Scientists may have additional tools to produce psilocybin to use for medical purposes.
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How different mushrooms learned the same psychedelic trick
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From the article:
Wait until you hear about this article from Science on caffeine in the nectar of some flowers:
Wait until you hear about this article from Science on caffeine in the nectar of some flowers:
Apart from boosting the bee's memory of the location/appearance/smell of the flower, I can't prevent myself from believing the flower also gets the bee addicted a little, motivating it to return to similar flowers. Yes, I'm anthropomorphizing.
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Gotta love how nature decides that a good self defense mechanism is to get the predator to be trippin balls...
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Is it self-defense or a mechanism to get the veggie predator to come back for more?
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Nora Lenderbee
Ars Tribunus Militum
It's possible to believe that without needing to call it anthropomorphizing. Random selection in nature is quite capable of providing endless interesting results. With that thread of an idea, how about those opium poppies? Do the bees get buzzed?
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Hard to say. One theory is that the blue color psilocybe cubensis mushrooms turn when bruised could be a deterrence mechanism. I'm inclined to think there may be more to it than that, though.
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The term "anthropomorphize" kind of bugs me. It puts humans on a separate pedestal no other animal can achieve because "they don't have souls!", or some other nonsense. There's a lot of commonality between animals. It manifests a little differently between different species, but I think much of the core motivation is the same. It does everyone and science a disservice to reject concepts and behavior because they're "human".
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It is great to see that another biosynthetic route to psilocybin has been found, and that it may facilitate further research into it and related compounds 1.
I am particularly interested in the type of research that is also being done with Ibogaine analogs 2, teasing out the molecular components responsible for, e.g. psychedelic effects as opposed to neuroplasticity that could lead to new non-hallucinogenic compounds that retain neuroplasic and serotonergic effects.
1 Emerging mechanisms of psilocybin-induced neuroplasticity (Science Direct 15 September 2025)
2 Old Dog, New Tricks: Ibogaine and Its Analogs as Potential Neurotherapeutics (Journal of Medicinal Chemistry, ACS Publications 25 September 2025)
ETA: Full source attribution
I am particularly interested in the type of research that is also being done with Ibogaine analogs 2, teasing out the molecular components responsible for, e.g. psychedelic effects as opposed to neuroplasticity that could lead to new non-hallucinogenic compounds that retain neuroplasic and serotonergic effects.
1 Emerging mechanisms of psilocybin-induced neuroplasticity (Science Direct 15 September 2025)
2 Old Dog, New Tricks: Ibogaine and Its Analogs as Potential Neurotherapeutics (Journal of Medicinal Chemistry, ACS Publications 25 September 2025)
ETA: Full source attribution
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Plants will definitely get insects addicted to their nectar if they could; it's a very effective way to get the bug to prefer that species of plants. I'm personally convinced they do it. Plants don't care.
When I wrote "anthropomorphize", I was poking fun at the addiction-related behavior of a very specific anthropos (me). If I were a bug, I would obsessively focus on caffeinated nectar even if the plant decided it was too costly to actually add sugar to the nectar and resolve to only adding caffeine.
Now I wonder if there are plants that make nectar without sugar, relying only on caffeine to attract addicted visitors.
Insects are conscious. I can neither demonstrate nor justify that position, but I will hold it as fact nonetheless. Don't even get me started on spiders. Or molluscs.
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faultedgeologist
Smack-Fu Master, in training
Huberman and Robin on Mushrooms for Treating Depression -
View: https://youtu.be/fcxjwA4C4Cw
There is already a sustainable way to produce psilocybin, producing and consuming mushrooms whole. Dr. Robin I believe said that we need the whole "subjective experience," which may include other compounds or just refer to the non-synthetic full psychedelic experience which he and others have clinically proven as effective treqtment for depression.
I sampled and produced a track with some pieces of the podcast (worthy of your attention for the full 2hrs, link above) titled Take A Pinch of Psychedelic by Protenuator - give it a search if you enjoy Electro.
#TrustLetGoBeOpen #TakeAPinchOfPsychedelic
Thanks for the article, I was unaware of the convergent evolution of psilocybin. If anyone was unaware and wants to find a safe place to ingest magic mushrooms, Colorado and PNW states have legalized the sale and gifting of mushrooms from stores, and have many clinical settings where you can SEE for yourself. As for the dosage Robin talks about, I've never taken that much and I've had many profound experiences over 30 years. Just a little microdose can show you a new path, but 2-3g should only be taken in a setting where you can spend 6hrs safely. We have many of those settings in CO also, such as festivals, raves, and many people's favorite, the mountains. Be with someone experienced and "trust, let go, be open" (Johns Hopkins words).
The world would certainly be a place of greater sympathy if we all had some psilocybin ceremony in our lives. Maybe that is why they Schedule 1 classed it... hm.mm....
View: https://youtu.be/fcxjwA4C4Cw
There is already a sustainable way to produce psilocybin, producing and consuming mushrooms whole. Dr. Robin I believe said that we need the whole "subjective experience," which may include other compounds or just refer to the non-synthetic full psychedelic experience which he and others have clinically proven as effective treqtment for depression.
I sampled and produced a track with some pieces of the podcast (worthy of your attention for the full 2hrs, link above) titled Take A Pinch of Psychedelic by Protenuator - give it a search if you enjoy Electro.
#TrustLetGoBeOpen #TakeAPinchOfPsychedelic
Thanks for the article, I was unaware of the convergent evolution of psilocybin. If anyone was unaware and wants to find a safe place to ingest magic mushrooms, Colorado and PNW states have legalized the sale and gifting of mushrooms from stores, and have many clinical settings where you can SEE for yourself. As for the dosage Robin talks about, I've never taken that much and I've had many profound experiences over 30 years. Just a little microdose can show you a new path, but 2-3g should only be taken in a setting where you can spend 6hrs safely. We have many of those settings in CO also, such as festivals, raves, and many people's favorite, the mountains. Be with someone experienced and "trust, let go, be open" (Johns Hopkins words).
The world would certainly be a place of greater sympathy if we all had some psilocybin ceremony in our lives. Maybe that is why they Schedule 1 classed it... hm.mm....
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Joking/Not Joking aside, this line of research is more serious to me now than is years past.
I wont go into details, but have a friend with severe PTSD recently treated with a micro-dosing trial and the results have been great and very encouraging.
Hopefully this type of research can go forward and many more of our friends can find help were "conventional" means have not exactly been able to offer it.
Edit: Spelling, tenses
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The full subjective experience may or may not be needed for the antidepressant/anti-PTSD/anti-withdrawal/SUD effects of psilocin and related compounds.
It does, however, make research and clinical trials of such compounds more difficult. It also carries risks that should neither be minimized or overblown.
From the reference Emerging mechanisms of psilocybin-induced neuroplasticity I posted in a comment upthread:
Potential cardiac risks also are mentioned:
Ibogaine's cardiac toxicity has limited interest in its research, until structure-based synthetic methods made it possible to produce analogs without this effect. Those methods might be applicable here as well.
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ColdWetDog
Ars Legatus Legionis
Don't disagree, but let me start off the with a Daily Downer: Pretty much any substance that has CNS affects has been used in exactly the same way at some time. It likely is a general effect of a mild altering substance taken at low, controlled doses. The problem lies in pushing the limits of ingestion - then you start to see the detrimental effects. Psilocybin is pretty benign in that regard.
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That's a very broad statement. I'm surprised, and it would be nice to see a source.
EDIT: found a related statement in the linked article
I'm still curious about this. I think the authors mean the independent evolution of a full biochemical pathway, but even with a caveat my reaction still is "surely convergent evolution happens in fungi all the time."
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ColdWetDog
Ars Legatus Legionis
You aren't wrong but fungi biochemistry and genetics (above and beyond yeast) is really an open field. Compared to animals and plants, not a lot of money has gone into it. That is changing, especially as the tools that could only be dreamed up by Nobel Laurates a few decades ago are in the hands of college undergraduates, but lots of work to be done. And fungi are weird.
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While it is very interesting that two disparate pathways to the psiocybin molecule have been discovered in nature, it is not a "Wow, that is completely bonkers" discovery. It is, by biological standards, not a crazy complex molecule. Additionally the backbone is extremely close to a ubiquitous amino acid, tryptophan. So, what with nature throwing anything and everything at the wall to see what sticks, this is interesting but not earthshattering.
That said. As a drug psilocybin is AMAZING. I was a very neurotic college freshman, very stressed about my path in life and very fearful when dorm friends offered me some. I took 30 liberty caps of dried (psilocybe semilenceata), which is about a gram, on an October afternoon. We then climbed a local butte and watched a stormfront approach. My brain went into overdrive and my neurosis spontaneously resolved. As in epiphany. My brain told me to "do the things that seem interesting and you will be OK". It stuck. I ended up studying drugs, first the recreational ones, and not just by taking them, but investigating information on their mechanisms, then a few years later medicinal ones. I ended up going pharmacy school.
That said. As a drug psilocybin is AMAZING. I was a very neurotic college freshman, very stressed about my path in life and very fearful when dorm friends offered me some. I took 30 liberty caps of dried (psilocybe semilenceata), which is about a gram, on an October afternoon. We then climbed a local butte and watched a stormfront approach. My brain went into overdrive and my neurosis spontaneously resolved. As in epiphany. My brain told me to "do the things that seem interesting and you will be OK". It stuck. I ended up studying drugs, first the recreational ones, and not just by taking them, but investigating information on their mechanisms, then a few years later medicinal ones. I ended up going pharmacy school.
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With due respect, if this were not about a trendy hallucinogen it would not be reported on here. Tryptamine is just the decarboxylation metabolite of tryptophan, and very common in all sort of species. We have N,N-dimethylation of the primary amine, a trick that every organism on earth can probably do, 4-hydroxylation of an indole, which many Cyps can undoubtedly do, followed by phosphorylation of a phenol-like derivative, for which there are undoubtedly appropriate phosphorylases/kinases in many or most species. So, the fact that two different organisms do four common metabolizing steps on one of the common 20 naturally occurring amino acids via somewhat different enzymes is hardly surprising. Indeed, within the fungi alone, I would be amazed if there are not other ways of making psilocybin, and it is more the million monkeys with the million typewriters over a million years than it is an example of convergent evolution. Lastly, the only problem I can see with making millions of doses/day of psilocybin from a synthetic chemist's perspective is the 20 years in Club Fed if you are caught. And the marketing woo of handcrafted lovingly for you by possibly sacred mushrooms. Or at least enzymes stripped out from their genomes.
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All I can say is that these helped me come to terms with the early, brutal loss of a parent, as well as a confusing ghosting from what I thought was the loml at the same time, more quickly, strongly, and permanently than even therapy. That's not an anti-therapy comment. Do both. Or, well, do therapy, and maybe think about researching mushrooms. Understand how it opens up a window of dendrite spine connections and the reinforced ones can stay around. That's all I'll say. This is a good start:
https://heysero.co/ptsd-treatment-with-psilocybin-mushrooms/
https://heysero.co/ptsd-treatment-with-psilocybin-mushrooms/
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As background--I am a retired organic chemist with minimal awareness of the biochemistry involved here. In addition, I have no personal experience with recreational drug use (including psychedelics).
Now (and what follows probably deserves downvotes).. I am perfectly serious in my post here (no snark intended). And at the end, I have a question for the ars readers posting here who do have experience with psychedelics.
=====
I have never been as worried as I am right now, in terms of the country (and indeed the world) that our two daughters are inheriting from my wife and I.
For example:
Here is what Trump presidential advisor Corey Lewandowski said about sending ICE to the next Super Bowl, an event that includes, as halftime entertainment, a performance from the Puerto Rican star Bad Bunny--
First, on Lewandowski on Bad Bunny's invitation:
"The NFL has been so woke for so many years, they finally decided to make a comeback. But it's so shameful that they've decided to pick somebody who just seems to hate America so much to represent them at the halftime game."
Then, Lewandowski on ICE at the Super Bowl:
"There is nowhere that you can provide safe haven to people who are in this country illegally, not the Super Bowl and nowhere else. We will find you, we will apprehend you. We will put you in a detention facility and we will deport you."
I couldn't figure out where I had heard talk like this before...and then it hit me.
In the movie 'Taken', the Liam Neeson character says this (on the telephone, to a bad guy who was involved in the kidnapping of Neeson's daughter):
"If you let my daughter go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you."
My oh my.
Here is my question.
So psilocybin has done good things for some people.
What effect might psilocybin have on people with serious anger issues?
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I have severe depression. Mushrooms are fine as a supplemental medication. They aren't a good replacement though, because they are short acting (you develop a tolerance), and, for me, they increased risk taking behavior.
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My chronic anxiety kept at bay by psilocybin once every 3 months. Very grateful. It works for me (even if some of if may be placebo effect)
PS: Here it is legal and prescribed by my psychiatrist.
PS: Here it is legal and prescribed by my psychiatrist.
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The immediate psychoactive effect is short term, but a single dose of mushrooms can produce significant results in treatment resistant depression even a year later. Tolerance is when it's used regularly, but with results potentially that long term without daily dosing, it's worth a lot more research at least
"75% response and 58% remission at 12 months"
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/new...or-up-to-a-year-for-most-patients-study-shows
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I'll disagree by saying that I think it's fortunate this important research was reported on here in spite of the deeply-ingrained stigma associated with all proscribed psychoactive substances, particularly in the U.S.
Psilocin, Ibogaine, LSD and DMT are among such substances whose effect on the human brain goes far beyond hallucinatory or psychedelic effects. Promoting dendritic spinal growth or neuronal thickening and effects on the serotonergic system that go beyond available reuptake inhibitors, and in the case of ibogaine, produce effects on the serotonin transport that are unknown in any other compound 1, including but not limited to its remarkable efficacy treating opioid addiction - not as maintenance, but long-term abstinence.
The fact that such stigma is still attached to these drugs in spite of their potential as therapeutics (I can reference several examples that are in phase I or II clinical trials now) that have been specifically engineered to be non-hallucinogenic or habit-forming speaks to how persistent that stigma is.
The drugs so engineered that are in trials now include those intended as effective treatment for PTSD/blast injuries, treatment-resistant depression and substance abuse disorder. Whether those trials result in marketable therapeutics or not, I believe it is a step in the right direction towards effective medications.
1 Structure-based discovery of conformationally selective inhibitors of the serotonin transporter (Cell Journal, 11 May 2023)
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This is my speculation only, but neuronal growth or dendritic lengthening stimulation may provide a foundation for long-term change (new 'wiring' in the brain) that may be best utilized by pairing with effective therapy to guide the brain's use of that new wiring in a productive direction.
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That very much depends on the person. If a person is prone to psychosis, psychedelics are to be avoided, clinically or otherwise. If you are concerned about psilocin's (or related substances) hallucinogenic effects (or stated more generally "are wary of things people use to get high"), then I'd really recommend you check some of the references I posted in my other comments in this thread (here and here).
You might find some things of interest, particularly with your O-chem background.
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ColdWetDog
Ars Legatus Legionis
Set. Setting.
That's the standard mantra for hallucinogenic drugs. Preparation for taking the drug, the dose and the environment you take the drug in all work in concert to determine how an individual reacts. That is why more formal / traditional settings (various Indian tribes for example) work better than just munching on a couple of mushrooms.
For people with anger issues, the exact same applies. You can't just give them the drug and expect a good outcome. They would need some sort of structure. That would very likely be 'woke' or at least antithetical to the ICE experience.
You'd probably do better with Valium.
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You did not address my point that only because this article is about a trendy psychedelic did it get this exposure. Scientifically, it is a nothing burger, dressed up with a fancy pickle. No, it is not a dramatic example of convergent evolution in a hitherto undemonstrated phylum, and no it is not the answer to at the first practical synthesis of psilocybin. From a cultural perspective it may be good publicity, or it may be bad publicity, and may or may not lead to saner dug policy. But those were not the criteria I used to criticize the article.
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I'll restate the point I made in an earlier comment. The most important information in the article is that an alternate biosynthetic pathway to psilocybin was found. Not because it offers a first practical synthesis of psilocybin or because of convergent evolution, or how it can be produced sustainably, although I think that is in fact important in regard to psilocin analogs' potential as therapeutics with a chance to actually make it to market. If the article erred, it is in not hammering this point home - expanded opportunities into research on related compounds, not just psilocybin itself.
Subtle misunderstandings about the biosynthesis and chemistry of ibogaine stymied efforts to continue research for many years. Better understanding led to sytheses that are far more economical and less complex, and greatly accelerated research. I've been following it for 27 years and by 2010 had just about given up hope. I have less interest in psilocybin and its analogs personally, but that does not make this a nothingburger.
ETA: The reason I point out stigma in regard to your post is the odd inclusion of "Lastly, the only problem I can see with making millions of doses/day of psilocybin from a synthetic chemist's perspective is the 20 years in Club Fed if you are caught." Where does that come from, when the synthetic chemists doing the work that is relevant to this article's subject matter do it within the letter of the law in furtherance of legitimate research?
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BobbyBobberson
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Has anyone been through a psilocybin medical study trial? I'm curious about the procedures and setting.
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I’m completely baffled why anthropomorphism would put humans on some kind of pedestal. The problem with anthropomorphizing is that other organisms may not think, feel or act the same way we do. The problem is not that it requires us believing that the way we think, feel and act is somehow better.
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Here's my take.
So, for me, I have some inherited anger issues stemming from nature+nurture, as well as some communication and interperosnal relationship failings that slowed my maturity. Anger is generally a byproduct of fear (that I'm not good enough) or lack of control (over my environment, routine, job, whatever) for me. Or, that's my take on it without having a series of professionals give me a more complete picture. I would suspect some other folks might say somthing similar. That said, I have worked with professionals to root out the problems and work on them. I have not sought out a proper therapeutic environment with professional coaching while using psilocybin.
Psilocybin has never caused a more severe anger response for me. Not ever. Frankly, it does the opposite. It sheds away anxiety and allows me to criticize myself without being so judgy or scared, or reinforcing self-hate. I generally don't have negative thoughts creep in when using that substance, and that is one reason that I seek it out. Beiing able to look at choices, situations, the past -or whatever trauma that might be lingering- without all that extra weight has helped me to learn about, accept and try to break those cycles that send me into a depressive, impotent rage.
TL;DR, Something, something, ego death.
I used to think that term ego death was silly, but it seems a pretty good one.
Another person said Set and Setting. I agree with that as well. I commonly would make those therapeutic nights a steak night, prepping a meal with meat+potato+veggie all made at home, with a planned time for reflection, ending the night with a game or a movie to wind down to bed. Not that I'm recommending that. If anyone is searching for solutions to anger through drug use, maybe do it in a controlled environment with professionals that can properly help you.
Anyway, my only point is that you shouldn't focus on a bad possibility regarding this substance, as the good -in my opinion - far outweighs the bad. At the very least, this requires more research and should get the attention it deserves in the form of research moneys and reducing stigma towards what people think of as illicit substances. Or simply, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Keep an open mind. Think about the things that ARE legal that lend to anger in a more dangerous way. Like booze.
To challenge your question above just a bit: (no snark intended).
Change the word psilcybin to gun in your question, and what thoughts do you have about that in terms of what it means for your kids to grow into a society filled with anger+guns, or anger+alcohol+guns - as opposed to anger+happy-time drugs.
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Oh my. What a thoughtful response.
Guns?
...and 'Serious anger issues?'
I will answer your question with a link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_by_death_toll
...and...
...a quote from the recently murdered Charlie Kirk:
"I think it’s worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational."
– Event organized by TPUSA Faith, the religious arm of Kirk’s conservative group Turning Point USA, on 5 April 2023
I used to say I fear for the future of my country. The United States of America.
I now say I fear for my country's present.
Guns?
...and 'Serious anger issues?'
I will answer your question with a link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_by_death_toll
...and...
...a quote from the recently murdered Charlie Kirk:
"I think it’s worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational."
– Event organized by TPUSA Faith, the religious arm of Kirk’s conservative group Turning Point USA, on 5 April 2023
I used to say I fear for the future of my country. The United States of America.
I now say I fear for my country's present.
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I don't know anyone that has been through one personally, but the paper Therapeutic Use of LSD in Psychiatry: A Systematic Review of Randomized-Controlled Clinical Trials (focus on LSD, but much of the procedural and setting data still likely relevant), which is cited in the paper on psilocybin's neuroplasticity in my earlier comment, may be of interest.
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Yeah, I'm with you on that note.
I have a whole rant that I hope to never get into again about how we got here as a collective. It has little to do with drugs and guns, and has everythng to do with education and the dissolution of critical thinking skills. I still stand by my argument that G.W. Bush's worst act as president was the No Child Left Behind act. I believe we're now beginning to see the fruit borne of that legislation.
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I must post that I agree with this. I have little doubt that a thorough inventory of the contents of a wide variety of the myriad fungal species and their biochemical products would find many more routes to psilocybin.
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...in terms of what I know education (and critical thinking skills) to be (and I suspect your views are consonant with mine), I now believe that today's garden variety Republican politician does not believe in educating our entire population of citizens.
I am pretty certain that is the view of the conservative Christian wing of the Republican party as well.
I know that is a cynical view...but that is what I believe.
FWIW, I sort of bought into some of what I understood No Child Left Behind to be.
My wife, who volunteered at both of our daughters' schools (for several years, including most of W's presidency)...was ALWAYS against NCLB.
She was (as usual!?) right.
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Haha, I do feel similarly. About education, modern conservatism, the cynicism, and that the venerable 'she' is usually (always) right.
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From my understanding, the paperwork is onerous. Shulgin certainly thought so. Yet enough people apparently feel it worthwhile to do that paperwork, and then embark on the hideously complex work of trying to discern which structural components are responsible for which of their myriad effects on the brain, then determine if the desirable therapeutic effects such as neuroplasticity and serotonergic regulation are separable from the hallucinogenic effects (I am not passing judgment on the potential therapeutic effects of the subjective experience, only that they come with substantial baggage with regard to evaluating clinical trial data and societal stigma).
One of these days I should probably organize the references I've scattered around, in case it's of interest. There's one in particular that speaks to the specifics of the latter issue: Tabernanthalog Spurs Neuroplasticity Without Immediate Gene Activation (Bioengineer.org, 6 September 2025)
As far as additional routes waiting to be found in nature, I agree that you are very likely correct. But someone would need to do that work first. Maybe someone will make use of the one that has been found recently. The economics of > gram scale synthesis of compounds like these seems to matter a great deal to those doing the work to develop much-needed therapeutics based on them, so I am glad to see reporting that makes a nod to those considerations, warts and all.
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