Meta fires staffers for using $25 meal credits on household goods

Some workers pooled their money together or had meals delivered to their homes.

See full article...

 

[50me12]

Looking at the door dash site for meal credits, the company can automatically see what's spent and where. I'm surprised that these credits aren't "controlled" in a way of not allowing you to order from specific places that don't server food.

Some companies require you to submit meal reciepts others have per diem rates. Quite frankly the per diem rate is usually better than the hassle of having to save reciepts and submit them as you just claim X number of days at Y per diem rate where you are at.

Some companies also don't look very closely.

I've worked with several where it quickly became clear (even if only due to a typo) that .... nobody was paying attention. Supposedly some 3rd party overseas company was reviewing it but they obviously were not.

 

[quamquam quid loquor]

Da fuck is a "permanent industry record"?

Financial industry - FINRA U4, not everyone in Ars works in tech.

 

[toastie]

Doing the math it’s a pretty nice little bonus to mis-spend: ($20+$25+25)x20 working days per month = $1,400/mo. Or $16,800/year.

Talk about a gravy train.

You also get taxed on that, as it is considered income. I have a similar (not nearly as generous, or as easily exploitable) benefit, and my employer sent out a notice that they'd be picking up the taxes for it.

 

[ubercurmudgeon]

I can't wait for the David Fincher movie, written by Aaron Sorkin, about the tangled web of intrigue and betrayal behind the purchasing of acne pads and laundry detergent using meal credits.

 

[Demosthenes642]

I have to wonder whether there was a published policy on the use of the credits and how clearly it communicated. The article mentions the intention of the credits, but not about any policy.

Definitely missing some key info in the article. If there was clear policy and the offending employees had been informed that they were violating it and that they were made aware of the potential consequences of violating the policy then they don't have much of a leg to stand on. If that isn't the case then yeah it's a pretty flimsy pretext and Meta will be hearing from the lawyers.

If Meta HR is to be believed and these employees had a history of violating this policy then trustworthiness becomes an issue as well. Even if it's "small" dollar value violations of a perk policy it gets into a manager's head when an employee is willing to cheat over lunch money ESPECIALLY when they're making $400k+. As a manager I don't want to employ someone that I know is dishonest no matter how effective they are, particularly if they're in a more senior position because that attitude can spread to the team and beyond just lunch money.

 

[quamquam quid loquor]

Some companies also don't look very closely.

I've worked with several where it quickly became clear (even if only due to a typo) that .... nobody was paying attention. Supposedly some 3rd party overseas company was reviewing it but they obviously were not.

Until they get audited and decide they need to check and you lose your job over $25/day.

 

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I don't know about tech firms, but I know financial firms get regularly audited for abuses of this. The offenders get hit with ethics violations and marked on their Form U4 from FINRA and can be looked up from https://brokercheck.finra.org/ anytime. You're defacto blacklisted from the industry forever once you get a U4 violation.

It's fraud. $25 fraud sure, but still fraud. Tech workers should be treated the same as a waiter who steals from the cash register.

I think facebook has(mostly successfully) attempted to remain 'basically just a blog with a comments section guys; entertainment purposes only" for regulatory purposes; so I'd be surprised if they face the same external pressure for probity that the handling-other-people's-money sector does.

Certainly doesn't mean that they can't or shouldn't discourage flouting of internal policies; but they don't have the centuries of justified public concern around "what other money they have access to are they also stealing?" that the financial sector does when deciding whether or not to treat it as the fraud it technically is or as a generic incentive that isn't worth fussing about so long as the employee seems worth retaining.

 

[50me12]

Until they get audited and decide they need to check and you lose your job over $25/day.

I'm sure not going to do it. Just noting how sometimes this stuff comes about and goes on a for a long time.

I'm gonna eat at work for free if I can within the rules .... every day Thank you boss man!

 

[AndySt]

I've seen coworkers get fired for this and put on their permanent industry record.

Don't do it. It's so dumb, you save $25/day and lose out on not just your $400,000 salary, but the earnings potential of millions of dollars.

Penny wise Pound foolish. It's a tax issue too if your employees aren't actually using it for food.

Wait, "permanent industry records" are a real thing? Does it link to my "permanent record" from high school where I had one fight and a dress code violation?

 

[quamquam quid loquor]

I think facebook has(mostly successfully) attempted to remain 'basically just a blog with a comments section guys; entertainment purposes only" for regulatory purposes; so I'd be surprised if they face the same external pressure for probity that the handling-other-people's-money sector does.

Certainly doesn't mean that they can't or shouldn't discourage flouting of internal policies; but they don't have the centuries of justified public concern around "what other money they have access to are they also stealing?" that the financial sector does when deciding whether or not to treat it as the fraud it technically is or as a generic incentive that isn't worth fussing about so long as the employee seems worth retaining.

Meta/Facebook gets regularly trotted out to congressional hearings. I'm pretty sure they have a lot of scrutiny. The IRS in particular is extremely interested in tax fraud by tech companies and their employees.

Companies that do the Irish double dutch to avoid taxes that employ high earners who are juicy targets for audits.

 

[quamquam quid loquor]

Wait, "permanent industry records" are a real thing? Does it link to my "permanent record" from high school where I had one fight and a dress code violation?

Sarcasm aside, yes in the financial industry, FINRA maintains employment and ethics history going back decades.

 

[elboku]

Wait- this person blew a 400k a year job over 25 dollars? That is fracking insane. They deserve to be fired just for sheer stupidity.

Also, shout out to FNRA people here. FNRA is a whoop ass bunch of rules, regulations, and laws...the pettiest and funniest group of laws out there.

 

[50me12]

Ideed. What is the cosst of administering and auditing this perk?

One might assume that these firings are the reason for the policy and program to exist in the first place.

To provide an easy and ironclad way to get rid of employees when corporate finances need to be adjusted. How many other companies have perks like this, easy to abuse and easy to fire people over when they do?

I don't think Meta needs some complicated scheme involving free meals to find people to fire ...

More likely they would in fact want to be rid of people who abused a benefit.

 

[42Kodiak42]

Looking at the door dash site for meal credits, the company can automatically see what's spent and where. I'm surprised that these credits aren't "controlled" in a way of not allowing you to order from specific places that don't server food.

Some companies require you to submit meal reciepts others have per diem rates. Quite frankly the per diem rate is usually better than the hassle of having to save reciepts and submit them as you just claim X number of days at Y per diem rate where you are at.

You can usually get some meals from most grocery stores, such as frozen meals, deli section sandwiches, or cold cuts so you have ingredients for meals at work. Which would be an unorthodox usage of the meal credit, but not fraud like having groceries sent home.

Also employees are generally trusted by their employers to a basic degree, trying to put in automated restrictions sounds like it could cause more problems than it's worth, which isn't really a whole lot in either case. Given people who make 400k salaries, it's really easy to hit "more trouble than it's worth"

 

[quamquam quid loquor]

We need to go back to the tax code of the 1970s where perks were basically untaxed and high income people enjoyed travel, dining and entertainment on corporate accounts that were fully deductible to the company.

I know this is the extreme position, but the moderate position of “companies providing meals shouldnt be taxable” would be a good update to tax code.

And private jets too!

 

[Albino_Boo]

Were they working from home those nights? If the employer is asking me to work until 10pm+ to finish something up before a tight deadline for delivery, and I don't have time to shop and cook, it seems totally legitimate to me to use that $25 credit to order meal delivery so I can eat while I work (also, the whole work life balance here sounds really screwed up).

What you think is irrelevant. If the company specifies that cards are only to be used at work then they are only usable at work. The second you use them at home you are committing fraud. Benefit in kind regulations mean that if the employee uses them outside the workplace IRS comes knocking wanting payroll taxes on the value. The IRS also will want the employee to pay income tax on the card's value.

 

[nomoroto]

" But I read online that eating acne pads and drinking laundry detergent would prevent COVID...."

 

[alansh42]

We need to go back to the tax code of the 1970s where perks were basically untaxed and high income people enjoyed travel, dining and entertainment on corporate accounts that were fully deductible to the company.

I know this is the extreme position, but the moderate position of “companies providing meals shouldnt be taxable” would be a good update to tax code.

The reason it was cracked down on is that top executives were getting cars, houses, trips as tax-free "business expenses".

So yes, it doesn't count as taxable income if your employer provides meals at the workplace. But if they're giving you money for personal expenses it has to be reported to the IRS.

 

[icrf]

Firing someone with a $400k salary over a $25 meal credit? That's a layoff without the trouble of severance.

Is severance some sort of legal requirement? I've never gotten more than my unused PTO, but I've only worked for small businesses in a "right to work" state.

 

[morlamweb]

Firing someone with a $400k salary over a $25 meal credit? That's a layoff without the trouble of severance.

Even if there was a pattern of misuse, you talk to the employee first if you have any interest in retaining them.

It likely wasn't just the one $25 meal credit. The article says that the ones fired demonstrated a misuse of these credits over a long time. I don't like that the company jumped straight to firing them over this issue, but to say that this issue should be ignored is also wrong.

 

[Mechjaz]

16k a year is still pretty small compared to 400k (and I imagine total comp might have been larger than that).
Although honestly I wonder why they don't just give a small bonus and not do a meal credit? Is there a tax reason to justify going through the overhead of monitoring these?

Yeah:
https://www.irs.gov/government-enti...e minimis,for it unreasonable or impractical.
Granted, this is so much money it's hard to accept as a de minimis fringe benefit, but I'm certain it's aligned on these "but it's not a wage!" principles.

 

[simon5701]

Surprised how many think it's not a big deal. It doesn't sound different from any other benefit frauds such as insurance and we see people getting fired for that all the time for amounts less than what Meta pays for the food credits which adds up fast if you use $25 every time.

I get my work perks paid out without receipts and haven't been audited in recent years. But I fully expect to get fired if they catch me cheating the claims. Or if they catch me stealing equipment out of the office.

 

[Uncivil Servant]

I'm surprised that they're being so public about this. I imagine they think they're sending a message about employee probity, but to the outside world this looks like a company that must be close to hunting for spare change in the couch cushions if they're firing people over a $25 food voucher.

That does not inspire confidence in their future profit margins. It also sounds like they're no longer growing their workforce and will likely be cutting back on all those office perks. Again, that's a company that's slowing down and cutting costs. Not a company expecting large growth.

 

[MEhle]

Financial industry - FINRA U4, not everyone in Ars works in tech.

I’m kind of surprised that’s even a question. FINRA is the one that comes to mind for me too, as I have worked in that industry. You could also easily lose TS clearance over this, so there goes anything government, military, and a good chunk of aerospace. I’m sure there are other examples that don’t immediately jump out at me.

That’s not to mention there are a lot of smaller tight knit industries, where an informal reputation would be every bit as damaging as a formal blacklist.

 

[Dr. Fancypants]

Is severance some sort of legal requirement? I've never gotten more than my unused PTO, but I've only worked for small businesses in a "right to work" state.

Not unless you have an employment contract that guarantees you severance (which usually only high-level execs have).

 

[quamquam quid loquor]

I’m kind of surprised that’s even a question. FINRA is the one that comes to mind for me too, as I have worked in that industry. You could also easily lose TS clearance over this, so there goes anything government, military, and a good chunk of aerospace. I’m sure there are other examples that don’t immediately jump out at me.

That’s not to mention there are a lot of smaller tight knit industries, where an informal reputation would be every bit as damaging as a formal blacklist.

It's likely there are a few folks here who abuse their company policies. This is a good reminder to reassess that behavior.

 

[50me12]

I don't really get what's wrong with this - if you get a credit on Uber eats, it seems totally fine to use however you want and discipline for it seems wrong - I don't see how you could even separate personal balance from regular balance. On the other hand if they were expensing non meal charges, it does seem wrong. I'm guessing there's a 3rd option with special company managed accounts?

It's a benifit provided within a certian context.

"You get this cool benefit, use it for X,Y,Z."

If you don't t there are consequences .... yeah that's life.

 

[Demosthenes642]

Also employees are generally trusted by their employers to a basic degree, trying to put in automated restrictions sounds like it could cause more problems than it's worth, which isn't really a whole lot in either case. Given people who make 400k salaries, it's really easy to hit "more trouble than it's worth"

Corporate controls tend to work on a panopticon theory, folks are generally trusted (with some basic guardrails) because they could theoretically be "watched" at any time. The thing many fail to appreciate is how quickly a noted violation can take "being watched" to "Eye of Sauron" levels of scrutiny.

 

[anon_lawyer]

But the tax rules require you to eat at the office. Needs to be where employer and employee are both present. It's not corporations wanting to be assholes, it's the IRS.

If an employer allows it to be delivered to their home, it's tax fraud.

The whole thing doesn’t make sense. Yes, if you do it properly you can deduct meals and the employees don’t have to include it in income, so there is some juice to squeeze on the tax side. But it’s far more about the “Zomg! Free food at work! This is amazing!” Vibes than the tax benefit.

 

[Albino_Boo]

This is like giving someone money to Amazon and then being mad they don't order only groceries with it. If the money is only supposed to used for food, then maybe you should set it up so they can only order food.

edit: for those bringing up tax stuff. That doesn't add up. The money is going to uber eats who pays the store. It would all still be shown as paid to uber eats.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p5137.pdfYou better tell the IRS they wrong then

 

[morlamweb]

Financial industry - FINRA U4, not everyone in Ars works in tech.

Not everyone on Ars works in finance. Next time, please write "FINRA permanent record" or something similar, to head off any confusion. It makes sense that a heavily regulated industry like finance would have a permanent record for employees, but that's the exception, not the norm, across all industries.

 

[elboku]

For the want of 25 dollars, her 400k kingdom was lost...so sad...

 

[Chimaera5]

I think the employees were foolish to think someone wouldn't pick up on it eventually, but we all know the C suite executives are getting a ton of personal rewards paid for by the company. Using the company private jet for a personal trip, company paid for spa 'team building retreats', company paid for car/driver for a personal errand.

Firing an employee for using their lunch voucher to buy toothpaste is hypocrisy when you just know the executives are getting free high-end toiletries from 'executive washrooms' or frequent first-class travel.

One rule for thee but not for me.

 

[SPCagigas]

The worker grunts always gets fucked.

$400k/year is not a worker grunt...

 

[forkspoon]

100% lawful termination. You can't continuously defraud your employer and win that case.

I agree with this in principle, but in practice of course an employer is almost always permitted to defraud employees, or violate contracts with them, to a far greater extent. The application of relevant law is so uneven that a “simple as that” judgement on these things is an unjust and ill-considered farce. A cartoon, really.

Want to aggressively enforce the law on business to even things out and actually have justice prevail? In that case I’m with you but you can’t have it both ways if you want the moral high ground.

 

[morlamweb]

Yeah:
https://www.irs.gov/government-enti...e minimis,for it unreasonable or impractical.
Granted, this is so much money it's hard to accept as a de minimis fringe benefit, but I'm certain it's aligned on these "but it's not a wage!" principles.

A person using one meal credit a year almost certainly counts as de minimis. Someone using 2 or credits per day, for every working day of the year, almost certainly would NOT fall under that rule.