Shaun Alexander, the Seahawks RB featured on the cover of EA's Madden 2007, had some interesting comments on the game itself, and what could be done to improve it. Whether EA executives will listen is another matter.<BR><BR>Story.
Madden cover athlete suggests future direction for games
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Does anyone have the full text for Alexander's comments? I'm curious as to what else he had to say... (but not so curious as to register with NYTimes).<BR><BR>Any help would be appreciated (Google is failing me).<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by m666guy:<BR>if you have ten people who want to play madden.....just play real football. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>"You should be able to make a team and play together with your friends. Like if you have 10 friends, you could all play different positions <B><I>and be in 10 different houses and play together over the Internet.</B></I>"<BR><BR>- And "real" football would require 22 people, not 11.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">While some may claim not being able to see the whole field would make gameplay difficult </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Minimap.
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There has been a first person football game. One only needs to look to the NFL 2k series when it was still SEGA. You could play the entire game in First person. Most fun i ever had playing a football game.
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Man, I gotta move to South Korea...<BR><BR>About Shaun's comments - you'd need the Internet to do this, because of your 11 friends, who's gonna want to be a lineman? ESPN glorifies the 'skill' positions (as if some positions don't require any skill at all) so much, you need access to people who may BE linemen in real life & want to work on the mental aspect of the game to get a full squad.
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Wow, if EA or anyone else manages to pull that off I might actually be interested in playing a football game. That's just odd.
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EA doesn't have to listen to anyone. They have no competition, therefore no need to spend more money improving the game when they can do little tweaks, update the roster, slap a new number on it, and people will pay for it.<BR><BR>The only ones who would have any impact on Madden would be NFL executives if the came continued to be crap year after year.
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I don't think that there's anything to debate about it's feasibility. It's obviously possible, there are pseudo-sports games now that are multiplayer (UT Bombing Run). And leagues devoted to playing it.<BR><BR>Finding 5 smegheads who will block for you instead of committing a penalty every down would be tough. The game designers would have to put forth the effort to make playing each position interesting (some depth of play for the left guard position, etc.)<BR><BR>Now can we get human refs in our games too? Go Zebras!
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by irving_forbush:<BR>Man, I gotta move to South Korea...<BR><BR>About Shaun's comments - you'd need the Internet to do this, because of your 11 friends, who's gonna want to be a lineman? ESPN glorifies the 'skill' positions (as if some positions don't require any skill at all) so much, you need access to people who may BE linemen in real life & want to work on the mental aspect of the game to get a full squad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>You could always have bots play the linemen if you fell short a full roster. It even give you some encouragement to recruit some human players for linemen, since you'd always run the risk of a human linemen on the other team making a mockery of your bots and sacking your ass consistently.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Peldor:<BR><BR>Now can we get human refs in our games too? Go Zebras! </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>We'd have to, because you simply can't write AI that is that stupid, blind and corrupt.<BR><BR>(Bitter Seahawks fan).
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">About Shaun's comments - you'd need the Internet to do this, because of your 11 friends, who's gonna want to be a lineman? ESPN glorifies the 'skill' positions (as if some positions don't require any skill at all) so much, you need access to people who may BE linemen in real life & want to work on the mental aspect of the game to get a full squad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'd be a lineman. But then, I'm not a big football fan, nor am I big into football games, the only reason I'd be playing is to spend some time gaming with friends.
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<blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Peldor:<br>Finding 5 smegheads who will block for you instead of committing a penalty every down would be tough. The game designers would have to put forth the effort to make playing each position interesting (some depth of play for the left guard position, etc.) </div>
</blockquote>
<br>I'm not a lineman (IRL), so I may be clueless on this one, but the excitement of playing a virtual guard would probably depend mostly upon two things: <br><br>1) How often you call running plays. <br>2) The style of the defense being faced (I'd imagine that facing a defense that calls a lot of exotic blitzes would be pretty interesting).<br><br>That being said, lineman shouldn't need anything gimmicky to make them more appealing. (Nobody claimed otherwise; I'm just speaking generally here.) I would think that tight controls and the ability to perform various blocks (cut block, turn left/right, steamroller, etc.) would be enough.<br><br>EDIT: And if there's human refs, then there could also be a button for "hold him" or "grab his facemask"! -- View image here: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/forum/smilies/eyebrow.gif -- -- View image here: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/forum/smilies/devious.gif --
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Peldor:<br>Finding 5 smegheads who will block for you instead of committing a penalty every down would be tough. The game designers would have to put forth the effort to make playing each position interesting (some depth of play for the left guard position, etc.) </div>
</blockquote>
<br>I'm not a lineman (IRL), so I may be clueless on this one, but the excitement of playing a virtual guard would probably depend mostly upon two things: <br><br>1) How often you call running plays. <br>2) The style of the defense being faced (I'd imagine that facing a defense that calls a lot of exotic blitzes would be pretty interesting).<br><br>That being said, lineman shouldn't need anything gimmicky to make them more appealing. (Nobody claimed otherwise; I'm just speaking generally here.) I would think that tight controls and the ability to perform various blocks (cut block, turn left/right, steamroller, etc.) would be enough.<br><br>EDIT: And if there's human refs, then there could also be a button for "hold him" or "grab his facemask"! -- View image here: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/forum/smilies/eyebrow.gif -- -- View image here: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/forum/smilies/devious.gif --
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Counterstrike, for example, remains one of the most popular games online due to its fast action and reliance on good teamwork over button-mashing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You haven't played much CS on public servers, have you? The vast majority of online gamers (in any game) wouldn't know teamwork if they choked on it.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Anti-Klink:<BR>Does anyone have the full text for Alexander's comments? I'm curious as to what else he had to say... (but not so curious as to register with NYTimes). </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Bugmenot is your friend.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sulla:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Anti-Klink:<BR>Does anyone have the full text for Alexander's comments? I'm curious as to what else he had to say... (but not so curious as to register with NYTimes). </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Bugmenot is your friend. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Blocked (at work). But I didn't know that such a site existed... so you've earned yourself a cookie, my friend!
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by irving_forbush:<BR>Man, I gotta move to South Korea...<BR><BR>About Shaun's comments - you'd need the Internet to do this, because of your 11 friends, who's gonna want to be a lineman? ESPN glorifies the 'skill' positions (as if some positions don't require any skill at all) so much, you need access to people who may BE linemen in real life & want to work on the mental aspect of the game to get a full squad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>If you read the whole thing he said, and I paraphrase "or just control the skill positions and let the program control the other positions."<BR><BR>I think Shaun's statements were solid ideas, personally.
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Does having Shaun Alexander make the cover and then diss the game mean the Seahawks avoid the 'Madden Curse' this year? -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif --<br><br>Anyway, some interesting ideas, and the 'massively multiplayer sports game' probably will be developed by someone sometime. But it won't be called 'Madden'.<br><br>Madden sells like crazy and lots of people love it (though not alot of people here) so EA has absolutely no incentive to do more than update the graphics and roster and maybe tweak the gameplay a bit every year. At most, NFL fans could hope that EA use its licence to spin off another football title, possibly including some of the features Alexander described. But knowing what we know about EA, this is not likely.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by m666guy:<BR>if you have ten people who want to play madden.....just play real football. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>And it would require skill and pain tolerance that most people don't have.
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Since the 2001 edition, I've played multiplayer NHL (from EA) almost exclusively. My two roomies and I would often recruit a friend or three to come over and play 3-3 or whatever. It is a total blast and makes the somewhat lackluster NHL franchise that EA has regurgitated year after year much more enjoyable.
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By m666guy's reasoning, if I get 32 people to play Battlefield, I should just go shoot them with real guns. Or if I get 40 people to play WoW, I should ... LARP or something I guess.<BR><BR>Applying this formula, any time I'm involved in any group activity, I should go do something else entirely, because m666guy said so.<BR><BR>I hope the sarcasm here is thick enough.
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lol no i wasn't thinking of over the Internet and no where in my post did i say please extrapolate this reasoning with sports to every other video game xD.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by m666guy:<BR>lol no i wasn't thinking of over the Internet and no where in my post did i say please extrapolate this reasoning with sports to every other video game xD. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Still, its a bit rediculous considering the article. The guy is a professional football player, he does it all the time. Yet he still wants to play the videogame with 11 of his mates online.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Incarnate:<BR>EA doesn't have to listen to anyone. <B>They have no competition</B> </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>QFT, emphasis mine.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Still, its a bit rediculous considering the article. The guy is a professional football player, he does it all the time. Yet he still wants to play the videogame with 11 of his mates online. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Not to mention that most people can't throw much more than about 30 yards with any accuracy.
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Well the incentive to be an offensive lineman is that you'd be on the line while on defense, either tackling the running back or creaming the QB. Remember, you're only on offense about half the time, and I doubt anyone would want to be on a 22 man team, where you sit on the bench for half the game.<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And it would require skill and pain tolerance that most people don't have. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>And you'd need to have all 10 of your friends able to meet at the same location, as opposed to being able to field something like an Ars team from all across the planet.<BR><BR>One more reason why I <3 Shaun Alexander. The man is just an all around great guy.
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Impossible vision, you could never find enough reliable people to play on a consistent basis. It may work decently if you limited it to the skill positions though.<BR><BR>What if someone drops, or gets dumped? What if one loser is lagging out so bad it sucks for everyone else? Too many things can go wrong here.<BR><BR>But I just don't see EA pulling this off, mainly for lack of desire.
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<blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DogEars:<br>What if someone drops, or gets dumped? What if one loser is lagging out so bad it sucks for everyone else? Too many things can go wrong here. </div>
</blockquote>
<br><br>You just described every online game. Don't quote me on this, but I think a fair ammount of people live with these issues comfortably. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif --
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DogEars:<br>What if someone drops, or gets dumped? What if one loser is lagging out so bad it sucks for everyone else? Too many things can go wrong here. </div>
</blockquote>
<br><br>You just described every online game. Don't quote me on this, but I think a fair ammount of people live with these issues comfortably. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif --
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LOL. I thought this article was going to be about the Madden curse. <BR><BR>You just know that Alexander is going down with a season ending injury sometime this season.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DogEars:<BR>Impossible vision, you could never find enough reliable people to play on a consistent basis. It may work decently if you limited it to the skill positions though.<BR><BR>What if someone drops, or gets dumped? What if one loser is lagging out so bad it sucks for everyone else? Too many things can go wrong here.<BR><BR>But I just don't see EA pulling this off, mainly for lack of desire. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>That's the key lack of desire on EA's part. For instance, they had console versions of NASCAR and Tiger Woods with only two people able to play in the same game. Developers wanted to support 4-players on Tiger Woods, which given that it's turn-based, is not as technically daunting (Madden uses peer-to-peer connections and there's suggestion that keeping more than two consoles sync'd would be more difficult and reduce the reliability of the online play).<BR><BR>But execs. nixed it.<BR><BR>Yeah how does CS not have a problem supporting 32 players in the same game? Probably the server-client architecture?
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<blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DogEars:<br>Impossible vision, you could never find enough reliable people to play on a consistent basis. It may work decently if you limited it to the skill positions though.<br><br>What if someone drops, or gets dumped? What if one loser is lagging out so bad it sucks for everyone else? Too many things can go wrong here. </div>
</blockquote>
<br><br>I suppose the 40-man raids in World of Warcraft, which I attend 5-6 times a week, are a figment of my sleep-deprived imagination -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif -- <br><br>Yes, those are valid issues, but they are far from as crippling as you portray them.
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DogEars:<br>Impossible vision, you could never find enough reliable people to play on a consistent basis. It may work decently if you limited it to the skill positions though.<br><br>What if someone drops, or gets dumped? What if one loser is lagging out so bad it sucks for everyone else? Too many things can go wrong here. </div>
</blockquote>
<br><br>I suppose the 40-man raids in World of Warcraft, which I attend 5-6 times a week, are a figment of my sleep-deprived imagination -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif -- <br><br>Yes, those are valid issues, but they are far from as crippling as you portray them.
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Ultimate basebell online has tried this. I gave a shot at beta a few years ago. It was fun, but the graphics were rough, probably to not having a major financial backing. Web site is still up, so it must be alive and kicking...<BR><BR> http://www.ultimatebaseballonline.com/
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LAG.<BR><BR>you can code around it, and i guess there isn't going to be a lot of particles needing updating all over the place, but the main problem is not everyone having 10ms pings.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But execs. nixed it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Well, EA has never figured out online as far as I'm concerned. There must be some antisocial piece of shit working there, because anytime there's a feature that works well for some kind of league, they fuck it up. They still haven't managed to have leagues as good as the 2k series.<BR><BR>Hell, back in 95 they had a league feature for NHL 95. Rocked. You could have 20something people play a team each if you wanted to. AWESOME. My bro and I each had a team, my friends and I all had teams, it was good. NHL 96? You could pick one team, but 3 different people could each have their own season. WTF, who cares about that crap?
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pToast:<BR><BR>Still, its a bit rediculous considering the article. The guy is a professional football player, he does it all the time. Yet he still wants to play the videogame with 11 of his mates online. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Have you ever seen an episode of 'cribs' with a pro football player? They're all crazy about Madden. Most football players grew up playing Madden since they were adolescents. They probably know more about the series than most of the people working at EA. Madden is *THE* video game among inner-city kids in America, which many football players are. When people talk about gaming hitting the mainstream, Madden is the driving force behind that.<BR><BR>Plus, if someone made a video game and you and your buddies were in it, wouldn't you want to play it? If for no other reason than to give yourself 120 touchdowns, 5000 yards rushing and 10,000 yards recieving.
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