps (I have a couple - don't need them often, but when I do there's no reasonable alternative).
Oh well ... and what's been going on with Onedrive lately (precisely the issue I've been having appeared on the 19th as a known issue with the most recent Win11 update: inability to sign in and connect, falsely blaming lack of network connectivity).
Edit: BTW, I got the email about all the Great Stuff mentioned in this article (and more!) - allegedly for Insiders but the last time I was an active Insider was back in the early Windows 10
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I run Open Shell for my (Win 7 like) Start Menu and ExplorerPatcher for a Windows 10 taskbar. Both have worked well for me.
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Retired now but did computer support for decades starting in the late ‘90s. For much of that time I was very open about it. “They pay me to fix Microsoft shit. I use the money to buy Macs because I don’t want to spend all my free time fixing Microsoft shit.”…
I only recently returned to workstation work after years of being mostly server side. It takes hours to get 11 prepped and ready for users. And don't even get me started on the "Classic" vs "New" Outlook situation
…
FWIW I went into another field when I got a new manager. This was during the Vista/Win 8 era but he was an absolute cultist for Microsoft. As far as he was concerned they made the absolute best OS, Office Suite, Database, Server OS, in the industry. Their stuff was “perfect”. He would get visibly angry if I said something against anything Microsoft did. So I told him to f-off and took a job in robotics.
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I thought the reason everyone was getting windows back then was because MS was charging OEMs more for a DOS only license than a DOS+Windows licence.
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Co-worker: "I bought a new laptop. The old one's too slow. Did you want it, or should I send it to e-waste?"
Me: "Sure. I can take a look at it."
Intel Core i3-2330M. 8Gb ram. Manufacture date: 2011.
FIFTEEN YEARS OLD.
Fifteen fucking years old.
Swapped HD for SSD, loaded Mint Mate. Added KDE desktop. Everything works.
Perfectly fine for surfing. Purrs quite nicely. Battery replacement is 35 bucks.
Is there anything really else to say about where MS has taken us all?
Me: "Sure. I can take a look at it."
Intel Core i3-2330M. 8Gb ram. Manufacture date: 2011.
FIFTEEN YEARS OLD.
Fifteen fucking years old.
Swapped HD for SSD, loaded Mint Mate. Added KDE desktop. Everything works.
Perfectly fine for surfing. Purrs quite nicely. Battery replacement is 35 bucks.
Is there anything really else to say about where MS has taken us all?
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Considering how fast Intel went to s**t, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft collapses within a few years. These things seem to happen faster than I would have expected, once they get started.
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If Microsoft collapse, that will be due to lack of trust. "Evig eies kun et dårlig rykte" which is a Norwegian saying which means "Forever owned is a bad reputation".
I have said it may times in these threads before - Windows 12 needs to come, and it has to be excellent. Do i think Microsoft can deliver it? Nope, i think they are too far gone, but they are also not alone in it. Apple seems to have gotten the message, and Linux is gaining new users every day now.
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Desktop notifications on Windows have always been dogshit (why do I need to manually dismiss them after handing whatever triggered the notification?), but incredibly Microsoft have managed to make them even worse. Just recently Windows has started regurgitating notifications which were triggered and dismissed several hours ago.
The general decline in quality started long before the AI fad, but while Microsoft have never been able to design anything that was not annoying, things generally worked, and I've never heard a good explanation for what changed. The company has been MBA-driven for god knows how long, so that's not the reason, at least by itself. Have all of the "old guard" left or been marginalized out?
The general decline in quality started long before the AI fad, but while Microsoft have never been able to design anything that was not annoying, things generally worked, and I've never heard a good explanation for what changed. The company has been MBA-driven for god knows how long, so that's not the reason, at least by itself. Have all of the "old guard" left or been marginalized out?
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"reduce unnecessary Copilot entry points"
MS is working to reduce the need to attach sharp nipple clamps when using Windows. Obviously a computer MUST have nipple clamps, how else would it work? Right?!
What a joke.
MS is working to reduce the need to attach sharp nipple clamps when using Windows. Obviously a computer MUST have nipple clamps, how else would it work? Right?!
What a joke.
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Revit, Navis Manage and Solidworks would be greater if they worked on a MacBook Pro M5 Max….. One can dream.
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