Meta fires staffers for using $25 meal credits on household goods

Some workers pooled their money together or had meals delivered to their homes.

See full article...

 

[SPCagigas]

16k a year is still pretty small compared to 400k (and I imagine total comp might have been larger than that).
Although honestly I wonder why they don't just give a small bonus and not do a meal credit? Is there a tax reason to justify going through the overhead of monitoring these?

Not an accountant. Can a business write-off meal credits as a business expense?

 

[simon5701]

This is like giving someone money to Amazon and then being mad they don't order only groceries with it. If the money is only supposed to used for food, then maybe you should set it up so they can only order food.

edit: for those bringing up tax stuff. That doesn't add up. The money is going to uber eats who pays the store. It would all still be shown as paid to uber eats.

Maybe if that someone was a child. Otherwise it's fully expected you follow the condition of the perks. This is pretty common in most corporate benefits.

For the want of 25 dollars, her 400k kingdom was lost...so sad...

Multiple $25 meals per day for the whole year is a significant chunk of money even for someone making $400k a year. Someone above calculated it to be about $16,000 annually. That's $4k for someone making $100k a year and I've seen people get fired for stealing less than $4k.

 

[Speakertoanimals]

" But I read online that eating acne pads and drinking laundry detergent would prevent COVID...."

This sounds like a Tiktok challenge, which probably should be another fire-able offense.

 

[LiamWestray]

Firing someone with a $400k salary over a $25 meal credit? That's a layoff without the trouble of severance.

Even if there was a pattern of misuse, you talk to the employee first if you have any interest in retaining them.

Dude, no. You make an example of ethical abuses. You do not create a caste system where stealing is permitted as long as you're a millionaire with a high base salary.

This is literally fraud.

I want to know these people are willing to steal and defraud despite being paid handsomely -- so I never hire them.

 

[Mechjaz]

A person using one meal credit a year almost certainly counts as de minimis. Someone using 2 or credits per day, for every working day of the year, almost certainly would NOT fall under that rule.

Yeah, I said as much in my post, the first sentence. The only sentence. So... We agree.

However, frequency is not the issue. If your employer pays for your on site parking every day of the month, that can still be a de minimis benefit. The clever (or devious, depending on your perspective) part is finding ways to pass comp that isn't just W-2 wages to your employees.

 

[TheThirdDictor]

Honestly, I can't fault them for this. Depending on the scope of the issue (which we don't have access to), I could see this very easily be a fireable offense, especially if the policies are clear on this.

In a bricks-and-mortar company? If somebody was "just" stealing $10 a week from petty cash, or was proven to be adding $20 a week on their expense report? They'd be fired. As they should.

In this case, if it was my company? I'd probably start with a written warning, unless the abuse was egregious. But that's only a matter of degree. Firing would be ALWAYS be on the table for demonstrated dishonesty.

 

[Deranged]

Some of that seems abusive, some does not. What's the issue with pooling money together?

Edit: does sound an awful lot like they were looking to cut their headcount and decided to use a bunch of low severity discipline cases as the reason. If they were critical employees this sort of thing would have been swept under the rug (like I'm sure it is for any C suites).

Yeah, that sounds very likely. I was recently involved in a large project (like multiple tens of millions in consultancy fees alone) where the head of project was terminated for having paid for the meals of four other employees from his own credits. A very minor transgression in itself but the rules were clearly against that.

The real reason was of course that he was a person that caused friction in the organisation and towards the client, had a somewhat abusive attitude to co workers and also hired his wife’s unqualified sister for the management team, giving her a fake CV to boot.

 

[fractl]

I suspect this was the kind of thing tolerated in the past when Facebook/Meta was having strong growth quarter after quarter.

Now, when cost-cutting is on the table, easiest thing to do is look for those who’ve repeatedly violated policy and get rid of them.

How many billions has Zuckerberg wasted on vanity projects?

 

[Incarnate]

I've seen coworkers get fired for this and put on their permanent industry record.

What is a "permanent industry record", and what country?

 

[MadMaxCo]

How dumb. Instead of meal, gym, commuting, etc. credits - why not just add $ to salaries? I've always been hesitant to signup and use these kinds of perks at work since the terms, and internal reporting requirements, are usually overly complicated - so I just opt out.

But it's also a sneaky loophole during layoffs, enabling companies to avoid paying severance. Did you use that $50/mo gym credit on a new pair of sneakers? Well, now you're subject to termination without severance, since you've violated company terms.

But also, as an employee, preventing this is super easy: Just use those perks and benefits properly, and you'll be fine.

 

[bmaniora]

Perhaps before you steal $25 a day from your employer maybe think about whether it is worth losing your 400k a year job.

 

[RuralNinja]

Pooling their money, as in "we make a single $50 order for someplace decent instead of separate $25 orders that can only get us McDonalds" kind of pooling?

That just sounds like a slimy way to try and fire people for a made up cause to avoid paying unemployment. But I wouldn't expect anything less from Zuck.

 

[Dr. Fancypants]

Not an accountant. Can a business write-off meal credits as a business expense?

Also not an accountant, but yes—meals provided can be written off, and the rules Meta (and other employers) put in place around the use of those credits is to ensure they satisfy the IRS’s requirements for the deduction. The employees in this story potentially created some tax headaches for Meta by using the credits in ways that the company would not be allowed to make a deduction.

 

[p-chapman]

It would be interesting to see how the employees perceived it.

Did they feel that they were sneaking around the rules?
Were the rules made clear to them? (Or was it on page 37 of a 100 page employment conditions document they had to click to Accept online?)
Did they know about the IRS tax issues affecting their employer? (That the rules weren't just based on the employer's whim)
Did they think that 'it was wrong'.... but 'everyone is doing it'?
Did they feel that their managers knew, but in effect accepted the behaviour, thus negating the written rules?
All sorts of different levels of culpability.

The issue here is about more than $25; it is about that times many occasions over a long period.

(Maybe they do deserve to be fired. But I do have a thing about employers who officially have one policy, then in practice allow more relaxed behaviour... but then if something goes wrong, point to the official policy and say it is all the employee's fault. That's poor organizational behaviour.)

 

[imikem]

The worker grunts always gets fucked.

I'm willing to make grunt-like noises for $400k. Though not for Zucky, fuck that guy.

 

[e^ipi+1]

Is severance some sort of legal requirement? I've never gotten more than my unused PTO, but I've only worked for small businesses in a "right to work" state.

Not so far as I know, unless it's part of someone's contract. However, there are requirements to give advance notice for layoffs of a certain size, which sometimes companies get around by just keeping people on the payroll for that amount of time after telling them to stop coming to work.

 

[rosen380]

You also get taxed on that, as it is considered income. I have a similar (not nearly as generous, or as easily exploitable) benefit, and my employer sent out a notice that they'd be picking up the taxes for it.

But we are comparing paying taxes on the benefit versus paying for the benefit out of pocket with taxed income.

It is still better to ONLY pay the income tax on the cost of the food than to pay for the food with money that you had to pay income taxes on.

 

[rosen380]

So are you telling me that Uber eats is going to report what money was spent on what products back to the company giving credits? I have serious doubts about that.

Possible that the apps you can use the credit in are using some kind of corporate software rather than individuals using the standard Uber Eats app from the app store.

 

[oldgus]

This also sounds like wrongful termination if there was no disciplinary action in the past (especially if this was done over a long period of time)

California is an At Will state. Unless you have a contract, you can be fired for using Arial instead of Helvetica, or because your boss is in a pissy mood and feels like firing someone.

 

[Dr. Fancypants]

How dumb. Instead of meal, gym, commuting, etc. credits - why not just add $ to salaries? I've always been hesitant to signup and use these kinds of perks at work since the terms, and internal reporting requirements, are usually overly complicated - so I just opt out.

A $25 salary increase generally costs the company more than $25, as the company typically also incurs added payroll taxes with that salary increase. A $25 meal costs the company exactly $25 (and as an added bonus, the company can take away that perk in the future without being seen as cutting salaries).

I suspect there’s also a psychological component—providing the meal credit can give a sense of “look what the company is doing for me!” that goes above and beyond a high salary.

And the complicated terms employers impose are typically there to ensure they’re following the rules to be able to deduct the perks as business expenses.

 

[Hopefully Smarter]

I heard some of them pooled their money, bought up a bunch of prime real estate in Hawaii and used every means to keep indigenous locals from accessing their sacred…

oopsie, that was Zuck.

so fuck him and his many and varied idiosyncratic authoritarian bullsiht.

I’ve had more than enough of these mental deficients running America into the ground.

Public enemy #3

 

[sword_9mm]

Da fuck is a "permanent industry record"?

Something the Police should have.

 

[EnPeaSea]

Something the Police should have.

Sting's discography is on Spotify for anyone to see!

 

[papito10]

It's obnoxious to me that someone pulling half a mil a year with full compensation is that cheap that they would game the benefits for pennies, and that a trillion+ company would make this a fireable offense. A stern email would suffice, I would imagine.

It's the age of frugality, idiots, don't give them a reason.

 

[rosen380]

How dumb. Instead of meal, gym, commuting, etc. credits - why not just add $ to salaries? I've always been hesitant to signup and use these kinds of perks at work since the terms, and internal reporting requirements, are usually overly complicated - so I just opt out.

Adding the $$$ would mean, in this case, adding $70 per day for every (eligible) employee, while this perk is an up-to.

I imagine the average person using this perk as intended is likely spending more like 40-80% of that, so $28-56.

If you are the employer, would you rather give all of your employees $7-14k per year or $17.5k?

 

[papito10]

Yeah, it's sudden and for incredibly low amounts of money, but nobody fucks around when it comes to money that's given to you for a specific purpose. Nobody lets that shit slide. I expect these employees were expressly told that these credits were meant for meals in the office only, and didn't just bend that hard rule, but outright broke it with general non-food groceries.

"What kind of a pedestrian meal do you expect me to buy for $25?"

 

[mpfaff]

I guess not enough self laid off when the RTO went out. While the employees shouldn't have done this, this is another way a company can lay people off, grabbing easy to fire low hanging fruit type rule violations. It's like when a company is pretty lax on tardiness and all of the sudden takes it seriously.

 

[RedSox]

But the tax rules require you to eat at the office. Needs to be where employer and employee are both present. It's not corporations wanting to be assholes, it's the IRS.

If an employer allows it to be delivered to their home, it's tax fraud.

Sounds like a tax rule that is a relic of the 20th century with remote working so common nowadays. You can probably more easily speak with your boss at home via Zoom then you can at work in person.

 

[morlamweb]

Yeah, I said as much in my post, the first sentence. The only sentence. So... We agree.

However, frequency is not the issue. If your employer pays for your on site parking every day of the month, that can still be a de minimis benefit. The clever (or devious, depending on your perspective) part is finding ways to pass comp that isn't just W-2 wages to your employees.

The collective value of those meal credits, added up over a year, would add up to some serious money. I don't think that would pass muster under de minimis.

 

[quamquam quid loquor]

Not everyone on Ars works in finance. Next time, please write "FINRA permanent record" or something similar, to head off any confusion. It makes sense that a heavily regulated industry like finance would have a permanent record for employees, but that's the exception, not the norm, across all industries.

Sorry you're right, I should clarify next time. This is a financial times article repost so I figured it was ok to talk about finance.

 

[quamquam quid loquor]

The whole thing doesn’t make sense. Yes, if you do it properly you can deduct meals and the employees don’t have to include it in income, so there is some juice to squeeze on the tax side. But it’s far more about the “Zomg! Free food at work! This is amazing!” Vibes than the tax benefit.

Yeah if the companies did not deduct employee meals, they wouldn't get hit for tax fraud and the employees could eat food at home.

The reason they don't is because it's far more efficient to just add that money to salaries. Free food at work outside of the restrictions is taxed as ordinary income to employees.

 

[morlamweb]

What is a "permanent industry record", and what country?

Some heavily-regulated industries, such as finance, have industry-wide records kept for employees. The OP seems to think that all commenters here have knowledge of such systems, when comments here very clearly indicate otherwise.

 

[Dano40]

I've seen coworkers get fired for this and put on their permanent industry record.

Don't do it. It's so dumb, you save $25/day and lose out on not just your $400,000 salary, but the earnings potential of millions of dollars.

Penny wise Pound foolish. It's a tax issue too if your employees aren't actually using it for food.

Stealing from the company because you can why even chance it, just stupid it really is no different than stealing anything else from a company or a person that trust you.

 

[quamquam quid loquor]

Some heavily-regulated industries, such as finance, have industry-wide records kept for employees. The OP seems to think that all commenters here have knowledge of such systems, when comments here very clearly indicate otherwise.

Also anyone in government, the military, or contractors thereof. I believe accountants, doctors, pharmacists, lawyers as well through their associated organizations like the BAR - basically most professional designations.

I didn't presume everyone has knowledge of such systems - I just said I saw coworkers get fired for it and put on their permanent industry record, which is completely factual.

 

[Deny_Deflect_Disavow]

“The person, who indicated they had a salary of about $400,000 at Meta and worked “nights [and] weekends,” wrote that they had admitted to the oversight when human resources investigated the practice, before later being unexpectedly fired. “It was almost surreal that this was happening,” the person wrote.”

Very stupid. Id like to know what their job was.

 

[Ed1024]

Honestly, I can't fault them for this. Depending on the scope of the issue (which we don't have access to), I could see this very easily be a fireable offense, especially if the policies are clear on this.

In a bricks-and-mortar company? If somebody was "just" stealing $10 a week from petty cash, or was proven to be adding $20 a week on their expense report? They'd be fired. As they should.

In this case, if it was my company? I'd probably start with a written warning, unless the abuse was egregious. But that's only a matter of degree. Firing would be ALWAYS be on the table for demonstrated dishonesty.

We had a case like this in the company I work for, which on the surface seemed unbelievably harsh: was stopped leaving the premises and had some cans of soda, chocolates and things like that which were not their property in their bag. Fired.

What we didn’t know until later was that Asset Protection visited his house with police and they found a garage almost completely full of Company property of various descriptions which they’d been helping themselves to over the last decade, some of which was on eBay. They weren’t on $400k but the equivalent of more than $100k - I suppose normalisation of deviance got them in the end...

 

[Dano40]

What on earth is a "permanent industry record"? I've been in big tech for nearly 15 years and companies barely do more than confirm you worked somewhere. Yes some people can build up a reputation but that only affects individuals trying to get a job with someone who knows their former manager well. I've seen plenty of people with poor reps get hired quickly into new jobs.

So much of this kind of strictness is dependent on company or team culture. Those freebies often were used instead of huge salaries, so people tend to leverage them where they can, even if their salary is high.

You aren't wrong about the tax issue, even if this is just a rounding error for something like FB. But that type of thing should have a warning first. If these people were on a pip and warned? Sure. But if what the article states is accurate then it's a stealth layoff (maybe without severance).

As others have said, just put it into the salary or a bonus without strings attached. Let people use it for whatever makes sense and if you want in office perks, manage them in office.

Don’t kid yourself Einstein many companies do check up on you (your past history) whether you know it or not. Particularly companies, hiring in sensitive areas and companies that have gone through several duds….

 

[macosandlinux]

Firing someone with a $400k salary over a $25 meal credit? That's a layoff without the trouble of severance.

Even if there was a pattern of misuse, you talk to the employee first if you have any interest in retaining them.

But also using your $25 dinner credit on toothpaste and other stuff (and repeatedly it seems) is such a douche move with 400K salary! They said they did not want to 'waste' it - entitlement much.