The House decides to make life difficult for online gamblers, passing a ban on all online gambling in the US. <BR><BR> Story
House approves online gambling ban
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There are always ways around prohibitions like that, but the legislation will likely have the desired effect on casual gamblers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>seems like a good idea, pass legislation that only really affects those playing casually and does nothing about those who might be a problem.<BR><BR>additionally, I'm glad they are wasting everyones time on issues like this, really...
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Ahahahahahaha! That works just fine by me. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif --<br><br>Like a great many other stupid practices people engage in, and behaviours they exhibit, I never had any respect for the "appeals" of gambling (nor those that waste their lives in pursuit of them).<br><br>The pointless head games, that whole lost cause thing, and the waste of time, money, and other resources? Yeah... dignified, purposeful pursuits, to be sure...
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......and the home of the free.<BR><BR>Thought the USA was a debauched anything goes house of sin?<BR><BR>Edited to reflect on the fact that I see the problem. "foreigners are getting their monies"<BR>wonder if there would be laws suggested if prOn was predominately off-shore?
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">passing a ban on all online gambling in the US </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>...until they figure out how to tax it?<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Thought the USA was a debauched anything goes house of sin? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR><BR>That was before Lincoln was shot.<BR><BR><BR>Ahhh, the good old days!<BR><BR>[EDITed to increase stoopidity]
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I see it as a sort of a sour-grapes legislation, if the states can't make money from online gambling, then we'll make it illegal (hense online horse racing and lotteries are exempted). To me, online gambling should be as illegal as investing in foreign stock markets.<BR><BR>Also, I like the how some of the represtatives whipped out their 'it can cause people to lose all their money' and 'children can play it' trump card arguments... geeze, what ever happened personal responsibility?
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a) this is utterly retarded.<BR>b) I thought "gambling" sites are not really gambling sites? At least, that's what I see for all the online poker commercials. My guess is that even if this law passes, nothing will change and politicians will have, once again, wasted everyone's time and money.
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I was looking at the critics of this legislation the other day and since I live in a gambling mecca, the "children might use it" seems like a bullshit answer about gambling. At a very young age I was exposed to gambling (in casinos, even at McCarran Airport (LAS)). I'm not some addict. I turned out just fine. Mostly. <BR><BR>Anyways, yea, "wont someone please think of the children" could also be used to ban just about anything else bad. <BR><BR>Nevada actually has online sports betting legalized (Station Casinos I believe does it) you have to have a cable modem with the local cable company (so they know you're physically in Las Vegas), but you can place sports bets (all kinds) from your computer at home. I'd link you to it, but googling for anything involving "betting" is plagued with result spam.
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It seems like every credit card I've ever had has a clause in the ToS that the card cannot be used for online gambling. Is this not a common practice? If it is, what is the legislation accomplishing?
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. Todd:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">passing a ban on all online gambling in the US </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>...until they figure out how to tax it?<BR> </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Exactly.<BR><BR>The .gov has no problems contributing to the "evils" of gambling so long as they are the only game in town. You only need to look at all the advertising( heavier in poorer communities, of course ) that states put into their lottery programs.<BR><BR>America's bounty is not it's fabled bread basket, it's an overflowing crock of shit.
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What about online horse betting or online lottery tickets?<BR><BR>Edit: Just in case people didn't notice that horse racing and the lottery are still ok, they got exemptions in the bill. Must have paid more $ to our congressmen.
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Let's see. Out of all of this country's pressing issues the House could be dealing with including Iraq, Social Security, the budget deficit, North Korea & Iran's nuclear programs, lack of health insurance for millions of US citizens, the environment, dependence on foreign oil, etc. our fine Congressmen decided to spend their valuable time putting together a bill to ban online gambling. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif --<br><br>Our country is doomed...
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<blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by meldroc:<br>Let's see. Out of all of this country's pressing issues the House could be dealing with including Iraq, Social Security, the budget deficit, North Korea & Iran's nuclear programs, lack of health insurance for millions of US citizens, the environment, dependence on foreign oil, etc. our fine Congressmen decided to spend their valuable time putting together a bill to ban online gambling. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif --<br><br>Our country is doomed... </div>
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<br><br>And gay marriage, flag burning, violent video games, etc. <br><br>They're really pulling out all the stops this election year.
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by meldroc:<br>Let's see. Out of all of this country's pressing issues the House could be dealing with including Iraq, Social Security, the budget deficit, North Korea & Iran's nuclear programs, lack of health insurance for millions of US citizens, the environment, dependence on foreign oil, etc. our fine Congressmen decided to spend their valuable time putting together a bill to ban online gambling. -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif --<br><br>Our country is doomed... </div>
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<br><br>And gay marriage, flag burning, violent video games, etc. <br><br>They're really pulling out all the stops this election year.
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I doubt that this will really make a difference. Offshore gambling operations can open up a new front corporation every day and there isn't anything the credit card companies can do except shut off access to them as they are discovered. This will be a hassle for the sites, true, but I think they're making enough profit to deal with it. The only serious affect I see it having is further undermining consumer confidence in the already shady sites; people aren't going to put their money in unless they're sure they'll get their winnings back.
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Bah, it'll just end up like Pachinko in Japan. You don't gamble for money, you gamble for "points", or "prizes" or whatever.<BR><BR>These points and/or prizes can be conveniently exchanged for cash money at a nearby, completely unaffiliated business, that will incidentally also take your cash in exchange for the markers necessary to play the game in the first place.<BR><BR>This is a complete coincidence. Nothing to see here, move along.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theseum:<BR> people aren't going to put their money in unless they're sure they'll get their winnings back. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Yeah, those aren't the type of people that would take a gamble with their money.<BR><BR>Sorry.<BR><BR>Seriously, though, do you all fight for gambling to be legal everywhere in the US? I have been unaware of any giant movements to this effect, or that most people actually cared. I was actually under the impression that most people didn't give a @#$%. So why would you start caring when it came to the online part?<BR><BR>As far as taxing it... First, let me say that I'm not a big fan of government run things. If the local Liquor & Wine has taught me anything, it's that the goverment doesn't run a good business. But, as far as gambling, I wouldn't mind if the government controlled it all, and took in all the rake. I mean, as long as people are going to lose their money, it might as well be to someone that might invest a small amount of it into education, which might in turn reduce gambling.<BR><BR>Oh, and gambling can be fun and entertaining. And if done properly, doesn't have to cost more than a lot of other forms of entertainment. Unfortunately, that requires setting limits and having self restraint, so it's not for the masses.
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<blockquote class="ip-ubbcode-quote">
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Unfortunately, that requires setting limits and having self restraint, so it's not for the masses. </div>
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<br><br>You, sir, have milked my nose!<br><br> -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif --
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div>
<div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Unfortunately, that requires setting limits and having self restraint, so it's not for the masses. </div>
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<br><br>You, sir, have milked my nose!<br><br> -- View image here: http://episteme.meincmagazine.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif --
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Unfortunately, that requires setting limits and having self restraint, so it's not for the masses. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Isn't that true for all paid entertainment?
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mendes:<BR>Like a great many other stupid practices people engage in, and behaviours they exhibit, I never had any respect for the "appeals" of gambling (nor those that waste their lives in pursuit of them).<BR><BR>The pointless head games, that whole lost cause thing, and the waste of time, money, and other resources? Yeah... dignified, purposeful pursuits, to be sure... </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>From what I understand, you go assuming you're going to lose every last dollar you allocated to gamble, but have a blast losing the money.<BR><BR>Online gambling, on the other hand, doesn't really make sense to me.<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doormat:<BR>And gay marriage, flag burning, violent video games, etc. <BR><BR>They're really pulling out all the stops this election year. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Go go cargo cult legislation! Because if we make X illegal, all our problems suddenly go away!
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it is the Old Story in the United States, something which has even been the theme of Broadway shows and movies, that when desperate politicians want to attract support, monies, and votes, they identify something which can be sold as a vice and attack it. <BR><BR>what is really sad is that the public are ignorant enough of history or of political machinations to fall for this. i'm sure many sucuumbed to the righteous laments of the Women's Christian Temperance Union, too, imbibing a sip here and there, of course, when noone was looking.
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Online Gampbling is ALREADY illegal in the US, it's just hard to enforce, so it isn't enforced.<BR><BR>This is an attempt to give authorities a way to enforce the existing policy.<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">b) I thought "gambling" sites are not really gambling sites? At least, that's what I see for all the online poker commercials. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>the reason why the .net site are advertised is that not only is online gambling illegal, advertising it is also illegal. so they advertise the .net version of the site, where no gambling occurs. Only 'Practice'.<BR><BR>then everyone gets confused, types in .com, and money is wasted.<BR><BR><BR>http://meincmagazine.com/news.ars/post/20060217-6204.html
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I'm really beginning to wish the people can propose and put to a direct vote rules for which congress men and women must follow. I'd be the first to propose "no trying to legsliate the internt or technology" bill, because they always try, and it NEVER works even remotely as intended.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Like a great many other stupid practices people engage in, and behaviours they exhibit, I never had any respect for the "appeals" of gambling (nor those that waste their lives in pursuit of them). </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Do you do anything for fun or is your whole life spent in meaningful, productive behaviour? Playing poker is fun and (for those with sufficient discipline and training) quite profitable. I assume that you can see the appeal of paid leisure time?<BR><BR>edit: Hey House of Reps! I'll trade online gambling and violent video games for sane drug policy and universal healthcare. Please?
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Falcor:<BR>edit: Hey House of Reps! I'll trade online gambling and violent video games for sane drug policy and universal healthcare. Please? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> You'll get nothing and like it, <STRIKE>citi</STRIKE>consumer.
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Gambling is addictive and useless. Not to mention that the people who provide the services are borderline criminals.<BR><BR>In short, screw gambling, I'm glad its illegal. If you think this isn't a big deal you're a fucking moron. Gambling sites are making billions hand over fist off the American public, and every cent is utterly wasted.<BR><BR>Gambling hasn't suddenly become illegal. You can still head on over to Vegas and drop money like there's no tomorrow. I don't see what the big deal is...
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Anything in excess can be a poison. An overindulgence of gambling can very well be evil as it can cause serious negative repercussions in people's lives. But this could also be said for alcohol, video games or even eating. But should a government intercede and limit/ban these activities under the banner of protectionism?<BR><BR>Gambling in moderation can be an enjoyable and relatively cheap form of entertainment. For instance, many strategies in poker rely upon the players being forced to honestly represent their cards, which generally requires that real money be at stake. A decent poker player can play a cash game of poker risking cash swings of only +/- $5/hour. Thus, while internet gambling has inherent risks, I feel that it can be done in moderation and does not need to be outlawed by the government entirely.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chugg:<BR>This, is weird.<BR><BR>I dont remember moving to china... </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No no, China moved to You!
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by byosys:<BR>I'm really beginning to wish the people can propose and put to a direct vote rules for which congress men and women must follow. I'd be the first to propose "no trying to legsliate the internt or technology" bill, because they always try, and it NEVER works even remotely as intended. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Or how about being able to get a recall election for a congressman/woman or president if we get enough signatures... like in Cali? (Please no Gary Coleman Jokes)
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There are always ways around prohibitions like that, but the legislation will likely have the desired effect on casual gamblers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>If the desired effect is to further disillusion and irritate the American populace, and to turn even traditional conservatives against the Republican party, then yes, I'll concur with this statement.<BR><BR>For an election year grandstand, this sure seems poorly calculated. Knee jerk democrats, who would generally support this kind of thing, have swapped "states rights" positions with republicans. Republicans and democrats alike have become cynical about politicians' motives, and see this kind of thing as a waste of time when there's a war going on.<BR><BR>On the whole, this seems ripe for backfire. Senators, who tend to be wiser than Representatives, will let it die rather than painting targets on themselves. The morally righteous will shake their heads, but the realists and moderates in both parties will find the whole exercise wasteful and stupid.<BR><BR>That's my prediction, at least.<BR><BR>-b
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> <BR>Gambling is addictive and useless. Not to mention that the people who provide the services are borderline criminals.<BR><BR>In short, screw gambling, I'm glad its illegal. If you think this isn't a big deal you're a fucking moron. Gambling sites are making billions hand over fist off the American public, and every cent is utterly wasted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>It's run by criminals partially because it's illegal. They should just legalize it and institute a rake to help pay for universal health care. Such a plan would also potentially allow for much more effective interventions to help addicts before they ruin their lives. It could also help limit underage gambling. <BR><BR>Still, I think you touched on something important. The gov is pissed that they're not getting their cut, but they don't want to risk looking soft on morally degenerate behavior so they won't just legalize/regulate. It's like the War on Drugs all over again.
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The thing is that the types of gambling banned by this bill and most other anti-gambling laws prohibit games like Player-Player Poker which is actually a fair game since the house only takes a small rake from each hand and the play is mostly based on skill. What isn't banned are things like Slot Machines, Horse Racing and state lotteries which have a much higher take for the house. Where I live, the only gambling is state lottery and horse racing and they keep trying to get slot machines, but only at racetracks, meanwhile having my friends over for a poker game is technically illegal. <BR><BR>Why is it that when a guy loses $200 at slots at some billionaire's racetrack or casino or bets $200 on a horse or blows $200 on lottery tickets, that somehow helps society, but when he loses $200 to his buddies at a poker game its the devils work? I am fairly sure it must be I who is crazy because I see much the same "logic" with drug prohibition, THC is illegal and in some states jailable for small amounts yet Rush Limbaugh can get caught with a bunch of unprescribed pharmacy opiates which in some countries is punishable by death, and nothing much happens to him no matter how many times he is caught.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oblib__:<BR>It seems like every credit card I've ever had has a clause in the ToS that the card cannot be used for online gambling. Is this not a common practice? If it is, what is the legislation accomplishing? </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>First of all, shame on ars for the misleading headline. I know this site leans anti-conservative, but the headline in question is just pandering. It's not a ban on all online gambling. You can still log on to partypoker or wherever and gamble away if you want.<BR><BR>This legislation is mostly hollow and a toothless waste of time, however. Because as you point out (heard this very point discussed on NPR yesterday afternoon as well), all credit cards/banks and most payment services strictly forbid their use to pay for online gambling anyways.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Falcor:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> <BR>Gambling is addictive and useless. Not to mention that the people who provide the services are borderline criminals.<BR><BR>In short, screw gambling, I'm glad its illegal. If you think this isn't a big deal you're a fucking moron. Gambling sites are making billions hand over fist off the American public, and every cent is utterly wasted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>It's run by criminals partially because it's illegal. They should just legalize it and institute a rake to help pay for universal health care. Such a plan would also potentially allow for much more effective interventions to help addicts before they ruin their lives. It could also help limit underage gambling. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Quite, in the UK you'll find online (as well as offline of course) gambling companies operated by major publicly quoted companies - on the whole, they would take a dim view of being called criminals. Look up London S.E. ticker codes UK:LAD, UK:WMH, UK:UKB for just three examples.<BR><BR>The regulations in the UK are in the process of being overhauled, but in an exceedingly rare moment of clarity the government realised that the way to keep the gambling industry clean and responsible is to make it *legal* but well regulated.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ai0tron:<BR>Gambling is addictive and useless. Not to mention that the people who provide the services are borderline criminals.<BR><BR>In short, screw gambling, I'm glad its illegal. If you think this isn't a big deal you're a fucking moron. Gambling sites are making billions hand over fist off the American public, and every cent is utterly wasted.<BR><BR>Gambling hasn't suddenly become illegal. You can still head on over to Vegas and drop money like there's no tomorrow. I don't see what the big deal is... </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I don't like gambling, online or off, and never really gamble at all because I think it's a waste of money. But many corporations that have nothing to do with gambling are making billions off the American public, not least of which are certain companies profiting directly from the war in Iraq, which in my mind is a far more callous situation. Why do we single out gambling companies as being instrinsicly guilty of something simply because they are making money off of people who freely choose to give them their money? <BR><BR>I find people with attitudes like yours far more dangerous to our society than any form of gambling. The whole concept of America is to grant individual civil liberty to every citizen. People like yourself seem to have no problem stripping people of the liberty to make choices about what to do with their own lives if it serves some arbitrarily-defined greater good. And that greater good is usually determined, incidently, by people like yourself. I'd rather deal with a society of gambling addicts than a society of neo-fascists determining what is and is not good for us and self-righteously stripping the citizenry of more and more liberty because it smugly assumes that we're all a bunch of children that can't take care of ourselves. I guess that makes me a "fucking moron" though, so you'll probably just ignore what I say and go on about your day not caring about the fact that you would have no problem depriving people of their freedoms if you thought it was for their own good. Zig Heil!
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So what counts as gambling anyway? Does this mean my online fantasy football league is now illegal?<BR><BR>Rob Nelson<BR>rnelson0@gmail.com
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