Michigan politicians want to ban Chinese-badged cars from even visiting the US
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So if I understand correctly, China could invest 16% of Ford, GM and others to get them out of the US car-business ?
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...and what stops these hypothetical PRC agents from putting the surveillance gear in a pelican case and driving across the border in a rental Ford?
It's not like a Chinese EV is going to have cutting-edge hyperspectral imagers and broad-spectrum RF recorders; they'll have the same COTS sensors that you can find in all kinds of gadgets.
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The true power of the free market is shown by using the government to save it from products made by a dramatically inferior socialist economy. This has nothing to do with surveillance. It has everything to do with being afraid Americans will realize how badly they're getting their assholes caved in by the awful quality:expense ratio of American vehicles compared to Chinese ones.
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Sad to see the (D) tags here. I'm used to the GQP sticking their heads in the sand and pretending the rest of the world isn't moving on but I guess it will be a bipartisan block to keep Americans from understanding why the US auto industry is going to implode in the next 10 years.
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So they’re banning iPhones, Androids, Fitbits, Strava, and teenagers next?
American carmakers need to level up their game again, just like the previous panic when Honda and Toyota innovated beyond the 70s land yachts Michigan was making.
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How are Michigan jobs on the line by simply allowing the cars to be driven in temporarily?
It's great that everyone in the federal government's views on China are based on massive xenophobia.
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Yeah China, you have to buy your surveillance from our private data overlords just like the NSA does, on the open market with "competition".
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“We’re gonna be aggressive here because Michigan jobs are on the line, but also so is national security."
Senator Slotkin, Michigan jobs would not be on the line if US car manufacturers built cars that were competitive with foreign made vehicles not just on price but also design, manufacturing quality and features. The US believes in the primacy of the free market - and do not bother with the old line about Chinese state subsidies, the US has done the same arguably done more for decades
Senator Slotkin, Michigan jobs would not be on the line if US car manufacturers built cars that were competitive with foreign made vehicles not just on price but also design, manufacturing quality and features. The US believes in the primacy of the free market - and do not bother with the old line about Chinese state subsidies, the US has done the same arguably done more for decades
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As if we need to give Canadian visitors more reasons not to come to the US and spend money here? Cross border tourism is generally thought to be a good thing among sane people, which seems to include few politicians lately. Facepalm!
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Here in Europe.
When I bought my BYD Dolphin, VW didn't have anything comparable available. Its equivalent car, the ID.3, was more expensive and technically inferior (NMC vs LFP batteries, no V2L, inferior infotainment, etc.). Below the ID.3, VW had nothing to compete with the BYD Dolphin Surf (a smaller, B-segment car, equivalent to the Polo, very common in Europe).
Today, VW has caught up with BYD. The new ID.3 Neo has a 58 kWh LFP battery (and an optional larger NMC one if you want it), a brand new and very efficient electric motor and good infotainment, as well as V2L. And they have also the new ID.Polo, a beautiful small car with both LFP and NMC batteries. Both cars are still slightly more expensive than BYD (the ID.Polo w.r.t. the Dolphin Surf expecially), but really most people are willing to pay some premium for a VW instead of a Chinese car; also, both the Polo LFP and the ID.3 Neo LFP have faster recharging than the equivalent BYDs.
Do we have tariffs here? Yes, but based on sound economic reasoning. They are calculated to offset the export subsidies that Chinese producers receive. I think it's about 20% for BYD, higher for SAIC and lower for Tesla cars made in China.
When I bought my BYD Dolphin, VW didn't have anything comparable available. Its equivalent car, the ID.3, was more expensive and technically inferior (NMC vs LFP batteries, no V2L, inferior infotainment, etc.). Below the ID.3, VW had nothing to compete with the BYD Dolphin Surf (a smaller, B-segment car, equivalent to the Polo, very common in Europe).
Today, VW has caught up with BYD. The new ID.3 Neo has a 58 kWh LFP battery (and an optional larger NMC one if you want it), a brand new and very efficient electric motor and good infotainment, as well as V2L. And they have also the new ID.Polo, a beautiful small car with both LFP and NMC batteries. Both cars are still slightly more expensive than BYD (the ID.Polo w.r.t. the Dolphin Surf expecially), but really most people are willing to pay some premium for a VW instead of a Chinese car; also, both the Polo LFP and the ID.3 Neo LFP have faster recharging than the equivalent BYDs.
Do we have tariffs here? Yes, but based on sound economic reasoning. They are calculated to offset the export subsidies that Chinese producers receive. I think it's about 20% for BYD, higher for SAIC and lower for Tesla cars made in China.
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News flash for all these politicians. Very likely that the connecting parts of US made cars are made in China. Going to ban those circuit boards like you did the China made routers? Doesn't really matter much security wise where most of the vehicle is made. Just the parts that phone home.
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Paranoia And Complete Cluelessness Act.
I sometimes think that if USAn politicians put as much effort into thinking about the effects of their policies as they put into inventing cutesy acronymic titles, the world would be a better place.
I sometimes think that if USAn politicians put as much effort into thinking about the effects of their policies as they put into inventing cutesy acronymic titles, the world would be a better place.
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Slotkin recently went to Canada with the same fearmongering BS after Canada signaled they'll buy ~50K Chinese cars. It didn't work.
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I wonder if the NSA has a contract with Flock banning them from selling data outside of the US?
Naaaaaaah, who am I kidding. Flock will sell to whoever has money, contracts and rules be damned.
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In general, that's what came to mind for me when I read the article. Could a car capture information considered sensitive? Sure. Is it the best way to do it? No. Is it the least suspicious way to do it? No. DoD training covers suspicious looking people including loitering. Can't imagine a Chinese EV idling outside an US Air Force base wouldn't look a little suspicious and not draw some ire.
This is just dumb grandstanding to the nth degree and it's really disappointing to see. If I were in Michigan, I'd be offended that these two think I'm dumb enough to be swayed by this malarkey that I'd heavily look toward their primary challengers.
What's also worse is... don't we have other problems in this country that need attention over BS like this?
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Better to be seen doing "something" than actually have to do something. America is totally cooked when it comes to EVs. Even if American automakers could be bothered to make competitive EVs, the battery tech is Chinese.
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I'd just like to note I'd literally hand deliver China my DNA and browser history from the last 30 years if it would allow me buy a Lexus-quality EV with a 600 mile range for $22,000. Idgaf if China has my information. It's this government that's far more likely to murder me at a protest.
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I grew up in a Detroit suburb in the 1950s and early 60s. In the 1970s and 80s, Japanese cars, e.g. Datsun, were eating Detroit's lunch on quality and driveability. Same chauvinism then, but without legislative support.
Eventually, Detroit quit trying to hang more and more emission dongles on carburetors and came up with engines which would develop power when cold, and not diesel backwards when shut off hot.
What I find as a weird component to that mess is that Chevrolet introduced a fuel-injected gasoline engine in 1957, but the Detroiters did not follow up until carburetors became completely impossible.
With regard to build quality, every time my parents, neighbors, or family bought new Detroit iron, I spent hours taking the thing apart to refit doors, hoods, and trunk lids and adjust latches. I also found and tightend loose and missing screws and bolts. In 1980, I bought my first Japanese car, a Datsun 310GX. I went at it in my usual way and found there was nothing to do except modify the driver's seat mounting to go all the way back to the back seat.
Edit: typo
Eventually, Detroit quit trying to hang more and more emission dongles on carburetors and came up with engines which would develop power when cold, and not diesel backwards when shut off hot.
What I find as a weird component to that mess is that Chevrolet introduced a fuel-injected gasoline engine in 1957, but the Detroiters did not follow up until carburetors became completely impossible.
With regard to build quality, every time my parents, neighbors, or family bought new Detroit iron, I spent hours taking the thing apart to refit doors, hoods, and trunk lids and adjust latches. I also found and tightend loose and missing screws and bolts. In 1980, I bought my first Japanese car, a Datsun 310GX. I went at it in my usual way and found there was nothing to do except modify the driver's seat mounting to go all the way back to the back seat.
Edit: typo
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“We’re gonna be aggressive here because Michigan jobs are on the line, but also so is national security."
I am getting tired of the Boys that Cry National Security as if that is a panacea of justification.
I am getting tired of the Boys that Cry National Security as if that is a panacea of justification.
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I think the point is that surveillance gear would be found/seized by security checkpoint at said airbase before entry onto the base.
The vehicle having integrated 360 degree cameras would not.
That said, this could apply to any vehicle with said sensor suite.
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Those friendly Canadian visitors might have a conversation about how affordable their EV was to purchase and a few Americans might decide that they want one too?
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I have a wacky idea for Detroit
If you don't want Chinese cars in the US, how about building cars that are better than Chinese cars?
Free market used to mean beating your competitors because you were better for the customer, not using laws to limit your competition.
If you don't want Chinese cars in the US, how about building cars that are better than Chinese cars?
Free market used to mean beating your competitors because you were better for the customer, not using laws to limit your competition.
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If you want a tangible means of understanding just how far ahead China is, go to your local Asian food store. If you are lucky, they will stock some ice cream in the frozen section. You may notice some ice creams that look exactly like fruits with nice details. They also taste like the fruits they look like. Be warned, if you try these fruits you will become jaded of scooping the slop from the tub…
Even Chinas ice cream is 50 years ahead of American ice cream technology.
Even Chinas ice cream is 50 years ahead of American ice cream technology.
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The driver of a car doesn't need to be an agent if the car itself is phoning home to the adversary. If the US decided to tell my car to start taking pictures as soon as I got close to a goose nest, I'd be none the wiser and yet I'd be leaking details of how many goslings were were raising in our longstanding war against US airliners.
China, as noted in the story, had equivalent worries a while back regarding Tesla (the only car company that they didn't have as a joint venture with a local company).
All that said, the extremely wide net that these Michigan politicians are casting makes it clear the national security angle is just cover for protectionism. China banned the cars from sensitive locations, not from literally the entire country.
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"GET THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF OUR FREE MARKETS!!!!
EXCEPT WHEN WE CAN'T COMPETE!!!"
EXCEPT WHEN WE CAN'T COMPETE!!!"
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