I kind of assume the answer is yes, but wanted to ask others. With Circuit City going out of business, I've seen some good values on Samsung LED backlight DLP rear projection sets that made me wonder if I should spend the money? <BR><BR>A 67" screen with the Samsung HL67A750 seems like something that might get me through a few years till the next best technology comes along.
Is DLP Rear Projection Dead?
- Thread starter Krieger
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Seriously. I've had a Samsung DLP in the past, and loved it. For the price they can't be beat, and I would happily get another one if it came up.
I'm very happy with my 50" LED DLP. Samsung T-series, I forget the exact model. <BR><BR>I read that Samsung is getting out of DLP in another year or two. But that doesn't mean the set you buy today will stop working.
Be a real man and get the 67". -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif --
DLP is almost dead going forward, but that shouldn't really matter to you if you can get a good deal on one now.
I agree with the other posters. I bought a 65" Toshiba last year knowing that Toshiba would not be manufacturing any more DLPs.<br>I got a great deal and couldn't be happier with the PQ. <br>Also it's much easier to move than my old 56" 4:3 RPTV. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif --
For really large sets (65+) DP is a great combo of perf and price. The main knock against DLP was the "screen door" effect, which has been absent for years, and the size, which in many scenarios isn't a big deal. <BR><BR>The only real concern is the bulb and its replacement. I got my parents a 67 Mitsu and a service contract that included the first bulb (service contract was same price as 1 bulb).
I have an LG 52" DLP that I bought about 3.5 years ago. It was a floor model (at Best Buy) and my wife negotiated a "free" extended warranty ($300 warranty in lieu of 10% discount on $1800 TV). After about 3 months of daily use, the "replace bulb" warning light came on and I got it replaced under the manuf. warranty.<BR><BR>We've used it pretty much every day since then as our main TV. It is used for movies, sports, Xbox 360, PS2, (a Wii, once I get it hooked up), and lots of Nickelodeon and Disney. <BR><BR><B>Pros-</B> <BR>Huge screen for relatively little cash.<BR>Great blacks.<BR>Has a more "cinematic" feeling than Plasma or LCD, it actually feels more like a theater presentation.<BR>Very light for the size, my wife has to help me move it because of the bulk, but it is really no problem to move.<BR><BR><B>Cons- </B> <BR>Fan noise. It has a fan to keep that bulb cool and it is audible (but not terribly loud to me, YMMV).<BR>Field of view - Not too bad horizontally, but the vertical field of view is disappointing. If you are standing near the TV and looking down at it or sitting on the floor, you lose brightness and clarity. Make sure you check for this before buying.<BR>Screen door effect. If you sit closer than 6' away from my TV, you can make out the gaps, but I think this has improved and it's silly to sit that close.<BR>Lamp replacement - I know I'll have to replace it again someday.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">A 67" screen with the Samsung HL67A750 seems like something that might get me through a few years till the next best technology comes along. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I am planning on getting this exact model in a month and a half.<BR><BR>67' 1080p with bells and whistles for ~1800 USD? Yes please.<BR><BR>PS: the new LED based ones have no fans nor lamps, just the LED.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HappyBunny:<BR>DLP is almost dead going forward, but that shouldn't really matter to you if you can get a good deal on one now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>This is not true. DLP is still the leading projection technology for larger projectors ... Digital Cinema is only DLP.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by English_C6H^:<BR>Has a more "cinematic" feeling than Plasma or LCD, it actually feels more like a theater presentation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I'd lump this in with the "Cons" personally. Friends of ours have a monstrous Hitachi DLP, 67" I'm pretty sure and yeah, it looks more like a movie theatre screen, but I'd take my 50" plasma over it any day.
Also, make sure you're immune to the color wheel. Most people have no problem, or sit too close to the screen anyway, but if you have a big room and/or tend to set your computer monitor to 85Hz refresh rate, you might be happier with a 3-LCD RPTV (if they still make them).
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bash666:<BR>For really large sets (65+) DP is a great combo of perf and price. The main knock against DLP was the "screen door" effect, which has been absent for years, and the size, which in many scenarios isn't a big deal. <BR> </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I think screen door effect was more of a problem with LCD rear projection. DLP has the rainbows, which cause some people issues.<BR><BR>Really I think the main problem with DLP was that LCDs and Plasmas came along with big screens that were only a few inches thick. The DLP seems huge and bulky by comparison, and tends to dominate the room more. Since most consumers aren't video snobs getting the best picture possible anyway, these kind of practical/aesthetic factors are huge. (Edit: I'm not trying to say DLP is superior picture-wise to the other technologies. They all have tradeoffs and I don't really want to get into that debate. My point was just that for most customers that debate doesn't matter.)<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by keltor:<BR>This is not true. DLP is still the leading projection technology for larger projectors ... Digital Cinema is only DLP.<BR> </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Sorry, I meant for RPTVs. Front projection and cinema projection are a whole different story.
Carioca_FL
Ars Legatus Legionis
DLP used to be my main choice back when I was researching for a purchase (finally got a 42" Panasonic plasma). The biggest pro for me was price but the biggest drawback was the poor viewing angle, size and the somewhat muted picture.<BR><BR>I'm very happy with our plasma and our friends/family who own DLPs always comment on how much better ours look.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nofundsleft:<BR>Also, make sure you're immune to the color wheel. Most people have no problem, or sit too close to the screen anyway, but if you have a big room and/or tend to set your computer monitor to 85Hz refresh rate, you might be happier with a 3-LCD RPTV (if they still make them). </div></BLOCKQUOTE> If you're referring to the "rainbow effect," that doesn't exist with the LED-lit DLPs.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DriverGuru:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nofundsleft:<BR>Also, make sure you're immune to the color wheel. Most people have no problem, or sit too close to the screen anyway, but if you have a big room and/or tend to set your computer monitor to 85Hz refresh rate, you might be happier with a 3-LCD RPTV (if they still make them). </div></BLOCKQUOTE> If you're referring to the "rainbow effect," that doesn't exist with the LED-lit DLPs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I thought it still existed, but was just faster and therefore less likely to be seen. At least the early LED DLPs still alternated colors (with different color LEDs rather than a color wheel, iirc), which is what causes the effect. Has that changed? Or are they just so fast now that nobody can really see it?
Carioca_FL
Ars Legatus Legionis
I'm awaiting confirmation if LED-based DLPs don't have them, but with the previous ones, I always felt a bit uneasy with any moving parts, specially such delicate ones, inside a TV.<BR><BR>Plus, repleaceble bulbs never went down easily with me.
Moving parts in a DLP, say it ain't so! It's not like they have about 2 million mirrors going back and forth at high frequencies or anything.
Whether or not DLP is dead, please make sure you do your homework on prices before you buy from the CC liquidation. More than likely you aren't getting a deal plus you won't be able to return it. Check Best Buy, Amazon, and wherever else you can think of. Liquidation does not mean everything is a good deal.<BR><BR>Now as for rear projection TVs, I don't like them compared to direct view (LCD or Plasma). The off axis viewing on my previous Sony LCD RP HDTV was very poor and I was glad to replace it with a 58" plasma.
Samsung announced no new DLP's for '09 recently. Mits is working on thier red laser DLP's but early price indications don't show them anywhere near the bang/buck as a Sammy LED DLP.<BR><BR>I bought the 67" A750 referenced above. Sitting 12-13 ft back, I'm very satisfied w/ the image quality. I moved from a 56" lamp DLP (HLN series). <BR><BR>These sets are at a great price value so long as you don't mind the somewhat limited viewing angles as mentioned numerous times...or the set's depth, which is dramtically slimmer vs. my '03 model.<BR><BR>I'm not sure how much longer Samsung will continue shipping the A750's, but if you leaning toward getting one, I'd be checking into that...you may want to get one sooner than later if you like them. Maybe a nice Super Bowl deal will pop-up in the next week or so...
I have a year old 65" toshiba DLP and I love it, the lamp fan is almost silent. And definitely unnoticeable if there is any audio from the tv.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sryan2k1:<BR>I have a year old 65" toshiba DLP and I love it, the lamp fan is almost silent. And definitely unnoticeable if there is any audio from the tv. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>True for mine as well, but what is "silent" to me is "TOO GD LOUD" to others. The only time I notice the fan is when I've turned everything off and go to turn off the lights, since the switch is right above the fan (the fan still spins for a few minutes to cool off the lamp in a controlled manner).
I have a three year old 50" Panasonic DLP (720p) that has served us well, but I'd love to replace it with a 1080p LCD or plasma (we also own a Panasonic plasma).<BR><BR>If you want a huge screen I think DLP is still the best bang for the buck, unless you can do a front projection setup, I suppose.<BR><BR>The fan noise on our Panasonic has gotten worse over the years however, to the point where it's very audible if the set has been on for any amount of time. I need to open it up and see if I can maybe vacuum/blow dust out as maybe a build up of dust on the bulb and/or fan might be an issue? Maybe.<BR><BR>Also, I haven't had to replace the bulb yet, but clearly it will have to be done at some point and I know spending $300 on it is going to be painful, especially as I'd love to replace the whole set.<BR><BR>As others have said, make sure any deals at CC really are good deals.
DLP is a good choice if you are interested in playing stereoscopic-3D games (like the Sony PS3 demo). Yes you can do it today with many games (on PC; not yet on consoles). (It can be used for S3D photos/movies/TV shows too, but the content is not there.)
I have a DLP rear projection, and I do notice the rainbow every once in a while in very dark scenes. Over the years my brain has started to eliminate it for the most part though.
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K0DE:<br>PS: the new LED based ones have no fans nor lamps, just the LED. </div>
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<br>Not true. HL67A750 does have a fan, but it supposedly only kicks on after a LOT of usage.<br><br>LED DLPs have no color wheel, so no rainbow effect. The "refresh rate" is a native 120hz too, I take this to mean that the LEDs cycle at this speed. I'm sensitive to low refresh rates on CRTs (I can see flicker at 60hz and get headaches at 70, 85 is OK) and I have no problems with our LED DLP.<br><br>A front projector is still more inch for your dollar, but then you run into more light control issues, plus there's the problem of getting power and signal up through a wall into the ceiling where you hang it.<br><br>A 67" LED DLP is really stinking big, trust me. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif --<br><br>We got ours for $2000 (pre-tax) at BestBuy, and I bought it during a special Rewardzone event and put it on the Bestbuy CC. Zero % for 3 years, and I got triple points on the purchase, which ended up coming to another $145 back in rewardzone money. We promptly turned around and spent that on movies / games. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif --
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K0DE:<br>PS: the new LED based ones have no fans nor lamps, just the LED. </div>
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<br>Not true. HL67A750 does have a fan, but it supposedly only kicks on after a LOT of usage.<br><br>LED DLPs have no color wheel, so no rainbow effect. The "refresh rate" is a native 120hz too, I take this to mean that the LEDs cycle at this speed. I'm sensitive to low refresh rates on CRTs (I can see flicker at 60hz and get headaches at 70, 85 is OK) and I have no problems with our LED DLP.<br><br>A front projector is still more inch for your dollar, but then you run into more light control issues, plus there's the problem of getting power and signal up through a wall into the ceiling where you hang it.<br><br>A 67" LED DLP is really stinking big, trust me. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif --<br><br>We got ours for $2000 (pre-tax) at BestBuy, and I bought it during a special Rewardzone event and put it on the Bestbuy CC. Zero % for 3 years, and I got triple points on the purchase, which ended up coming to another $145 back in rewardzone money. We promptly turned around and spent that on movies / games. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif --
My dad just got a 67" Mits DLP 2 months ago, used it quite a bit for a month over break and had no qualms with it. Picture quality was great and I never noticed any audible noise from it. Pretty light for a 67" too (helped move it when we re-arranged furniture). I can't comment on viewing angles, the way it was set up in this room, its impossible to sit at more then 30 degrees off center.<BR><BR>Can anyone elaborate on the rainbow affect? I never noticed anything watching The Dark Knight (which has a few near-black scenes) on it in a pitch black room.
Question on DLP's narrower <I>vertical</I> viewing angle -- is it a problem if you have to stand up and play some Wii games (like using Wii Fit Balance Board)?
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">is it a problem if you have to stand up and play some Wii games (like using Wii Fit Balance Board)? </div>
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<br>Yes, if you're not far enough away.<br><br>The angle on most of the newer sets is 30 degrees +/- center, so you have a 60 degree sweep. This is fairly narrow when you are close. Since most people stand in front of their seating to play, it may not work well for you for Wii. It also doesn't help if you're taller or shorter.<br><br>L/R viewing angles are not really a problem - mine looks better than my LCD at fairly wide angles, it's just up & down that is bad.<br><br><blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by smartalco:<br>Can anyone elaborate on the rainbow affect? </div>
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<br>Rainbow effect doesn't happen during "dark scenes," it happens when you have bright / white stuff in the middle of an otherwise dark background. Credits scrolling are a good example.<br><br>Here's what Wikipedia says about it. It's supposedly not an issue on newer bulb-based DLPs, and AFAIK it can't happen on an LED DLP.<br><br>My opinion:<br>If you want a bigass screen for sit-down viewing of ANYTHING (movies, sports, games) and you can't control the light well enough to front project, or you can't handle the wiring for front projection, then a big DLP (ideally LED-based) is the best bet. They are also pretty cheap for their size - much cheaper than plasmas, but give a picture that is just as good. Blacks on a DLP are fantastic. Color gamut on my LED Samsung is great too.<br><br>I went with the LED DLP because it was cheaper than Plasma, and front projection was both a hassle in my room (wiring) and because front projectors aren't quite where I want them yet (I want an LED DLP 1080p front projector). I figure that by the time I pay off the free loan on my Samsung, FPs will be mature enough that I can give one a shot. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif --
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">is it a problem if you have to stand up and play some Wii games (like using Wii Fit Balance Board)? </div>
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<br>Yes, if you're not far enough away.<br><br>The angle on most of the newer sets is 30 degrees +/- center, so you have a 60 degree sweep. This is fairly narrow when you are close. Since most people stand in front of their seating to play, it may not work well for you for Wii. It also doesn't help if you're taller or shorter.<br><br>L/R viewing angles are not really a problem - mine looks better than my LCD at fairly wide angles, it's just up & down that is bad.<br><br><blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by smartalco:<br>Can anyone elaborate on the rainbow affect? </div>
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<br>Rainbow effect doesn't happen during "dark scenes," it happens when you have bright / white stuff in the middle of an otherwise dark background. Credits scrolling are a good example.<br><br>Here's what Wikipedia says about it. It's supposedly not an issue on newer bulb-based DLPs, and AFAIK it can't happen on an LED DLP.<br><br>My opinion:<br>If you want a bigass screen for sit-down viewing of ANYTHING (movies, sports, games) and you can't control the light well enough to front project, or you can't handle the wiring for front projection, then a big DLP (ideally LED-based) is the best bet. They are also pretty cheap for their size - much cheaper than plasmas, but give a picture that is just as good. Blacks on a DLP are fantastic. Color gamut on my LED Samsung is great too.<br><br>I went with the LED DLP because it was cheaper than Plasma, and front projection was both a hassle in my room (wiring) and because front projectors aren't quite where I want them yet (I want an LED DLP 1080p front projector). I figure that by the time I pay off the free loan on my Samsung, FPs will be mature enough that I can give one a shot. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif --
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ssiu:<BR>Question on DLP's narrower <I>vertical</I> viewing angle -- is it a problem if you have to stand up and play some Wii games (like using Wii Fit Balance Board)? </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes; My Sony DLP is pretty painful to look at from a standing position.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ZPrime:<BR><BR>LED DLPs have no color wheel, so no rainbow effect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>They don't have a color wheel, but AFAIK at least the early LED DLPs alternated color of LEDs (they still have only one set of mirrors, so can only do one color at a time), so you would still get the rainbow effect, it was just faster. I'm not sure if this has changed in the past couple years, though. It might be that the LED cycling has gotten so fast that nobody can really see the rainbows anymore.
Yes, it's dead. Amazing picture but, compared to the thinness of LCD and PDP, it was doomed. Most of our dealers report that they no longer carry it.<BR><BR>Best there ever was was HP.<BR><BR>To the poster before that remarked about mirrors showing only one color at a time. Yes, that's true but the "at a time" is about 40,000 times per second. The eye can not perceive it.
I have a Samsung HLT-5076 50" DLP, and it's great. I don't think it's fair to ask whether or not DLP technology is dead; it sounds like there probably won't be a lot of new models in the future, but the current ones are certainly competitive with other technologies if you're buying a TV today. <BR><BR>One thing I've found is that my DLP looks great with movies, especially 1080p stuff, and also fantastic with HDTV. The fact that there's less of a sharp edge to the pixels than something like LCD means that blocky encoding is less noticeable, and SDTV actually scales up fairly well.<BR><BR>However, I don't think it gets nearly as bright as modern LCDs, so if your room is bright it's not as good of a choice. As far as rainbows go, mine is a bulb model so I can see them occasionally, but when I'm watching a movie I usually have to try to see them.
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ALLHT:<br>Best there ever was was HP.<br> </div>
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<br><br>1080p JVC LCoS > HP.. And pretty darn good for gaming too..<br><br>(just wish the fan wasn't so loud -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif --.. Think this set will hold out 'til affordable SEDs or similar in 65+" for $1500 range..)
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<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ALLHT:<br>Best there ever was was HP.<br> </div>
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<br><br>1080p JVC LCoS > HP.. And pretty darn good for gaming too..<br><br>(just wish the fan wasn't so loud -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif --.. Think this set will hold out 'til affordable SEDs or similar in 65+" for $1500 range..)
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">1080p JVC LCoS </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>... Which isn't DLP.<BR><BR>LCoS is similar but different.<BR><BR>I've never seen an HP DLP set, I didn't even know such a thing existed. I thought HP's first TVs were those mediasmart things with a PC stuck in the back.
Clearing up a few things...<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bash666:<BR>The main knock against DLP was the "screen door" effect, which has been absent for years, and the size, which in many scenarios isn't a big deal. <BR> </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LCD projectors have the "screen door effect", not DMD (DLP). LCD projectors are transmissive, DMD is reflective. That's because the light is sent through the LCD panel, with DMD the light is reflected off the micromirrors on the chip. DMD in the consumer realm is a single chip solution because of cost. The display has what's called the "rainbow effect" because of use a color wheel, which is a spinning disc with different colored filters to allow the display to reproduce color. In the professional world DMD projectors use 3 chips and do not need a color wheel. A few consumer DMD manufacturers have released projectors using LED or lasers as light sources with a single DMD chip. This works because the speed of the micromirrors on the chip and the speed of the light source.<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by keltor:<BR>This is not true. DLP is still the leading projection technology for larger projectors ... Digital Cinema is only DLP. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Digital Cinema isn't exclusive with DMD chips, Sony has two 4K LCoS projectors available.<BR><BR>All that said DMD/DLP rear projection is pretty much dying in the consumer realm because you still need a box for projection so it's difficult to get a small wall mountable display like you can with LCD or plasma. The thinnest RPJs I have seen were around 6" or so but they were prototypes and I don't believe were ever released. Only the bad economy has given the RPJ market a repreive for a while. DMD projection I think going forward really only has a market in front projection. It's also the only technology that is used in the really big projectors (10k+ lumens). LCoS is only used by Sony and JVC and they generally don't have a big interest in the staging and visual environments markets these days which is where you need high lumens.
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