I didn't feel like cracking open hello world's ribcage to shit in his chest, as he's free to his opinion. Plus it looks like you guys already filled the cavity. I too think the art direction looks too generic, although that's arguably a problem for most sci-fi and fantasy RPG settings. What I do like is the conversation system, which looks very whim-based. So if I'm listening to an NPC and he's starting to annoy me, I can quickly gravitate the conversation to another subject, and make him submissive or shut the hell up. I've been waiting to do that to Bioware NPCs for a good decade now. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif -- <br><br>If the conversation system is as cool as I think it'll be, I call for a remake of Baldur's Gate 2. Being able to backhand Jahiera would be worth the price of admission. Have Jennifer Hale come back to do "please, stop hurting me" lines.
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Mass Effect
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">WTF is wrong with you guys (excluding hoyle1911 since he actually tried to post an intelligent response to the OP). He has an opinion on a game and thought he would share it. You guys need to lighten up and stop acting like Mass Effect fanboy assholes. There is no need to shit all over him for saying what he thinks about a game that isn't even out yet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Same thing happened to Zelda TP when Jeff G. over at Gamespot gave it a 8.8 for retreading old ground and a slow beginning. Apparently some projects are above reproach, which is patently stupid to assume. Nothing is perfect afterall. <BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Im curious, what scifi art do you feel is non generic? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR><BR>hello world posted a good example in Starcraft. Not remarkably original but a good remix of scifi humans by making them rednecks in a Confederacy with strong in-fighting (democracy turning into a dictatorship, with Rainer and Kerrigan leading the rebellion). Races Protoss and Zerg aren't terribly new, but allowing empathy for each race made the plot richer. No one is truly good or evil, just factions positioning themselves over each other.<BR><BR>I think Firefly is a good series. Good use of the costume department while keeping it just campy enough without it turning into a mess. A mashup of different genres but it works well. Familiar yet better than thrown together. <BR><BR>BSG is good at using believable uniforms and living quarters, and the weird octagonal paper and curse words are throwbacks to the original. Excellent usage of nukes, traditional ammunition, Newtonian physics, and gritty grime and blood. The Cylons are a little too Terminator for me, but the humans are done well.<BR><BR>None of it is completely new, but it doesn't feel generic to me. Until I play the hopefully rich world of Mass Effect, the costume and racial choices look very haphazard and Star Trekkish, which all looked really generic to me except the Klingons and Ferengi. Garish might be a word I'd use.
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I disagree. Even if you were familiar with them, it could still be unique and fresh given the context: a video game RPG. I've played at least 50x more RPGs that weren't set in Chinese mythology than I've played ones that were.<br> </div>
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<br><br>I agree with insertinanename. Way too generic a KOTOR with bad action gameplay and a "Chinese mod" skinned over a story. I felt the Romance of Three Kingdoms series had a decent treatment of Chinese history, although that focused on a military sim and not an RPG. James Mielke from 1up had a good discussion on Retronauts podcast where he described it best. Take a bad treatment of Chinese history, mix in a weak action game, and you have Jade Empire. Felt too much like white guys from Canada trying to tell a Chinese story. I guess it wouldn't be as glaring if there weren't already a thousand Chinese books and films that do historic stuff better.<br><br>If you're going to crib the Chinese, I think Max Payne and The Matrix did it best. Basically, take elements of what makes the asian content kickass, then change it and make it your own. The end result feels unique yet familiar, and neither of the western producers ended up embarrassing themselves by relying on asian stereotypes. <br><br>Jade Empire felt too Dynasty Warriors and Shogun:Total War to me. There's definitely something to be said about understanding some of the culture and history of the people you're depicting. In other words, Bioware isn't above reproach, and they've had misses in the past. The backstory callaway alludes to sounds promising, but I'm still somewhat skeptical.<br><br> <blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> of course I'm eagerly anticipating the game. It's a bioware game, and is more or less KOTOR 3. </div>
</blockquote> <br><br>++ Same here. Although I'd call it KOTOR 2. What Obsidian did was drop the ball, so they don't really count. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif -- <br><br>Criticism and skepticism isn't always the same as cynicism and hate. There will always be that potential misunderstanding on discussion boards.
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I disagree. Even if you were familiar with them, it could still be unique and fresh given the context: a video game RPG. I've played at least 50x more RPGs that weren't set in Chinese mythology than I've played ones that were.<br> </div>
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<br><br>I agree with insertinanename. Way too generic a KOTOR with bad action gameplay and a "Chinese mod" skinned over a story. I felt the Romance of Three Kingdoms series had a decent treatment of Chinese history, although that focused on a military sim and not an RPG. James Mielke from 1up had a good discussion on Retronauts podcast where he described it best. Take a bad treatment of Chinese history, mix in a weak action game, and you have Jade Empire. Felt too much like white guys from Canada trying to tell a Chinese story. I guess it wouldn't be as glaring if there weren't already a thousand Chinese books and films that do historic stuff better.<br><br>If you're going to crib the Chinese, I think Max Payne and The Matrix did it best. Basically, take elements of what makes the asian content kickass, then change it and make it your own. The end result feels unique yet familiar, and neither of the western producers ended up embarrassing themselves by relying on asian stereotypes. <br><br>Jade Empire felt too Dynasty Warriors and Shogun:Total War to me. There's definitely something to be said about understanding some of the culture and history of the people you're depicting. In other words, Bioware isn't above reproach, and they've had misses in the past. The backstory callaway alludes to sounds promising, but I'm still somewhat skeptical.<br><br> <blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> of course I'm eagerly anticipating the game. It's a bioware game, and is more or less KOTOR 3. </div>
</blockquote> <br><br>++ Same here. Although I'd call it KOTOR 2. What Obsidian did was drop the ball, so they don't really count. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif -- <br><br>Criticism and skepticism isn't always the same as cynicism and hate. There will always be that potential misunderstanding on discussion boards.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I don't want to derail the thread, but could you briefly summarize how MP borrowed from Chinese history/culture? I like the game, but have always regarded the story as a standard revenge fantasy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>The guys at Remedy said it best. Basically they watched every John Woo and Hong Kong action movie they could get their hands on multiple times. Then, they combed over what they liked and applied it to Payne. "Bullet time" was just the slow motion they used in action films. <BR><BR>What they intelligently avoided doing was make a Hong Kong cop the lead character and give him a fake ass accent. At least with the New York noir setting they could give a decent treatment.<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> "When you play Mass Effect, we want you to feel as you're a character in an epic sci-fi movie..." </div></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR><BR>Bioware also said "Jack Bauer in space". Very exciting if they pull it off. I wonder if there will be a sense of urgency in the game.
I like some of the new vids shown. The speech stops and starts, making the faces twitch a little in between transitions, but that's tough to fix when you're talking about input from the player. Because the text doesn't subtitle the voice acting, I've found that they keep terser language and get to the point. That's nice. One of the weaknesses of KOTOR/Jade Empire were the readings that went way too long and felt like a script, not believable dialog.<BR><BR>I still like how they've evolved some of the dialog options. Like in Fallout or BG2, your intelligence and prior actions can open up dialog trees that weren't available before. Also, being "chaotic good" allows shooting people in the face as one of your aggressive actions, while extra diplomacy dialog is available if you're "lawful good". <BR><BR>Another thing is you can't just bust out the blaster whenever you want. You have to talk and argue so the context makes sense. Think Han Solo shooting first. Han didn't awkwardly shoot first then explain himself later. He had some words with the alien, then shot him first.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dantesan:<BR>In the long interview with the developers at Bioware they said:<BR><BR>1) No one has counted/seen all the planets<BR><BR>2) All planets would allow you to do "something." (Such as simply scan to see if it's a life supporting planet or what elements it contains. Possibly make radio contact with surface dwellers.)<BR><BR>3) A large quantity of them you will be able to land on. (Even if you don't actually do much when you get there but kill some defenseless native aliens and collect some items)<BR><BR>4) Some worlds would have 2 minutes of something to do, others would have between 4 and 10 hours.<BR><BR>5) It wasn't stated in the interview but we know it's going to support downloadable content. So a lot of those planets that AREN'T explorable can become so later. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Anyone else getting a Starcon2 or Oblivion vibe? I wouldn't want each planet to be relatively generic and sparse.
I've always found that critical writeups tend to be the most informative, as this Destructoid guy has done. I too was disturbed to see him be down on the voice acting, but I wasn't too bothered as Bioware voice acting does tend to lean on the "script reading" side instead of something completely natural like a good film or theater play. At least it won't be like Oblivion where 3-4 people do the voices for 100 characters, while Patrick Stewart does a guest reading for 5 minutes.<BR><BR>It sort of goes with the territory that Bioware scripts are wordy. Too wordy for conversation to be honest. But Mass Effect does seem to be meeting in the middle between KOTOR and a regular conversation.<BR><BR>Destructoid guy saying the facial animations and voice work isn't the end-all-be-all is a good dose of reality. I wasn't expecting perfection anyways, just a solid evolution of Bioware RPGs. Our expectations of the conversation system were probably too high to begin with.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by morello:<BR>How credible are reviews in your opinion when they don't even play the game they are reviewing? <BR><BR>Read the fucking thread.<BR><BR>The point of all this is that idiot based all those insults and comments (which as pointed out, none really even apply to what one judges an RPG on anyway), without playing the game.<BR><BR>I don't know about you, but giving a professional review or even judgment of a car, without driving it, certainly seems a little shady to me.<BR><BR>I don't know why anyone would care what the fuck someone has to say about a game, when they go off saying shit about it without even playing it. That's just embarrassing. And then you have people like you claiming, look how people get upset over it, as if his review is perfectly grounded and fair. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>This is just a patently bad post, although not surprising. I'm glad the Internet is more than just sheep nodding their heads giving everything a 10. <BR><BR>I read previews and reviews specifically to hear what I don't want to hear. The flaws and real world impressions that knock us off of cloud nine. Fuck this goddamn mentality that anyone giving less than glorious praise is instantly crucified. Why. Read. Anything. If not for different opinions? Why even post on this message board, any message board, if you're only looking for something agreeable that suits your own little viewpoint?<BR><BR>And the guy from Destructoid is not "an idiot". Grow up.<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I'm basing my angry defensive stance on the fact that no reputable website has any right to take that sort of obnoxious stance on what looks to be a AAA title from watching a mere 20 minutes of game play (actually it's closer to 15 to be more precise), and not expect to be ridiculed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR><BR>He has every right. He's living in a free society, and it's just his opinion.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by morello:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I read previews and reviews specifically to hear what I don't want to hear. The flaws and real world impressions that knock us off of cloud nine. Fuck this goddamn mentality that anyone giving less than glorious praise is instantly crucified. Why. Read. Anything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>So you still don't get it huh? <BR><BR>Why read a preview about a 15 minute video? You really think it's fair to slam a game just because you want to with no care for what actually matters in the game? <BR><BR>Do you like going to websites about DS or Wii games and reading about people bitching about non-HD graphics in every review? Sure sounds like it.<BR><BR>The point is this guy's review is unfounded. Anything based on 15 minutes of gameplay shouldn't be used to pass judgement on a 20 hour RPG game.<BR><BR>But you can go back to your bubble of ignorance and keep ignoring the fact, and act like it's perfectly fine for a website to post unfounded hate and the sort, because hey, it's a different perspective. Doesn't matter that it's not grounded at all. <BR><BR>I'm pretty sure I can take 15 minutes of almost any game ever made and make a convincing argument that the game's a piece of shit (actually a 3 year old could do a better job than Destructoid did). </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Man, stop attacking the guy's character like some immature poster. I know three year olds and they are wonderful people, but no they wouldn't do a better job. Grow up.<BR><BR>For the 15 minutes, it's ample time to get a sense of voice acting and character animation. I don't need 15 minutes to know a good X-Files actor's ability, or a good Disney, Warner, or Pixar animation. How much time do you need? As for gameplay, yeah it's just an impression. Some of the most informative articles are the ones you completely disagree with. No need for drama over something that's relatively benign. <BR><BR>And it's not a review, it's a preview. He hasn't passed final judgement and says as much in his post. How did you feel about Mark from 1up slamming Too Human months ago? He disclosed he got a bad impression from it, but also stated he reserves final judgement on the review code.
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Psion:<br>A jerk? -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif --<br><br><br>I'll be interrupting the hell out of everyone for my first playthrough, I can pretty much guarantee that. My character build will be maximized to make this as entertaining as possible. I'm thinking tech nerd.<br><br>Now if I could find a way to cue a Phoenix Wright-esque "OBJECTION!" to the interrupt, I'd probably <i>never</i> stop doing so. </div>
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<br><br>The ultimate badass conversation choice in Mass Effect is when you shoot the guy in the face. Hopefully, there's a pimp slap or drop kick option before the guy gets got. Knowing those good mannered Canadians, however, there will unfortunately be no torture option.<br><br>Jack Bauer in space? Jack Bauer will slice off your fingers because he's in a hurry, and THERE'S NO TIME!!!
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Psion:<br>A jerk? -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif --<br><br><br>I'll be interrupting the hell out of everyone for my first playthrough, I can pretty much guarantee that. My character build will be maximized to make this as entertaining as possible. I'm thinking tech nerd.<br><br>Now if I could find a way to cue a Phoenix Wright-esque "OBJECTION!" to the interrupt, I'd probably <i>never</i> stop doing so. </div>
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<br><br>The ultimate badass conversation choice in Mass Effect is when you shoot the guy in the face. Hopefully, there's a pimp slap or drop kick option before the guy gets got. Knowing those good mannered Canadians, however, there will unfortunately be no torture option.<br><br>Jack Bauer in space? Jack Bauer will slice off your fingers because he's in a hurry, and THERE'S NO TIME!!!
Just saw it. It is stiff and rather monotone. However from the trajectory of KOTOR to Jade Empire to Mass Effect, it's a solid evolution. Pretty good for a Bioware fan, but objectively it is rather weak compared to say acting on a SciFi channel show, X-Files or Battlestar Galactica. We'll just have to wait for the next game to see how Bioware solves the issue of emotion. Record multiple takes of the same line? Happy, sad, muted, angry. <br><br>It reminded me of the voice acting in Deus Ex. Bland but not terrible. I am somewhat disappointed they didn't take things further than they did, but oh well. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif --<br><br>Edit: Just saw it a 2nd time. I understand the difficulty of saying a line in the wrong tone when they should be happy or sad or whatever, but the weakness carries over to the scripted parts too. The girl in the white suit has rather phoned-in lines, and the general seems to have inappropriate jumps between monotone and yelling. I'm talking strictly about the scripted dialog where there's no conversation tree.<br><br>Not sure how Bioware's development process works, but they fucked up somewhere on the communication with the talent. I don't think the voice actors were aware of what the scene looked like beyond a general description, while the animators didn't seem to animate according to the dialog, like how animated films are usually adjusted and corrected. It's ... inappropriate. My suspicion is the voice actors only had the text to work with and no visuals, while the animators had text and no audio. Something bad happened here.
Oh yes, Mass Effect!!! Why couldn't it be out now instead of teasing me for an extra month?<BR><BR>Nice to hear the story is as good or better than KOTOR and Jade Empire, but I still would like other sources to comment on the voice acting and animations. Game Informer has good content but they tend to score high and do cheerleading with their writing instead of being critical.
Motherfucker hurry up and get here Tuesday!!! -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif -- <br><br>The alien lesbian love scene on youtube, I found disappointing. Reminds me of the scene in Titanic as well as Eddie Murphy talking about William Shatner fucking a green bitch.
Do you guys think they've evolved the conversation system since KOTOR and Jade Empire, or was it mostly hype? I'm disappointed by the standard good/neutral/bad options being reported here. <BR><BR>But really, how can I not play this game? HURRY UP TUESDAY, DAMN.
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