Is Firefox OK?

Mozilla’s privacy-heavy browser is flatlining but still crucial to future of the web.

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[cesarean escape]

Is Focus primarily for phones, as opposed to desktops?

 

[cesarean escape]

Mozilla has also been focusing on partnerships, including recently working with Facebook parent company Meta to push for more privacy-focused advertising.

(cough...cough)

 

[AmorImpermissus]

While I understand why a lot of consumers have dropped Firefox for Chrome as Android took off, I think there's another really big reason Chrome is so dominant. They provide .admx files which allows businesses with a Windows ADDS environment to manage Chrome and it's configuration in a very granular way. I remember pushing it hard as a sysadmin because it was a realistic alternate to IE we could centrally manage. That's the sort of thing that, because of privacy concerns nowadays, Mozilla could use to displace significant market share with privacy-conscious businesses. There needs to be a comparable "Firefox for Work" sort of option that can be centrally managed.

Edit: Peace, I concede my ignorance. This exists now. It didn't in any simple or comprehensive manner the way admx templates did for Chrome when I last checked. I also agree, as many below have stated more eloquently than I, that the usefulness of such an option is debatable at this point, now that Edge Chromium is a thing. Let's just hope MS's purported abandonment of EEE continues...

 

[monogon]

I use Firefox mobile (not Focus). My big complaint is the same complaint I have about Windows, Android, iOS, and most other software actually. Too many UI changes, too often. I'm not against change: I loved Win 8 right away. I'm against making and undoing changes willy-nilly, and never giving us a choice in what works best for us. How much bloat would that really be, letting us like make Start bigger (full screen) in 11?

It took ages for the new extension catalog to grow, but it's mostly there now.

 

[NotSoPro]

I use Firefox on all of my devices. No issues at all with performance or usability.

 

[Artem S. Tashkinov]

MBAs took over and Mozilla started not only to ignore its user base, they started to roll out changes which alienated their user base. That's what happened.

Edit: removed the remark about SJWs as people here find it inappropriate. OK. Let's forget the history of Mozilla.

 

[CommanderK]

I've been using Firefox before it even was version 1.x, and I still am. There was a certain time when multithreading became increasingly important, and Firefox took quite long to adapt (I think around 2012...2014). But it has. It is quick, reliable, it can be extended the way I want, and I can really only recommend it to others as the better alternative. Even Mac users (I use it there, too) should think of it as the better alternative to Safari, which is nowadays called "the IE of Apple".
I personally also cannot trust a browser that is made by an ad and search giant. That is too many interests put into one place.
I donate to Mozilla on a regular basis. You don't need to do this, but you should really try out Firefox - maybe even again, if you dropped it some time ago.

 

[Aristotle Hume]

I use Firefox and want to keep using it but the UI changes increasingly make it hard to love. Last year the tab bar was redesigned in a way that actually makes it hard (certainly on Linux) to identify where each tab begins and ends, especially when there are a lot of tabs. It's certainly not a good move from an accessibility perspective. Random UI changes don't suddenly make your browser more "modern".

 

[AxMi-24]

I use Firefox on all of my devices. No issues at all with performance or usability.

I use it too (containers are really nice for separating things) but mobile one doesn't have swipe down to reload and it's driving me crazy.

Honestly it's really difficult to recommend FF over vivaldi to anyone. FF is byzantine as fuck and everything needs some random add-on (we all know the security of many of those).
I would love to have vivaldi like browser based on FF. Something where I don't need bunch of security nightmares in order to use it and it accepts that different people work in different ways, unlike mozilla that is our way or highway.

 

[Mungus the Unhyphenated]

While I understand why a lot of consumers have dropped Firefox for Chrome as Android took off, I think there's another really big reason Chrome is so dominant. They provide .admx files which allows businesses with a Windows ADDS environment to manage Chrome and it's configuration in a very granular way. I remember pushing it hard as a sysadmin because it was a realistic alternate to IE we could centrally manage. That's the sort of thing that, because of privacy concerns nowadays, Mozilla could use to displace significant market share with privacy-conscious businesses. There needs to be a comparable "Firefox for Work" sort of option that can be centrally managed.

Agreed. At least for enterprise use cases -- and browsers are, for better or for worse, essential in a business environment. Firefox requires keeping it on it separate ESR update channel, and managing it well doesn't fit as neatly within typical AD management tools. The Chrome+IE model has been a mainstay for some time in the enterprise world.

At least until Chromium-based Edge came along...

Microsoft's Chromium-derived browser has become a no-brainer for ease of manageability and integration with Office 365/AzureAD. At this point, I'm seeing a trend toward O365+Edge and Google Workspace (G Suite)+Chrome as the typical choices. Firefox is losing relevance in the business space except for applications that depend on it.

 

[monogon]

Is Focus primarily for phones, as opposed to desktops?

It's for iOS, because there is no freedom in rendering engines.

 

[GalacticStone]

In my own experience, I prefer Brave. It's a de-Googled Chrome.

Edit : Not sure why everyone is downvoting an opinion clearly stated as personal experience only, but OK. LOL.

Nothing I said is untrue. LOL.

 

[Dantesol]

While I understand why a lot of consumers have dropped Firefox for Chrome as Android took off, I think there's another really big reason Chrome is so dominant. They provide .admx files which allows businesses with a Windows ADDS environment to manage Chrome and it's configuration in a very granular way. I remember pushing it hard as a sysadmin because it was a realistic alternate to IE we could centrally manage. That's the sort of thing that, because of privacy concerns nowadays, Mozilla could use to displace significant market share with privacy-conscious businesses. There needs to be a comparable "Firefox for Work" sort of option that can be centrally managed.

There is a firefox for work with ADMX templates. Heck DISA just released GPOs for firefox last month.
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/enterprise/

 

[Artem S. Tashkinov]

To be precise:

* XUL abandoned and with it thousands of powerful extensions (a ton of them have never been reimplemented)
* UI has been changed great many times with the last iteration probably the most horrible one (considering all the white space, huge fonts, gray nondescript icons) - on Reddit people were really unhappy
* Features removed
* Full themes support removed
* Browser customization shrunk
* Only a couple of years ago Firefox stopped leaking RAM like crazy
* Over the past decade most significant changes have been made behind closed doors or in bugzilla where only Mozilla employees are allowed to opine.

And here's their last feat:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30375640

Yeah, it's all "because of" Google Chrome. Really. Except Mozilla has actively been shooting themselves in the foot for the past decade.

Edit: have fun.

 

[monogon]

Remember, the first rule of downvotes is to never talk about downvotes. Now downvote me, you monsters!!!

[Um, I said downvote?]

 

[doalwa]

While I understand why a lot of consumers have dropped Firefox for Chrome as Android took off, I think there's another really big reason Chrome is so dominant. They provide .admx files which allows businesses with a Windows ADDS environment to manage Chrome and it's configuration in a very granular way. I remember pushing it hard as a sysadmin because it was a realistic alternate to IE we could centrally manage. That's the sort of thing that, because of privacy concerns nowadays, Mozilla could use to displace significant market share with privacy-conscious businesses. There needs to be a comparable "Firefox for Work" sort of option that can be centrally managed.

That ship has sailed. Edge is well integrated and a breeze to manage with AD GPOs.

We don’t bother pushing other browsers in our environment, Edge is good enough.

 

[redraider0807]

While I understand why a lot of consumers have dropped Firefox for Chrome as Android took off, I think there's another really big reason Chrome is so dominant. They provide .admx files which allows businesses with a Windows ADDS environment to manage Chrome and it's configuration in a very granular way. I remember pushing it hard as a sysadmin because it was a realistic alternate to IE we could centrally manage. That's the sort of thing that, because of privacy concerns nowadays, Mozilla could use to displace significant market share with privacy-conscious businesses. There needs to be a comparable "Firefox for Work" sort of option that can be centrally managed.

Agreed. At least for enterprise use cases -- and browsers are, for better or for worse, essential in a business environment. Firefox requires keeping it on it separate ESR update channel, and managing it well doesn't fit as neatly within typical AD management tools. The Chrome+IE model has been a mainstay for some time in the enterprise world.

At least until Chromium-based Edge came along...

Microsoft's Chromium-derived browser has become a no-brainer for ease of manageability and integration with Office 365/AzureAD. At this point, I'm seeing a trend toward O365+Edge and Google Workspace (G Suite)+Chrome as the typical choices. Firefox is losing relevance in the business space except for applications that depend on it.

Yup - our company blocked Firefox over a year ago and uninstalled it from every computer because they couldn’t manage it (too much risk to mitigate with no “reward” and we are trying to get HITRUST certification). Soon they are going to block chrome and push everyone to edge because of the additional management features there. I’m sister tons of other companies are in the same boat (at least when it comes to Firefox).

 

[overHere]

In my own experience, I prefer Brave. It's a de-Googled Chrome.

There's also Chromium, which is a de-Googled Chrome without changing the interface. I like Brave as well, but some people don't like change, and Chromium give them the exact same interface as Google's official Chrome browser without the built-in spying and personal data mining.

 

[ianstar]

I have always tried to support Firefox just to have diversity in the ecosystem. I still use it regularly on desktop but had to remove it for iOS due to recent UI changes that were driving me crazy. Specifically their choice to open a new tab every time I opened the app with no option to change the behavior back to opening to my last used tab (which is what I want my browser to do). I am now using Edge but wish FF had just left things alone and focused on improved performance and reliability instead of useless UI changes.

 

[anders190]

I've used Firefox since before it was named Firefox, I use it on all devices I use that can use it and where a web browser ever would be needed. Considering what way the wind keeps blowing, Google can rip Firefox from my cold dead hands.

To be a bit more serious, I don't know what browser I would use whenever Firefox eventually dies. Probably whatever springs from its ashes, maybe another Firebird?

Everything else is just another Chrome(ium) browser. Seen one, seen all.

 

[chilldude22]

While I understand why a lot of consumers have dropped Firefox for Chrome as Android took off, I think there's another really big reason Chrome is so dominant. They provide .admx files which allows businesses with a Windows ADDS environment to manage Chrome and it's configuration in a very granular way. I remember pushing it hard as a sysadmin because it was a realistic alternate to IE we could centrally manage. That's the sort of thing that, because of privacy concerns nowadays, Mozilla could use to displace significant market share with privacy-conscious businesses. There needs to be a comparable "Firefox for Work" sort of option that can be centrally managed.

There is a firefox for work with ADMX templates. Heck DISA just released GPOs for firefox last month.
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/enterprise/

Yeah I thought that was funny too. DISA (the US government IT department) deploys and centrally manages FF just like Edge and Chrome and has for a while. I was actually surprised they included FF as it’s not used by many and seems like more trouble than it’s worth, in terms of user impact.

I’m an FF user going on two decades and even I can admit they haven’t kept pace. It’s depressing seeing Chrome take everything over.

 

[stile99]

I tried to use Firefox again about 4 years ago. Idk what it's like now, but at the time one of the websites I used regularly wouldn't load properly, so I ditched it almost immediately. That's harsh maybe, but I just want a browser that works. If other users ran into small issues here or there, they likely did the same.

Basically...yup. I used to use Firefox because of issues with Chrome being a resource hog. Then Firefox became a resource hog. Then it started taking ten seconds to load anything after running. I tried anything and everything to fix this, to no avail. Search for solutions, seems a lot of people have this problem, nobody has a solution that works. Well, I finally found the solution in an old joke.

"Hey Doc, it hurts when I move my arm like this."
"Then don't move your arm like that."

Brave is working out fairly well for me. It has issues, sure, don't they all? But at least they are issues I can work with.

Edit: I noticed any comment mentioning Brave got massive downvotes, leading me to do further research.

Y'all could have just told me about the dude, I had no idea whatsoever. Thanks for the (sorta) heads up. The issues I was referring to were the massive cryptobro vibes, which I could mostly ignore. The anti-vaxxer douche vibes I cannot.

 

[metamatic]

Downvotes? Someone doesn't like facts?

You’re not being downvoted for the factual part of your comment (that Mozilla have alienated users with unwanted changes). You’re being downvoted for the stupid political axe-grinding you insisted on mixing in.

 

[cleek]

i've always used FF. but some of their UI decisions are just baffling.

what they did to the new tab page with the last UI update is truly confusing. they've always had a big edit control in the middle of the page, which acts as a search box. and i'd grown accustomed to using that, instead of the little search box on the toolbar. and i HATE using the URL control as a search because those are two separate functions. the combined URL and search control is why i hate Chrome, in fact.

anyway, they still have the search box on the new tab page, but when you start typing in it, focus immediately jumps to the URL bar and you end up typing in there, instead.

so they've created this new fake edit control that looks exactly like every edit control since the beginning of time, but behaves unlike any control that has ever existed. and why? because they want you to use the URL bar for search. why not just remove that edit control? why turn it into this cludgy fake thing that only infuriates me?

other than that...fine browser.

 

[Random_Ars]

Can we conclude that mostly only tech-savy people care about online privacy, and not the general public?

I get the impression that privacy gets a lot of attention due to the vocal minority. Seems that most people don't care, or atleast not as much to give up practicality and browser speed (which chrome is very good at).

 

[grommit!]

Another longtime desktop firefox user here. The massive performance improvements in v57 came at a cost, but ditching the security nightmare that was XUL was worth it. Aside from a few cosmetic gripes, I've been happy since.

In comparison, I tolerate the android browser, though I'm not sure I'd be willing to do so if I browsed on a phone more often.

 

[Hopefully Smarter]

Spyglass still works for me all these years later.

check out my new GeoCities site.

 

[mikesmith]

I've started using Firefox more often on mobile because it still supports add-ons. Having an ad blocker is great for saving bandwidth on my cheap t-mobile limited data plan.

 

[hizonner]

When Firefox became popular, I believe it was supported by DONATIONS. And it was used by people with a certain set of preferences.

When you start ordering everything around pleasing your "business partners", it's not a big surprise if you no longer please users. And when you try to go for the "bigger market" by making a worse copy of your competitor's product, it's not a big surprise if you don't capture any of their users, but lose your own.

 

[Richard Weiss]

Another example of the value that Mozilla provides to the world, and why we need it, is the Rust language. I believe it was originally developed to help Mozilla rewrite their rendering engine to be memory-safe, but it could provide security benefits in many applications.

 

[not_count_zero]

I still use Firefox because:

a.) I remember Internet Explorer and the standards wars in the early aughts.
b.) I don't trust Google. Even with Chromium.
c.) Most sites work well and I'd like to think I have a minor impact on standardization on those that don't.

I do have questions though. Mostly around the money. They're currently getting around a half a *billion*?!? What are they *doing* with it to warrant layoffs? I understand the Mozilla Foundation is many things but this seems really off. Really, really off. They should have at least half of that going into a fund that could pay out dividends for eternity to continue development.

Could someone break it down for me how this makes sense? I think others would appreciate it too.

 

[andy o]

While I understand why a lot of consumers have dropped Firefox for Chrome as Android took off, I think there's another really big reason Chrome is so dominant. They provide .admx files which allows businesses with a Windows ADDS environment to manage Chrome and it's configuration in a very granular way. I remember pushing it hard as a sysadmin because it was a realistic alternate to IE we could centrally manage. That's the sort of thing that, because of privacy concerns nowadays, Mozilla could use to displace significant market share with privacy-conscious businesses. There needs to be a comparable "Firefox for Work" sort of option that can be centrally managed.

I don't know if "ironically" is the correct word, but the fact that Chrome has the group policy option to disable the "software reporter tool" which runs periodically and consumes CPU and ramps up the fan for minutes in my laptop, but the policy doesn't even work unless you're joined in a domain with a Windows Enterprise machine, just made me so angry I just uninstalled Chrome from my PCs out of spite*. Edge has similar group policy settings, and Firefox is my main browser.

*I lied a bit; I still use Chrome on one for Google services, but it's a Windows Enterprise laptop that can outright block the SRT executable with AppLocker.

 

[sajurcaju]

Where can I get a browser that allows tabs under the address bar? This can be done in FF (what I use now), but there is this continual war between the developers and users on this feature.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

Downvotes? Someone doesn't like facts?

You’re not being downvoted for the factual part of your comment (that Mozilla have alienated users with unwanted changes). You’re being downvoted for the stupid political axe-grinding you insisted on mixing in.

Exactly. Anyone blaming Firefox's decline on "SJWs" at the foundation is missing the mark. For me:

“Once lost, users hardly come back until there's a compelling reason, and what would that compelling reason be?” says Bart Willemsen, a VP analyst focusing on privacy at Gartner. Willemsen says he has been a Firefox user since its earliest days. “I think Firefox really has a challenge to find a unique position—not only in marketing statements, but in their absolute product—and go in one direction,” he says.

For Deckelmann, making Firefox more personalized is key. She says this includes trying to increase the browser’s functionality to fit in with people being online more. “It’s almost impossible now for people to manage all this information,” Deckelmann says.

It used to be EXTREMELY personalized and personalizable, right out of the box, even without extensions. Mozilla has systematically REMOVED FUNCTIONALITY from the browser, and I'm not talking about switching from XUL. Personally I don't care if XUL ever comes back. I don't even use many extensions, mostly just uBlock.
A couple of versions ago they took out right-click for image properties! a basic function of browsing since Netscape Navigator and didn't add it back until two more releases. They took away my compact view mode. They foisted less powerful menus on me and removed configurable settings from about:config, the single most powerful customization feature of the core browser.
They keep chasing a new Chrome-like feature or look while killing things I use regularly. I don't want that shit. I want the old customizable feature-rich Firefox experience I had back in the 2.0 days.
So many users eject after each interface overhaul or silent removal of basic functionality and Firefox's trademark customizability. Yet they kept doing it. Madness.

 

[ifni]

Well that sucks...