Lucid announces midsize EV platform, says profitability lies with SUVs
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I wish them the best of luck, but I feel their prospects depend on how long the Saudis are willing to burn cash hand-over-fist.
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targetnovember
Ars Scholae Palatinae
The headline sounds like "most obvious statement made on an automaker's investors' call ever" type of statement unless your car company name is Ferrari or Lamborghini.
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I find buying an EV from the Saudis as distasteful as buying one from Elon, and I'm certain that's a common sentiment.
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When you make a SUV you increase the height by 30%, which increases drag 30%. They always make worse EVs with significantly less range, or more battery expense. These cars should be longer, not taller.
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add any vehicle to that list, and where they source parts from and you might as well get a horse, providing the Saudi's didn't breed it
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Well, good thing the US remains the steadfast strategic and geopolitical partner of the Gulf states and hasn't done anything to make them reconsider their investment strategy lately or anyth-
hold on, someone is passing me a note
uh
well
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I don't know if there's still time for non traditional companies to establish themselves.
BMW just launched the new iX3 and it's just excellent. Volvo is launching the EX60. Others are doing similar moves.
Also Lucid seems focused on the one market where everything is being done to undermine BEVs and where Tesla is likely to maintain a stronger grip.
BMW just launched the new iX3 and it's just excellent. Volvo is launching the EX60. Others are doing similar moves.
Also Lucid seems focused on the one market where everything is being done to undermine BEVs and where Tesla is likely to maintain a stronger grip.
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When you make an SUV, you increase the height by 30%, which increases interior volume, hip point, and enables more space in every published metric, comparing crossovers and cars on the same platforms. They always make better family cars with more room for passengers and cargo, that are easier to get in and out of.
Like, Jesus Christ, y'all, come on. This is not a novel observation. Every vehicle comes with tradeoffs. Very few buyers need or want to optimize for one attribute above all others. We know perfectly well crossovers are less efficient; a simple comparison of specs makes it very obvious. But buyers are willing to sacrifice optimized efficiency and a few dozen miles of range for the other things that make a crossover a practical family car. Don't expect people who need to haul dogs, kids, rear-facing child seats, and gear to accept vehicles that fail to accommodate those things in exchange for advantages they don't really care about. And until there's a 185in long minivan for me to consider, don't bring those up either.
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Tesla isn't maintaining a stronger grip in the US; their sales are in freefall. And presumably Lucid is shooting for volume European sales with a more suitable and smaller vehicle than the Air and Gravity.
But....yeah. I think Lucid is ultimately valuable for its tech and IP, not its future sales. They've put a lot of attention into drivetrain efficiency and overall range - but I think ultimately, they'll get absorbed by one of the bigger existing OEMs and that IP used to improve that company's portfolio.
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Correction; profitability lies with cars that don't cost almost as much as a new house.
I'm baffled at the fact that Lucid is still in business
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I think this is a worrying sign. Announcing a bunch of semi-vapor products that don't differentiate significantly from the rest of the market but somehow are a path to righting the ship is direct from the struggling automaker playbook. I'd read this as the investors are nervous enough to be talking about pulling the plug and management is doing the best dog and pony show they can to prevent it. This isn't all Lucid either, the market has shifted and they didn't start from a strong position... so I don't see much of a path for them across the gap until EV sales pick up again. I genuinely hope Lucid succeeds, truly I do, but they're working their way on to Ars's deathwatch list in my mind.
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High volume, but around $50K, that doesn't compute.
around $50k you don't get high volume. You get high volume on around $40k or even lower.
I know that they say lower than $50k, but if they were aiming for $45k, they would say that.
around $50k you don't get high volume. You get high volume on around $40k or even lower.
I know that they say lower than $50k, but if they were aiming for $45k, they would say that.
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Really, you're unaware of profitable luxury automobile brands? Also, which of the announced vehicles cost as much as a new house?
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What I would like is the EV equivalent of an old Subaru Baja. No internet connection, no phone home. Car Play or a standard unit with a DIN2 chassis. A car like they used to be 15-20 years ago, but with an electric motor. With something like that, it would be: "Please take my money".
But who am I kidding? That will never happen in this timeline.
But who am I kidding? That will never happen in this timeline.
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With the two door "cybercab", did they consider people with mobility issues? If you are in a wheelchair, would you be able to take a cab ride without getting help from anyone?
Musk didn't consider them for one second...
Musk didn't consider them for one second...
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I know I'm probably more skeptical of the things executives say to investors than most, but this here....
...is some of the emptiest, most marketing-brained nonsense I have ever heard, and if I was controlling lots of other people's money, especially other people who have goons with bone saws at their disposal, I would not put lots of dollars or my bodily integrity on the line on the strength of that bullshit.
I think your read is basically accurate. The Gravity will help, but only so much, and frankly, I think it's insane they didn't start with SUVs/crossovers to start with.
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Have they said what 'high volume' is to them?
Could be selling 10k vehicles is 'high volume'.
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The average new car in the US is over $50,000 in 2025.
https://carbuzz.com/average-vehicle-price-record-2025/
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Except for the internet connection, you want a Tata, like the Nexon. or one of the new Daihatsu BEVs. Both are simple, function updates of previous models. Sadly, every new car calls home so you’ll have to roll your own BEV conversion or buy an older Prius and replace the battery sled if you want to be completely offline.
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We have models for “trendsetting achievers” and “upscale nurturers.” Oh woe is me I'm feeling more like a trendsetting nurturer today. The marketing is more gagging than the usual car crap talk. Makes me nostalgic for SUVs flying off sand dunes and pickup trucks pulling freight trains.
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How about, instead of competing with everyone else for a small slice of the pie, you go balls out for the underrepresented one? Shrink that schematic down to the small-SUV (NOT A WAGON, THAT APPARENTLY WON'T SELL) and grow your market share there.
Radical, I know.
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That’s one take, sure. The alternative is that Lucid knows the high end is only 10 percent of the market but midsize SUVs are now 50 percent of the market and it makes sense to try and get a slice of that.
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Then I expect you to put your money where your mouth is and buy a Slate.
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Until people get bored with them or they become socially unacceptable. It'll happen.
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The average new car last year cost $50,000. Y’all really need to update your priors.
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This is the real point here.
I want Lucid to succeed, but talking about cybertaxis, autonomous and AI is just an attempt to goose up their rather sad stock price.
They actually need, right now, something similar to what Rivian are actually putting into production.
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It's a long shot but if I were the CEO of Honda I'd be watching Lucid carefully. Buy it up before it craters and then put Lucid into a product development cycle for five years while EV demand recovers, use them as an in-house EV engineering consultancy during that time, and support current Lucid owners to retain some loyalty. Relaunch Lucid as the EV sub-brand under the Honda umbrella. Play to the EV engineering and funky styling strengths of Lucid to keep the adopter and wants-to-be-seen-in-an-EV crowd and use Honda's supply chain and optimization strengths to make it profitable and more importantly reliable. Mercedes could be a good play too but they don't have the same gaps.
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I too have started to see a bunch of Gravities around. There were always a handful of Lucid Airs in the area, but all of a sudden, I'm tripping over Gravities.
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Who cares about losers?
-some South African Randian billionaire confidence trickster, probably.
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Are you kidding? I'd buy the hell out of that compared to the current spyware tablets on wheels. The only upcoming EV I am even considering is the Slate, and we'll see if it ever comes to fruition.
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I see you long shot Honda + Lucid culture fit and engineering excellence. BUT the engineers would be low man on totem pole shortly out of a job.
Subaru another long shot may be aligned philosophically and respectfully engineer nerds. BOTH shops are conservative but Subaru has the 4x4 chops missing only the scale that Lucid brings to its design team.
Toyota would be pissed but not as much as you might guess that they'd respect the independence, marque growth path and irony of all the oil money going into a tech company.
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Where they depend specifically on a non-car body type, I wonder.
“Today, we’re keeping the same Lucid product and technology DNA intact, while applying increased scale, capital efficiency, and cost discipline, and materially reduced costs, to enable a great business with a clear and credible path to profitability and free cash flow, supported by what we are executing now and what we are building for the future,” said Marc Winterhoff, interim CEO at Lucid."
I'd long known that the Big 3 automakers boosted profits and size of vehicle because the bigger vehicles, while more wasteful, were more profitable. I also did know that pickups and SUVs were not subject to the gas-guzzler tax that still exists today. But the most recent video from Climate Town also explains that the "not a car" body type also saves on costs because of reduced safety requirements.
If that's true, is Lucid simply following the gas-guzzlers by profiting from selling a roughly-similar interior size but with reduced costs based on a less-regulated body type letting them avoid some safety engineering? Or is it based on the same logic the carmaker quoted in the video notes - that customers are willing to pay thousands more when even a smaller or mid-sized car just gets the "SUV" body treatment?
Climate Town: How Your Parents Ruined Driving
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm4de6-eTg
“Today, we’re keeping the same Lucid product and technology DNA intact, while applying increased scale, capital efficiency, and cost discipline, and materially reduced costs, to enable a great business with a clear and credible path to profitability and free cash flow, supported by what we are executing now and what we are building for the future,” said Marc Winterhoff, interim CEO at Lucid."
I'd long known that the Big 3 automakers boosted profits and size of vehicle because the bigger vehicles, while more wasteful, were more profitable. I also did know that pickups and SUVs were not subject to the gas-guzzler tax that still exists today. But the most recent video from Climate Town also explains that the "not a car" body type also saves on costs because of reduced safety requirements.
If that's true, is Lucid simply following the gas-guzzlers by profiting from selling a roughly-similar interior size but with reduced costs based on a less-regulated body type letting them avoid some safety engineering? Or is it based on the same logic the carmaker quoted in the video notes - that customers are willing to pay thousands more when even a smaller or mid-sized car just gets the "SUV" body treatment?
Climate Town: How Your Parents Ruined Driving
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm4de6-eTg
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Yeah, same. I think my EV buying habits will be similar to my gas powered car purchases. Keep it Japanese or Korean.
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Whoever first moves away from these large tablet screens and returns to tactile console controls is going to make a killing.
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