Job postings suggest Apple Maps may finally get public transit directions

New positions on the "Transit Routing team" are a strong indication.

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[Ryoshi]

Will they fix the actual map data, though? Of the times I've used Apple Maps in the last month, it directed me to the correct location exactly once. Every other time, it's pointed me to the right area, where "area" is defined as anywhere within a mile of my destination...which is entirely less than helpful.

I seriously thought the hubbub about Apple Maps being terrible was just hyperbole, since I didn't use maps very often to begin with. But it's actually astoundingly bad.

edit: Love the downvotes. Seriously, Apple Maps is a really bad product that has only improved marginally since its release. I know people have weird rabid brand loyalty over Apple stuff but that doesn't change the fact that a map that gives you incorrect locations and directions is completely useless as a map.

 

[Janeazy]

Sounds like they need some help building the world's best Transit Routing platform. Hopefully they'll hire away Google's employees!

 

[Phil Ta]

How about they start by showing which subway lines actually stop at subway stations in NYC? All I can tell now from Apple's maps is that there's a subways station present, and still have use Google Maps or pull up a subway map app to figure out which subway goes there. Completely useless for over a year now.

 

[ackmondual]

A couple of friends who were using Iph4s a couple years ago were saying that while the Maps app was good for finding things, it wasn't any good at providing navigation. One of them ended up paying $30 for a 3rd party app to fill that need. I have a coworker who paid $60 for a Magellan app. AFAIK, some iOS users can sitll get around just fine, but others do wish maps was improved.

I hate to turn this into yet another And vs. iOS debate, but this was one part And did better. I was blown away how well navigation software worked right out of the box on my old Samsung Galaxy s2 (And 2.3.6), which was better than the most up to date thing that Apple had even later. It got even better on my gs4 using And 4.2.2. I also like how an upate allowed you to double tap+move up or down and hold to scroll up or down to zoom in/out.... WITH JUST ONE FINGER! This essentially lets you use the map software one-handed, making it much more usable than ever.

EDIT: added a bit to the part just before that's all caps, as well as added the all caps portion itself.

 

[oboeguy]

I'm surprised there's no mention of Apple's acquisition of HopStop, which provides excellent transit directions in NYC and, I imagine, other cities. Presumably Maps' forthcoming transit directions will benefit from the purchase.

(I'm still recovering from Apple killing the Windows Phone HopStop app, grr!)

 

[BullBearMS]

If you didn't already get the hint when they previously started buying companies that produce transit apps.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57599 ... er-embark/

 

[Deleted member 192806]

Nice. Now all we need is to build more transit systems for Google to follow.

 

[karolus]

ackmondual[/url]":le7o4rwa]A couple of friends who were using Iph4s a couple years ago were saying that while the Maps app was good for finding things, it wasn't any good at providing navigation. One of them ended up paying $30 for a 3rd party app to fill that need. I have a coworker who paid $60 for a Magellan app. AFAIK, some iOS users can sitll get around just fine, but others do wish maps was improved.

I hate to turn this into yet another And vs. iOS debate, but this was one part And did better. I was blown away how well navigation software worked right out of the box on my old Samsung Galaxy s2 (And 2.3.6), which was better than the most up to date thing that Apple had even later. It got even better on my gs4 using And 4.2.2. I also like how an upate allowed you to double tap and hold to scroll up or down to zoom in/out. This essentially lets you use the map software one-handed, making it much more usable than ever.

The operating system is beside the point here. The real issue is the mapping data and the software it integrates with. Google has the advantage of a much longer head start to get the kinks ironed out.

I do find it strange that your friends paid money for apps. Google Maps is available on iOS for free...

 

[klassobanieras]

Obligatory "I got Sherlocked" post from a transit-routing app developer here (for Athens Greece FWIW). Meh, it's not like I made any money off it anyway.

Wishlist for Apple's transit router:
- Factor hill-gradient into the cost-calculation for the walking portions of a route
- Take advantage of multiple routes sharing spans of stops, eg "Take the 1, 2 or 3 (whichever comes first) for 5 stops" (a huge timesaver in Athens)
- Patch the errors in the Athens transit operator's DB (Google doesn't so I don't have high hopes for this)

 

[danstl]

I love it... Apple releases new Maps app and say: " Hey devs, create some really cool transit maps, because we want you to handle this piece... As our maps have not transit information built in."

A year later: "OK so thanks for all your hard work... We looked at all your apps and have now taken everything that you guys worked so hard on and implemented it into our own transit mapping system."

Awesome!

 

[withak]

Apple should stick to designing awesome hardware and leave the online services to the professionals.

Replacing the built-in google maps app, however outdated it was at the time, with their own half-baked offering was terrible. Thankfully google saved everyone who actually needed to use an iPhone for getting around even if Apple refuses to integrate it with the OS.

 

[danstl]

withak[/url]":3h69t7w0]Apple should stick to designing awesome hardware and leave the online services to the professionals.

Replacing the built-in google maps app, however outdated it was at the time, with their own half-baked offering was terrible. Thankfully google saved everyone who actually needed to use an iPhone for getting around even if Apple refuses to integrate it with the OS.

Well Apple actually made both maps - Google did not make the original maps for iOS, they only provided the data...

 

[lalato]

danstl[/url]":16iwbcop]I love it... Apple releases new Maps app and say: " Hey devs, create some really cool transit maps, because we want you to handle this piece... As our maps have not transit information built in."

A year later: "OK so thanks for all your hard work... We looked at all your apps and have now taken everything that you guys worked so hard on and implemented it into our own transit mapping system."

Awesome!

What you didn't realize was that Apple was asking devs to showcase their talents. If they came up with something that Apple liked, well then Apple paid them for their trouble by buying them. Apple has been on a mini buying spree picking up mapping app makers (HopStop, Embark, etc).

 

[Techngro]

ackmondual[/url]":1ktic5fs]A couple of friends who were using Iph4s a couple years ago were saying that while the Maps app was good for finding things, it wasn't any good at providing navigation. One of them ended up paying $30 for a 3rd party app to fill that need. I have a coworker who paid $60 for a Magellan app. AFAIK, some iOS users can sitll get around just fine, but others do wish maps was improved.

I hate to turn this into yet another And vs. iOS debate, but this was one part And did better. I was blown away how well navigation software worked right out of the box on my old Samsung Galaxy s2 (And 2.3.6), which was better than the most up to date thing that Apple had even later. It got even better on my gs4 using And 4.2.2. I also like how an upate allowed you to double tap and hold to scroll up or down to zoom in/out. This essentially lets you use the map software one-handed, making it much more usable than ever.

I always use this as an example of how the iPhone is just a basic smartphone. It does the basics (text/browsing/email etc.) very well, but once you start expecting more advanced features (although transit points in maps is also kinda basic), the iPhone becomes useless.

That's why teens, hipsters and grandmas love the iphone. Cause it's simple and easy to use (I like to give credit where credit is due).

 

[deviltry]

Whaaat? Only peasants use public transport, and Apple users are clearly master race.

 

[RavenousRhesus]

And still everyone will use google maps until apple decides to ban it.

 

[Deleted member 192806]

RavenousRhesus[/url]":3i1r0nqp]And still everyone will use google maps until apple decides to ban it.

Nokia maps, and yes it's pretty good.

 

[klassobanieras]

Techngro[/url]":31c2fjcz]
I hate to turn this into yet another And vs. iOS debate [...]

Patently false

 

[withak]

danstl[/url]":21y3xtjr]

withak[/url]":21y3xtjr]Apple should stick to designing awesome hardware and leave the online services to the professionals.

Replacing the built-in google maps app, however outdated it was at the time, with their own half-baked offering was terrible. Thankfully google saved everyone who actually needed to use an iPhone for getting around even if Apple refuses to integrate it with the OS.

Well Apple actually made both maps - Google did not make the original maps for iOS, they only provided the data...

The data is what really matters thought. Apple pretty successfully demonstrated that a pretty modern UI is useless with bad map data.

 

[imgx64]

Industry experience in C++ and Linux

Interesting how they mention "Linux" and not "OS X or Linux" or simply "UNIX".

Does Apple use Linux on the server side?

 

[BullBearMS]

danstl[/url]":2fdncofe]I love it... Apple releases new Maps app and say: " Hey devs, create some really cool transit maps, because we want you to handle this piece... As our maps have not transit information built in."

A year later: "OK so thanks for all your hard work... We looked at all your apps and have now taken everything that you guys worked so hard on and implemented it into our own transit mapping system."

Awesome!

Given the universal poutrage that Apple didn't include this as a feature, you're surprised that they decided to go ahead and do so now?

 

[Roonski]

Like others, I don't see the point adding features when the basic map data is so far behind. Google has an online map maker that lets anyone submit new or updated map layout - not just points of interest but the actual outlines of streets! Apple has nothing beyond their little joke 'report a problem' which they ignore anyway.

Apple doesn't really get crowd sourcing, so their maps and other such services are always going to be behind.

 

[aoeu]

imgx64[/url]":1erg5843]

Industry experience in C++ and Linux

Interesting how they mention "Linux" and not "OS X or Linux" or simply "UNIX".

Does Apple use Linux on the server side?

Yes, among other things. Apple does not make enterprise server products, and they are a very large enterprise. Hence, other platforms behind the scenes.

 

[Trencher93]

C++? I thought Apple force people to use Objective-C. They ought to have to eat their own dog food.

 

[qazwart]

Ryoshi[/url]":m1l4inn4]Will they fix the actual map data, though? Of the times I've used Apple Maps in the last month, it directed me to the correct location exactly once. Every other time, it's pointed me to the right area, where "area" is defined as anywhere within a mile of my destination...which is entirely less than helpful.

I went on a business trip to Philly, and I had the opposite problem, Google Maps gave me the wrong direction each and ever time, and Apple maps were correct. I would say that both platforms can be somewhat of a crapshoot when getting directions. Apple maps data has definitely improved -- especially in well populated areas, but there are places where Google simply has more data.

The main advantage of Google Maps is Street View. Whenever I get directions from Google, I can use Street View to verify things. Is my destination where I want to go, or is it possibly down the street? Is that street a one way street the wrong way? Can I really make a left turn onto that highway? I can't do that with Apple maps. Plus, Street View is used more than just to snap pictures. Data from Street View is added to the map. What does that direction sign say? What's the business at that location? This gives Google a big advantage. However, Apple may now have a way of getting street view type of data.

Street viewing the world probably costs you a few billion per year. You need to physically drive around the entire world. That takes hundreds of employees and cars. For Google, data is a product unto itself, and it's worth it for Google to spend billions. However, it's simply not worth it for Apple. Apple sells hardware and services, and spending a couple of billion per year isn't going to have any return.

The problem is whether Apple and Google can share that Street View data on good terms. How much would Google want? Is it going to be the same data that Android users get? Will Google demand customer data from Apple? Apple could turn to Microsoft for Bing street view data, but Microsoft is also a competitor. Would Microsoft be willing to sell this type of data to someone they feel is a complete threat to their business?

There is one more company with this street view type of data, and it's data may even be better than Google's or Microsoft street view data. That company is Navteq, and Naveq is owned by Nokia. When Nokia was a Microsoft partner, Apple could have issues with having Navteq supply street view type of data for Apple maps. However, Nokia is no longer in the smartphone and tablet market competing against Apple. Nokia could also use a big customer like Apple. Apple, in turn, needs map data that doesn't put hundreds of millions into the pockets of a big competitor.

There could be a deal here.

 

[Ryoshi]

qazwart[/url]":1mb2hj33]

Ryoshi[/url]":1mb2hj33]Will they fix the actual map data, though? Of the times I've used Apple Maps in the last month, it directed me to the correct location exactly once. Every other time, it's pointed me to the right area, where "area" is defined as anywhere within a mile of my destination...which is entirely less than helpful.

I went on a business trip to Philly, and I had the opposite problem, Google Maps gave me the wrong direction each and ever time, and Apple maps were correct. I would say that both platforms can be somewhat of a crapshoot when getting directions. Apple maps data has definitely improved -- especially in well populated areas, but there are places where Google simply has more data.

That's bizarre. I lived in Philly for about eight months on a project and Google Maps on my phone served me really well, well enough that I held off on the update that killed it for Apple Maps. By the time I finally bit the bullet and made the switch, I didn't really need to use maps to get around the city so I don't have much to compare it to.

While I agree that street view is a great feature, I don't think it would matter nearly as much if the mapping data was accurate. I don't care what an area looks like if the map gets me close enough to see the sign I'm looking for from the road, but Apple Maps has a really bad habit of directing me to locations completely divorced from my intended destination.

e: Where in Philly were you? I was right downtown in Center City around Market Street, and everything around there was spot-on for accuracy.

 

[BonzaiThePenguin]

Trencher93[/url]":1ylss9f4]C++? I thought Apple force people to use Objective-C. They ought to have to eat their own dog food.

They're probably building off of the many disparate APIs and data sets they purchased from other companies, and it sounds like they're using Linux as the backend anyway.

 

[Hrmmm]

Trencher93[/url]":3bkwwn09]C++? I thought Apple force people to use Objective-C. They ought to have to eat their own dog food.

Just because they like their hammer doesn't mean they should believe everything's a nail.

 

[AdamM]

Ryoshi[/url]":326tapd4]Will they fix the actual map data, though? Of the times I've used Apple Maps in the last month, it directed me to the correct location exactly once. Every other time, it's pointed me to the right area, where "area" is defined as anywhere within a mile of my destination...which is entirely less than helpful.

I seriously thought the hubbub about Apple Maps being terrible was just hyperbole, since I didn't use maps very often to begin with. But it's actually astoundingly bad.

edit: Love the downvotes. Seriously, Apple Maps is a really bad product that has only improved marginally since its release. I know people have weird rabid brand loyalty over Apple stuff but that doesn't change the fact that a map that gives you incorrect locations and directions is completely useless as a map.

Disregarding anyone who down votes you as a fanboy says more about your fanboyism than it does theirs.

 

[Daemonworks]

So now Apple maps can try to kill you by transit too? Sweet!

 

[ackmondual]

karolus[/url]":gyxkuclf]

ackmondual[/url]":gyxkuclf]A couple of friends who were using Iph4s a couple years ago were saying that while the Maps app was good for finding things, it wasn't any good at providing navigation. One of them ended up paying $30 for a 3rd party app to fill that need. I have a coworker who paid $60 for a Magellan app. AFAIK, some iOS users can sitll get around just fine, but others do wish maps was improved.

I hate to turn this into yet another And vs. iOS debate, but this was one part And did better. I was blown away how well navigation software worked right out of the box on my old Samsung Galaxy s2 (And 2.3.6), which was better than the most up to date thing that Apple had even later. It got even better on my gs4 using And 4.2.2. I also like how an upate allowed you to double tap and hold to scroll up or down to zoom in/out. This essentially lets you use the map software one-handed, making it much more usable than ever.

The operating system is beside the point here. The real issue is the mapping data and the software it integrates with. Google has the advantage of a much longer head start to get the kinks ironed out.

I do find it strange that your friends paid money for apps. Google Maps is available on iOS for free...

Does Google Maps provide turn-by-turn directions via voice? Last time I checked, it didn't. Either way, I just assumed they wanted other features that were not available otherwise.

The OS does make a difference, as b/c of some disagreement between Apple and Google, Apple's been left to build their own verison of maps, and their own version of a GPS app.

 

[Ryoshi]

AdamM[/url]":1et68oyr]

Ryoshi[/url]":1et68oyr]Will they fix the actual map data, though? Of the times I've used Apple Maps in the last month, it directed me to the correct location exactly once. Every other time, it's pointed me to the right area, where "area" is defined as anywhere within a mile of my destination...which is entirely less than helpful.

I seriously thought the hubbub about Apple Maps being terrible was just hyperbole, since I didn't use maps very often to begin with. But it's actually astoundingly bad.

edit: Love the downvotes. Seriously, Apple Maps is a really bad product that has only improved marginally since its release. I know people have weird rabid brand loyalty over Apple stuff but that doesn't change the fact that a map that gives you incorrect locations and directions is completely useless as a map.

Disregarding anyone who down votes you as a fanboy says more about your fanboyism than it does theirs.

How on earth does that make sense in your head? I posted factual personal experiences and got downvoted, almost certainly because I disparaged the name of the One True Brand, just like any other post that makes minor criticisms of Apple. I'd ask if you were new here but your post count suggests otherwise so maybe you just have the observation and pattern recognition skills of a potato.

 

[Ben G]

Ryoshi[/url]":3ihti3el]

How on earth does that make sense in your head? I posted factual personal experiences and got downvoted, almost certainly because I disparaged the name of the One True Brand, just like any other post that makes minor criticisms of Apple. I'd ask if you were new here but your post count suggests otherwise so maybe you just have the observation and pattern recognition skills of a potato.

Or maybe it's because you're trying to make sweeping generalizations based on the singular data point of your personal experience. I down voted you because I've used Apple Maps since they've been released and have never once been given bad directions. That being said, I don't go around stating that it's perfect and everyone who had problems must be some anti-fanboy.

 

[Ryoshi]

Ben G[/url]":2uui3htt]

Ryoshi[/url]":2uui3htt]

How on earth does that make sense in your head? I posted factual personal experiences and got downvoted, almost certainly because I disparaged the name of the One True Brand, just like any other post that makes minor criticisms of Apple. I'd ask if you were new here but your post count suggests otherwise so maybe you just have the observation and pattern recognition skills of a potato.

Or maybe it's because you're trying to make sweeping generalizations based on the singular data point of your personal experience. I down voted you because I've used Apple Maps since they've been released and have never once been given bad directions. That being said, I don't go around stating that it's perfect and everyone who had problems must be some anti-fanboy.

That would make a hell of a lot more sense if I was the only one that reported problems with Apple Maps. As I said in that very post, there was so much wailing and gnashing of teeth when the switch occurred that I figured the complaints were hyperbole, but my experience has actually reinforced those complaints.

 

[Ben G]

Again, I don't argue that lots of people have problems with it, it's just the following absolute statements I disagreed with:

Seriously, Apple Maps is a really bad product that has only improved marginally since its release.

I seriously thought the hubbub about Apple Maps being terrible was just hyperbole, since I didn't use maps very often to begin with. But it's actually astoundingly bad.

I've not found it "really bad", "terrible", or "astoundingly bad". The directions and locations have always been spot on for me. I've certainly found it no worse then Google Maps where I live.

Again, this also one anecdotal point to counter your anecdotal point, but I downvoted the post because I disagreed with it's premise, not out of some sort of fanboy loyalty.

 

[foresmac108]

Trencher93[/url]":3fsx91g9]C++? I thought Apple force people to use Objective-C. They ought to have to eat their own dog food.

For one major counter example, WebKit is built in C++. Plenty of under-the-hood stuff in OS X is built in C or C++, as well. Objective-C is required to write OS X (GUI) or iOS apps, though you can also mix in C, C++, and Objective-C++.

 

[johninparis]

I've been very frustrated by the uneven quality of Apple's map data (two examples: numerical addresses mapping to points several blocks away, POIs like restaurants that are years out of date). Living in Paris, a major city with a large amount of tourism, I'd expect much better.

The problem for us users becomes: when do I trust the data? If in the same urban area I can get moderately accurate info mixed with wildly inaccurate info, how do I as a user make the critical decision what to use? I've tried to improve the data using the reporting interface, in hopes that I could at least help others in my "areas of expertise". But despite multiple reports in the past year about two or three restaurants in our neighborhood which have closed or changed names, I haven't seen any changes.

I'm truly hoping that Apple's handling of public transport will be better, especially considering that it requires even more dimensions to be correct in order to provide an accurate result (differences in service by day of week or hour of day, schedule updates, line changes, etc).

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere are licensing issues. Even when Apple was using Google data, public transit wasn't covered in Paris. Presumably, that was because Apple didn't have an agreement with the Paris transit authority; Google maps offer this info (then in their Web-based maps, and now also via their iOS app). I'm wondering what the coverage will be here; will Apple go all-out, or will this new service only be available in some limited areas and leave the others to be covered by external apps as is the case now?

Google has had ten years (or more?) to get to where they are in quality, but that doesn't mean Apple can expect to benefit from a similarly long ramp-up time. I hope they can step up their game, and soon.

 

[Dano40]

karolus[/url]":sz1agqyc]

ackmondual[/url]":sz1agqyc]A couple of friends who were using Iph4s a couple years ago were saying that while the Maps app was good for finding things, it wasn't any good at providing navigation. One of them ended up paying $30 for a 3rd party app to fill that need. I have a coworker who paid $60 for a Magellan app. AFAIK, some iOS users can sitll get around just fine, but others do wish maps was improved.

I hate to turn this into yet another And vs. iOS debate, but this was one part And did better. I was blown away how well navigation software worked right out of the box on my old Samsung Galaxy s2 (And 2.3.6), which was better than the most up to date thing that Apple had even later. It got even better on my gs4 using And 4.2.2. I also like how an upate allowed you to double tap and hold to scroll up or down to zoom in/out. This essentially lets you use the map software one-handed, making it much more usable than ever.

The operating system is beside the point here. The real issue is the mapping data and the software it integrates with. Google has the advantage of a much longer head start to get the kinks ironed out.

I do find it strange that your friends paid money for apps. Google Maps is available on iOS for free...

Maybe they don't want to be mined for information.

 

[rrecine]

Let's hope the potential developer doesn't use the current Apple Maps to get to the interview.