I was writing an article about them, but my backup failed and the data were obfuscated. Not to worry, though--I'll have it all recovered by next week. Tuesday at the latest.abj21":2hrpn6k1 said:I recommend Leafy Host!
Why bother? It isn't more robust or secure than Apache or Nginx, and it is considerably more expensive. Apache wasn't discussed in detail either.Hercules":39xvmnl9 said:If you go *nix only without saying IIS is pretty robust/secure out of the box, then it's really not a good article imo.
Hercules":14zcipjr said:If you go *nix only without saying IIS is pretty robust/secure out of the box, then it's really not a good article imo.
Nitpick, perhaps, but flavors of XP are still the most common OS.ni1":n289llvy said:The "average person" is going to be running Windows 7 most likely, which includes IIS at no charge.
JRod":3b1eid9v said:Holy biased article batman. ........
Going with the server flavor of the distro instead of a desktop flavor means that you'll end up without a GUI on the system when you're done installing it. This is a good thing. Don't fear the command line! It's faster and more efficient to edit a few configuration files to get things up and running than it is to wade through screens and screens of preference panes, clicking on options that you have to visually identify, crippled by the lack of a quick way to search for what you want. GUIs are available for the server distros if you need that crutch, but we're not going to get into them—the command line is the best way to interact with your Web server and that's what we're going to use here.
JRod":3dca2v88 said:"The Internet and the services that make it run are fundamentally Unix-grown and Unix-oriented. Playing in this playground means you need a Linux or a BSD server, full stop."
Holy biased article batman. Thats like saying if you need to surf the web and play angry birds, the iPad is the only way to play in that playground.
mohaine":1dj4besa said:JRod":1dj4besa said:Holy biased article batman. ........
Fanboy much? The article was about how to setup a cheap web server and it did that. Don't cry that your favorite tech wasn't selected.
luipugs":1ax786wp said:Regarding SSH access, you can change the listening port for SSH in your web server to further reduce the number of automatic logon attempts. Most of them are configured to poke only at port 22, so doing this simple change would save you a lot of trouble. This can be done by changing the Port option in /etc/ssh/sshd_config.
baloroth":1nikpqog said:Sure, you could set up a simple IIS server quite easily, but the knowledge from that is a lot less flexible and useful than the knowledge from setting up an nginx server.
FWIW, my closet server runs five sites (including the chronicles of george) and has weathered a couple of Ars front page links. By far the limiting factor is my little home connection's upload bandwidth--it's only 2Mbps, and it saturates at about 100 concurrent connections per second, according to benching with Blitz.io.JRod":3vlnf9y4 said:That said - if you're interested enough in setting up a website to go through all these steps to setup your site, I really doubt you're only going to expect the max of 10 users to connect to it. On the same token, I've run my mother in laws two business websites for years now via IIS without ever purchasing a server operating system, and haven't experienced any known security issues. I just patch it and use NAT, nothing fancy. A couple of my old business clients who failed to patch their IIS servers suffered security issues so I totally understand where it gets the stigma of being insecure...
All comes down to different strokes for different folks.
Can you elaborate on this? How is the internet 'fundamentally' a Unix-y construct and what disadvantages, besides potentially price, would someone using IIS be at if they went that route instead?Lee Hutchinson":dstvde29 said:Security and robustness can't be discussed in a vacuum, though. The Internet is fundamentally a Unix-y construct, and if you want to learn about how it works, doing it with *nix technologies is the way to go.
Pokrface":1zysxjxv said:Hercules":1zysxjxv said:If you go *nix only without saying IIS is pretty robust/secure out of the box, then it's really not a good article imo.
Security and robustness can't be discussed in a vacuum, though. The Internet is fundamentally a Unix-y construct, and if you want to learn about how it works, doing it with *nix technologies is the way to go. A *nix operating system is absolutely the right tool for the job here. (Though there's a holy war to be fought over whether running a web server based on a Linux distro is better than a web server based on a BSD, and Nginx is really a BSD-minded application from BSD-minded folks.)
Besides, I can't think of a way an average person can get up and running with a Windows box + IIS without some outlay of money (disregarding mooching a copy of Windows from someone else). Doing it with Linux in a VM costs zero dollars.
This. Select the port carefully if you want to access your server from behind a corporate firewall. They often block all but a handful of destination ports (5 or so) on remote hosts.luipugs":1tsu8stj said:Regarding SSH access, you can change the listening port for SSH in your web server to further reduce the number of automatic logon attempts. Most of them are configured to poke only at port 22, so doing this simple change would save you a lot of trouble. This can be done by changing the Port option in /etc/ssh/sshd_config.
Pokrface":u2gquyij said:FWIW, my closet server runs five sites (including the chronicles of george) and has weathered a couple of Ars front page links. By far the limiting factor is my little home connection's upload bandwidth--it's only 2Mbps, and it saturates at about 100 concurrent connections per second, according to benching with Blitz.io.JRod":u2gquyij said:That said - if you're interested enough in setting up a website to go through all these steps to setup your site, I really doubt you're only going to expect the max of 10 users to connect to it. On the same token, I've run my mother in laws two business websites for years now via IIS without ever purchasing a server operating system, and haven't experienced any known security issues. I just patch it and use NAT, nothing fancy. A couple of my old business clients who failed to patch their IIS servers suffered security issues so I totally understand where it gets the stigma of being insecure...
All comes down to different strokes for different folks.
It's all personal stuff, though--total PV count across all of them is maybe 5k on a good day. If I were actually doing anything "real", I'd absolutely be doing it through a hosting company. I ain't that crazy![]()
Nonsense. IIS has almost nothing to do with "Windows" as is known by the sort of person this article is targeting.gamoniac":k3e2vtub said:Assuming most people are milked by cell phone companies like I am ($140/mo with 2 years contract = $3360), shelling out $500 for a copy of Windows Server 2012 Essential (link -- http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/server-c ... r/buy.aspx) is not really that big an investment. Especially for folks who are already familiar with Windows, the time saved in not having to learn LAMP easily outweighs the cost.
reflex-croft":3u2990pu said:Can you elaborate on this? How is the internet 'fundamentally' a Unix-y construct and what disadvantages, besides potentially price, would someone using IIS be at if they went that route instead?Lee Hutchinson":3u2990pu said:Security and robustness can't be discussed in a vacuum, though. The Internet is fundamentally a Unix-y construct, and if you want to learn about how it works, doing it with *nix technologies is the way to go.
praetor_alpha":3606k98f said:reflex-croft":3606k98f said:Can you elaborate on this? How is the internet 'fundamentally' a Unix-y construct and what disadvantages, besides potentially price, would someone using IIS be at if they went that route instead?Lee Hutchinson":3606k98f said:Security and robustness can't be discussed in a vacuum, though. The Internet is fundamentally a Unix-y construct, and if you want to learn about how it works, doing it with *nix technologies is the way to go.
I'm puzzled about that claim too. The idea of the internet does not evoke ideas of pipes, shell scripts, and other "Unix-y constructs" to me. Perhaps it was just luck that Unix matured with the Internet? Other platforms don't seem to have any trouble at all being internet hosts.
Its so fundamentally flawed a statement that I am astounded any serious network admin would believe or state it. The Internet is fundamentally a *open standards* construct. Which is awesome! Its got nothing to do with Unix though, much of which, especially in the early years of the internet, was proprietary and owned by mega corps. No client attempts to retrieve a page from a server and goes "Oh, IIS, I'll just deprioritize these packets" and no server declines to serve non-Unix hosts at the same levels as Unix based hosts.praetor_alpha":3i0gh6tp said:reflex-croft":3i0gh6tp said:Can you elaborate on this? How is the internet 'fundamentally' a Unix-y construct and what disadvantages, besides potentially price, would someone using IIS be at if they went that route instead?Lee Hutchinson":3i0gh6tp said:Security and robustness can't be discussed in a vacuum, though. The Internet is fundamentally a Unix-y construct, and if you want to learn about how it works, doing it with *nix technologies is the way to go.
I'm puzzled about that claim too. The idea of the internet does not evoke ideas of pipes, shell scripts, and other "Unix-y constructs" to me. Perhaps it was just luck that Unix matured with the Internet? Other platforms don't seem to have any trouble at all being internet hosts.
reflex-croft":ynqyw6dl said:Can you elaborate on this? How is the internet 'fundamentally' a Unix-y construct and what disadvantages, besides potentially price, would someone using IIS be at if they went that route instead?Lee Hutchinson":ynqyw6dl said:Security and robustness can't be discussed in a vacuum, though. The Internet is fundamentally a Unix-y construct, and if you want to learn about how it works, doing it with *nix technologies is the way to go.
For the claim to be valid, it needs to have some evidence. Is there any? The article is great for someone who wants to know how to build a nginx webserver from scratch on Ubuntu, but I do not understand why you are basing the reasoning on claims about the fundamental nature of the internet.
reflex-croft":3r082x84 said:Its so fundamentally flawed a statement that I am astounded any serious network admin would believe or state it. The Internet is fundamentally a *open standards* construct. Which is awesome! Its got nothing to do with Unix though, much of which, especially in the early years of the internet, was proprietary and owned by mega corps. No client attempts to retrieve a page from a server and goes "Oh, IIS, I'll just deprioritize these packets" and no server declines to serve non-Unix hosts at the same levels as Unix based hosts.praetor_alpha":3r082x84 said:reflex-croft":3r082x84 said:Can you elaborate on this? How is the internet 'fundamentally' a Unix-y construct and what disadvantages, besides potentially price, would someone using IIS be at if they went that route instead?Lee Hutchinson":3r082x84 said:Security and robustness can't be discussed in a vacuum, though. The Internet is fundamentally a Unix-y construct, and if you want to learn about how it works, doing it with *nix technologies is the way to go.
I'm puzzled about that claim too. The idea of the internet does not evoke ideas of pipes, shell scripts, and other "Unix-y constructs" to me. Perhaps it was just luck that Unix matured with the Internet? Other platforms don't seem to have any trouble at all being internet hosts.
The statement is so misguided as to qualify as 'not even wrong'. IIS predates almost every 'fundamental' internet technology mentioned in the article.
You know what did not exist back when the first version of IIS was released? Apache
Windows Server has been able to run this way for quite some time now.flash__":3t5i12hl said:praetor_alpha":3t5i12hl said:reflex-croft":3t5i12hl said:Can you elaborate on this? How is the internet 'fundamentally' a Unix-y construct and what disadvantages, besides potentially price, would someone using IIS be at if they went that route instead?Lee Hutchinson":3t5i12hl said:Security and robustness can't be discussed in a vacuum, though. The Internet is fundamentally a Unix-y construct, and if you want to learn about how it works, doing it with *nix technologies is the way to go.
I'm puzzled about that claim too. The idea of the internet does not evoke ideas of pipes, shell scripts, and other "Unix-y constructs" to me. Perhaps it was just luck that Unix matured with the Internet? Other platforms don't seem to have any trouble at all being internet hosts.
1) If your operating system doesn't allow you to install to on a server without a GUI, something has gone horribly, horribly wrong.
Linux certainly has gained in this market, it wasn't doing so well just a few years ago but the rise of cloud hosting changed that.2) Most of the Internet's servers run Linux. Nearly all of the top sites use LInux exclusively.
This really isn't the point. Nobody is trying to say its wrong to choose Linux. The contention is why would he claim the internet is itself a 'unix-y construct'. Its not. Its a TCP/IP construct with several dozen open standards on top of(and below) that. Many OS's implement those standards and there is no discrimination between them(by design).3) A lot of the top server software is written by people who work on Unix/Linux machines. Their software is really tailored to Unix machines; they might make the necessary changes to make it portable, but they aren't focused on Windows... not by a long shot. Postfix, for instance, seems to be completely unsupported for Windows.
reflex-croft":14qdp1q8 said:Its so fundamentally flawed a statement that I am astounded any serious network admin would believe or state it. The Internet is fundamentally a *open standards* construct. Which is awesome! Its got nothing to do with Unix though, much of which, especially in the early years of the internet, was proprietary and owned by mega corps. No client attempts to retrieve a page from a server and goes "Oh, IIS, I'll just deprioritize these packets" and no server declines to serve non-Unix hosts at the same levels as Unix based hosts.praetor_alpha":14qdp1q8 said:reflex-croft":14qdp1q8 said:Can you elaborate on this? How is the internet 'fundamentally' a Unix-y construct and what disadvantages, besides potentially price, would someone using IIS be at if they went that route instead?Lee Hutchinson":14qdp1q8 said:Security and robustness can't be discussed in a vacuum, though. The Internet is fundamentally a Unix-y construct, and if you want to learn about how it works, doing it with *nix technologies is the way to go.
I'm puzzled about that claim too. The idea of the internet does not evoke ideas of pipes, shell scripts, and other "Unix-y constructs" to me. Perhaps it was just luck that Unix matured with the Internet? Other platforms don't seem to have any trouble at all being internet hosts.
The statement is so misguided as to qualify as 'not even wrong'. IIS predates almost every 'fundamental' internet technology mentioned in the article.
You know what did not exist back when the first version of IIS was released? Apache
Whats Android have to do with the internet as a construct? Its just a client. The dispute is not over whether there is a lot of Unix used online. The issue is the idea that you are somehow at a disadvantage if you run something that is not Unix. This is false, and there is nothing inherently 'unix-y' about the internet.Discoceris":7t1dyo2d said:reflex-croft":7t1dyo2d said:Can you elaborate on this? How is the internet 'fundamentally' a Unix-y construct and what disadvantages, besides potentially price, would someone using IIS be at if they went that route instead?Lee Hutchinson":7t1dyo2d said:Security and robustness can't be discussed in a vacuum, though. The Internet is fundamentally a Unix-y construct, and if you want to learn about how it works, doing it with *nix technologies is the way to go.
For the claim to be valid, it needs to have some evidence. Is there any? The article is great for someone who wants to know how to build a nginx webserver from scratch on Ubuntu, but I do not understand why you are basing the reasoning on claims about the fundamental nature of the internet.
Evidence? Android? You can start there. Much of the internet (Outside of the US) still has roots in Unix. Microsoft would like to have you believe otherwise but then we'll just devolve into a discussion that completely gets away from the actual spirit of the article.