Hyundai’s super-efficient 2020 Sonata Hybrid sedan is best in class
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You must have one helluva case of narcissistic personality disorder to think that was aimed at you personally. It clearly was not.
Chill the fuck out and maybe take your meds.
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The Optima did not get the new powertrain and so is still at "only" 40mpg combined. On the somewhat positive note it still has a PHEV version for those who want it, and it gets an EPA 101 MPGe (though at only 28 miles of max all electric range it's going to be somewhat lower than that for most folks without workplace charging).
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The Kona Electric most certainly is available in the US, but only in CARB states, it's basically a compliance vehicle here.
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I am not convinced that you are convinced yet, so let me give you myself as a specific example.
A BEV is only practical if you have a charger where you park overnight. I live in a town home that has no garage, carport or driveway. I park in a communal lot where the nearest parking space is over 50' from my house. It has no charger. Given that my neighbors show up with torches and pitchforks every time the HOA proposes a $5 fee increase, there won't be a charger any time soon. The only way I can plug in a BEV is to literally run an extension cord down the sidewalk past two of my neighbors' houses.
A BEV does not work for me. A BEV will not work for me for the foreseeable future. I am not going to take the major financial hit required for me to sell my current house and buy something that has a garage just so I can drive a BEV. Even if I were willing to, there will still be someone living in my house who doesn't have access to a charger. Public transit does not work for me, unless you consider 3 transfers and nearly tripling my commute time "working". Literally the best thing I can do is buy a hybrid.
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I had a 2015 Limited. It was a nice car and got good milage for my daily commute.
I drove it out to Washington DC last summer for vacation. When heading home, the transmission crapped out with only 135,000 miles on the odometer. The local dealer wanted 6 grand to fix it. I got rid of it as soon as I got home.
A mechanic told me the electric motor cooked the transmission, since the electric motor was mated directly to the transmission. Until the transmission cooling issue is addressed, I'm not looking at any hybrids in the foreseeable future.
I drove it out to Washington DC last summer for vacation. When heading home, the transmission crapped out with only 135,000 miles on the odometer. The local dealer wanted 6 grand to fix it. I got rid of it as soon as I got home.
A mechanic told me the electric motor cooked the transmission, since the electric motor was mated directly to the transmission. Until the transmission cooling issue is addressed, I'm not looking at any hybrids in the foreseeable future.
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Mechanics often don't know jack shit about how things actually work. Just because one random one says "the electric motor cooked the transmission" does not confirm that it was the cause, or a significant issue. Your transmission was more likely a victim of "lifetime" fluid service specification than excess heat from the electric motor.
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Yah that steering wheel design is forgettable. Problem is it’s not forgettable because it’s the steering wheel and you’re forced to look at it every drive.
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All the screwing around to lower drag, and manufacturers *still* aren't covering the wheel wells? It's insane.
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The 2020 Camry Hybrid LE also gets 52MPG like the "Blue" variant of the Sonata hybrid (they're also practically the same price). I wonder what each car trades off to achieve the same rating. I'm thinking about this since the Cd of the Sonata is better and it also has a larger 1.6kwh battery vs the 1.04kwh battery in the LE variant of the Camry Hybrid.
It would be nice to have more details like the tires sizes and whether grip/braking were traded off for efficiency.
It would be nice to have more details like the tires sizes and whether grip/braking were traded off for efficiency.
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Interestingly Toyota sells two hybrid versions of the Camry the LE is the highest mpg because of its better battery. I think compared to this you would need to compare to the lower mpg Camrys in terms of matching the equipment list as it was equipped in this test car.
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I changed the tyres of a 2nd Gen Prius from the OEM low rolling resistance Bridgestone Turanza to Michelin Cross-Climate Plus, as we have snow for about 1 week (at most) a year.
5mpg loss (Imperial gallons) but the car turns corners better, never slips and the really annoying feature of the torque limiter kicking in every time I tried to turn from a halt has stopped. I would not go back!
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lol not gonna happen in DFW that's for sure. They sign petitions to prevent DART extending to neighborhoods 'round here.
God I fucking hate this place.
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It makes sense though.
It's limited extras, not a limited sale number edition like the marketing people invented.
So a much more natural use of the word.
Which is of course entirely un-american.
M.
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The bigger wheel may weigh a bit more, but the lower profile tyre will surely weigh less?
Compare an 18 inch wheel to a 16 inch wheel. The rim is going to be approx. 12.5% heavier if it has the same section (2/16). The spokes may be somewhat heavier but that surely depends on the wheel design and material - just using a more expensive alloy could negate that. Against that you have lost two sections of sidewall 1 inch by about 50 inches, which is a substantial amount of rubber.
I think it needs to be demonstrated by actual real world examples that the moment of inertia of the larger wheel + tyre is significantly larger than that of the smaller one.
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Yes, I already did it on my wife's car. The strange noise exiting our drive (which I suspected was wheel scrub) immediately disappeared.
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Yes, a lower profile tire will weigh less than a higher profile tire that ends up giving you roughly the same total diameter. But the weight savings of the wheel will make up for it. And having less weight in the wheel, which is the more dense and more central piece, means the weight is closer to the center which reduces moment of inertia.
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Wow, that's actually a nice looking car and if I was in the market for a new one, that would definitely be on the short list. To me, it's one of the best looking hybrids that I've seen that isn't priced out of range for most people.
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I genuinely like the Ioniq, but yes - it is small. If your kid's in a rear-facing carrier, the only place that will fit is behind the front passenger seat, which has to be slid forward to make room, so for practical purposes it's a three-seat car in that mode.
If it weren't for that, I'd probably have one of the all-electric models already.
I'm in my early 30s with two kids and a dog, and I have the exact same thought. The hybrid Sonata as a wagon would be an obvious leading candidate for us. The hybrid Sonata as an AWD PHEV wagon would be "why bother cross shopping anything else when this is so obviously perfect". (No need to give it low-range 4x4, or even mechanical AWD at all - just a 30 hp electric transaxle at the back to help it get moving uphill on snow & ice.)
As a sedan, I have a harder time getting interested. There's no good place to confine a dog in a sedan, for one thing. You can't put him on the kids' laps, you can't put him in the trunk, you can't put him on the rear floorboards.
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Stop producing hybrids and increase production of plug-in hybrids with, at least, 5 - 10kWh battery!
99% drivers commute daily 10 - 50km and they could do it purely on battery. In any other case they have petrol engine.
99% drivers commute daily 10 - 50km and they could do it purely on battery. In any other case they have petrol engine.
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I'm with you on the second part (more PHEVs) but not on the first part (fewer hybrids).
Hybrids like this one do not displace PHEVs; they displace conventional gas-powered cars. PHEV production is limited primarily by the unit cost and the supply chain capacity for lithium ion batteries, and secondarily by the willingness / ability of car buyers to pay the higher capital cost over a comparable hybrid or ICE.
From a total fleetwide emissions standpoint, which is preferable?
(a) Sell 200,000 hybrids with 2 kWh batteries at $28,000, averaging 5 L/100km each
(b) Sell 180,000 conventionally-powered cars at $25,000, averaging 8 L/100km, plus 20,000 PHEVs with 20 kWh batteries at $40,000, averaging 2 L/100km.
Scenario "b" is 48% worse on total fuel burn and total emissions, for the same available capacity in the battery factory and supply chain. It incurs higher engineering costs and higher business risks. It also concentrates the total cost of ownership benefit in the hands of the wealthiest 10% of buyers, providing no benefit to the 90% who cannot afford the higher CapEx.
So yes, let's scale up battery-making and engineering design capacity to allow more PHEVs, but in the meantime, hybridizing everything we possibly can is a prudent and valuable move in its own right.
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This is a "plug" not a "review".
"plug" - Everything is great
"review" - This is great. This not so much. Maybe redesign this...
"plug" - Everything is great
"review" - This is great. This not so much. Maybe redesign this...
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It's only a review if the reviewer finds something they don't like? Nah bro. Sometimes a movie, a book, or a car is really just that good; at least for any given reviewer.
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I think you're confusing the complaint about the low horsepower of the electric motor, versus the relatively low horsepower of the ICE.
Further, torque is more often key over horsepower. The muscle-car era was dominated by cars that were fast, but whose horsepower numbers, especially when adjusted to SAE Net numbers, are considered less-than-impressive by todays standards. Lots of low end torque was what gave them their reputation.
I'm not sure where you're going with the touchpad comment.
The hybrid system used by Toyota (presumably others as well, since it works), combines the ICE with two electric motors. One is low torque high speed, the other is high torque low speed.
Nobody buys a hybrid because they're expecting them to be quick or fast. They buy them for practicality combined with low fuel consumption. Your complaint on that point is akin to complaining about how the Chevy Corvette isn't roomy enough for a family of four.
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Has Hyundai ever updated their dealership model to match their product ambitions?
$22,000 after all incentives and rebates! We'll let you know which ones you qualified for in the finance office-- that puts you at a $600/mo "fully protected" payment! Rate and term? We'll go over that with you on the paperwork. Don't forget the GAP insurance, these things lose value like crazy!
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For me a PHEV would be worse than a regular hybrid because I have no place to plug in. Yes, I could buy a PHEV and never plug it in, but I could also buy a hybrid and put a layer of bricks in the trunk. The biggest practical difference is that bricks are cheaper.
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password123
Ars Scholae Palatinae
I did a test drive of the Ioniq, first year model, the handling was fairly good as was the driving experience, short though it was. It had some decent acceleration, up a hill from a slow start, to merge into a freeway, was impressed enough. Not super fast, but worked on this challenging entrance ramp. On the whole seemed like a rather decent sedan.
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"It seems like every article we write explaining just how good Korean cars have become is met with surprise."
my first car was a 1993 Japanese-beetle-green Hyundai Excel. it was as bare-bones as you could get, yet attracted car-radio thieves like crazy. seeing reviews like this gives me the same feeling i get when i wake up and realize that the sleazy conman from the NYC tabloids is now President.
my first car was a 1993 Japanese-beetle-green Hyundai Excel. it was as bare-bones as you could get, yet attracted car-radio thieves like crazy. seeing reviews like this gives me the same feeling i get when i wake up and realize that the sleazy conman from the NYC tabloids is now President.
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I'll take a lightly used 3 series any day of the week over this. With a 2.0 diesel, you'll get that kind of mileage without the bullshit hybrid tech. At least in europe.
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Do you base all your other decisions on information that’s 27 years out of date? Seems a weird thing to boast about but OK.
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Totally agree about the logo. I think a redesign will be key to Hyundai's future.
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The Prius Prime electric motor has 70 hp, or 40% more power than the electric motor of the Sonata.
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Source?
The Sonata also uses a stepped gear transmission rather than a continuously variable transmission.
And, regardless of those: what is your point? If the motor is sufficient for the standard hybrid version, what would make it insufficient for a plug-in hybrid version?
Total horsepower for the Sonata is significantly greater than the Prius, despite being only slightly heavier. You don't need a ton of horsepower for cruising and light/moderate acceleration. just a reasonable amount of torque.
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That's my point. The "Blue" version of the Sonata Hybrid has higher MPG than the normal Sonata Hybrid just like the Camry LE is more efficient than the other Camry Hybrids.
In both cases, they're the lower trim so they can get away with smaller 16" wheels and less gizmos.
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Wikipedia actually says that the Prius Prime produces 91 hp in EV mode.
50 hp is definitely insufficient for a theoretical PHEV version of the Sonata. The 91 hp motor in the Prius Prime lets it do 0-60 in around 15 seconds in EV mode, which is about as already slower than many people would tolerate. A less powerful motor in a bigger and heavier car would be basically unsuitable for highway driving.
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