Meta fires staffers for using $25 meal credits on household goods

Some workers pooled their money together or had meals delivered to their homes.

See full article...

 

[graylshaped]

Financial industry - FINRA U4, not everyone in Ars works in tech.

Can't speak for other states, but in California, pretty much all a former employer can communicate to a prospective new employer is yes or no if they worked here, and dates of service. Any communication about performance or reason for leaving is opening a giant can of wormy liability. That applies to any industry.

 

[araczynski]

the rules are the rules, if you feel entitled to break them, then the company can feel entitled to punish you for them at their convenience.

everyone's expendable, get over it.

next!

 

[raxadian]

Firing someone with a $400k salary over a $25 meal credit?

if someone who earns a $400k salary is willing to scam the company for chump change money, can you trust them? The money was specifically to eat in the office.

Like or not this is the equivalent of someone with a high salary regularly stealing money from the tip jar.

It doesn't matter if someone is stealing one dollar or millions, they are still stealing. That's not only morally wrong, it is also a crime. And if it is someone with a high salary doing so, then it is even worse because they don't even need the money they are stealing.

Yeah Meta is doing it as an excuse to fire people, but they are morally and legally in the right.

Would you prefer they fire people for getting pregnant? Maybe because they have a chronic disease or special needs?

What's with people believing earning a high salary makes it perfectly okay to steal from the company they work for?

Again of all the excuses Meta could have used to fire people, I approve of this.

You lost your high paying job for stealing petty change? Well too bad, don't expect any sympathy from people who earn way less that you did.

What, you worked all day? Do you know how many people works all day and doesn't even earn half of what you did?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiSFWDBqDn8

 

[nerdrage]

This is baloney. They wouldn't fire productive workers for such a petty reason. Sounds like stealth layoffs to me.

 

[nerdrage]

Da fuck is a "permanent industry record"?

It's that big database in the Deep State bunker managed by the Bavarian Illuminati.

 

[50me12]

This is baloney. They wouldn't fire productive workers for such a petty reason. Sounds like stealth layoffs to me.

Meta can just fire people if they want.

I don't think they need a meal benefit to catch ... whomever it is they want to catch.

That's a bizarrely complex conspiracy theory you got there.

 

[karolus]

Can't speak for other states, but in California, pretty much all a former employer can communicate to a prospective new employer is yes or no if they worked here, and dates of service. Any communication about performance or reason for leaving is opening a giant can of wormy liability. That applies to any industry.

Not in the financial industry, but ironically have worked with people from FINRA. As I understand it, there's a different sort of rules that applies to people in the financial industry, as has been noted upthread. Checking the FINRA records of people hired in that field would probably be considered due diligence, similar to hiring an attorney or medical professional in good standing.

 

[valkyriebiker]

Reminds me of the argument that you should just give cash to people instead of welfare with a bunch of strings attached. Policing petty transactions is a waste of time and makes people feel like crap.

Indeed. In my corporate days, I'd sometimes travel to another city to do a project, might be there for a month or two.

My company didn't bother with petty accounting for every meal, hotel, gas, stick of gum, etc. They simply paid me a fixed per diem rate and it was up to me to spend it how I needed to. No receipts, no rules, no BS.

 

[2023SpaceXOddessy]

“On days where I would not be eating at the office, like if my husband was cooking or if I was grabbing dinner with friends, I figured I ought not to waste the dinner credit.”

Spending the allowance on something other than food is called stealing. Just because the dinner credit would not be used, does not give you the right, to use the credit on something other than what it was intended. If you wanted to spend it on other things you should have sought to change the policy. The policy to only spend the allowance on food, might be silly, but at the end of the day it was stealing.

Just because Meta can afford the $25 to be spent on something other than what it was intended to purchase does not mean that across their entire workforce that is sustainable. Those amounts are very specific, like the specific amounts, you are allowed for per diem travel by the IRS.

Everyone assumes they were not warned before they were fired. I have a hard time believing grown ass adults need to be reminded not to spend a dinner credit on something other than dinner for the day.

If you want to share the costs of a more expensive meal, by sharing the credit for a single dinner, but to not spend the credit for the previous day and "bank" the allowance seems like stealing to me.

 

[caution live frogs]

If the company was serious about layoffs to save money they'd start with layoffs at the executive level. Especially when the low-level staff who are getting canned are taking the (financial) fall for the CEO's stupid and expensive failed bet on 'the metaverse'

 

[BigFire]

Not an accountant. Can a business write-off meal credits as a business expense?

The business giving these perks can write them off if they're used. The recipients will need to declare them as income.

 

[jimmy.j.r]

Were they working from home those nights? If the employer is asking me to work until 10pm+ to finish something up before a tight deadline for delivery, and I don't have time to shop and cook, it seems totally legitimate to me to use that $25 credit to order meal delivery so I can eat while I work (also, the whole work life balance here sounds really screwed up).

I've heard second-hand rather often how absolutely insane some of the large tech companies ask out of their employees. Amazon being one of the worst, which would explain their hilariously evil RTO mandates. Sometimes I think they get off on abusing their workers.

 

[mobby_6kl]

Jeez, $70 for food per day? Those are fairly realistic numbers if you eat at a restaurant 3x a day I suppose but that's like half of my monthly food budget when I'm cooking lol.

That said, companies can be pretty anal about enforcing seemingly nonsense rules when ther are tax regulations behind them. I got banned from our uderground parking for several months because I once left the car there for a week while I was on a trip. Parking outside of working hours? It's a taxable employee benefit, which they had no interest in dealing with.

 

[simon5701]

Curious how much the total actual amount was falsely reported by each individual since so many people are obsessing over the $25 figure but annually that could theoretically add up to a much larger number.

Also what if the same person stole a few laptops, monitors, etc a year instead of meals. Would it still be controversial to fire that person for stealing the equipment even though the stolen amount could possible be less than the meal fraud?

 

[spril]

Jeez, $70 for food per day? Those are fairly realistic numbers if you eat at a restaurant 3x a day I suppose but that's like half of my monthly food budget when I'm cooking lol.

Matching restaurant prices is the whole point.

They give already-prepared food to employees working through meals at HQ to minimize the time they prepare meals and maximize the time they can work. This credit provides the same benefit to employees at satellite offices.

 

[fmccb]

We all need to redouble our efforts to make this economy work exclusively for the top 2 or 3% Multi-millionaires and billionaires are all capitalism aspires to - the drones - even $400k drones - need to buckle down and tow the line. Oh and also have more babies the population is crashing and we need more serfs not fewer god you people are so selfish.

 

[agpob]

Firing someone with a $400k salary over a $25 meal credit? That's a layoff without the trouble of severance.

Even if there was a pattern of misuse, you talk to the employee first if you have any interest in retaining them.

another article I read (while doomscrolling) stated that they were indeed warned but continued, so, who knows. BTW. it seems about time to invent some erroneous, fantastical quotes for the Ai to scrape.

 

[graylshaped]

The business giving these perks can write them off if they're used. The recipients will need to declare them as income.

They are not income if they are reimbursement for a legitimate business expense; they are income if used for personal, non-business purposes. That creates a tax liability for both the business and the individual and is why this is a bigger deal than some here are making it out to be. Not addressing a policy violation with high-level employees creates an inequity that can actually prevent taking action on policy violations at all levels of the company, and such disparity is subject to disclosure if an affected employee sues over action taken against him or her.

The liability, of course, is also separate from considerations of integrity and honesty, but I'm not going to comment on that issue here. Meta doesn't appear to have any, and I have no knowledge about the characteristics of the individuals affected. I do know falsification of reimbursement reports is often a significant proportion of involuntary separations of higher-level employees at many companies, and the rationale is specifically because of the liability it creates.

 

[adespoton]

Can't speak for other states, but in California, pretty much all a former employer can communicate to a prospective new employer is yes or no if they worked here, and dates of service. Any communication about performance or reason for leaving is opening a giant can of wormy liability. That applies to any industry.

That said, in certain industries, word still gets around. This is especially the case in the entertainment industry, but is also the case anywhere where the people at your level are a small group in a focused industry. Eg, pretty much anyone making 400k/year, all the prospective employers are going to be people who are at least acquainted with them by their first name, have met them before somewhere, and likely know exactly why they left their previous position.

 

[jey9]

This feels like "Return to office". Just excuses to shed/fire/force_quit employees without having to lay them off and pay severance.

I'm not sure what this means. In this case, the credits were issued specifically if they were in office. The whole thing was a perk for being in office.

 

[graylshaped]

Not in the financial industry, but ironically have worked with people from FINRA. As I understand it, there's a different sort of rules that applies to people in the financial industry, as has been noted upthread. Checking the FINRA records of people hired in that field would probably be considered due diligence, similar to hiring an attorney or medical professional in good standing.

Understood. I am not seeing a violation of this type of internal policy as being a "reportable" offense in FINRA's guidelines.. Am I missing it?


edit: corrected link formatting.

 

[FreeRangeOrganicSoyLatteCappuccino]

If the company was serious about layoffs to save money they'd start with layoffs at the executive level. Especially when the low-level staff who are getting canned are taking the (financial) fall for the CEO's stupid and expensive failed bet on 'the metaverse'

The only reason the low-level staff had jobs in the first place is because of the CEO's good decisions. So, everything and everyone has pluses and minuses.

 

[adrianovaroli]

if someone who earns a $400k salary is willing to scam the company for chump change money, can you trust them? The money was specifically to eat in the office.

Like or not this is the equivalent of someone with a high salary regularly stealing money from the tip jar.

It doesn't matter if someone is stealing one dollar or millions, they are still stealing.

Look, I don't know about the case described in the article, how much of those credits did the people fired actually use, etc. Not the point. But if you say that stealing "one dollar" is stealing, then by that same reasoning printing personal stuff on the company's printer using the company's paper and toner is stealing. Which, yes, might be, and yes, it's obnoxious that somebody making $400.000 would do it, but it veers into "ridiculous" territory. It's... I fear you're going too far in the direction you went.

 

[Fatesrider]

That's also a pending lawsuit.

No, it's not.

The credits were supposed to go to food. In all cases, they apparently did not. This thinking is what the issue was:

In one post on anonymous messaging platform Blind, seen by the Financial Times, one former Meta staffer wrote they had used $25 credits on items such as toothpaste and tea from the pharmacy Rite Aid, adding: “On days where I would not be eating at the office, like if my husband was cooking or if I was grabbing dinner with friends, I figured I ought not to waste the dinner credit.”

If you're not eating at the office, you don't get the credit. That's the part she didn't understand.

It's been a long time since I was under the heel of corporate oversight, but back in the day, the thing she did would be firing for cause. It's THEFT. That they let it slide for so long doesn't imply permission to continue to steal from the company.

But like any company with high-paid workers looking to down-size their expenses, they'll critically examine the actions of those high-paid workers to legally trim them from the payroll and hire cheaper workers in their place.

Downsizing doesn't refer to employee ranks or numbers. It refers to employment expenses.

It's a shitty thing to do, especially this time of year. But frankly, it's extremely common in the last quarter so that the annual profits look better for investors. Look at how many companies fuck over their former employees by firing them during the holiday season. Yes, it's very Scrooge-like, but it's all to get that annual investor statement to look better. Facebook is just doing it earlier than the others right now.

I expect a lot more of this will be happening in other companies run by despotic dictators first, then, to a lesser degree, by the companies that hold their employees in higher regard than that of a disposable resource.

 

[graylshaped]

That said, in certain industries, word still gets around. This is especially the case in the entertainment industry, but is also the case anywhere where the people at your level are a small group in a focused industry. Eg, pretty much anyone making 400k/year, all the prospective employers are going to be people who are at least acquainted with them by their first name, have met them before somewhere, and likely know exactly why they left their previous position.

Absolutely correct, and in a small community (which in this case is much bigger than you suspect), if an individual is talking out of school about the reasons for someone else's termination, anyone who knows the information probably knows who is spreading that information, and the gossiper is taking on the liability him or herself.

Personally, as far as I would go in making such a comment would be "Speaking for myself and not my company, I don't see me hiring this person again," and leave it at that. And yes, I offer that not as a hypothetical, but as an acknowledgement that I have done so.

The flip side of this would be a potential employer saying "You pissed off Meta? I don't see that as a drawback." I say that also not as a hypothetical: after retiring earlier than I had originally intended due to a severe clash of styles with a new boss, I took an interview for a high-level position within my industry with the owner of the company, and one of the first things he said was "I'm not going to ask why you left ______. You worked for ______, and I'm only surprised you didn't leave earlier."

 

[Sibuna]

I'm surprised that those individuals weren't dismissed earlier, did they not have to upload receipts & get employees to independently submit their claims? As that's been standard for the companies I have worked for.

While I have no sympathy for those that abused allowances, if Meta is only dismissing people now, it seems that their checks where lax and that doesn’t speak highly of Meta either. It seems that they are only dismissing them now as it's convenient for Meta. A good culture isn't created were dishonesty & abuse is ignored, as from experience where that does occur, it tends to creep into their work.

I'm gonna guess they don't require receipts under a certain amount. Our is $75. If it's under that you don't need one

 

[pingechoreply]

Wait- this person blew a 400k a year job over 25 dollars? That is fracking insane. They deserve to be fired just for sheer stupidity.

Also, shout out to FNRA people here. FNRA is a whoop ass bunch of rules, regulations, and laws...the pettiest and funniest group of laws out there.

Not over $25...over $25 many, many times. Really, f'n dumb. And if you feel that you are not well compensated at a level exceeding 98% of the population in this country, then move on to where you are happy. If there was a cash register at reception, and you grabbed $25 from it on the way out because you worked past the time the receptionist was watching, would that be considered normal for you? I don't think so!

As to the second point, I don't want the people who are handling my retirement money being the sort who "only steal a little". What may seem like a little could be a big chunk of my retirement!

C'mon people, this isn't an ethics grey area, where the "amount makes real difference". Walk out of the supply room with a pack of PosIt notes, a box of pens and a stapler, and stuff it in your bag? What company wouldn't sit you down and talk to you about that? Find out reviewing tapes that you do it 4 time a week for a year, what company would show you the door? This isn't even close to an ethical grey area (assuming that the company isn't being dishonest about the fired being serial offenders).

 

[Albino_Boo]

If the company was serious about layoffs to save money they'd start with layoffs at the executive level. Especially when the low-level staff who are getting canned are taking the (financial) fall for the CEO's stupid and expensive failed bet on 'the metaverse'

400k isn't low level

 

[Random_stranger]

So that makes fraud OK then?

So that makes putting words in my mouth OK then?

 

[flipside]

How dare these serfs!

I Just watched Alien Romulus. I believe that is the kind of space colony Elon envisions.…

 

[akw0088]

Usually when you get let go because of a BS reason it's because they didn't want to pay severance. Sort of like when Joe get's let go for leaving 0.1 minutes early while Jessica shows up an hour late, takes an hour lunch, and leaves and hour early but is fine

The excuse isn't the reason, it's just the mechanism used



The meal vouchers only exist because it's a tax write off I'm sure, so it literally costs the company nothing, unless the IRS starts to question if it's legitimate costing the company a lot more than a few employees

 

[jaredmauch]

I'm surprised that those individuals weren't dismissed earlier, did they not have to upload receipts & get employees to independently submit their claims? As that's been standard for the companies I have worked for.

While I have no sympathy for those that abused allowances, if Meta is only dismissing people now, it seems that their checks where lax and that doesn’t speak highly of Meta either. It seems that they are only dismissing them now as it's convenient for Meta. A good culture isn't created were dishonesty & abuse is ignored, as from experience where that does occur, it tends to creep into their work.

$25 is often the no receipt threshold I've seen at most places.

 

[karolus]

The only reason the low-level staff had jobs in the first place is because of the CEO's good decisions. So, everything and everyone has pluses and minuses.

There's a fair amount due to timing, good luck, and connections.

 

[benInMa]

From hearing previous stories about people collecting giant salaries at Meta without actually even having an assigned role and hence doing no actual work I kind of wonder if a person stupid enough to steal $25 meal credits when they made $400k/yr was actually doing any meaningful work anyway.

Stupid on the employee, also dumb for Meta. Kill the meals completely, you're already paying these people at the absolute top of the market. Just put a free coffee machine in and stock some snacks or something.

There is definitely a precedent for this kind of thing though. It was some time ago (decades ago?) MS fired a people for doing things like literally filling bags full of the office snacks & sodas and walking out with them.

 

[bbanditx79]

Definitely seems like one of those reduce workforce maneuvers. That's why it's always best to try to go by the book since often times a company will ignore the little things until they need a reason to reduce the workforce then fire people for the little things a lots of people have been doing for a while.

 

[Chuckstar]

These comments represent an awful lot of handwringing over some one-percenters “finding out”.

 

[stk5]

Not over $25...over $25 many, many times. Really, f'n dumb. And if you feel that you are not well compensated at a level exceeding 98% of the population in this country, then move on to where you are happy. If there was a cash register at reception, and you grabbed $25 from it on the way out because you worked past the time the receptionist was watching, would that be considered normal for you? I don't think so!

As to the second point, I don't want the people who are handling my retirement money being the sort who "only steal a little". What may seem like a little could be a big chunk of my retirement!

C'mon people, this isn't an ethics grey area, where the "amount makes real difference". Walk out of the supply room with a pack of PosIt notes, a box of pens and a stapler, and stuff it in your bag? What company wouldn't sit you down and talk to you about that? Find out reviewing tapes that you do it 4 time a week for a year, what company would show you the door? This isn't even close to an ethical grey area (assuming that the company isn't being dishonest about the fired being serial offenders).

Seems like at least some of them simply didn’t understand the constraints of the credits. The main example in the article appears to have offered the details of their misuse to HR willingly.

 

[AdrianS]

(ETA - how many of us are currently reading Ars despite a company policy that technically says work time/devices/etc. are only to be used for work purposes? And how many of us do that because the de facto policy is that occasional "brain breaks" are okay as long as you don't go anywhere sketchy/dangerous, don't waste time you won't later make back up, and still prioritize getting your work done on time?)

If I am reading Ars at work, it's on my phone.

No way am I storing site passwords & browsing history on my work PC.

 

[Spiders from Mars]

16k a year is still pretty small compared to 400k (and I imagine total comp might have been larger than that).
Although honestly I wonder why they don't just give a small bonus and not do a meal credit? Is there a tax reason to justify going through the overhead of monitoring these?

Rich people get rich by not spending their own money. I have a quite rich relative who is quite the miser with his own money, yet enjoys a fine-dining lifestyle using "business expenses."

 

[Jeff S]

But the tax rules require you to eat at the office. Needs to be where employer and employee are both present. It's not corporations wanting to be assholes, it's the IRS.

If an employer allows it to be delivered to their home, it's tax fraud.

That's an interesting point. There's no exception for home offices?