Kerbal Space Program

[grendelmk1]

wittigjr[/url]":1i47low2]

grendelmk1[/url]":1i47low2]

.劉煒[/url]":1i47low2]If you're living that much mass, you can always dock it with a space tug a bit at a time if you engineer it to undock itself in orbit.

You don't understand. That was ONE piece of a station. The smallest section massed about 16 tons, and was dirt easy to move. Quite a few bits were 50-90 tons. My tankers tend to mass about 70 on arrival with full tanks. All up, the total assembly is damn near 500 tons. And pulling it apart in orbit means docking a multiplicity of poorly balanced 30+ ton modules with no RCS of their own, so it's all flywheel-stabilised translation from way off the CG. Which is messy in its own way, and takes all fucking WEEK. Since you can't put more than 2 rings on a tug, it's especially un-pretty.

I'd like it if the controls scaled gracefully. If that tank array flew like the RCS rings were 2x 3-KN rings, it would be fine. Or give me some 5 KN RCS clusters.

Have you tried turning ASAS on while leaving RCS off? Most things you build seem to be able to rotate themselves without RCS a little bit. I've done this to deal with the twirling in orbit problem.

That's not the problem I build 1 or more SAS into everything I loft for exactly that reason. That giant fuel module had 4, for instance. It's when I try to translate (and use ASAS to compensate for the inevitable imperfections in balance) that things get freaky.

Which really sucks when you build a lifter to put a 4-pack of docking tugs and a service/docking ring up, and you can't turn off the RCS on the tugs. That one turned out to be pretty well unflyable.

 

[Chuckaluphagus]

Let it not be said that I leave my Kerbals to die alone in the vast, cold, icky darkness of space.

(I may let them starve for 110 days, though.)

Spoiler

Saying "Hi!" to the Mün on our way back in:

Coming in through the atmosphere:

I did remember to pack a parachute this time:

Flight log is all screwed up:

Pretty sure I was way, way further out than 2.15 million meters.

All in all, this is the hardest thing I've pulled off in KSP so far. Of course, I was never meaning to send Ferald Kerman out so far or for so long in the first place, but I learned a ton in the process of bringing him home.

I do find I now have "A three hour tour ..." stuck in my head, though.

 

[Anzig]

.劉煒[/url]":23pr8keq]Also, what's the best way to land a rover?

I've had good results with the skycrane approach that wilt57 mentioned.

Approach two has been to use a landing gear & wheel combo. The LG take the impact shock, then retract above the wheels.

Spoiler

Rover with LG:

Another way that's been fun is going for a soft landing from orbit right onto the wheels. If the touchdown velocity is under 6 m/s the wheels can usually take the impact.

Spoiler

Maximus on Minimus:

What can I say, I just had to make something with the ginormous wheels!

 

[ferzerp]

.劉煒[/url]":3mj5uxjl]Also, what's the best way to land a rover?

It can also be fun to vertically orient it on top of a pod and then topple the pod (with legs on one side) and shoot it off as the pod falls.


Except the part where you then have to chase it down........

Spoiler

 

[Bad Monkey!]

.劉煒[/url]":2cathfb2]A orientation trick is doing a spin around the target vector while flying manually.

 

[Mazlem]

wilt57[/url]":2ywn1ej7]I was curious what kind of designs some of you guys are using make interplanetary voyages? More specifically, your NERVA per fuel weight ratios. I know I can do it with only 1 NERVA and any amount of fuel and that each additional NERVA I add reduces my "range", to use an inadequate space term, so what's the happy balance?

On my latest ships I've got multiple nerva's and 1-2 regular 200/215 thrust ones. The higher-thrust engines get turned on for launching from orbit or braking for an orbit, then turned off for orbital maneuvers. KSS Vincible used to have all 215-thrust engines but was recently retrofitted with nervas.

Spoiler

Slim Piggens

KSS Vincible

 

[Mortus]

It begins.

Mortus Sucks At: Kerbal Space Program [1]

 

[wilt57]

Mazlem[/url]":382xdocg]On my latest ships I've got multiple nerva's and 1-2 regular 200/215 thrust ones. The higher-thrust engines get turned on for launching from orbit or braking for an orbit, then turned off for orbital maneuvers. KSS Vincible used to have all 215-thrust engines but was recently retrofitted with nervas.

I really like the look of those ships! I've changed my approach to more of a utilitarian style to keep part count down and as long as aerodynamics are the way they are currently, I don't care about fairings and nose cones and such, but they do make stuff look better. I have experimented with putting a Poodle engine on some ships that I use for the interplanetary burn only, but I don't think I had the mass to make them worth it. I think eventually they might be a good help, just not on the smaller ships I'm still roaming with. Out of curiosity, how much TWR and D-v does Vincible have? Thanks!

 

[ferzerp]

Just to make sure you know, those cones are not just cosmetic, they actually make your ship perform worse by adding extra weight and increasing drag.

Unless you're running FAR.

 

[dmsilev]

Mortus[/url]":2ku4m938]It begins.

Mortus Sucks At: Kerbal Space Program [1]

That ...didn't end well.

If it's any consolation, your first rocket probably would have made it to orbit if you had flown a somewhat better trajectory.

 

[Magus`]

Mortus[/url]":1t1i2gjs]It begins.

You know fuel lines don't work with solid boosters, right?

 

[daishi5]

Magus`[/url]":31gqn8qa]

Mortus[/url]":31gqn8qa]It begins.

You know fuel lines don't work with solid boosters, right?

Seriously? I need to watch this apparently.

We also need to not tell him all the things he does wrong, because it might lead to him eventually becoming competent, which will ruin the fun.

 

[wilt57]

ferzerp[/url]":28ez980h]Just to make sure you know, those cones are not just cosmetic, they actually make your ship perform worse by adding extra weight and increasing drag.

Unless you're running FAR.

Yeah, I know. I don't use nose cones on anything, but I do use the 1.25m to 2.5m adapters, just for looks. They hinder performance just like the nose cones do. For some reason I can tolerate flat fronts on my boosters, but my orbiters need clean lines. I know, I'm weird. Good thing is, when they redo aerodynamics, nose cones will be very easy additions. Utility of extensive asparagus builds? Don't know

 

[RyricKrael]

daishi5[/url]":dddhfk08]

Magus`[/url]":dddhfk08]

Mortus[/url]":dddhfk08]It begins.

You know fuel lines don't work with solid boosters, right?

Seriously? I need to watch this apparently.

We also need to not tell him all the things he does wrong, because it might lead to him eventually becoming competent, which will ruin the fun.

Well that... And you don't want fuel lines if all the tanks are the same size, using the same engine and attached to each other without the ability to seperate. The result would be your middle engine running longer then the outside engines making them straight dead weight and killing your TWR.

 

[Magus`]

daishi5[/url]":17vygq89]We also need to not tell him all the things he does wrong, because it might lead to him eventually becoming competent, which will ruin the fun.

But the fuel line application wastes so much time that could be used for exploding! (I've resisted mentioning many other things )

 

[RyricKrael]

This is what we need in KSP (and some way to zap junk). http://meincmagazine.com/science/2013/05/ ... pace-junk/

I have a few upper stages in orbits that are dangerously close to space stations.

 

[ferzerp]

It was pretty obvious he was confusing fuel lines with struts. They were placed sanely (sort of) for struts, but fuel lines don't really hold anything together.

Also, trying to increase his periapsis by burning retrograde at apoapsis was interesting.

 

[.劉煒]

You can also change junk persistence to 0.

 

[Mortus]

ferzerp[/url]":2lfbkfnx]It was pretty obvious he was confusing fuel lines with struts. They were placed sanely (sort of) for struts, but fuel lines don't really hold anything together.

Also, trying to increase his periapsis by burning retrograde at apoapsis was interesting.

Yeah, someone in the comment section mentioned I was using fuel lines as ties lol. And I just got the symbols confused for the burn. Tonight will be round 2, and I have some ideas for proper changes.

 

[dmsilev]

RyricKrael[/url]":1en6ygao]This is what we need in KSP (and some way to zap junk). http://meincmagazine.com/science/2013/05/ ... pace-junk/

I have a few upper stages in orbits that are dangerously close to space stations.

I usually just edit the save files. Has anyone suggested to NASA that they try that?

 

[RyricKrael]

.劉煒[/url]":zyqj5p7a]You can also change junk persistence to 0.

What is the effect of that change? Does it remove all current junk or does it delete junk almost as soon as it becomes "junk" by being jettisoned?

 

[ferzerp]

RyricKrael[/url]":2l9pbmh0]

.劉煒[/url]":2l9pbmh0]You can also change junk persistence to 0.

What is the effect of that change? Does it remove all current junk or does it delete junk almost as soon as it becomes "junk" by being jettisoned?

There is a range that debris can be within your current ship that doesn't count as space junk yet. Once the debris exits that range, it gets deleted (IIRC). Or, I'm confused, and it deletes it once you swap to a new ship, or something.

It isn't jarring anyway. I leave mine on 0 because it was making the map almost impossible to use.

 

[Deleted member 4603]

So... any news on when Campaign mode is going to happen?

I bought the game and it is fun to screw around with rockets, but I'd love a campaign where you have limited funds and have to go from the first test launches to satellites to manned probe to Mun landing to the Shuttle Program and a space station and then onwards!

 

[Anzig]

Mortus[/url]":hf1jf2ho]Yeah, someone in the comment section mentioned I was using fuel lines as ties lol. And I just got the symbols confused for the burn. Tonight will be round 2, and I have some ideas for proper changes.

Episode 1 was pure awesome. I laughed, I cried.
Now you need to plan a mission to rescue Jeb from the arctic!

FYI: The boxy bits floating near the rocket nozzle were the fuel line connection points that are left after staging.

 

[ahunter]

One of the problems with getting large amounts of stuff to Jool is that you need lots of fuel. The last mission needed 3x the large tank to get everything there, which meant doing 3 launches just for the fuel. Obviously the solution is more boosters. Many more boosters:

Spoiler

Now that's a mighty bucket o' boom. What it loses in looks, it makes up for in lifting power (4 of the largest fuel tanks, completely full + 4 of the largest RCS tanks + a tug to move it to wherever there is a boom shortage).

While building this I had a revelation. There is only one place for a command pod, and that is on the bottom of the rocket. You see, normally kerbalnauts can't actually see what's going on. They just rely on the distant sounds of explosions to know that everything is going to plan. I think this causes stress. If the capsule is on the bottom, however, they can see the explosions as well. Also they're closer to them so they can hear them better too. I think this will finally keep Bob calm.

Spoiler

An additional bonus is that if things explode more than usual, detatching the boosters allows the entire rocket to fly away, ensuring the crew capsule can enjoy an uneventful plummet to the ground (but thanks to an advanced building technique known to scientists as 'all the struts' this can never actually happen)

 

[Mazlem]

wilt57[/url]":1rk6ludh]

Mazlem[/url]":1rk6ludh]On my latest ships I've got multiple nerva's and 1-2 regular 200/215 thrust ones. The higher-thrust engines get turned on for launching from orbit or braking for an orbit, then turned off for orbital maneuvers. KSS Vincible used to have all 215-thrust engines but was recently retrofitted with nervas.

I really like the look of those ships! I've changed my approach to more of a utilitarian style to keep part count down and as long as aerodynamics are the way they are currently, I don't care about fairings and nose cones and such, but they do make stuff look better. I have experimented with putting a Poodle engine on some ships that I use for the interplanetary burn only, but I don't think I had the mass to make them worth it. I think eventually they might be a good help, just not on the smaller ships I'm still roaming with. Out of curiosity, how much TWR and D-v does Vincible have? Thanks!

The KSS Vincible has a TWR of 1.4 when full of fuel; it's 109 tons. With all engines firing it's deltaV is about 4400, and with just the nervas it's ~7100. Guess it'd be a frigate-class or somethin? Slim Piggens is more of a galaxy-class ship I suppose; it out-performs Vincible with a TWR of 7 and ~400 more deltaV.

 

[Cabusha]

Weeeelp, I managed to put a Kerbal into an orbit around the Sun. Was experimenting with a multistage rocket utilizing asparagus fueling, and ended up with a really nice, long burn time. Wasn't paying too much attention to how far I traveled, and ended up pushing him out of Kerbal's gravity well! Going to have to contemplate rescue options. Haven't even visited the moon yet, so this should be interesting...

Spoiler

The Agamemnon Class, in all it's glory!

Brave, Brave Danbin. He's holding up well.

Why stress when you can go for a walk?

Yeah..It's going to be a while before he comes back....

 

[Duodecimal]

I've had upper stages for moon missions eventually get ejected into Kerbol orbit. My spacejunk problem was becoming a system-wide issue.

But I screwed something up moving saves over for the Steam install directory and lost my 3-year (ingame time) game. Several operating Kethane refineries, the first 8-man cruiser scouting Jool for the next refinery installation, full communication networks around Kerbin and Duna with two space command stations, orbiting Kerbin and Minmus, and my 2nd 8-man cruiser monitoring the Duna operation preparing for a permanent remote command station.

 

[Chuckaluphagus]

Cabusha[/url]":vfwskwch]Weeeelp, I managed to put a Kerbal into an orbit around the Sun. Was experimenting with a multistage rocket utilizing asparagus fueling, and ended up with a really nice, long burn time. Wasn't paying too much attention to how far I traveled, and ended up pushing him out of Kerbal's gravity well! Going to have to contemplate rescue options. Haven't even visited the moon yet, so this should be interesting...

Spoiler

The Agamemnon Class, in all it's glory!

Brave, Brave Danbin. He's holding up well.

Why stress when you can go for a walk?

Yeah..It's going to be a while before he comes back....

This same thing just happened to me earlier in the week (posted about it above). How much fuel do you have left? If you've got a good amount, and you're patient (i.e. willing to leave Danbin up there for a damn long time), you should be able to get him back home again.

 

[ferzerp]

Chuckaluphagus[/url]":1mebgugm]

Cabusha[/url]":1mebgugm]Weeeelp, I managed to put a Kerbal into an orbit around the Sun. Was experimenting with a multistage rocket utilizing asparagus fueling, and ended up with a really nice, long burn time. Wasn't paying too much attention to how far I traveled, and ended up pushing him out of Kerbal's gravity well! Going to have to contemplate rescue options. Haven't even visited the moon yet, so this should be interesting...

Spoiler

The Agamemnon Class, in all it's glory!

Brave, Brave Danbin. He's holding up well.

Why stress when you can go for a walk?

Yeah..It's going to be a while before he comes back....

This same thing just happened to me earlier in the week (posted about it above). How much fuel do you have left? If you've got a good amount, and you're patient (i.e. willing to leave Danbin up there for a damn long time), you should be able to get him back home again.

It's actually not that hard to leave kerbin's SOI. You can have the following in an unmanned pod:
Stage1:1 jet, 1 tank of jet fuel, intakes, some fins for lift
Stage 2: one of the smaller SRBS

And that will take you in to an orbit around the sun.

 

[daishi5]

I just sent some copies of this to a few friends I hooked on KSP, and I realized a lot of people may not have read through the entire thread, so I thought it deserved to be shown to anyone new. I present Banzai51's masterpiece:

Banzai51[/url]":1ecostzq]

Oh my god
Becky, look at that booster
Its so big
It looks like one of those NASA guys realdolls
Who understands those NASA guys
They only program it because they're drooling nerds
I mean that booster
It's just so, big
I can't believe it's so aerodynamic
It just gets out of there
I mean, it's so much gross weight
Look, its just so, powerful

*rap*
I like big boosters and I can not lie
You other Kerbals can't deny
That when a ship launchs with an itty bitty pace
And Kerbals hoping for space
You get sprung
Wanna pull up tough
Cuz you notice that booster was stuffed
Deep in the cockpit Bill is swearing
I'm hooked and I can't stop relaunching
Oh, baby I wanna build bigga'
And take your picture
My homeboys tried to warn me
But that booster you got
Make Me so nerdy
Ooh, rump of smooth fuel tanks
You say you wanna get in space
Well use me use me cuz you aint that average space herpy

I've seen them expodin'
To hell with gravity well
It's Sweat,Wet, got it goin like a turbo vette

I'm tired of magazines
Saying safe boosters make for happy
Take the average NASA man and ask him that
Its gotta pack much velocity

So Kerbals (yeah) Kerbals(yeah)
Has your spaceship got the boosters (hell yeah)
Well launch it, shake it, upthrottle it, stage it, blast that shaky booster
Baby got boost

(Cape Canaveral face with Star City booty)

I like'em round and big
And when I'm throwin a launch gig
I just can't help myself
I'm actin like a Cosmonaut
Now here's my scandal

I wanna get you staged
And thrust, double up thrust thrust
I aint talkin bout SpaceShipOne
Cuz silicone parts were made for toys
I wannem real big and thrusty
So find that escape velocity
Bob's in trouble
Beggin for a piece of that rumble
So I'm lookin' at rocket videos
Overheating these solid boosters Staging like Saturn Vs
You can have them Shuttles
I'll keep my ships like Vostok
A word to the big thrust towers
I wanna blast off with ya
I won't overheat or ditch ya
But I gotta be straight when I say I wanna orbit
Til the break of dawn
Baby Got it lifting up
Alot of nerds won't like this song
Cuz them punks lie and troll the forums
But I'd rather launch and play
Cuz my boost is long and strong
And I'm down to get the weightless on

So Kerbalnaughts (yeah), Kerbalnaughts (yeah)
Do you wanna roll in my Orbiter Mk III? (yeah)
Then turn around
Sit on down
Even Jebediah got to shout
Baby got boost

(Solid rocket booster with liquid cooling)

Yeah baby
When it comes to boosters
The FAA ain't got nothin to do with my selection
60 Km and 2300 m/s?
Only if I'm orbiting

So your buddy rolls in a ramjet
Playin lecture tapes by Von Braun
But Von Braun ain't got a booster in the back of his ramjet
My Kerbalaughts don't want none unless you've got boost hun
You can do ion engines or nuclear, but please don't lose that boost
Some nerds wanna play that hard role
And tell you that manned spaceflight ain't gold
So they toss it and leave it
And I pull up quick to relaunch it
So NASA says you're fat
Well I got extra thrust for that
Cuz your fuel tanks is large and your rockets are kickin
And I'm thinkin bout quad couplers
To the unmanned probes in the magazines
You aint it miss thing
Give me a Kerbal I can't resist launching her
Low orbit and gable controls did miss her
Some knucklehead tried to dis
Cuz his rockets were on my list
He had game but he chose to dump 'em
And I pulled up quick to attach 'em
So Kerbal if the booster is loud
And you wanna accelerate past the clouds
Surf to http://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com and kick them nasty rockets
Baby got boost
Baby got boost
Fuel in tha middle but she got much thrust x4

 

[wilt57]

ahunter[/url]":1hcbpifj]While building this I had a revelation. There is only one place for a command pod, and that is on the bottom of the rocket. You see, normally kerbalnauts can't actually see what's going on. They just rely on the distant sounds of explosions to know that everything is going to plan. I think this causes stress. If the capsule is on the bottom, however, they can see the explosions as well. Also they're closer to them so they can hear them better too. I think this will finally keep Bob calm.

I have designed a couple builds that place the CM on the bottom, a puller of sorts,

but I used probes...

On a side note, I was doing some Isp testing. Turns out the LV-N rocket gets 370 @ roughly 1700m, 390 @ 1800m, and @10km its Isp is already 725! It got me thinking that I can start using my NERVAs as early as 2000m or so. Still poor TWR, but if they're not covered up by additional tanks and engines, at least they are helping counteract their would-be dead weight. Turns out their poor atmo Isp of 220 (or whatever it is) isn't all that big of a deal after all. Also, although I need to do some testing with them individually, the Aerospike's atmo advantage over the LV-T30 may not be as big a deal as I thought. Keeping Aerospikes on past 2000m could be hurting performance. Well, just had to ramble a bit on my experiments!

 

[Cabusha]

Chuckaluphagus[/url]":mvs00d3w]

Cabusha[/url]":mvs00d3w]Weeeelp, I managed to put a Kerbal into an orbit around the Sun. Was experimenting with a multistage rocket utilizing asparagus fueling, and ended up with a really nice, long burn time. Wasn't paying too much attention to how far I traveled, and ended up pushing him out of Kerbal's gravity well! Going to have to contemplate rescue options. Haven't even visited the moon yet, so this should be interesting...

Spoiler

The Agamemnon Class, in all it's glory!

Brave, Brave Danbin. He's holding up well.

Why stress when you can go for a walk?

Yeah..It's going to be a while before he comes back....

This same thing just happened to me earlier in the week (posted about it above). How much fuel do you have left? If you've got a good amount, and you're patient (i.e. willing to leave Danbin up there for a damn long time), you should be able to get him back home again.

Unfortunately I already ejected the engine, and there's no RCS or docking ports. Rescue will have to involve a space walk! On that note, can you launch the larger modules without a full crew compliment? EG 2/3 max kerbals?

 

[ferzerp]

Yes, but currently the only way to do it is to EVA them and leave them behind at the KSC after you put your rocket on the launch pad.

*or*

Make ships with two pods, and move the guy between pods. The base pod of your ship will always get a full crew when you click launch to leave the build shop though.

 

[daishi5]

Cabusha[/url]":1cef4b13]

Chuckaluphagus[/url]":1cef4b13]

Cabusha[/url]":1cef4b13]Weeeelp, I managed to put a Kerbal into an orbit around the Sun. Was experimenting with a multistage rocket utilizing asparagus fueling, and ended up with a really nice, long burn time. Wasn't paying too much attention to how far I traveled, and ended up pushing him out of Kerbal's gravity well! Going to have to contemplate rescue options. Haven't even visited the moon yet, so this should be interesting...

Spoiler

The Agamemnon Class, in all it's glory!

Brave, Brave Danbin. He's holding up well.

Why stress when you can go for a walk?

Yeah..It's going to be a while before he comes back....

This same thing just happened to me earlier in the week (posted about it above). How much fuel do you have left? If you've got a good amount, and you're patient (i.e. willing to leave Danbin up there for a damn long time), you should be able to get him back home again.

Unfortunately I already ejected the engine, and there's no RCS or docking ports. Rescue will have to involve a space walk! On that note, can you launch the larger modules without a full crew compliment? EG 2/3 max kerbals?

You either need to add extra crew modules, or use the Mod called "crew manifest" or something close to that. The first crew module is always full, but extra crew modules are empty. The hitchhiker container can also carry up to 4 kerbals.

You could also just put a ladder on the side and have him hold on to the side of the ship for the trip back. (This is probably the best suggestion.)

 

[Fidel Cashflow]

I...

I am going to try that.

 

[Decoherent]

Holy crap I landed on the Mun without exploding! Granted, I had some sideways motion and tipped over, so Jeb is a permanent resident, but still. Question though, why did my altimeter read 2,000m when I was at the surface? I expected a couple thousand meters to tweak my descent.

 

[ComradeXavier]

Cabusha[/url]":3e48eagi]On that note, can you launch the larger modules without a full crew compliment? EG 2/3 max kerbals?

If the 'command' module you pick is a probe body, you can then add a crew capsule of any kind, and it will be empty when you launch the ship. This is what I've done when I want to send up a lander that I can dock to and push around until I transfer crew from my orbital vehicle for a landing. Just be careful to have some kind of electric power for the probe body, or you'll be unable to control the ship.

 

[RyricKrael]

Glenn[/url]":1dmcar8d]Holy crap I landed on the Mun without exploding! Granted, I had some sideways motion and tipped over, so Jeb is a permanent resident, but still. Question though, why did my altimeter read 2,000m when I was at the surface? I expected a couple thousand meters to tweak my descent.

If you are sideways use your landing gear (retract / extend) and RCS. You should be able to right yourself due to the moons gravity (thanks to Mazlem for that trick).

As far as the altimeter...I don't rely on that too much. It is showing your altitude above sea level (not sure how that is calculated on the Mun). MechJeb has a few different measurements that are better. I think there is a surface altitude as well as a time to impact and time to suicide burn that are useful for landing.

 

[daishi5]

Yes, the altimeter is distance above sea level. If you hit "c" you will get the IVA view from inside the vehicle, and that has a radar altimeter which will give you the much more useful "distance from impact."