Industry groups are not happy about the imminent demise of Energy Star
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There is something obvious here, all right. Government and private sector organizations have inherently conflicting priorities. You have indicated yours.
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I have mixed feelings about Energy Star. It is very poorly implemented and a terrible example of regulatory capture.
For example, for refrigerators the EPA needed some input. They assembled an esteemed committee to make recommendations, with industry groups such as commercial landlords ("customers"), large builders, and appliance manufacturers.
The landlords want cheap appliances, and don't care how much energy it uses as the tenant pays. Builders want cheap to buy, last only as long as the warrantee, easy to install, and don't care about energy consumption. The appliance makers want the PR of the "green" tag, cheap to make, and breaks down immediately after the warranty period, preferably with very limited repair options
None of these "stakeholders" have any common interest with consumers: low energy cost, low product cost, repairability, and long life. The result is the EPA designed the testing protocols as the committee wanted.
The tags were designed by a similar committee. The appliance makers wanted obscure the energy cost of unessential, but highly profitable, variations, such as in-door ice and water dispensers, in-cabinet ice makers, and french doors. The yellow tag system is not clear how much of an energy penalty there are to these options.
In contrast, the EU standards are much more rigorous and useful. The original system was A-G, A being best. About a decade ago, with improvements in engineering, they added the grades A+, A++ and A+++. In 2021, they grades were revised/simplified, so the current "A" standard is equal to the previous "A+++". The revised standard also include requirements for reparability and recyclability.
I live off-grid (solar only) and was looking for an extremely efficient chest freezer. The best USA was offering was Energy Star, while the EU had by this time stopped selling freezers below B grade. I made a comparison of the standards, and best as I could figure, Energy Star was "F" on the European scale - not a joke.
One part of the standard was how long can a freezer keep cold in a power outage. IIRC, the US standard was it must keep a full freezer located in 20˚C (68˚F) ambient below 0˚ (32˚F) for 24 hours. The A+++ standard required keeping a full freezer below -10˚C (-14˚F) for 100 hours in 25˚C (77˚F) ambient.
In short, the Energy Star doesn't really mean anything. Essentially all products "comply" but are barely better than their predecessors.
Sadly, I was not able to import the Liebherr European freezer due to electricity issues. No problem with USA 240 V vs. European 230 V, the challenge is it needs 50 hz power, not 60 hz. Discussions with their engineers stated that the motor would work for a while, but the higher frequency meant they would likely burn out quickly. I explored getting a frequency converter but it seemed more complicated and expensive than I wanted.
Liebherr does now sell refrigeration in the US with 60 hz, but nowhere close to the A+++ European standard.
edit: corrected details
For example, for refrigerators the EPA needed some input. They assembled an esteemed committee to make recommendations, with industry groups such as commercial landlords ("customers"), large builders, and appliance manufacturers.
The landlords want cheap appliances, and don't care how much energy it uses as the tenant pays. Builders want cheap to buy, last only as long as the warrantee, easy to install, and don't care about energy consumption. The appliance makers want the PR of the "green" tag, cheap to make, and breaks down immediately after the warranty period, preferably with very limited repair options
None of these "stakeholders" have any common interest with consumers: low energy cost, low product cost, repairability, and long life. The result is the EPA designed the testing protocols as the committee wanted.
The tags were designed by a similar committee. The appliance makers wanted obscure the energy cost of unessential, but highly profitable, variations, such as in-door ice and water dispensers, in-cabinet ice makers, and french doors. The yellow tag system is not clear how much of an energy penalty there are to these options.
In contrast, the EU standards are much more rigorous and useful. The original system was A-G, A being best. About a decade ago, with improvements in engineering, they added the grades A+, A++ and A+++. In 2021, they grades were revised/simplified, so the current "A" standard is equal to the previous "A+++". The revised standard also include requirements for reparability and recyclability.
I live off-grid (solar only) and was looking for an extremely efficient chest freezer. The best USA was offering was Energy Star, while the EU had by this time stopped selling freezers below B grade. I made a comparison of the standards, and best as I could figure, Energy Star was "F" on the European scale - not a joke.
One part of the standard was how long can a freezer keep cold in a power outage. IIRC, the US standard was it must keep a full freezer located in 20˚C (68˚F) ambient below 0˚ (32˚F) for 24 hours. The A+++ standard required keeping a full freezer below -10˚C (-14˚F) for 100 hours in 25˚C (77˚F) ambient.
In short, the Energy Star doesn't really mean anything. Essentially all products "comply" but are barely better than their predecessors.
Sadly, I was not able to import the Liebherr European freezer due to electricity issues. No problem with USA 240 V vs. European 230 V, the challenge is it needs 50 hz power, not 60 hz. Discussions with their engineers stated that the motor would work for a while, but the higher frequency meant they would likely burn out quickly. I explored getting a frequency converter but it seemed more complicated and expensive than I wanted.
Liebherr does now sell refrigeration in the US with 60 hz, but nowhere close to the A+++ European standard.
edit: corrected details
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So in your world it's fine and dandy if republicans break laws, and there's nothing that can be done about it but wait a couple years.
Bullshit.
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Long detailed edge case notwithstanding, the solution to your concern is not "no standard."
If you want to advocate for a better standard, then do so. Don't imply tossing the standard haphazardly with no replacement is somehow a "mixed" blessing.
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What they don’t say is that the government will be drowned in a bathtub full of debt.
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Yeah, you can power the pumps in a heat pump using anything that will create motive power. So a little Newcomen engine would work fine, and burn a lot of coal.
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It's also worth highlighting that the EU system had to be rejigged in 2017 (after being introduced in 1992), to rescale all of the bands, since over the years everything had become more efficient, meaning that almost everything was in the bands A to A+++. Ie, the scheme had achieved exactly what it was supposed to do – make manufacturers compete to produce more efficient products.
The new bands, from 2017, are such that everything has dropped about three bands, so the most efficient things on the market are now band B (-ish), and therefore once more have plenty of scope to improve competitively.
(Details in DLJD's useful link.)
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Well, awkshully...
https://www.commondreams.org/news/trump-musk
A Clinton-appointed judge has recently had something to say about that.
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Here you go: https://www.gas-refrigerators.com/unique-off-grid-10-cubic-foot-propane-refrigerator
OK, so not 8actually* coal, but fossil-fuel, so close enough for this administration, right?
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They do label products with their estimated consumption in a standardized environment (much like fuel consumption in cars). And there are public listings of the numbers for different models, so you can compare among models. True, there’s either “energy star” or “not energy star”. I suspect that setting the tiers would be a pretty heavy political challenge. Just publishing the numbers is probably enough.
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Clean coal, please. Only the highest grade anthracite from American (i.e. US) sources in the Eastern US. None of that horrible soft coal from the western states.
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And with the current administration working to remove child labor laws, you’ll be able to get small children to pick the slate out of the coal as it zooms by on the conveyor. You’ll also be able to provide manual labor to shovel the coal into the boiler, and, again, small children to go into the ash pit and remove the clinker and ashes. Just think, we’re bringing back such valuable jobs as stokers and firemen.
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Steven Nadel's quote is a good candidate to be reused as often nowadays as photos of Peter Tuchman on big stock market days.
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This took me back...my grandmother had a coal stove. The percolator on the top: a coal powered coffee maker!
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Why settle for just a refrigerator?
https://lowtechinstitute.org/2021/04/01/backyard-coal-plant-new-diy-project/
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“I’m not sure they totally thought it through,” Nadel said.
Oh, I'm sure...they did not. Has anything the current regime done been thought through at all?
Oh, I'm sure...they did not. Has anything the current regime done been thought through at all?
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And, a leading question, what happens when government no longer performs any functions "that help people?"
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Texas should be terrified of this news, we cant even keep the lights on with the Energy Star devices.
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This was a very necessary act. You see, science, common sense, reason, prudence, and the law of physics have all conspired to force a vicious woke agenda on the American oil companies. It must stop, because blind ideology reasons. Oh and because if you raze everything in sight it’s harder for the libs to win, ha ha.
Correction: it is clear. It’s illegal. It’s unconstitutional. And they don’t give a fuck. The legislative branch is broken. The judicial branch seems safe to ignore. The constitution seems safe to ignore. The GOP base wants blood and they don’t even care if half of it is their own. They won’t even register whether it is or not. And they only believe what their leaders tell them anyway.
Goodbye, America. I hope you fight like hell and build something new and (actually) great in its place. Returning to the before times is not only unrealistic, it just kicks the can to the next fascist power grabber.
Correction: it is clear. It’s illegal. It’s unconstitutional. And they don’t give a fuck. The legislative branch is broken. The judicial branch seems safe to ignore. The constitution seems safe to ignore. The GOP base wants blood and they don’t even care if half of it is their own. They won’t even register whether it is or not. And they only believe what their leaders tell them anyway.
Goodbye, America. I hope you fight like hell and build something new and (actually) great in its place. Returning to the before times is not only unrealistic, it just kicks the can to the next fascist power grabber.
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A prior poster articulated why you are mistaken. Most appliances in use in this country are purchased by those who do not play for their consumption costs and who worry only about first dollar.
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This applies to literally every single thing this administration does.
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Perfect description of my ex wife.
(Sorry, off topic, but we could all use some levity, right?)
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But most devices will last for some time; they will break down and you will have the cost about the time when Democrates take over again, so it's all their fault.
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They are bringing historic numbers of lawsuits to stop it. It's really upsetting the MAGA crowd.
But at the end of the day, until he is removed from office, there's a limit to what can be done if the executive ignores judicial orders. And for that, we need Republicans to speak out and help put a stop to this. And they don't seem very motivated to do so, for the most part.
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I almost wish it was any sort of thought process remotely as rational as this.
It’s clearly a Find-All and Delete operation on government activities by keyword.
If the US was an unwieldy and inconsistently formatted Word doc before, this administration is turning it into the kind of mangled mess you wish you could just throw away and start over.
But you can’t.
We are about to spend the rest of most of our lives just trying to get things back where they were.
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I disagree. There have been a few lawsuits brought by democrats, but nearly all have been brought by other parties, like unions, AARP, families of illegally arrested/deported people, and so on. The dems are mostly just looking at the ground and tut-tutting.
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It is easy to understand why they would do this. It involves the government doing something therefore it must be eliminated. It has nothing to do with what the program is, only that it involves the government.
The Heritage Foundation should have been treated as a terrorist group a long time ago. They are more destructive than any terrorist organization.
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Describe what gives "the dems" standing in any of these cases. Their official recourse is through their constitutional body, whose agenda is currently set wholly by...[checks notes]...not "the dems."
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Drumphf and his minions are on a quest to bring down civilization so the billionaires can rule unimpeded.
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All you had to do was do an internet search and you would see what it is. It's a no brainer .
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I have a stove that is over 45 years old. Every once in a while I wish the damn thing would just die already because I can't see Harvest Gold ever making a comeback.
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I think many agree this is the outlook. Vance is all the vanity and pettiness and misplaced self confidence of Trump, plus some actual understanding of government, plus the attitude of the most insufferable “just asking questions!” Podcasts. But where Trump has some guiding principles based on his failing memory of what was popular opinion among New York’s richest assholes in the 80s, Vance has, at best, an adherence only to his own self-promotion, and otherwise a desperate need to be loved by modern red-pill Reddit thread assholes.
Trump only knows what he sees on TV. Vance is the equivalent product of the Internet.
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When you are the minority party what can you do other than encourage law suits against the EPA.
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What are the democrats supposed to do without any congressional majority? With a broken supreme court?
They can say lots of angry things, but our government was broken by design for handling this, and it has only gotten worse in the past few decades.
So, fundamentally, what do people think the Democrats can do? Do they realize that the minority party in the US congresses can't bring an agenda, all it can really do is vote and, when appropriate, try to filibuster?
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