Interstellar Travel -- Interplanetary Colonization -- Possible or Not?

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Hat Monster

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Many of the problems are not impossible even by today's technology.<BR><BR>We can build a self-sustaining biosphere. There's no scientific or technological reason why not with today's knowledge. We haven't pulled it off yet, but that's mostly through lack of trying.<BR><BR>We can thus build a self-sustaining biosphere in space. It'd be ferociously expensive, but there's no scientific or technological objection.<BR><BR>What we can't do is move it anywhere.<BR><BR>We use rockets, giant explosions in a tube. They're inefficient, clumsy and unreliable, but great for giving a very high impulse for a very short time. Rockets, of course, use chemical reactions which are a few orders of magnitude less energetic than nuclear reactions. Rockets aren't going to get us anywhere because they plain don't scale well. Adding 1kg of mass to a rocket's payload means adding 40kg of fuel and fuel tank (for the Ariane V design anyway). As the mass to be lofted gets greater, a rocket looks worse and worse.<BR><BR>Part of a rocket's sucktitude comes from its chemical nature, chemical reactions are not very energetic compared to the mass of reactants used.<BR><BR>This brings us back to the biosphere. They're *heavy*. You're not pushing one anywhere with a rocket. Maybe not even with nuclear propulsion and I don't see macroscopic amounts of antimatter anywhere.<BR><BR>Larry, the "musclature falls off while in space" isn't true. It is if you define "space" as "microgravity" but there's no reason to make that definition, a vessel large enough for interstellar transport will have no problem spinning to assert an outward acceleration.
 

Hat Monster

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"><BR>Posted by Larry:<BR>You may be right there. On the other hand, there's some practical questions. If the people flying the ship aren't in suspended animation, they would have to be very disciplined about their exercise program by all the sci fi and, from what I know about, long term space-inhabiting astronauts. How long to Alpha Centauri again?<BR> </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The best comparable psychology and physiology is that of prisoners. They don't appear to suffer any physical retardation due to their incarceration though mental effects can be variable. Where's the exercise program come from? With a constant 1g, there's no requirement for it, no more than there is on Earth.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"><BR>Assuming that we don't obtain some "warp drive" which frees us from general relativity (and I happen to think that is a foregone conclusion) then all realistic means of near-interstellar travel will be "slow" compared to the speed of light. <BR> </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think the far bigger challenge is .... will we ever get outside our galaxy? That's a tough one. Those transit times look scary. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Sorry, BadAndy, but these two quotes do not compute. (Unless the top quote is meant to mean the opposite of what I'm taking it to mean here, it's not entirely clear if you believe not beating GR is inevitable or if beating GR is inevitable)<BR><BR>If beating c is a foregone conclusion, then beating "warp drive" is also a foregone conclusion, then beating "transwarp drive" is also a foregone conclusion, then beating "hyperwarp drive" is also a foregone conclusion. The end result is that we can travel at infinite velocity and get wherever the hell we like in zero time.<BR><BR>Adding time does not a solution make. We still can't fly by flapping our arms, yet this has been a staple of 'science fiction' for thousands of years.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dr JonboyG:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LordFrith:<BR><BR><BR>The trip doesn't have to be less, it just can be. Remember, two years at 1 g acceleration and you too can be anywhere in the universe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You keep posting this. Have we suddenly repealed the speed of light or something? </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If you can maintain 1g acceleration for one year (local reference frame), you're travelling within a gnat's left testicle of c.<BR><BR>You could then go wherever the hell you like in no time at all.<BR><BR>There are problems, though.<BR><BR>Wherever the hell you like won't be there anymore. Time dialation means that your reference frame is going very, very, very slowly relative to...well, less <I>relativistic</I> velocities. The universe around you ages incredibly quickly.<BR><BR>In simplified terms, your luminal-velocity motion through spacetime has become much more skewed to "space" and there's precious little left to go into "time".<BR><BR>If you want to look at it from a spatial perspective rather than a temporal one, then the universe shrinks along your axis of motion in your reference frame. You could use a laser rangefinder to see that Pluto was only one light minute away BUT to anyone else it STILL takes you the time indicated by your velocity. What might be a minute for you is around half a day for them.<BR><BR>So at this ferociously high velocity (let's just assume it is c or infinitesimally close to for the purpose of this discussion) you might think it takes you a minute or two to get to M31. An observer tracking your spacecraft on Earth, however, would see you taking just over two million years to get there. To take less than 2.2Ma means going faster than light, which isn't happening.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That's the sort of law government passes to impress interest groups and then redirects six times from sunday long before it happens. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It won't happen, I doubt there's many here who believe it will. Different politicians will arrive with different agendas. The same drive and force that Kennedy had is just far beyond anything Bush is capable of and, by extension, beyond anything the Americans are capable of anymore. That drive to be on the forefront of things seems to extend only as far as the forefront involves blowing someone up.
 
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