Major government research lab appears to be squeezing out foreign scientists
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
You are the example I show people who think the Dept. of Ed didn't do much before being gutted, and the need to build it up, not tear it down.
Upvote
7
(7
/
0)
Yea gods. It’s like someone looked at the famous “brain drain” after WW2 and said the Germans got the better end of the stick….
Upvote
10
(10
/
0)
When I tell people I have a degree in marine biology I frequently hear that either they or their children wanted to do that but then realized there's not big money in it so they use athletic scholarships to get MBAs. They see the cartoon about shareholder value and think what's depicted is a utopia, I guess. Not really, it's just the American struggle of "all that matters is that I get mine!" South Park was spot on with their "I need to get my nut!" episode. Sad.
Upvote
16
(16
/
0)
Ron DeSatanis says you're wrong! Florida had record-high tourism last year, and so far this year, with good ol' native-born 'Mericans picking up the slack! Now I haven't seen it in my town, and my work depends on tourism, so I should know, but I'm sure my own town is just an anomaly, DeSatanis would never lie about this, or the legality of petition signatures, or budget appropriation slushiness, naaah, MAGAts wouldn't do that!
Upvote
11
(11
/
0)
These furreiners can easily be replaced with American graduates who have been through America’s educational system (usually rated in 37th - 50th place in global rankings)
Upvote
2
(5
/
-3)
Wasn’t this always the case with NIST? I did my PhD in an area that NIST has quite a number of researchers (magnetic materials) in that on the face of it has little to do with security, but the postdoc positions that came up there always insisted on US citizenship required
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
Case in point -- look at the authors behind the new post-quantum key exchange and signature algorithms approved by NIST, and you'll notice that many were not US citizens.
Upvote
7
(7
/
0)
I would argue that this is actually the correct characterization. Here is Wikipedia's description of lawful evil, which I think is a pretty good one:
Put another way, loosely speaking a lawful evil character is not about following existing laws so much as imposing laws on others in order to further their evil ends.
Upvote
4
(4
/
0)
The Werder Bremen club has canceled its trip to that world cup. We will see if others follow suit.
Upvote
6
(6
/
0)
Basically if you’ve got rules that protect an in-group and bind an out-group then you’ve got a lawful system.
Upvote
3
(4
/
-1)
"valuable American intellectual property"
I have spent almost 20 years of my life/career in academic research circles. A lot - and I do mean a LOT - of that American intellectual property is created for the US by non-citizen researchers and another lot is created by citizen researchers who were learning from and trained by non-citizen professors and researchers.
Occasionally, in history, some people thought they have the intellect and everyone else is just leaching. Never ends well.
US scientific history is loaded with examples of foreign-born immigrant people advancing US fields enormously. Just list a few names everyone should know, e.g., Neumann, Fermi, Karman, Einstein, Fermi, Tesla, Bell, Bose, and then, oh man, just think of the last ~50 years.
Anyway, nothing this article points out should come as a surprise. But for anyone who's not paying close attention, there will come a surprise when the long term effects will (and they will) manifest. Even if some next political climate makes things less hostile, putting Humpty back together is a dream. You can build a new Humpty, but it will take a long time and it won't be anything like the old one.
I have spent almost 20 years of my life/career in academic research circles. A lot - and I do mean a LOT - of that American intellectual property is created for the US by non-citizen researchers and another lot is created by citizen researchers who were learning from and trained by non-citizen professors and researchers.
Occasionally, in history, some people thought they have the intellect and everyone else is just leaching. Never ends well.
US scientific history is loaded with examples of foreign-born immigrant people advancing US fields enormously. Just list a few names everyone should know, e.g., Neumann, Fermi, Karman, Einstein, Fermi, Tesla, Bell, Bose, and then, oh man, just think of the last ~50 years.
Anyway, nothing this article points out should come as a surprise. But for anyone who's not paying close attention, there will come a surprise when the long term effects will (and they will) manifest. Even if some next political climate makes things less hostile, putting Humpty back together is a dream. You can build a new Humpty, but it will take a long time and it won't be anything like the old one.
Upvote
18
(18
/
0)
Given the risk of being picked up by ICE, I wonder how many people are stupid enough to actually trust this administration.
Upvote
7
(7
/
0)
What does political science or social science have to do with what's happening here?
Keep your anti-intellectual rants to yourself before you make an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have.
Upvote
5
(7
/
-2)
Upvote
2
(4
/
-2)
Sounds to me like they’re upset that historians and political scientists were warning that fascists would be cutting science funding.
Last edited:
Upvote
8
(8
/
0)
I think BSI, DIN and ISO (British, German and International) are the big 3 for industrial standards. NIST certainly has had it's place but I think internationally, a lot of it has fed into ISO norms
As I see it the problem is also one where the MAGAs think that the US somehow domestically produces exceptionally smart people who think of solutions and research nobody else is capable of even conceiving. Reality is that the only thing that has made US research exceptional is 1: Access to large amounts of cash, 2: Access to a vast supporting network of research institutions both federal and private, 3: Attracting the best and brightest talent from around the world and enticing them to work for the US institutions and 4: Access to a vast network of high competence companies willing to work with scientists to build cutting edge equipment to support their research.
Point 4 has been crumbling for a long time as the drive for short term profits at many companies have overshadowed the programs needed to build and maintain future competence. Point 2 and 3 is being actively destroyed by the Trump government. Point 1 by itself is only useful when the other requirements covered by points 2, 3 and 4 are covered. No amount of cash can get useful results if the support network isn't there. Together with the destruction of the private company support the amount of cash driving innovation from the "business line" has been diminishing strongly too and what is there, is often now kept internal to the company where they hire in people on an as needed basis but keep the resulting IP entirely as company property. This means that the developments cannot benefit further derived products down the line in the same way it could happen in the past.
Edited to slightly improve some wording.
Last edited:
Upvote
16
(16
/
0)
Being lawful doesn't mean not being evil as it can be entirely within the law to use those laws for evil, and lawful even means basically exactly that. Use laws for evil. Lawful evil also doesn't mean following existing laws. It means following your own.
The way I've always heard it put is that a lawful evil follows their own (evil) laws in the pursuit of their goals, consequences to anyone else be damned. They have their own personal ethics and law system and they stick to THOSE laws and ethics strictly. Trump and MAGA seem to follow this definition. They believe in having a strictly ordered society. It's just that their idea of strictly ordered conflicts with what any of us here would consider good.
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
Regulates might be the wrong word, but even here in Canada, many standards used here point back to one created by NIST. So if something happens with a NIST standard then it may be promogulated outwards without being noticed for a long time.
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
If nobody notices, then the change obviously isn't important.
Everyone has printed copies of the standards in their national libraries. The US can die in a fire and we'll be fine maintaining standards and creating new ones. Particularly if the US stops being a trading partner -- the point of having standards match between countries is to promote international trade.
Upvote
-4
(1
/
-5)
As someone who is also stuck in a tourist-y part of Florida, I also noticed a dramatic drop in tourist-related traffic. So that's good, at least. It spells out the coming economic death knell of these places, sure, but you know what, I'll take whatever silver linings I can get.
I just can't wait for DeSatan's governorship to have egg on its face when they inevitably have to reintroduce a state income tax to prop up falling revenue from sales tax with the drop in tourism. 50/50 shot on whether they keep jacking up sales tax to try to prop it up first (think they already have, once so far) or just deficit spend and try to ignore reality to make it the next guy's problem, though.
Upvote
6
(6
/
0)
This isn't limited to NIST (specifically, the after hours restriction on foreign nationals). Something must have changed in the interpretation of ITAR/EAR access control regulations again, but I'm not seeing any guidance on this available publicly.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
trevor_darley
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Pick a battle. You can support the government dismantling science OR you can bemoan the lack of scientists. Trying to do both makes you look like a jellyfish with no principles.
Upvote
3
(4
/
-1)
The NIST (formerly the NBS) is no longer necessary since the Orange Der Trumpenfuhrer knows more than anyone else alive, has declared that all standards have to be defined by the King, one Mr. Sir Donald J. Trump! /S /S
Upvote
1
(2
/
-1)
I see at least three indicating that they don't even know what they are.
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
The new law is that the King gets to decide what the law is, and his Supreme Court then gets to confirm his claims. The Constitution is just a poorly worded Made in China document that the King does not need to read, because reading is too hard for him, and actual comprehension is entirely impossible. /S
Upvote
3
(3
/
0)
The reason the US attracted so much talent was money, the ability to fund research.
It was NOT for a better life, TBH living in the US can be seen as a down grade.
Trump has destroyed the US economy, he has destroyed relationships with the world. Is the US going to collapse tomorrow, nope, that will take years, but it is going to happen.
Sorry, but its true.
The world is rapidly adjusting trade, etc etc etc leaving the USA out of the loop.
The world will no longer accept the US exploiting other countries.
There is much the world can do , and they are starting.
EU and Asia will eventually take over.
It was NOT for a better life, TBH living in the US can be seen as a down grade.
Trump has destroyed the US economy, he has destroyed relationships with the world. Is the US going to collapse tomorrow, nope, that will take years, but it is going to happen.
Sorry, but its true.
The world is rapidly adjusting trade, etc etc etc leaving the USA out of the loop.
The world will no longer accept the US exploiting other countries.
There is much the world can do , and they are starting.
EU and Asia will eventually take over.
Upvote
8
(8
/
0)
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
The Bari Weiss's and Linda McMahon's of the world will be there to ensure that only Golden Standard Science* is being done!
*That which is 100% compatible with creationism and the King's royal pronouncements. Water kills magnets, Windmills don't even work and cause cancer, and the Earth does not move and is only 6,000 years old, are now Alternative Facts. /S
https://givingcompass.org/article/1...lls-to-censor-higher-education-research-finds
https://www.npr.org/2025/03/14/g-s1-53831/dei-universities-education-department-investigation
https://lavocedinewyork.com/en/news...ation-into-nyu-and-cornell-over-dei-policies/
Last edited:
Upvote
3
(3
/
0)
Once visited the US as a consultant about two decades ago. Still fresh, boss took me under his wing and showed me how it was done. We visited a reputable company in silicon valley. I was surprised when I entered the room. People from India, China, UK, ... The only "real" American was the boss of the lab. One wonders who really made America great. clearly the land of opportunity though.
Upvote
8
(8
/
0)
In the news last weekend:
‘Don’t go to the US – not with Trump in charge’: the UK tourist with a valid visa detained by ICE for six weeks
Karen Newton was in America on the trip of a lifetime when she was shackled, transported and held for weeks on end. With tourism to the US under increasing strain, she says, ‘If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone’
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/feb/21/karen-newton-valid-visa-detained-ice
The article notes British, German, Canadian, and New Zealanders caught up in arbitrary ICE detentions... despite proper visas/permits and even when leaving the country.
No one is safe. Is seeing a soccer match really worth risking weeks or months detained under conditions that contravene POW treatment treaties?
Upvote
4
(4
/
0)
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
Nope.
But it's football fans you are talking about.
Besides, academics are already advised not to go. And if a trip is unavoidable, they must have a burner laptop they discard before coming back, etc...
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
I wouldn't even call our health system third world. Hoping the midterms get here soonest.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
Chaotic evil represent evil just for the sake of evil. The classic example of an chaotic evil person is The Joker.
While you can make a case for the republican party seemingly doing random acts of evil whenever it can, it do have a plan. The plan just dont benefit you or me. The plan is to give as much wealth and power to the already rich, wealthy and powerful. Its literally Robin Hooding in reverse.
Maga, Trump and the republican party does like laws ... their laws. Make the laws fit their narrative and weaponizes it agains everyone else. The Joker couldn't care two sheets about 'law' in any way or form.
DnD's Lawful evil a fitting allignment for the current regime.
Upvote
4
(4
/
0)