How automakers like Ford, VW, Stellantis are reacting to Trump’s 25% tariff

The end goal is that Trump feels powerful and in control. The triumph of the narcissist. Don't bother looking for any other meaning behind this. Divide and conquer, bully, blame, attack,...

Look at me, look at me. You are not worthy.
Oh look at me,
Look at me,
Look at me now.
I am king of a house,
I am king of a cow…
 
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benwaggoner

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True and expected. Learning to wrench (its never been easier thanks to the internet) can save buckets of money over time by taking most labor out of the equation. Refuse to be intimidated and worlds open. If you can build a PC with understanding you can choose to learn to work on vehicles. (I'm old, damaged and still enjoy it as there are so many easy ways to handle heavy items.)

There is no overall magic fix but wise, determined individuals can still do well while the world burns. DIY is enormously popular because it saves so much money and the more you do the faster you learn. If the money matters be not afraid to learn.
DIY is laudable for those who enjoy it. But the parts and equipment for all kinds of things are still going to be more expensive. Harbor Freight will be hit hard. Even stuff built in the USA will be hit by steel and aluminum tariffs. So DIY may remain relatively less expensive, but it too will be getting more expensive in absolute terms. Not even accounting for falling wages due to economic disruption.
 
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benwaggoner

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Because we have free will, we can chose to accept or reject God
Given it is the people who claim to accept God who are wrecking the economy in ignorance and spite, I hardly see what positive role a deity may be performing in this situation.

Well, Jesus was all about loving the poor, and there will be a lot more poor to love if this keeps on going...
 
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Given it is the people who claim to accept God who are wrecking the economy in ignorance and spite, I hardly see what positive role a deity may be performing in this situation.

Well, Jesus was all about loving the poor, and there will be a lot more poor to love if this keeps on going...
Did you miss my entire point that this administration is anti-Christian and not just anti-liberal because they've pulled funding form orgs like Catholic Charities that do exactly what you're demanding, love and care for the poor
 
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Love and obey me or burn isn't a choice, it's extortion.
If it's extortion it's going pretty badly given how many chose to say no in this day and age

And yes, that includes many who claim to be Christian but then fail to actually live out any Christian values. To them the warning is clear:
Matthew 7:21-23
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’

23Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’
 
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real mikeb_60

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Toyota is in an interesting bind. 4Runners are popular in the US but not actually a big seller ( ~ 100-140K per year). Those sales are dwarfed by the car division and the RAV4. It isn't as popular in Australasia as they have a couple of better options (the Prado & Ute).

Toyota went all out tech with their new engine, a turbocharged mild hybrid which gets a bit more gas mileage (25 vs. 20), more horsepower and torque (which it doesn't need) and better emissions. Oops. The engine hasn't been getting great reviews because it is noisy, underpowered and complicated.

If they just dropped the 4Runner and left everyone to fend for themselves with Tacomas (made currently in the US but Toyota was planning on moving them to oops, Mexico) it probably isn't the end of the world. I suppose they could bring the 4Runner to the US but it doesn't seem that sales would support that.

Gonna be interesting. Yeah, that's the word....
T has been making Tacomas in Mexico for a couple of decades. When the Fremont NUMMI experiment ended, they moved to a new factory near Tijuana. Long lines of trucks bringing new ones over the border daily. Tariff fodder!

Ironically, there is a railroad into Tijuana, but the vehicles aren't shipped on it (some parts and materials might be). Freight moves at night on a light rail line between San Diego and the border.
 
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altsuperego

Ars Scholae Palatinae
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Lots of people will be buying used cars to avoid the tariffs. Which means the prices for those will likely skyrocket, as well.

And people who were going to buy a new car will keep theirs longer thus depleting the used car market that never really recovered from COVID disruptions. I guess people will have to buy Teslas. The used car market is actually a very correlated indicator of the overall economy.
 
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Erbium68

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So I imagine someone has already pointed this out but the US is about a quarter of the worlds GDP. So yes the American economy is a lot compared to the rest of the world. It's over fifty percent larger than the EU. This is bad.
Well yes, but it isn't 50% larger in PPP terms, and an awful lot of that GDP is zero value added. Every bureaucrat in a hospital, every manager in an insurance company, every marketing executive, every CEO is in reality a cost centre. Musk is currently the biggest cost centre in the USA. Trump's golf is a cost centre. The military is a cost centre.
A fair comparison is things like the chart someone showed the other day of lifespan outcomes versus cost for different economies. In simplistic terms, the health value of a dollar spent in the US system is about half that of a European equivalent. Or cars - a dollar in the US buys you half as much transport value as the same dollar spent in China. Purchasing power parity is needed to account for real economic activity.

In short, the US is about a quarter of the world's GDP but nowhere near a quarter of its actual production value. Failing to understand this is the problem for Trump and the Trumpettes.
 
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FerociousLabRetriever

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I agree that VW is a better choice than BYD. I guess the better way to put it is Tesla should be treated the same as BYD. If BYD is effectively banned from Canada so should Tesla.

I'm glad to see the Canadian government is barring Tesla from using future tax credits for EV's.

I view the US as the same or worse than China. Human right abuses are true in both countries, they steal IP in both countries - Chat GPT etc. China executed Canadians for drug charges, America kept work visa holders in ICE concentration camps. I dont have high hopes that ICE wont escalate or false pretenses for invasion to copy Donalds best friend Putin's example on Ukraine takeover.

We need to diversify trading partners, to work with Europe & UK is essential or Canada will cease to exist and I can only hope that we get to keep our lives in the process. Americans are very xenophobic and I wonder if we will be given the privilege to remain in our homes or if we will be expelled as illegal aliens in the new American territory. Especially those of us that are not Aryan.

Trust has been permanently broken for me and a large swath of the Canadian population. I saw the United States as a partner. I consumed American media and high quality products. I valued the old ways of America that generally preserved Western Democracies, not threatening to rain democracy all over our cities to strip us of our resources like we are the middle east.

So, like my Canadian forefathers that fought in WW2 that didn't support fascist Nazi companies, my family will never support Tesla / Starlink under the current regime.
I agree with you. It’s a shame because Tesla had so much potential as a brand, but it’s been permanently tarnished. They would need to boot Musk and completely disavow his positions, which isn’t going to happen anytime in the next 4 years, and the brand would still be diminished.

The only bright side here is the majority of Americans are opposed to annexing Canada. Most think it’s a joke because it’s so patently absurd. Polls show just 6% think it’s a good idea, which says a lot in today’s environment. 60% are opposed to Canada joining and 30% only say if Canadians want to.

It’s all so stupid because USMCA already gives the US nearly unlimited access to Canada’s market. A leader in Denmark said the same about the Greenland BS. She was like “We already have a treaty that gives the US military access, it’s NATO territory, and the good people of Greenland would’ve been excited to welcome US investment in our already open economies”

We also see an effort in the senate to stop Tariffs on Canada by ending the faux emergency. It won’t be heard in the house, but it shows how unpopular this crap is.

My only hope at this point is that the administration is messing with the things that unites all Americans: money and the economy. No one likes to see their wealth evaporate, no one likes to see prices go up, and no one likes to lose their job. All three things are happening or in progress.
 
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FerociousLabRetriever

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Well yes, but it isn't 50% larger in PPP terms, and an awful lot of that GDP is zero value added. Every bureaucrat in a hospital, every manager in an insurance company, every marketing executive, every CEO is in reality a cost centre. Musk is currently the biggest cost centre in the USA. Trump's golf is a cost centre. The military is a cost centre.
A fair comparison is things like the chart someone showed the other day of lifespan outcomes versus cost for different economies. In simplistic terms, the health value of a dollar spent in the US system is about half that of a European equivalent. Or cars - a dollar in the US buys you half as much transport value as the same dollar spent in China. Purchasing power parity is needed to account for real economic activity.

In short, the US is about a quarter of the world's GDP but nowhere near a quarter of its actual production value. Failing to understand this is the problem for Trump and the Trumpettes.
Except China’s problem is overcapacity—it is just as vulnerable to this extremely unbalanced global economy. Make no mistake, most countries are going to put up walls to China’s exports if the US stops taking them—no one is willingly going to let China eat their lunch.

There isn’t a lot of value add in producing goods no one consumes.

In these silly trade wars, everyone loses.
 
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Erbium68

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Except China’s problem is overcapacity—it is just as vulnerable to this extremely unbalanced global economy. Make no mistake, most countries are going to put up walls to China’s exports if the US stops taking them—no one is willingly going to let China eat their lunch.

There isn’t a lot of value add in producing goods no one consumes.

In these silly trade wars, everyone loses.
China has a population of 1.4 billion of whom a rough estimate of 400 million are on the gravy train leaving a billion available for economic development. I'm not saying it is going to work, but they are actively looking for ways to create internal markets for that overcapacity. It may be impossible, but it cannot be completely ruled out.
 
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benwaggoner

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Did you miss my entire point that this administration is anti-Christian and not just anti-liberal because they've pulled funding form orgs like Catholic Charities that do exactly what you're demanding, love and care for the poor
Oh, I am agreeing with you. Nominal values are being despicably violated.
 
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cbreak

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Aurich

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I see this has quickly degenerated into a political and religious debate.
Agreed, let's talk about react thumbnails more.

1743889856483.png
 
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Ultra54

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Someone asked me if I, as a Canadian, could trust America again after Trump dies. I answered: the problem is not just Trump or even MAGA. The problem is that the Republic's constitutional checks and balances were not acted on, they were ignored or allowed to be dodged or simply disregarded, one by one by " institutionalists" who knew better. The rot is deep. How can we trust you if you don't ACTUALLY respect The Constitution you ballyhoo about so loudly?
 
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Chuckstar

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I have read it for 10 years now. It has turned into a bunch of whiners. I hardly read it anymore. It's lost its authentic science feel and turned into a place for people to complain. Too bad. Ars - maybe you can flag any unconstructive comments and let us filter out them out by choice. That I'd pay a subscription fee for.
Wow… the irony…
 
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LeftCoastRusty

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Because we know that is not the answer.
Asia is going to rise and the more you try to stop it the harder it will try. Look at what happened when the USA tried to keep down Japan in the 1930s. And now it is all of southern and eastern Asia.

What are the Chinese telling other countries? That Trump breaks treaties, boasts that he will settle conflicts, and then threatens to invade and conquer whole countries. And that China will never do that but will defend the interests of the countries with whom it does business. Pax sineniensis.
The former allies of the USA are naturally going to sit on the fence as much as possible and see how it pans out, but in the meantime more and more UK schools are teaching Mandarin, for starters.
China will never do that…hmmmm. Have you asked Taiwan about that?
 
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China will never do that…hmmmm. Have you asked Taiwan about that?
Exactly. If they can get their act together this is honestly Europes chance to assert themselves for the first time since WWII. Cuddling up to a dictator like Xi would just be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire, they have a real chance to forge a new European identity and for self independence here if they can stop falling over themselves and seize it
 
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Erbium68

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Which good? Myrkul? Baal? Mystra? Shar? Tyr? Lolth? Jergal? Elistraee?
Ba'al is merely one of the Elohim, which included also Rimmon, Tetragrammatron, and a few goddesses. The ancient Hebrews didn't believe in one God, they believed that their tribal god was specially looking after them. Moses from Egypt tried to impose monotheism - and they kept fighting wars over it, right down to most of the tribes of Israel absconding, and the rule of the Omrids.
The problem with theology is that the more of it you learn, the less you believe it.
 
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Erbium68

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China will never do that…hmmmm. Have you asked Taiwan about that?
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. None of the other countries China is schmoozing are expecting to be annexed by China - and many of them regard the Chinese claim on Taiwan as legitimate anyway.
 
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Erbium68

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Nepal is now cozying up to the dragon. Let's see if it gets eaten.
Why would China bother? So long as it doesn't rock any boats - which it is too small to do anyway - what would be the point?

Tibet was different. I have a book written by a pair of French explorers who visited Tibet around the time of WW2. They were appalled by the theocracy and lawlessness and noted that the ordinary people welcomed the Chinese who restored order. The reality of Tibetan Buddhism versus the Western fantasy version is deeply unpleasant - and I say that as a student of Zen.
The productions of Tibetan culture don't reflect the reality, any more than Western art reflects the actual social conditions of ordinary people. And while the present Dalai Lama is an OK and Westernised one, that isn't so of the past.
 
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I don't think even those of us who are extremely pessimistic understand how likely this is to severely harm not just the domestic, but also the global, economy, and how many large employers are likely to fold in the next few years. My wife is an economist by training, and last night she just said "yeah, this is probably the worst-case scenario. Or worse than that." She fully expects this to cause a recession, probably on par with 2008, and rampant stagflation.
It's definitely worse. In past recessions, there's always been the option to take refuge in US Treasury Bonds, but that organization has been compromised now, on top of the regular looming threat of the US defaulting on it's debt being particularly credible right now.
 
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real mikeb_60

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It's definitely worse. In past recessions, there's always been the option to take refuge in US Treasury Bonds, but that organization has been compromised now, on top of the regular looming threat of the US defaulting on it's debt being particularly credible right now.
Considering that Our Leader has also led serial business bankruptcies (somehow coming out ahead each time), that last point about the bonds should be emphasized. Rumor has it that China is selling from their stash, or at least not rolling them over any more; probably appropriate considering the situation.
 
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Considering that Our Leader has also led serial business bankruptcies (somehow coming out ahead each time), that last point about the bonds should be emphasized. Rumor has it that China is selling from their stash, or at least not rolling them over any more; probably appropriate considering the situation.
That also gives them a great big war chest to support their population as the trade war spirals out of control. We don't have any equivalent, precisely because of the deficit spending and trade imbalances we've been allowing for so long. All we can do is print money, as opposed to selling actual assets and trading them for necessities.

Both forms of deficit were bad and needed fixing, and that foolishness is at the core of why China is so strong and we're so weak, but those are things you have to do slowly. Trump's approach is insane.
 
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